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i am very impressed with this thread, though i have a few comments/questions
for the purpose of clarity to make future discoveries regarding this system, i believe that it would be more efficient, less argumentative, and more helpful to view if we say that:
Diamond Division Modifier = (64x - x)
For clarity:
Current name >>>> using 64x - x
S-Rank = + 0 >>>> 64(0) - 0 = + 0
A-Rank = + 63 >>>> 64(1) - 1 = + 63
B-Rank = + 126 >>>>64(2) - 2 = + 126
C-Rank = + 189 >>>>64(3) - 3 = + 189
D-Rank = + 252 >>>>64(4) - 4 = + 252
and so forth for as many "ranks" as we are unsure about. -- So S-rank is actually "x=0" and A-rank is actually just "x=1"
However, we are currently unsure as to why X has a changing value (addressed in OP "unanswered question #1")
On November 18 2010 05:22 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Unanswered Questions:
- How does the system determine which division tier a player should be placed? Obviously by MMR, but to what extent?
the (perhaps over-simplified) question before us is:
Why is the value of X, in the equation 64x - x, being set to different values for different players within diamond.
speculation on the answer for: why is the value of X different for different divisions?
Because the modifier is actually to be subtracted to find out a "true rating," it makes me wonder why points were ever added to begin with if they're to be taken away. Further, and more importantly, why are these points being subtracted from the "lower tier" division subsets?
refutable possibility, Please Respond to verify or destroy to this theory
I think that it's because Blizzard wanted to be able to strip as few points that people "earned" as possible while he or she was on his or her way towards diamond. However, these points earned while in bronze-platinum against non-diamond players do not count towards "true rating" (bonus pool not included, as that is always added).
People who are in the currently labeled "A-rank" through "E-rank" -- did you EVER gain points while in platinum or lower divisions? How many points (not including the bonus pool) would you say that you earned while in bronze-platinum against non-diamond players before becoming diamond?
I would like to believe that "S-Rank" divisions either went straight to diamond league after placement or within 64 points. "A-Rank" were originally in platinum, but only for about 65-126 points worth. "B-Rank" originally placed non diamond, but were promoted after about 190-251 points. Please post if this did or did not apply to you, or if you were platinum and became promoted to S-Rank.
(edit for clarity: and the points will be rounded away (disappear) to the lowest "tier" based on 64x-x)
MMR, Skill, and Ranks??
I believe the division modifier can actually be attributed to "skill," like some people say, but not in the common and lasting understanding of the term. I would say that a player has more skill to be able to reach diamond so quickly. I believe this is the way blizzard is using "skill" for divisions. this definition could also be called "speed of adaptation upon purchasing the game and starting multi-player," which is very different than eternal ranking or judging skill based on long ago placement.
However, I would never say that a player is lacking "skill" or deserves to be permanently in a lower division 3 months in to a game just because he took an additional 2 weeks in the beginning to reach diamond (especially if he was playing random or learning races).
so in summary, i believe the "true rating" reflects what i will call "untarnished points" -- that is, points earned against diamond level players until reaching diamond (at which point upon entering Diamond yourself, all points earned become untarnished).
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Why are you using 64x - x, instead of the equivalent 63x (which is what is basically proposed in the OP)? I don't see you actually make use of that form.
edit:
And to respond to this:
On November 26 2010 02:55 jaeds wrote:
However, I would never say that a player is lacking "skill" or deserves to be permanently in a lower division 3 months in to a game just because he took an additional 2 weeks in the beginning to reach diamond (especially if he was playing random or learning races).
You're somewhat right. The player is never actually penalized for being in a lower tier division, it's not like someone in a C-rank division needs to work any harder to get in the top 200 (provided their skill level is in the top 200). An underlying theme in your conclusion is making value judgements of the division tiers. Ideally that wouldn't be the focus, but since there's no way to get promoted out of Diamond it shines a spotlight on the uneven and (until now) unintuitive points among the best players.
