EPTTerrans Have Highest Skill Ceiling - Page 8
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
I sincerely doubt that the expansions won't include extra units for multiplayer, or at least some new synergies/upgrades/mechanics. | ||
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PepperoniPiZZa
Sierra Leone1660 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.dangerousminds.net/images/uploads/1269385664419_thumb.jpeg) User was warned for this post | ||
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TrzystaDrzew
Poland72 Posts
That's why MULEs, which were not created for the purpose of Repairing Thors (when have we seen/heard Blizzard talk about this?), can do so. Natural synergy of existing mechanics. I refuse to agree with this. Do you really think they gave mule repair ability without idea of rep-drop function? I think you underestimate Blizz. What is more an argument "they did not tell about it" is kinda desperate move. No offense. | ||
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SamuraiJJ
Taiwan22 Posts
In Sc2 Terran is a formation race where you need to get your unit in a perfect line-up Zerg feature is dynamic- fast tech - fast production Protoss feature is strong but ex Now they are putting dynamic factor into toss and esp Terran. Take a good look at the 2 barrack marine rush all in with scv against Zerg. It is totally disgusting. Now every races feature seem to have combined together. The game seriously dry fast if the company still does not do anything about it | ||
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
For zerg, we have a small thing that I believe will be very important later on. Broodlings. They spawn when your buildings die. I just saw a game where a zerg lost to a terran who attacked his evolution chamber until it had 1 hp. If he had killed his own evolution chamber with a drone, the broodlings might have been enough to help hold off the attack. We've also seen broodlings on the offense. Proxy evolution chambers acting as time bombs off creep. Who knows how else they'll end up being used. And creep isn't as one-dimensional as you make it seem. Not only does it speed your units up, but it also allows you to build, and prevents your opponent from building. You could load up a queen in an overlord and drop on expansions all over the map and lay creep tumors, forcing terrans to use scans just to expand. For protoss we have the warp prism. Everyone says it's underused, sure. But I don't mean for drops. Did you realize the warp prism also powers buildings? There just hasn't been enough creative usage of warp prisms powering buildings, whether that be for proxy buildings, cannon rushes, or what have you. It's got a lot of potential. And it only costs the price of 2 pylons, it's like having a pylon that can move around. Imagine loading a probe into a warp prism and proxying a stargate on an island somewhere. There's also the graviton beam which most people don't realize also works on your own units. It's like a pseudo-stasis. There are still plenty of things left to explore for all of the races. | ||
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yrag89
Malaysia315 Posts
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Railxp
Hong Kong1313 Posts
On top of that, if you're arguing that terran has more synergistic units that allow for more viable unit combinations, couldn't that be used also to counter the point you are making? Terrans have it easy because they can make whatever they want and it will fit well, whereas other races have to think very carefully in order to carve out a viable build. So the other races require more skill to play. I do not agree with the premise of this argument, but it seems to me that you can argue both sides from it. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
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pigscanfly
Singapore147 Posts
2. medivac/infantry and scv repairs= queen/anything = forcefield runaway and recharge your shields = ways to regenerate your units health. (i know the protoss case is a bit of a stretch, you can clearly see how the shield regen mechanic works in any basic micro) 3. scans = spreading creep tumour vision/changelings= hallucinate= ways to gain scouting information 4. planetary fortresses = moving spinecrawlers = protoss ability to warp in 5 cannons at a go without sacrificing more than one probe to build = easy way to defend expansions It's disingenuous to claim that terran has so much more versatility than the other races. There are many things you haven't mentioned. i.e. warp in, which isn't as static as you make it out to be. Sure, you can say there are only so many ways to warp in units, but it gives protoss a flexibility on offence and defence that can be hard for the other races to match. It also means gateways can be placed anywhere to form any kind of wall in since once you get warp gate up (which is always pretty damn early) it doesn't matter where you've placed the gateways. Looking at another way, Terran is not versatile enough since once you get to their unit production structures, you can pick off units one by one as they come out of the barracks. Bunkers aren't versatile because they can't move, unlike spine crawlers. They require infantry units in them, which require supply, which caps the amount of defensive structures you can build = cap on versatility. Terran structures burn down. They don't auto repair like zerg structures or regenerate shields like protoss buildings = lack of versatility, since you have to have a scv ready to repair them. Terran addons= as much a liability as versatility as they are low-hp, and once picked off you can't produce any high-tier units. The races ARE different and are meant to be different. It's like comparing clouds and teddy bears. | ||
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bobcat
United States488 Posts
On November 29 2010 15:56 keV. wrote: I don't understand that comment at all. Controlling a bio ball with medivacs is vastly easier than any other similar tiered composition. You're not alone. It depends on what the OP means by micro, he could be using an innapropriate word again. As far as micro goes, every race gets a lot out of it. Terrans have to stim kite and often are using drop play in a micro heavy way. Thor timing pushes also require a bit of micro. Protoss players must constantly micro positioning. Keep the zealots in front. Split up the templar, make sure you keep them close enough to insta-storm. Keep the obs in front and looking for cloaked ghosts. Feedback ghosts before you get into emp range. Keep colossi within attack range but outside of range of an easy kill for your opponent. When and where to blink stalkers. Immortal micro, dropping forcefields appropriately, moving sentries for propper guardian shield coverage, phoenix worker harass and siege tank lifting, warp prism drops, manually charging a group of marauders to ensure a surround to prevent them stim concussive shelling away. Ok... so I play protoss. But I still think we can argue that both races are micro intensive. I would argue that protoss need to have good micro in order to get most of the value of many of their units out. Similarly for zerg. I would almost ALMOST argue that terrans tend to be the "set it and forget it" race. But I know better. | ||
