EPTSC2 Ladder Analysis: Division Tiers - Page 22
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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Emperor_Earth
United States824 Posts
On December 01 2010 20:52 Inori wrote: Not gonna waste time for the quotes, so I'll just write as I read. System aim is to have me in a division with more or less equally skilled players. I'm not good I know, but if I can get to top350 of US and I'm #70 in my division, this means one of the two things: 1.) My divsion is S-classed, stacked with very skilled players and amongst them I'm #70. 2.) System is failing. Since my division isn't S-class, it's 2. Activity != skill, yes. But the higher the person is ranked the more chances are that he's skilled. I pulled #1 in 90% out of thin air, yes, but I'm quite sure that in 18k diamond divisions in europe, there's a lot where 2k rated player is in at least top5. Yeah, sorry, I wasn't accurate. Actually top10 in my division is 2622+. People in top200 shift a lot. Last I checked I saw somebody at #15 from my div in EU top200, so I assumed it stayed that way. Now I rechecked, it's actually top10 and I changed that. Doesn't really change the fact that if top10 of a division is in EU top200, it's stacked. I think we've come to an understanding that was long delayed by my hostility towards my incorrect perception of an ignorant air of superiority from you. I thought you were saying something you weren't and was arguing with your imaginary diabolical twin. Regarding that quote by quote post, I started it before you posted your other bits just as you may have posted your reply before realizing there was another reply... and I left that aggression standing to show my stance at that time. Prior posts don't necessarily reflect my current disposition, I just won't try to erase tracks cause I made a mistake. I'll leave further debate along this line to PM form to not derail this thread any further. | ||
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hephaestos
France54 Posts
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Emperor_Earth
United States824 Posts
On December 01 2010 21:11 hephaestos wrote: I don't see how you can say that the problem is the rank of the divisions Inori. Would you be in a S-rank division, you would still be far from the top200 (800 or so using the EU master league tool) and you are 1023th with the 126 points removed due to you division being B-rank. How can you tell that this difference in rank is undue, only from your experience on NA ladder ? Sure, the gap seems big with you being 350th on NA, but it is still big when you consider you are S-rank. Is there some way to see how many EU players there are compared to NA? With 700 mill in EU in 2000 and 300 in US in 2000, I'd imagine there are about 1.8x ppl in EU than USA. Does this ratio hold in the SC2 world? If so, then ~700 rank in EU ~= 350 rank in NA. This would support the idea that EU > NA in skill. Also, what division are the newest players in the 1000-1100 range mostly get placed into? I suspect it'll be S/A Diamond Divisions. *** The idea is that raw #s don't matter as much as %'s imo. | ||
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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Emperor_Earth
United States824 Posts
On December 01 2010 21:28 Inori wrote:Total: 2,197,913, Russia: 75,991, Taiwan: 124,735, SE Asia: 104,806, Europe: 630,850, Korea: 381,713, NA: 843,080, Latin America: 36,738 Wow^^ I have no way to back you up on this. Sorry buddy. | ||
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Lalgee
United Kingdom65 Posts
On December 01 2010 08:05 Excalibur_Z wrote: Going back in LoCo (#200)'s history, it looks like he had 2719 points at the time of the snapshot. He's in Char Xi which is a +252 division, putting his adjusted rating at 2467. If SypherFeast had 2835 at the time of the snapshot (which I don't think he did, he's gained at least 70 points since yesterday but the time of the EU snapshot is not known), then he's probably in a +315 or +378 division. I don't see any evidence of an 8th tier. No, he hadn't played in a while. He had like 60 bonus points, played last night and is now at 2925 points. Like top 10 in EU on points? lol | ||
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SDream
Brazil896 Posts
The top 200 1v1 players are determined across divisions by comparing their relative rankings and skill, while meeting certain requirements, such as ensuring that they're active. These requirements are probably the reason for some people that should be in TOP 200 (applying our math) not being there. After some thought I only have 1 valid requirement in mind: a MMR greater than X. I hope that next monday we can confirm that there are people that "should" be there but isn't, then I will be pretty sure that MMR > X is a requirement. X might be: 1) The Y best MMR (200? 400?). So Blizzard only sort them by points. 2) The Z% best MMR. (1%? 5%?) 3) A static number, like 2000 MMR. ----------------- Using the MMR to make an inicial cut would make sense in a "TOP 200" point of view. Also, the "ensuring that they're active" part could simple be the points. If you don't play, your MMR won't decrease, but you won't spend your bonus points, nor gain more points, so you'll decrease in a competitive server. | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12235 Posts