When the Masters league is introduced this will solve the problem that you mention here. If Player A got into a low-tier diamond division then improved remarkably, with the Masters league he can be promoted again to a league where all divisions are equal.
so in summary, i believe the "true rating" reflects what i will call "untarnished points" -- that is, points earned against diamond level players until reaching diamond (at which point upon entering Diamond yourself, all points earned become untarnished).
Could you explain what you mean here? Are you inventing a new weighting of points or are you implying that blizzard does this on the back-end?
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NOTE: My following theory is Speculation based on a limited data set. please disprove/criticize where appropriate. If the league division modifiers do not change from 63x after the first top 200 rankings of December are posted, all of the below is unlikely to be true.
On November 26 2010 03:14 vanick wrote:
Why are you using 64x - x, instead of the equivalent 63x (which is what is basically proposed in the OP)? I don't see you actually make use of that form.
thank you for mentioning this, i was far too vague in my post above. i wanted to suggest that using 63x might be over simplifying the equation. currently, 63x is the simplest form based on the (limited) information from the last couple top 200 postings
I wanted to hypothesize that the division placement equation may in fact be this:
(2^(y+1))x - x
i am predicting that by the first top 200 rankings in december are posted, the "63x" division modifier will change and be able to be plugged into: (2^(y+1))x-x where X="division rank" and Y=month (1=july, when launched; 2=august 3=sept 4=nov 5=november (over the course of the ladder season. currently y=5)
This means that i predict in the first december rankings, we will see: (2^(6+1))x-x modifiers for these divisions within diamond. while this would be seen more simply as: "127x" as the new division modifier, this alone would not explain how this division modifier came to be the current division modifier, whereas it would be explained by the equation above
My Speculation to explaining the system
Definitions that explain the system:
"displayed rating" = "diamond points + division bonus + bonus pool
"true rating" = "diamond points" - division bonus + bonus pool
"diamond points" = points obtained by either: 1) winning against a diamond player, OR 2) winning against any player while currently in any diamond league. NOTE: diamond points are also able to be lost by 1) losing any game while in a diamond league OR 2) losing to any player who is in a diamond league
"non diamond points" = points obtained by either: winning against a non-diamond league player while currently not in a diamond league
"division bonus" = The amount of "non-diamond points" that get rounded down to fit one into a league division, based upon the division-placement equation above: 2^(y+1)x-x where X= a positive integer and Y = months into ladder, july=1, aug=2 for this season etc ---
How to Apply a Division Bonus:
Player X has finished his placement and is placed in Platinum. It is October (ladder month 4).
Player X plays an amount of games and acquires 100 non-diamond points (as well as an amount of diamond points that make him eligible for advancement)
To Determine which division bonus will be set for Player X, solve the following:
2^(y+1)x-x =< Amount of non-diamond points (at time of division advancement) using the largest integer possible for X. Round Amount of non-diamond points to the solution of the division placement equation.
2^(4+1)x-x =< 100; solve for X using the largest integer possible for X
32(3)-(3) =< 100
93 =< 100
Now, reduce player X's non-diamond points by 7 to set him on an even amount of inflated ground within his division.
Note: the benefit of this system is that while jumping from platinum to diamond made a few non-diamond points disappear from being rounded down to fit neatly into the division, there is actually no loss of "true rating" despite the reduced displayed rating amount.
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This was very interesting and I appreciate the effort put into to determine which divisions have more strength, but in the grand scheme of things divisions matter veryyy little.
