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United States12240 Posts
On November 17 2010 19:56 Cedstick wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 17 2010 14:40 2FresH wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2010 14:10 Excalibur_Z wrote:This week's Top 200 also included the win-loss records of each player at the time of the snapshot, which means we can use their match histories on Battle.net to work backwards and determine their points. Here are the results. The bolded lines are verified entries, meaning I was able to confirm that their current point values properly matched up to their match history. The unbolded lines are entries that could not be verified because they've either played too many non-1v1s or more than 25 1v1 games such that I couldn't go far enough back in their history.
Blizz Name Record Snapshot Rating Division
1 Katari 1102-671 2834 Kelerchian X-Ray
2 SeleCT 551-211 2794 Medic Mu
3 ROOTslush 604-357 2775 Medivac Alamo
4 TTOne 572-341 2734 Medic Mu
5 AlLaboUtyOu 650-459 2905 Ehlna Bravo
6 EGStrifeCro 475-310 2703 Akilae Omicron
7 Boyardee 365-199 2927 Urun Charlie
8 CrunCher 348-240 2664 Medic Mu
9 HasHe 861-632 2646 Medivac Alamo
10 Cheese 382-231 2645 Akilae Omicron
11 dKiLLeR 285-184 2639 Hartley Quest
12 LiquidHuK 479-170 2639 Medivac Alamo
13 Baz 1296-1091 2633 Argo Echo
14 MasterAsia 348-227 2623 Kelerchian X-Ray
14 ViBE 327-217 2623 Medic Mu
16 EGIdrA 227-82 2622 Medic Mu
17 OpTiKzErO 543-404 2530 Selendis Quest
18 ROOTqxc 314-124 2605 Observer Mars
19 Warden 731-606 2845 Boros Uncle
20 EGiNkA 419-280 2583 Medivac Alamo
21 Slurgi 417-338 2581 Talematros Eta
22 Cranklodocus 600-474 2570 Horner Chi
23 DuFFmAn 611-497 2569 Medivac Alamo
24 Perplexity 561-457 2568 Medivac Alamo
24 InflowMini 924-790 2883 Scout Kilo
26 ROOTdrewbie 269-131 2564 Medic Mu
27 nEAnS 573-424 2536 Medic Mu
28 Fenix 306-140 2558 Immortal Yankee
29 dde 318-229 2557 Turaxis Yankee
30 NamhciR 379-213 2580 Observer Mars
31 PainUser 260-118 2549 Pylon Kappa
32 BrokenRhythm 758-593 2547 Medic Pepper
33 TheZealot 104-53 2546 Overmind Victor
34 lovemyRM 470-405 2540 Nagglfar Zed
35 theognis 335-244 2661 Feld Lima
36 Zelniq 988-763 2442 Medivac Alamo
37 Denelorn 190-79 2545 Victory Bravo
38 Gretorp 309-214 2526 Immortal Yankee
39 DeAtHRoW 361-214 2521 Medic Mu
40 Kangwook 490-400 2772 Feld Delta
41 DalaiLameR 106-62 2518 Uraj Dixie
42 InflowLooky 831-715 2488 Medivac Alamo
42 JJYAN 201-98 2512 Medivac Juliet
44 Mankeyz 280-209 2485 Turaxis Yankee
45 sixjaxNewsh 94-36 2505 Victory Bravo
45 PiQLiQ 998-812 2630 Shuttle Nu
47 CocoA 520-389 2502 Observer Mars
48 stev 376-308 2454 Horner Chi
49 BananaMilk 123-70 2495 Hartley Quest
50 EGMachine 221-146 2492 Kelerchian X-Ray
Keeping in mind that the Top 200 is by points before division modifiers are applied (because divisions are not equal), this tells us a few things: * Kelerchian X-Ray and Medic Mu are equal in rank. - Medivac Alamo and Akilae Omicron are probably equal in rank to Kelerchian X-Ray and Medic Mu * Ehlna Bravo is a rank below Kelerchian X-Ray * Urun Charlie is a rank below Ehlna Bravo * Boros Uncle is a rank below Kelerchian X-Ray and Medic Mu, but it is not known whether it is equal to Ehlna Bravo or Urun Charlie Based on these findings we can create a kind of division hierarchy: S-Rank: Medic Mu Medivac Alamo (likely) Kelerchian X-Ray Akilae Omicron (likely) Hartley Quest (likely) Argo Echo (likely) Horner Chi (likely) Talematros Eta (likely) Horner Chi (likely) Immortal Yankee (likely) Turaxis