On December 01 2010 19:35 Emperor_Earth wrote: Ooh, never thought of that. Let's ask Excalibur Z. :D Rephrase of shannn's question: Does your new rating immediately post-promotion get affected by the division modifier? I would have to guess that it does. I mean, it would have to. | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12235 Posts
On December 02 2010 02:35 Lalgee wrote: No, he hadn't played in a while. He had like 60 bonus points, played last night and is now at 2925 points. Like top 10 in EU on points? lol That's not what I was seeing yesterday. SypherFeast had anywhere from 2835 to 2760 points at the time of the snapshot. That means the difference between him and the adjusted rating of LoCo was between 293 and 368 (maybe as high as 378 due to a math error?). Certainly not 441 which would be the next tier. | ||
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ZerG~LegenD
Sweden1179 Posts
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Antoine
United States7481 Posts
http://www.playxp.com/sc2/news/view.php?article_id=2394241 | ||
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s.a.y
Croatia3840 Posts
On December 02 2010 04:02 Antoine wrote: ExcaliburZ your OP was translated into Korean and posted in a newspost over on playxp: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/news/view.php?article_id=2394241 That's so awesome  | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12235 Posts
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Dino_Toss
Canada13 Posts
im 2200 in a bad division tho. its not listed but id say its probably like +189. does this mean im only about as good as a 2000 person in medivac mu? this doesnt make sesne since i play 2200 level people in A,B,C and S class divisions | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
On December 02 2010 04:37 Dino_Toss wrote: question im 2200 in a bad division tho. its not listed but id say its probably like +189. does this mean im only about as good as a 2000 person in medivac mu? this doesnt make sesne since i play 2200 level people in A,B,C and S class divisions Beeing "as good as" would be a rough definition of the MMR, and since MMR has nothing to do with points, no, that doesn't means anything. Also, theorically, the more you play ladder the more points you get, but you don't necessarily become "worse" by not playing ladder. And the opposite is true. | ||
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Dino_Toss
Canada13 Posts
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SDream
Brazil896 Posts
As there is a MMR cut for bronze / silver/ gold / platinun / diamond, there'll probably be another MMR cut for master then grand master league, so you can't calculate it by points. MMR still exists and still plays a role for telling who's better than who in a way. Right now, it is in leagues, and master and grand master will be new leagues... so... | ||
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Dino_Toss
Canada13 Posts
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Jonas :)
United States511 Posts
People that are promoted to diamond division are just learning how to play the game at a reasonably high level. Regardless of whatever super crazy algorithm you think that blizzard has to put better players in better divisions, your hypothesis (and blizzard's algorithm) have no way of taking into account the ability of the players in each division to learn and improve over time relative to each other. Statistically if you put 100 players at random into a divison and compare the rate of improvement of the players in this divison with another division they should be pretty close to each other. But, you might say, why are there so many good players in some divisons such as medivac alamo or medic mu? Well those are just the players that were able to demonstrate their ability to play at the diamond level to the blizzard matchmaking service the quickest and were correspondingly put in diamond league at about the same time. This means that many good players ended up in the same division. Here is where your mistake is: unless the blizzard matchmaking service is designed to give the players in these divisions less points for winning the same match against an equal point counterpart in other divisions then there is no way that such a bias could exist | ||
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