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had a busy day at work and havent had as much time as i want so this is all i have for SEA so far a random few players from 155 downwards on SEA Server, can already see a few big jumps in points showing different teirs, my only fear is that the longer it goes the more players that I will not be able to get data for
clock baneling chi rank 155 with 2120
dizzycraft valkyrie charlie rank 155 with 2120
alttagan zealot epsilo rank 153 with 1808
iNcoG Zeratai-Eta rank 153 with 2123
AttackYou Queen Foxtrot Rank 151 with 1877
DarkNiTe Stukov Xi Rank 151 with
TCG Turaxis Tau Rank 150 601 534 with 2130 points
Toac Siege Tank Alpha Rank 149, 554 - 490 with points 2019 (cannot go back 38 games in history so nnot accurate score)
Counter Rank 148 Viking Rho 391 -344 with 2261 (cannot go back 29 games in history so not accurate score)
Ngen Flar rank 148 147 326 - 278 War Pigs Dixie with 2142 points
Kjok rank 146 417 - 369 Infestor Yankee with with 2132 points
Neddy the NErd RAnk 145 291-239 Zekrath Theta with 2133 points
Tekk rank 144 167-133 Seige tank alpha with 2008 points
TASalvation 143 536-477 Prelate November with 2121 (cannot go back 29 games in history so not accurate score)
Rossi 142 264-232 Drone Romeo with 2062
141 art of losing 197-153 Prelate november with 2008 points
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This is really depressing... Why didn't blizz tell us about it before ? I realized that even the best players in my division which are 2600+ points aren't in the top 200... Which means i've to get way more points to be elligible in the top 200 ? T______________T
If only i've known about it ealier i'd have played ladder non stop in order to be matched with the best players...
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On November 26 2010 16:33 RaiZ wrote:
This is really depressing... Why didn't blizz tell us about it before ? I realized that even the best players in my division which are 2600+ points aren't in the top 200... Which means i've to get way more points to be elligible in the top 200 ? T______________T
If only i've known about it ealier i'd have played ladder non stop in order to be matched with the best players...
who you're matched with has nothing to do with this rank.
they match you based on your MMR.
this top 200 means basically nothing in terms of skill ranking and matchmaking. it's just a list to show who can collect the most points.
you can have 1000 less points than the "top 200" guys and still get matched against them so no worries =)
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why cant they just call them like "division A-3" or something like that. it'd be less confusing...
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Race Balance Equation
They account for skill of opponents in race balance, why wouldn't they account for skill of opponents in the top 200? This just doesn't seem to make any sense. Blizzard most likely uses a calculus equation, such as the one above, to factor in a player's points, MMR, games played, and who they played against, and maybe other factors. I don't think division matters at all, and if it did then this wouldn't make any sense. If blizzard is accounting for skill of opponents in one area WHY THE HELL would they ignore it in this area????
Forgive me for being stupid if i made any big mistakes in my reasoning. Point them out and I'll try to shape my idea around it and show you what I mean.
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On November 27 2010 04:46 GarchompSC wrote:
wouldn't they account for skill of opponents in the top 200?
I don't think division matters at all, and if it did then this wouldn't make any sense
do you mean like "favored" vs. "opponent favored?"
also, we're still not sure about how people are placed divisions, or why players are getting point reductions based on their first few placement matches. a lot of the confusion is from MMR, which no one has hard numbers for or even how big or small the range of the numbers being used are
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Is there a modifier within divisions?
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On November 27 2010 06:05 trivium77 wrote:
Is there a modifier within divisions?
Not to our current understanding.
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i'm starting the think of the possible reasoning behind this modifier system:
I believe that it has to do with their "favored" "slightly favored" "opponent favored" system
using division modifiers would not penalize people who started with a high MMR after finishing their placement matches
I imagine that the divisions are as such to account for how many "opponent favored" or "opponent slightly favored" games (in a row) someone would have to win to obtain an equal MMR to someone who is in the higher division levels.
thus, these are NOT "Skill tiers" -- These are "MMR discrepancies upon being originally placed in Diamond tiers" which are able to be understood and compared between divisions by using the division modifier.
(and yes, if this is true (and this definitely sounds more reasonable), then what i was doing above would be completely wrong. i just wanted to say the above just in the tiny chance that it might be right)
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Can someone actually do it for EU ? :D
How did you actually find out the points of the players - did you manually look all the points up? Because thats a lot of effort and will take some time so it might be off a bit. Just wondering because Blizzard releases without points?
Like - when Blizzard releases Top 200 NOW - and I have to manually look up 200 players points, it could mean that they play games in between.. so how do you get points ASAP for all players at an equal time.
