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I disagree with pirating and believe it is wrong, would not partake myself. But frankly I can't manage to get angry about people pirating a game with draconian measures like Bnet 2.0.
Requiring online activation for single player, continual connection, no offline support like LAN or direct-ip, no third party servers so the community can't mod-in stuff like the missing chat channels. These are dick moves, I assume enforced by Activision.
Again, I am not condoning piracy - it is unequivocally unethical. But instead of anger at these pirates, I feel more of a yawn coming on in cases where the DRM abuse of customers is particularly egregious.
SC2 is the first and last game with online authentication requirements I will buy (or play, since I don't pirate). I only put up with it since it's freaking starcraft, and only then because I have an interest in competitive online play and so would be online anyway. But I'm still not happy with it.
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Frankly, I doubt there would be quite so much piracy if the single-player campaign delivered more value. A short single-player campaign with a smattering of random plot points with the only real payoff coming at the end, it doesn't really justify the ticket price and there's no option to purchase just the single-player component. If I wasn't interested in SC2 multiplayer, I wouldn't feel that the price was justified at all.
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On November 16 2010 13:08 SNAX wrote:
Starcraft costs too much. I mean yeah they can get away with charging it, but when you know you're going to sell millions of copies, plus expansions, then you really should charge $40/game and then you'd sell more.
you've got to be pretty poor to complain about game cost
the value of a game is hours played divided by cost, and if anyone bought SC2 for multiplayer, then they definitely got their money's worth
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Yeah, it's not like they get to play anything besides the single player so it's not really that big of a deal.
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This was always going to happen. It's unavoidable now that people will crack and release pirate copies of games. But piracy really isn't as HORRIFYING as the media and big companies make it out to be.
There's a really interesting article by indie developer Wolfire in regards to piracy, it's worth a read if you're interested in the topic.
http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Another-view-of-game-piracy
Also, Notch (creator of Minecraft) shares his opinion on piracy and it's effect on sales and revenue.
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/1121596044/how-piracy-works
Personally, I think Blizzard has the right idea when it comes to anti-pirate measures, but they're just going about it the wrong way. LAN and cross region play are two of the biggest features that made SC1 great and so popular. Removing them was a mistake, pure and simple. Surely there's a way to have the best of both worlds, even if it is just a LAN client for big tournaments.
I think LAN would work great if you could log into your account (while connected to the net of course) and just have a validation check to a blizz server right before the match. That way blizzard can know that you're on a legit client, players can have LAN ping and you won't get booted out of the match if you disconnect half way through.
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Don't leave the bank door unlocked if you don't want people to steal what's inside. Even if that means playing cat and mouse until the day you die.
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I "illicity downloaded the game" for the EU version. I received an EU account key through legit means and it's faster to torrent the installer than to download it via the Blizz downloader (which ironigcally is a torrent...) 12-14 hours vs 1.5 hours. So I have a legal copy and my installer was technically "pirated." Though I see nothing really illegal about this.
edit: changed the wording to match the OP
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On November 16 2010 13:10 MavercK wrote:
these stats are pointless
the same as Epic Games saying Unreal Tournament 3 was pirated 20-40 million times.
if piracy didn't exist would Unreal Tournament sell 20-40 million copies? i doubt it.
also there is no multiplayer crack. only solo vs ai capabilities. which can easily be done with the map editor. hardly need a crack...
this thread should be closed as it has already divulged into flat out WRONG information.
No, it wouldn't have sold 40 million copies. But to deny that the piracy didn't eat up some sales is wrong too. About this thread being WRONG as you say it may or may not be the case since nobody can really know if those illegal downloads were just done because the Blizz downloader was crappy.
But I get your point as companies tend to exaggerate the piracy numbers. But we can't deny that piracy is not a problem regarding game sales.
About this thread being closed. I didn't post this with any malicious intent. I'll leave it up to the judgement of the admins
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On November 16 2010 12:05 B-Wong wrote:
That's terrible, I hate seeing people who cheat there way through such great things (music, movies, etc.) That many people have put a lot of effort into and are free to enjoy what they want without even supporting such products. It disgusts me when people like this "Bite the Hand That Feeds" (if anyone gets this reference +300 cool points).
Nine Inch Nails?
And I'm going to be honest here: I pirate games all the time. I pirated Starcraft 2. HOWEVER I do not play all the way through games, and most of the time, I just buy it if it's fun enough. With SC2, I wanted to play the campaign and practice for multiplayer, so I pirated it, beat the campaign and played the AI, and when I had the money, bought it. Pirating to me is a good thing, because it pretty much allows me to have a free demo of the game. If I don't like it, I just dont play it. If I do, I buy it. However, most people just steal it, and that, to me, is despicable. Seriously people. If you pirate a game, buy the damn thing, especially if its indie and the dev doesn't get much money from it anyways.