Yankee (likely) Observer Mars (likely) Pylon Kappa (likely) Medic Pepper (likely) Overmind Victor (likely) Nagglfar Zeg (likely) Selendis Quest (possible) Uraj Dixie (likely) Medivac Juliet (likely) A-Rank: Ehlna Bravo Feld Lima B-Rank: Urun Charlie Feld Delta Not Sure If A-Rank or B-Rank: Boros Uncle Scout Kilo Shuttle Nu Unsure: Victory Bravo (possible S-Rank?) EDIT: Some more interesting data points: * 2568 Medivac Alamo is equal to 2883 in Scout Kilo (+315 points) * 2845 Boros Uncle is between 2605 and 2583 in S-Rank (between +240 and 262 points) * 2772 Feld Delta is between 2521 and 2518 in S-Rank (between +251 and 254 points) is this why i did not make top 200? becus of my shitty unknown division (raynor delta)? I have beat several of the top 200, as well as have a better win/loss ratio and higher points =( Nah, dude, lots of people on the Top-200 that aren't in divisions that fall in to his little theory. Medic Mu and Medivac Alamo are just fucking baller, that's all. Two of the first Diamond divisions, made-up by all the best Brood War/Beta players who got to Diamond first. Same goes with the other divisions with good rankings: most of them are just early divisions.
Whether or not they're early makes no difference. Some of them are brand new like Hartley Quest and Raven Zed, but they're made up of top-level players. If you're not in one of those top divisions then you would have to have a higher number of points to compensate, like those players in Scout Kilo for example.
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EU Protoss are still losing ground as well, despite their already underwhelming presence:
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/970448#blog
Terran: 77 (-5)
Zerg: 77 (+7)
Protoss: 45 (-2)
R: 1 (+-0)
If you follow the trend of the last two weeks instead, it even gets more drastic:
T: -9
Z: + 18
P: -8
R: -1
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Yeah Medic Mu is a boss division. I have over 2,500 points and it's a struggle to stay in the top 10.
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On November 17 2010 11:52 oZii wrote:http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/1152288Show nested quote +
Didnt see a post for this yet I think this is a little late than normal.
Top 10
Rank Character Name
1 Katari
2 SeleCT
3 ROOTslush
4 TTOne
5 AlLaboUtyOu
6 EGStrifeCro
7 Boyardee
8 CrunCher
9 HasHe
10 Cheese
Top 10 5 - Toss 3- Terran 2- Zerg TotalTerran- 82 Zerg- 62 Protoss- 46 Random -10 EDIT- Total Race distribution Added
These statistics are meaningless unless you assume that the players are equi-distribuated between the race (1/3 of players playing Zerg, 1/3 playing protoss...) which is TOTALLY not the case (just check this on sc2ranks.com or Blizzard stats, they're like 20% of the overall player base who are Zergs).
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On November 17 2010 13:51 DuFFmAn69 wrote:
i can confirm that katari is getting really good at his 4gate strat
You sound pretty jealous. You think it's easy to 4 gate the best NA players on a regular basis and maintain that win ratio?
I've looked at his match history and 2-4 game winning streaks within an hour against the same player are quite common. Someone mentioned IdrA losing 3 in a row to him as one example.
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On November 17 2010 13:00 Ryzu wrote:
Zerg 57 (28.5%) ↓3 (1.5%)
Terran 72 (36.0%) ↑2 (1.0%)
Protoss 70 (35.0%) ↑2 (1.0%)
Random 1 ( 0.5%) ↓1 (0.5%)
Haters gonna hate!