Because Sc2 ranks Top 200 won't work, since it doesn't show the modifications, so there got to be different top 200.-.-
Edit: Just read the whole thread, seems like people compare equal ranked players and do the math with it. Some guy wrote division-rankings for EU. Mar Sara Sigma is S-Rank :D I'm glad. Hopefully it really is s-rank.
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United States12224 Posts
On November 28 2010 21:20 G.s)NarutO wrote:
Can someone actually do it for EU ? :D
How did you actually find out the points of the players - did you manually look all the points up? Because thats a lot of effort and will take some time so it might be off a bit. Just wondering because Blizzard releases without points?
Like - when Blizzard releases Top 200 NOW - and I have to manually look up 200 players points, it could mean that they play games in between.. so how do you get points ASAP for all players at an equal time.
Because Sc2 ranks Top 200 won't work, since it doesn't show the modifications, so there got to be different top 200.-.-
Edit: Just read the whole thread, seems like people compare equal ranked players and do the math with it. Some guy wrote division-rankings for EU. Mar Sara Sigma is S-Rank :D I'm glad. Hopefully it really is s-rank.
They tell you what each player's record is though. So if someone had a record of 500-400 on the Top 200 but you click his name and see a record of 504-402, then you know he's played 6 games since then. You can look at his current points then go to his match history and start working backwards to discount his last 6 1v1 games, and that's how you know how many points that player had at the time the Top 200 was gathered.
As for whether it's a lot of work, it's really not... maybe a couple of hours or so for the entire Top 200. I think we have a few volunteers that will cover EU, LA, KR, etc tomorrow when the next Top 200 is posted. Of course, you could be one of those people :>
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Hehe, okay :-) Thanks for the effort, will probably help for next 200. 
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United States12224 Posts
Here's this week's parse, took about 75 mins. SC2Ranks' US-Masters page was once again accurate, and I was lucky to have opened the page at about 10:00 AM so it mirrored the Top 200 post almost exactly.
These rankings were accurate as of 9:45 AM 11/29/2010:
Blizz Name Record Rating Snapshot Division
1 PiQLiQ 1314-1029 3015 Shuttle Nu
2 Katari 1260-772 2975 Kelerchian X-Ray
3 TTOne 641-373 2968 Medic Mu
4 Cheese 405-242 2921 Akilae Omicron
5 BrokenRhythm 940-757 2892 Medic Pepper
6 ZpuX 169-96 2860 Medivac Juliet
7 Kowi 750-589 2859 Horner Chi
8 dde 349-244 2854 Turaxis Yankee
9 ROOTdrewbie 291-143 2851 Medic Mu
10 ROOTqxc 347-140 2846 Observer Mars
11 OpTiKzErO 625-467 2844 Selendis Quest
12 CocoA 560-407 2838 Observer Mars
13 ROOTslush 665-401 2836 Medivac Alamo
14 InflowMini 1115-930 3147 Scout Kilo
15 NamhciR 407-228 2826 Observer Mars
16 JJYAN 225-115 2821 Medivac Juliet
17 EGStrifeCro 515-336 2818 Akilae Omicron
18 CrunCher 392-272 2807 Medic Mu
18 AlLaboUtyOu 677-475 2996 Ehlna Bravo
20 Mankeyz 349-261 2805 Turaxis Yankee
21 SeleCT 551-211 2794 Medic Mu
22 OrgA 226-138 2793 Akilae Omicron
23 ViBE 342-224 2787 Medic Mu
24 Levin 672-495 2784 Medivac Alamo
25 bLuR 563-467 2897 Infestor Pepper
26 ROOTSheth 345-228 2760 Medivac Alamo
27 MasterAsia 379-254 2756 Kelerchian X-Ray
28 Boyardee 378-202 3000 Urun Charlie
29 nEAnS 596-442 2739 Medic Mu
29 EGiNcontroL 604-446 2739 Medivac Alamo