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On November 16 2010 13:20 TheMonkeyMon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2010 12:05 B-Wong wrote:
That's terrible, I hate seeing people who cheat there way through such great things (music, movies, etc.) That many people have put a lot of effort into and are free to enjoy what they want without even supporting such products. It disgusts me when people like this "Bite the Hand That Feeds" (if anyone gets this reference +300 cool points). Nine Inch Nails? And I'm going to be honest here: I pirate games all the time. I pirated Starcraft 2. HOWEVER I do not play all the way through games, and most of the time, I just buy it if it's fun enough. With SC2, I wanted to play the campaign and practice for multiplayer, so I pirated it, beat the campaign and played the AI, and when I had the money, bought it. Pirating to me is a good thing, because it pretty much allows me to have a free demo of the game. If I don't like it, I just dont play it. If I do, I buy it. However, most people just steal it, and that, to me, is despicable. Seriously people. If you pirate a game, buy the damn thing, especially if its indie and the dev doesn't get much money from it anyways.
Problem with your argument is the availability of trial keys to try the game legally.
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On November 16 2010 13:19 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2010 13:10 MavercK wrote:
these stats are pointless
the same as Epic Games saying Unreal Tournament 3 was pirated 20-40 million times.
if piracy didn't exist would Unreal Tournament sell 20-40 million copies? i doubt it.
also there is no multiplayer crack. only solo vs ai capabilities. which can easily be done with the map editor. hardly need a crack...
this thread should be closed as it has already divulged into flat out WRONG information. No, it wouldn't have sold 40 million copies. But to deny that the piracy didn't eat up some sales is wrong too. About this thread being WRONG as you say it may or may not be the case since nobody can really know if those illegal downloads were just done because the Blizz downloader was crappy. But I get your point as companies tend to exaggerate the piracy numbers. But we can't deny that piracy is not a problem regarding game sales. About this thread being closed. I didn't post this with any malicious intent. I'll leave it up to the judgement of the admins
i meant flat out wrong information in regards to someone saying theres a multiplayer crack
and i just see this thread going downhill. they always do.
immoral/moral who cares. piracy is here to stay. you can't put a padlock on software. all you can do is deliver the best possible product and the best possible service to the point where playing your game legally is a better experience than pirating. this is where most companies get it wrong. they try to padlock their game. cut features (LAN) and restrict everything. this PROMOTES piracy as generally a cracked/unlocked game offers more features, is more easily played, etc etc.
you can bet your ass if a iCCup type private server started up. or the ability for people to host their own, local, b.net servers. piracy for starcraft 2 would skyrocket. why? because suddenly the community has put together a better game than blizzard. not because all pirates wear eye patches and are evil.
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I really don't understand the point of pirating games like this or Bad Company 2? You don't even get to play the major component of the game unless you pay for it.
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On November 16 2010 13:22 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2010 13:20 TheMonkeyMon wrote:On November 16 2010 12:05 B-Wong wrote:
That's terrible, I hate seeing people who cheat there way through such great things (music, movies, etc.) That many people have put a lot of effort into and are free to enjoy what they want without even supporting such products. It disgusts me when people like this "Bite the Hand That Feeds" (if anyone gets this reference +300 cool points). Nine Inch Nails? And I'm going to be honest here: I pirate games all the time. I pirated Starcraft 2. HOWEVER I do not play all the way through games, and most of the time, I just buy it if it's fun enough. With SC2, I wanted to play the campaign and practice for multiplayer, so I pirated it, beat the campaign and played the AI, and when I had the money, bought it. Pirating to me is a good thing, because it pretty much allows me to have a free demo of the game. If I don't like it, I just dont play it. If I do, I buy it. However, most people just steal it, and that, to me, is despicable. Seriously people. If you pirate a game, buy the damn thing, especially if its indie and the dev doesn't get much money from it anyways. Problem with your argument is the availability of trial keys to try the game legally.
Absolutely. The thought didn't even occur to me with sc2. >.< See, even with most of the time me not outright stealing the games, I do forget legal options. Pirating is a slippery slope.
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On November 16 2010 12:13 Plexa wrote:I would bet that a number of those illegal downloads are actually people just annoyed with the speed of the blizzard dl 
I was one of them.
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They're all missing out.
Unless they actually have a key, but want to skip the Blizzard process in the middle.
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On November 16 2010 12:13 Plexa wrote:I would bet that a number of those illegal downloads are actually people just annoyed with the speed of the blizzard dl
Yep
I bought the game, but torrented it because it was a hell of a lot faster than Blizzard's downloader, and I didn't have a dvd-rom drive at the time.