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AidanS
39 Posts
Someone responded that Zerg have quantity, toss have quality and terran have versitility. This may have been the goal but it isn't the reality. Terran have the quality units and the versitility. Marines and marauders are the best early units by some distance once stim is up. Banshees are hundreds of times better than DTs. Vikings rule the air with marine support because of their siege range. BCs are probably the strongest single unit in the game with Yammato cannon if you are looking at a quality in a lone unit. Even zerg don't have to follow the pattern if they don't want to. They have expensive, quality units available to them late game in the broodlord and ultra. Protoss 4 warp gate is the opposite of what they are supposed to be too. It's a build that produces a high volume of crappy units at an early point in the game. 4warp gate just throws wave after wave of garbage units at you in a zerg like manner till you break. Certainly protoss have expensive units but the only quality ones are the collossus and HT. Excluding the costs in teching to it (which are massive) the HT is kinda cheap as well for a caster which again doesn't follow the traditional race makeup. The traditional race roles don't seem to exist in SC2 in any individual match. Zerg can win with high cost units late game, protoss with high numbers of low quality ones early and terran can certainly win with single unit type compositions ignoring their races versitility altogether. | ||
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lowercase
Canada1047 Posts
The repair points were really quite good also. Would anybody else like to see repair work on a logarithmic scale rather than a linear one? For example: 1 SCV repairing: 1 hp / sec 2 SCVs repairing: 1.9 hp/sec 3 SCVs repairing: 2.7 hp/sec 4 SCVs repairing: 3.4 hp/sec 5 SCVs repairing: 4.0 hp/sec etc. The numbers are arbitrary. I would just like to see each additional repairing SCV contribute slightly less as the numbers increase. I've always thought repair was imba. | ||
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dotamaster
104 Posts
Boxer (Emperor) - memorable Terran plays in SC:BW | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
One thing to remember tho, fun and versatile doesn't mean better. | ||
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resilve
United Kingdom678 Posts
It comes down to your definition of 'skill ceiling'. Zerg is so much more intensive to make work, there is so much more inbuilt knowledge and 'feeling' involved in balancing army and economy, and covering all the harrassment options of terran. To me, a zerg who knows exactly how and when to drone is the unteachable 'skill' that is the highest ceiling, knowing how and when to drop a spinecrawler or has the mechanics (and APM) to multi-task overlord placement, creep, injects and unit control. If you play zerg for the macro - which I would guess most like to - you need so much experience and knowledge that cannot be taught per se. Therefore zerg is the race, for me, that the best player will do 'most well' with - i.e has the biggest skill ceiling. | ||
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iSiN
United States1075 Posts
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bobcat
United States488 Posts
On November 29 2010 21:27 ShadowIord wrote: So... Zerg do not spam lings/Blings and toss do not spam leglots/stalkers... isnt it? To OP "A Planetary Fortress is a powerful defensive tool… only thing is, combined with the Command Center’s ability to fly and its ability to carry SCVs, it can even be used offensively in the early game." line. No PF cant fly an if i do not remember bad, neither PF or OC, can carry SCVs. and PF rush do not work vs a good player. I think NettleS' point was that all the way into the late game T players are relying almost entirely on their Teir 1 units with some tier 3 support. I do not think this is the way blizzard intended the game to be played, but they still have a lot of work to do. Ideally, (and this is theory here) they would want terrans to have marines and marauders supporting thors and siege tanks and such units as additionaly firepower rather than mass bio ball being used to take on tier 3 units. This doesnt mean you wouldn't have a large number of marines/marauders, but rather than you would be forced to make some more tier 3 units rather than just pumping off of 8 raxes. Yes protoss make zealots and zerg make ling/bling, but we dont spam them. We would lose big time if we did. Ideally, the same concept of low tier units losing effect over time should apply to terrans as well. But because of the OP's "Unit Synergy" you are allowed to keep making bio for the entire game up until a protoss gets templar AND colossi, or a zerg player can get fungal/bling. | ||
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Larrie
United Kingdom46 Posts
Really? I mean are you REALLY going to try and pass this bull shit off? | ||
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gnutz
Germany666 Posts
Even that some Terran Units have more Quality than Protoss Units (at least in cost-effectiveness) makes the game never gonna be balanced perfectly before the next add-on. Terran has so much potential: HSM, BCs, Medivac Energy, Bunker Placement Upgrade are not at all built/upgraded nowadays. Say that Zergs or Protosses, who mostly need their upgrades to stay alive ... or even have some units where upgrading isn't worth it at all (paperplane speed lol) Imo it should be: Terran has so much versatility, so they Need to be creative to win. But: they don't need that at all. MMM is powerful since day1 of the beta until now, The most Terrans don't even play mech, but i think it is way more powerful than MMM only. What some people mention: I too think, that Zerg has the highest possible skill ceiling in terms of mechanics. But that is not the point of the OP. | ||
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