31 rsvp 559-473 2797 Argo Echo
32 Gretorp 366-256 2727 Immortal Yankee
33 Kyhol 582-446 2725 Observer Mars
34 ReSpOnSe 841-709 2718 Observer Mars
35 Slurgi 500-410 2715 Talematros Eta
36 ROOTCatZ 936-760 2711 Medivac Alamo
37 Magulina 144-84 2706 Medivac Juliet
38 TheZealot 114-53 2704 Overmind Victor
39 Agh 645-500 2702 Medic Mu
40 RaNgeD 789-687 2951 Augustgrad Psi
41 ROOTDdoRo 831-653 2950 Shuttle Foxtrot
42 Warden 785-649 2948 Boros Uncle
43 dKiLLeR 292-191 2693 Hartley Quest
44 sKsYeN 583-472 2938 Arcturus Mars
45 AlexCMoi 408-278 2683 Lenassa Dixie
46 BoO 565-464 2676 Uraj Omega
46 Spades 683-560 2865 Halcyon November
48 Capoch 477-359 2675 Observer Mars
49 SiN 588-476 2674 Medic Pepper
50 DeAtHRoW 389-243 2672 Medic Mu
51 toddman 667-549 2670 Medivac Alamo
52 Zelniq 1087-857 2664 Medivac Alamo
52 EGLzGaMeR 556-420 2664 Medivac Alamo
54 theognis 340-246 2784 Feld Lima
55 EGAxslav 588-414 2653 Pylon Kappa
56 InflowLooky 922-792 2652 Medivac Alamo
57 MnMEdward 738-631 2649 Medivac Juliet
58 InflowLinko 503-377 2646 Uraj Omega
59 Baz 1459-1242 2705 Argo Echo
60 RuFF 987-846 2704 Augustgrad X-Ray
61 DalaiLameR 130-85 2640 Uraj Dixie
61 HasHe 951-721 2640 Medivac Alamo
61 SKU 245-177 2766 Infestor Pepper
64 LiquidHuK 479-170 2639 Medivac Alamo
65 Ngry 231-150 2636 Akilae Omicron
65 EGMachine 229-148 2636 Kelerchian X-Ray
67 LeeHyoRi 430-329 2634 Hartley Quest
68 lime 308-239 2633 Observer Mars
69 EGiNkA 426-287 2629 Medivac Alamo
70 lamp 279-190 2628 Turaxis Yankee
71 zCore 963-885 2623 Observer Mars
72 EGIdrA 227-82 2622 Medic Mu
73 deth 242-187 2621 Overmind Victor
74 NadaViKinG 328-263 2618 Tassadar Charlie
75 Antimage 406-307 2615 Medic Mu
75 LuckyFool 487-390 2615 Medic Mu
77 Malice 719-540 2611 Medic Mu
77 Azz 471-386 2611 Immortal Yankee
79 EnvY 670-556 2609 Observer Mars
80 ThisIsJimmy 607-492 2605 Akilae Omicron
81 CellaWerra 381-232 2603 Raven Zed
82 InflowCoppah 577-464 2601 Medivac Alamo
83 prosu 436-361 2600 Lenassa Dixie
84 ACERGAMEGMMA 1557-1425 2913 Mohandar Romeo
85 SPeCiaLiST 480-393 2596 Phash Kappa
86 dayvie 502-383 2910 Scout Kilo
87 Humble 269-204 2592 Turaxis Yankee
87 MnMVadar 723-618 2592 Observer Mars
87 sikatrix 413-307 2592 Medic Mu
90 vVvRigid 653-516 2590 Medivac Alamo
91 Ryze 1061-950 2775 Hartley Nu
92 ROOTBubba 358-266 2580 Medivac Alamo
93 sixjaxNewsh 168-106 2578 Victory Bravo
93 nGenJazBas 139-81 2578 Overmind Victor
95 Arena 265-212 2576 Victory Bravo
96 OnEMoReTrY 357-282 2575 Uraj Omega
97 TriMaster 283-223 2574 Moratun Sierra
98 Mark 521-399 2573 Turaxis Yankee
98 lovemyRM 553-483 2573 Nagglfar Zed
100 mystik 446-383 2572 Akilae Omicron
100 MoMaN 201-122 2572 Pylon Kappa
102 Mura 499-436 2570 Medic Mu
103 Ganon 245-182 2694 Void Ray Tango
104 Kalu 208-143 2628 Rimes Tau
104 Maker 733-642 2691 Infestor Pepper
104 MsButtloaves 168-114 2565 Uraj Dixie
107 Broom 232-172 2564 Moratun Sierra
108 REBUKED 748-572 2626 Argo Echo
108 LiquidRet 133-44 2563 Phash Kappa
110 Drew 379-304 2562 Medic Mu
111 iKillBanshee 303-240 2559 Overmind Victor
111 Perplexity 633-534 2559 Immortal Yankee
113 Fenix 306-140 2558 Immortal Yankee
114 Thugnificent 1070-954 2620 Torrasque Eta
115 VTAttero 188-125 2555 Lenassa Dixie
116 DarkCell 257-194 2549 Zergling Quest
116 phantaxx 972-884 2612 Argo Echo
118 KANAKO 503-398 2863 Valerian Uncle
119 Dhalism 754-643 2547 Medic Mu
120 FlyingSheep 335-251 2672 Infestor Pepper
120 mkengyn 461-394 2546 Zergling Quest
120 NrGsteve 396-328 2546 Horner Chi
120 Fenneth 385-323 2546 Dominion Beta
124 Perfect 530-449 2608 Executor Phi