Hehe just felt like pointing out how it must be to be in theTop 200 as random.
I like how Toss are doing so well in the ladder, but seriously, even as a diehard Zerg fan I'm dying to see some gosu Toss action in GSL
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from these data it is clear, the game is imba towards random
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On November 18 2010 03:30 TeWy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2010 11:52 oZii wrote:http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/1152288
Didnt see a post for this yet I think this is a little late than normal.
Top 10
Rank Character Name
1 Katari
2 SeleCT
3 ROOTslush
4 TTOne
5 AlLaboUtyOu
6 EGStrifeCro
7 Boyardee
8 CrunCher
9 HasHe
10 Cheese
Top 10 5 - Toss 3- Terran 2- Zerg TotalTerran- 82 Zerg- 62 Protoss- 46 Random -10 EDIT- Total Race distribution Added These statistics are meaningless unless you assume that the players are equi-distribuated between the race (1/3 of players playing Zerg, 1/3 playing protoss...) which is TOTALLY not the case (just check this on sc2ranks.com or Blizzard stats, they're like 20% of the overall player base who are Zergs).
It's not meaningless at all. Protoss being the most played race SHOULD share the most spots in the top 200, they don't. As with that Zerg SHOULD share the least amount, they don't. You can make an inference on this and say that there is a problem, especially with the trends that are happening that support this. +18 Zergs? -8 Protoss. Games fine, obv.
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On November 18 2010 03:36 Ezze wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2010 13:51 DuFFmAn69 wrote:
i can confirm that katari is getting really good at his 4gate strat You sound pretty jealous. You think it's easy to 4 gate the best NA players on a regular basis and maintain that win ratio? I've looked at his match history and 2-4 game winning streaks within an hour against the same player are quite common. Someone mentioned IdrA losing 3 in a row to him as one example.
you cant be serious about 4 gate being hard.
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On November 18 2010 04:15 Looky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 03:36 Ezze wrote:On November 17 2010 13:51 DuFFmAn69 wrote:
i can confirm that katari is getting really good at his 4gate strat You sound pretty jealous. You think it's easy to 4 gate the best NA players on a regular basis and maintain that win ratio? I've looked at his match history and 2-4 game winning streaks within an hour against the same player are quite common. Someone mentioned IdrA losing 3 in a row to him as one example. you cant be serious about 4 gate being hard.
it takes tremendous control to use 4 gate at that level. if it didn't every toss would still be using it. but does katari even 4 gate? i could have sworn i saw phoenix in like half of his match histories vs terran
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Maybe cause half of the players on the NA ladder play protoss. I'm sure its not half, but I remember seeing some numbers suggesting that protoss was the most played race.
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It's not true that katari 4-gates/FE 5-gates every game - he does have a few varied builds and he changes it up.
I don't get why the guy doesn't sign up for some tournaments or MLG, I suppose he's content being a mass ladder gamer but it would be interesting to see how he can do in a much different setting.
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On November 18 2010 04:20 KillerPlague wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 04:15 Looky wrote:On November 18 2010 03:36 Ezze wrote:On November 17 2010 13:51 DuFFmAn69 wrote:
i can confirm that katari is getting really good at his 4gate strat You sound pretty jealous. You think it's easy to 4 gate the best NA players on a regular basis and maintain that win ratio? I've looked at his match history and 2-4 game winning streaks within an hour against the same player are quite common. Someone mentioned IdrA losing 3 in a row to him as one example. you cant be serious about 4 gate being hard. it takes tremendous control to use 4 gate at that level. if it didn't every toss would still be using it. but does katari even 4 gate? i could have sworn i saw phoenix in like half of his match histories vs terran
I can confirm he 4 gates me every pvp, and on streams when people go against him he 4 gates.