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On November 16 2010 13:23 MavercK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2010 13:19 windsupernova wrote:On November 16 2010 13:10 MavercK wrote:
these stats are pointless
the same as Epic Games saying Unreal Tournament 3 was pirated 20-40 million times.
if piracy didn't exist would Unreal Tournament sell 20-40 million copies? i doubt it.
also there is no multiplayer crack. only solo vs ai capabilities. which can easily be done with the map editor. hardly need a crack...
this thread should be closed as it has already divulged into flat out WRONG information. No, it wouldn't have sold 40 million copies. But to deny that the piracy didn't eat up some sales is wrong too. About this thread being WRONG as you say it may or may not be the case since nobody can really know if those illegal downloads were just done because the Blizz downloader was crappy. But I get your point as companies tend to exaggerate the piracy numbers. But we can't deny that piracy is not a problem regarding game sales. About this thread being closed. I didn't post this with any malicious intent. I'll leave it up to the judgement of the admins i meant flat out wrong information in regards to someone saying theres a multiplayer crack and i just see this thread going downhill. they always do. immoral/moral who cares. piracy is here to stay. you can't put a padlock on software. all you can do is deliver the best possible product and the best possible service to the point where playing your game legally is a better experience than pirating. this is where most companies get it wrong. they try to padlock their game. cut features (LAN) and restrict everything. this PROMOTES piracy as generally a cracked/unlocked game offers more features, is more easily played, etc etc.
Oh sorry I misunderstood you then. As for your last few points, I mean yeah they can deliver good content and hope that because its good people will buy it. But that is not always the case, I don't exactly remember much of the details, but there was a case where an indie developer offered its game and whatever price you wanted to pay. The game itself was great quality and you could buy it at 1 cent(and I even think part of the profits went to charity) people still pirated it.
Some people just feel it is their right to have stuff for free because X or Y reason(I do think that a lot of games are overpriced, and I have pirated a few things myself). But just offering a good game is just not enough incentive for some.
About the DRM promoting piracy we can't really say. Its just circular logic. DRM was implemented because piracy but it encourages more piracy, so what do we get? Worse DRM and on and on and on until the only people that lose are legit customers.
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thing about pirating games like this, is that how many people pirate the game to see what its like, and then upon discovering this, want to play online and buy it.
couple that with people who download it just cos its faster that way, lol.
probably a lot of those 2,1 million paid for the game
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I downloaded the client through a torrent and added to this number, seriously have you guys tried to use the blizzard downloader??? soooo slow and sooo many hoops to jump through.
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On November 16 2010 13:34 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2010 13:23 MavercK wrote:On November 16 2010 13:19 windsupernova wrote:On November 16 2010 13:10 MavercK wrote:
these stats are pointless
the same as Epic Games saying Unreal Tournament 3 was pirated 20-40 million times.
if piracy didn't exist would Unreal Tournament sell 20-40 million copies? i doubt it.
also there is no multiplayer crack. only solo vs ai capabilities. which can easily be done with the map editor. hardly need a crack...
this thread should be closed as it has already divulged into flat out WRONG information. No, it wouldn't have sold 40 million copies. But to deny that the piracy didn't eat up some sales is wrong too. About this thread being WRONG as you say it may or may not be the case since nobody can really know if those illegal downloads were just done because the Blizz downloader was crappy. But I get your point as companies tend to exaggerate the piracy numbers. But we can't deny that piracy is not a problem regarding game sales. About this thread being closed. I didn't post this with any malicious intent. I'll leave it up to the judgement of the admins i meant flat out wrong information in regards to someone saying theres a multiplayer crack and i just see this thread going downhill. they always do. immoral/moral who cares. piracy is here to stay. you can't put a padlock on software. all you can do is deliver the best possible product and the best possible service to the point where playing your game legally is a better experience than pirating. this is where most companies get it wrong. they try to padlock their game. cut features (LAN) and restrict everything. this PROMOTES piracy as generally a cracked/unlocked game offers more features, is more easily played, etc etc. Oh sorry I misunderstood you then. As for your last few points, I mean yeah they can deliver good content and hope that because its good people will buy it. But that is not always the case, I don't exactly remember much of the details, but there was a case where an indie developer offered its game and whatever price you wanted to pay. The game itself was great quality and you could buy it at 1 cent(and I even think part of the profits went to charity) people still pirated it. Some people just feel it is their right to have stuff for free because X or Y reason(I do think that a lot of games are overpriced, and I have pirated a few things myself). But just offering a good game is just not enough incentive for some. About the DRM promoting piracy we can't really say. Its just circular logic. DRM was implemented because piracy but it encourages more piracy, so what do we get? Worse DRM and on and on and on until the only people that lose are legit customers.
issue with indie games is they have no marketing. indie games these days however have a TON of success on steam.
the only time people even find out about some indie games is when they pop up on release sites and then it's just a couple of clicks away to get the game. as opposed to hunting it down and trying to find where it's sold few more clicks to buy it. then gotta go through whatever DRM solution it's imposed. maybe install Impulse or something you dont want. it goes on. see what i mean by this?
"hmmm. 1 click.. free game?, 100 clicks... not free game"
often times it is FAR easier to pirate the game. just because it's far less effort.
Gabe Newell said this perfectly in an interview. PC Gamers spend thousands and thousands of dollars on their computer. money isn't the issue. it's not that people want it for free. it's that it's often 100x easier and also a better SERVICE to just pirate the damn thing.
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EPT