124 junny 275-206 2545 Talematros Eta
124 Monkey 704-576 2545 Medivac Alamo
124 Namkung 335-271 2545 Akilae Omicron
128 Taurent 365-219 2544 Akilae Omicron
129 Destiny 822-735 2538 Observer Mars
130 makoplux 613-557 2537 Uraj Omega
131 EtsurLizzuma 667-588 2725 Shakuras Uncle New
132 Nadagast 267-178 2534 Talematros Eta
133 Pokebunny 230-163 2532 Selendis Quest
134 DuFFmAn 686-578 2531 Medivac Alamo
135 Sungpa 593-512 2845 Dragoon Sierra
136 FireZerg 517-421 2529 Medic Mu
136 ROOTFayth 354-272 2655 Infestor Pepper
136 VTWhiplash 354-296 2529 Observer Mars
139 RaNGirLxD 386-317 2527 Kelerchian X-Ray
139 Pasildan 101-64 2527 Tychus Theta New
141 VTmisery 445-368 2526 Observer Mars
142 Nostra 922-815 2645 Spectre Zed
142 scvrusher 277-212 2771 Urun Charlie
144 CubonePKM 394-321 2516 Medic Mu
145 oNe 105-62 2512 Shuttle Nu
145 spekkiO 149-98 2512 Overmind Victor
147 Kangwook 542-458 2761 Feld Delta
148 jungik 248-193 2503 Moratun Sierra
148 NeRzyMan 763-679 2692 Halcyon November
150 PsY 195-131 2502 Uraj Omega
151 hotsauce 728-627 2500 Medivac Alamo
152 NyDGMMA 1632-1506 2813 Raven Chi
153 Denelorn 198-93 2497 Victory Bravo
154 Bamboocha 252-180 2496 Kelerchian X-Ray
154 Sixto 896-786 2811 Roach Iota New
156 BananaMilk 123-70 2495 Hartley Quest
157 BigMac 202-155 2494 Horner Chi
158 ROOTKiWiKaKi 243-96 2493 Medivac Alamo
158 hiturheart 209-151 2493 Turaxis Yankee
158 KawaiiRice 220-111 2493 Medic Mu
161 SoFtBalL 168-105 2492 Uraj Dixie
161 Ascension 299-223 2807 Muadun Pepper New
163 Deezer 590-508 2741 Boros Iota New
164 DashforCash 811-729 2550 Argo Echo
165 AlwaysYou 308-247 2485 Shuttle Nu
166 magnolia 577-533 2484 Zergling Quest
167 LiquidTyler 203-107 2483 Zekrath Sigma
168 Yakero 155-48 2482 Hartley Quest
169 sLeepisT 403-328 2481 Immortal Yankee
169 Despiron 468-403 2481 Medivac Alamo
171 YoonYJ 83-45 2480 Phash Kappa
172 giX 291-221 2478 Immortal Yankee
172 GoGoGo 110-69 2478 Overmind Victor
174 tQState 376-317 2477 Selendis Quest
175 huyNh 559-490 2476 Medivac Alamo
175 Polar 397-338 2476 Akilae Omicron
175 Pookie 484-418 2476 Immortal Yankee
178 VTClonze 221-164 2474 Medic Mu
179 Lost 441-377 2472 Medic Pepper
179 WannaBe 190-145 2472 Phash Kappa
181 NeverDawn 208-141 2471 Tassadar Charlie
181 Xog 826-744 2597 Feld Lima
183 CNBgrtmn 206-148 2470 Talematros Eta
183 AoNe 752-668 2659 Phash Bravo New
185 GplaysNet 129-98 2469 Shuttle Nu
186 OdiN 678-606 2463 Tassadar Charlie
187 owmygroin 1035-943 2462 Medic Mu
187 SlayerSBekHo 248-195 2462 Zergling Quest
189 Android 638-525 2458 Medivac Alamo
190 RuNei 238-185 2457 Observer Mars
190 Hawk 362-286 2772 Raven Chi
192 LegendofBert 567-499 2455 Medic Mu
193 aLeJ 279-212 2706 Praetor Indigo New
194 ButteryLlama 668-569 2453 Medic Mu
195 PhiliBiRD 210-155 2451 Pylon Kappa
196 LiquidNazgul 181-116 2450 Medivac Juliet
197 Kookiez 305-241 2764 Scout Kilo
198 Smurf 284-217 2510 Kaloth Psi New
199 BheLLioM 815-726 2445 Medic Mu
199 Shuffle 201-160 2445 Medic Pepper
New Divisions This Week:
S-Rank: +0
Tychus Theta
A-Rank: +63
Kaloth Psi
B-Rank: +126
Boros Iota
C-Rank: +189
Phash Bravo
Shakuras Uncle
D-Rank: +252
Praetor Indigo
E-Rank: +315
Muadun Pepper (confirmed from last week)
Roach Iota
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Awesome work Excalibur. It's great that we now have a constantly updated Top 200 list at SC2Ranks!!!
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We know that divisions are not equal, confirmed at Blizzcon.
We know that the Top 200 is generated by points without factoring in "the skill of your division."