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On November 18 2010 04:05 QuantumTheory wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 03:30 TeWy wrote:On November 17 2010 11:52 oZii wrote:http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/1152288
Didnt see a post for this yet I think this is a little late than normal.
Top 10
Rank Character Name
1 Katari
2 SeleCT
3 ROOTslush
4 TTOne
5 AlLaboUtyOu
6 EGStrifeCro
7 Boyardee
8 CrunCher
9 HasHe
10 Cheese
Top 10 5 - Toss 3- Terran 2- Zerg TotalTerran- 82 Zerg- 62 Protoss- 46 Random -10 EDIT- Total Race distribution Added These statistics are meaningless unless you assume that the players are equi-distribuated between the race (1/3 of players playing Zerg, 1/3 playing protoss...) which is TOTALLY not the case (just check this on sc2ranks.com or Blizzard stats, they're like 20% of the overall player base who are Zergs). It's not meaningless at all. Protoss being the most played race SHOULD share the most spots in the top 200, they don't. As with that Zerg SHOULD share the least amount, they don't. You can make an inference on this and say that there is a problem, especially with the trends that are happening that support this. +18 Zergs? -8 Protoss. Games fine, obv.
This was my point actually. OP didn't include the ratio of the overall race's base thus making his stats meaningless.
Once you take into account the fact that Protoss is nearly 2 times more plaid than Zerg, these kind of stats start to make sense and indicate something huge.
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On November 17 2010 11:58 Proto_Protoss wrote:
Well at least protoss is winning something finally...But i dont understand how toss do so well on ladder but in major tournaments they are a dwindling race
Because in tournaments 85% of the Protosses are NOT 4gating.
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I saw OrgA (#51) beat HasHe (top 10) twice in a row and receive +16 and +15 for those games. Which is fine considering their ranking positions. But then I saw OrgA also beat Zelniq (30s), and he only received 10 points...why is that the case if this list is based solely on MMR.
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Minigun #24 <3 minigun fighting!
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8751 Posts
On November 18 2010 04:55 GaussWaffle wrote:
I saw OrgA (#51) beat HasHe (top 10) twice in a row and receive +16 and +15 for those games. Which is fine considering their ranking positions. But then I saw OrgA also beat Zelniq (30s), and he only received 10 points...why is that the case if this list is based solely on MMR.
Who or what are you responding to? Nobody said that the list is based on MMR. It isn't based on MMR. As a few people have said in this thread already, it's based on points adjusted for strength of division.
And even though you're correct in arguing that the list isn't based on MMR, your evidence doesn't support it. Point change after a ladder match isn't based solely on MMR. Your point change is based on your opponent's MMR against your actual points and your opponent's point change is based on your MMR against your opponent's actual points.
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How do we know that the top 200 is based from adjusted points in the strength of your division? I'm asking because I've seen several platinum players in the top 200 - those that were stuck in plat b/c they hadn't accumulated enough losses for promotion (i.e. LiquidRet and aloOla a few weeks ago).
Also, how does blizzard base their ranking of divisions? For example, how do they know Kelerchian X-Ray/Medic Mu/Medivac Alamo are "better" division than others? Is this ranking based on MMR? If Blizzard can somehow quantify the rigor of each division, does that mean it's harder to gain points in an "S-class" division vs an A- or B-class?
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On November 17 2010 13:18 QuantumTheory wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2010 13:00 Ryzu wrote:On November 17 2010 12:19 QuantumTheory wrote:On November 17 2010 12:13 dras wrote:
decent balance imo. The most played race is the least represented in the top 200 -_- . The KR top 200, on the other hand, shows all 3 relatively equal. Zerg 57 (28.5%) ↓3 (1.5%) Terran 72 (36.0%) ↑2 (1.0%) Protoss 70 (35.0%) ↑2 (1.0%) Random 1 ( 0.5%) ↓1 (0.5%) Now look at the stats of people who qualified for the GSL.
To talk about GSL qualification we need to see the groups (or do they put exactly same amount of races in one group?).
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EPT