probably missing something obvious here but all devissions are equall
they would only be tiered if you would play only people in your divission but since you play people across all divissions and since this also seems to be random (based on mmr) playing in division a is the same as playing in division b
The only tiers wich can be made are for different server groups like eu and asia, and usa
based on that location differences in divvisions can occur since one divisions is for example in the usa and the other is in europe and the usa tierd group might be alot stronger on average then the european tiered group
Off course blizzard puts together the strong players to make for an interesting competition in every single division
so there are diamond divissions with the top 10 having 2500 and there probably also diamond divissions with the top 10 beeing 2000
The diamond divission you are in has no impact on your mmr and the points you win or loose
There is realy no ground to asume there would be a difference, it doesnt make sence and blizzard never has given an indication that there is
if you have 123 mmr in divission a and win against someone with 124 mmr in divission b, you would win exactly the same amount of points as if that person with 124 mmr would have been in divission c or a
Realy puzzled what people trying to achieve with this tread, there definatly is no way to track back your mmr based on your divission, points and bonus pool
am 99.99% sure divissions have nothing to do with this and people just analysing to much
blizzard just puts strong (equal) players together to make an interesting competition in every single ladder, but this does not in anny way influence your mmr your ladder points or your bonus
pool
edit to respond
thx for response below, admit that my post is indeed a bit all over the place and shall try to keep it more sturctured
So no, all divisions are not equal. 2000 points in a top-tier division does not equate to 2000 points in a bottom-tier division
My claim would be indeed that 2000 points in top tier is the same as 2000 points in a lower tier (considering they both diamond) wich seems to follow what you say about mmr
I still dont see anny reason to believe otherwise and i also dont see how differences can occur considering its all just based on mmr and mmr is not depended on division as you also said i think
Dont claim to understand how it works far from that but this doesnt make sense to me, still if "everyone" says there is "something" then am sure that there must be something so will read a bit more about this and make a better structured post if i understand it a bit better
Can understand that mmr has an influence on the division you are place in and i do agree that some divisions have a higher mmr (and ladder point) average then other divission
still i find it hard to believe that getting 2000 points would be harder in a top tier divission then in a mid tier divission
I Cant see where the difference could start
for example: there 10 divission tiers
player a is playing in the top tier divission 1 and he plays 10 games,
1 game against 1 person in each of the other divissions and he score 90 % loosing only to the other guy in divission 1 he will get x points for this based on the mmr of all the opponents
Now player b who is playing in divission tier 10 also plays 10 games against the same opponents a just played
b does remarebly well and score 90% loosing only to the player in the tier 1 divission
he will gain the exact same amount of points as player a just did or am i missing something now?
also you dont loose points when you moved from 1 diamond division to a higher tier division and if 2k points in t1 would be different then 2k points in a lower thier, then wouldnt some point adjustment be made, just like a point adjustment is made when you promoted from bronze to silver and so on?
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United States12224 Posts
On November 30 2010 09:52 Rassy wrote:
We know that divisions are not equal, confirmed at Blizzcon.
We know that the Top 200 is generated by points without factoring in "the skill of your division."
probably missing something obvious here but all devissions are equall
they would only be tiered if you would play only people in your divission but since you play people across all divissions and since this also seems to be random (based on mmr) playing in division a is the same as playing in division b
The only tiers wich can be made are for different server groups like eu and asia, and usa
based on that location differences in divvisions can occur since one divisions is for example in the usa and the other is in europe and the usa tierd group might be alot stronger on average then the european tiered group
Off course blizzard puts together the strong players to make for an interesting competition in every single division
so there are diamond divissions with the top 10 having 2500 and there probably also diamond divissions with the top 10 beeing 2000
The diamond divission you are in has no impact on your mmr and the points you win or loose
There is realy no ground to asume there would be a difference, it doesnt make sence and blizzard never has given an indication that there is
if you have 123 mmr in divission a and win against someone with 124 mmr in divission b, you would win exactly the same amount of points as if that person with 124 mmr would have been in divission c or a
Realy puzzled what people trying to achieve with this tread, there definatly is no way to track back your mmr based on your divission, points and bonus pool
am 99.99% sure divissions have nothing to do with this and people just analysing to much
blizzard just puts strong (equal) players together to make an interesting competition in every single ladder, but this does not in anny way influence your mmr your ladder points or your bonus pool
You're kind of all over the place on this post, so I'll try and piece it out. I get what you're saying about tiers not making sense and you're totally right in that regard, but the evidence shows us otherwise. I've said it a few times in this thread already, but the design intent behind tiering is to have players of a similar skill be ranked together in a division while simultaneously allowing a degree of normalization across divisions. If I were to say to you "I'm 1500 Diamond, what are you?" and you responded "oh I'm 1500 Diamond also" but what you didn't know was that you have a division offset of +315 and I have one of +0, I actually would be higher ranked because your 1500 points are equal to 1185 points in my division. However, Battle.net does a good job of hiding this information from view in order to prevent players from feeling like they're falling too far behind.
You're right that the division you're in has no impact on your MMR, because MMR transcends divisions and leagues. However, your MMR has an impact on the division in which you are placed. Basically all that matters here is initial placement. The example you gave of a "123 MMR player in division A winning against someone with 124 MMR in division B" (it's actually opponent MMR vs your adjusted rating [sans offsets], but I get your meaning) is correct. Division offsets have no meaning in determining points.
So no, all divisions are not equal. 2000 points in a top-tier division does not equate to 2000 points in a bottom-tier division. Please review the initial post, work through the numbers, read the rest of the thread, and let me know if you still don't follow.
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EPT
