EPTPatch 1.1.3 - Page 8
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mufin
United States616 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On November 09 2010 14:30 monteyuma wrote: So Reapers should attack buildings instead of non light units? Does a Battlecruiser prioritize Air or Ground units (8 vs 6 dmg)? And Queens? Do they attack the Medivac with a/t-click or the ground units? PS: Why do the 'patch notes' say explicitly "Medivacs" and not air-units or transporters? DO they really only mean Medivacs? IIRC, medivacs took a higher priority then other "drop ship" units because of its ability to heal, so they already attacked ground units over warp prisms/overlords. Also: i'm pretty happy with this patch - smart idea for blizzard to not really mess up with any of the balances yet until they have better indications of the state of balance or lack thereof. I want chat rooms though :[. | ||
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Paradice
New Zealand431 Posts
p.s. found another change - double clicking a replay file will now directly launch the replay, you don't have to log into battle.net first | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On November 09 2010 14:30 mOnion wrote: its not about dps its about killing the shit that's killing you, and its a huge problem with drops and mass medivac play against stalkers Lets say you have two Stalkers. 250/100 I have 1 Medivac and 3 Marines. 250/100 Stalkers do 10 damage per 1.44 seconds to Light, and 14 per 1.44 to Armored. Medivacs heal 13.5 HP per second. This is 19.44 HP per 1.44 So, if your two Stalkers are attacking the Marines and not the Medivac, because they are not killing it in one shot, they are literally doing 0.56 damage per shot until the Medivac runs out of energy. Assuming the Medivac has full energy, this literally means that by the time your two Stalkers have killed 1 Marine, the 3 Marines have killed 9 Stalkers, or 3/4ths of a Nexus. If they are attacking the Medivac, they are doing 28 damage per shot, and once they kill the Medivac, they will then kill the Marines. This actually results in them killing that first Marine 10 times faster, assuming the Medivac has full energy. The actual results will not be this severe, but it is a noticeable difference. Now, you can get in a debate as to whether or not the AI should intelligently autotarget the Medivac because this results in it killing the enemy composition faster than if it did not autotarget the Medivac. That is obviously debatable. However, Blizzard seems to think that it should autotarget the Medivac. And lo, for every unit in the game that attacks both ground and air, it is better to target the Medivac first. Except for the Thor. Thus the change, it remains in line with the design plan that in a situation involving Medivacs, a units AI should attack the thing that results in it doing the most damage. Edit: Also, because I know somebody is going to say "but in situations with larger unit numbers stuff will actually die blah blah this example is not applicable to a real game scenario" yes it's true that the larger the comps get the less silly the example will look, but the result will still be that it's better to target the Medivac first. The Terran player always wants to keep his Medivacs behind the drop units so the Stalker/Marine/Void Ray/Whatever cannot attack it. | ||
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Reggae-Troll
Finland241 Posts
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Zaurus
Singapore676 Posts
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Wayem
France455 Posts
It's really stupid you have to log out once an opponent has beend found in a public game and you don't want to play him for multiple reasons :| | ||
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
On November 09 2010 15:10 Ketara wrote: Lets say you have two Stalkers. 250/100 I have 1 Medivac and 3 Marines. 250/100 Stalkers do 10 damage per 1.44 seconds to Light, and 14 per 1.44 to Armored. Medivacs heal 13.5 HP per second. This is 19.44 HP per 1.44 So, if your two Stalkers are attacking the Marines and not the Medivac, because they are not killing it in one shot, they are literally doing 0.56 damage per shot until the Medivac runs out of energy. Assuming the Medivac has full energy, this literally means that by the time your two Stalkers have killed 1 Marine, the 3 Marines have killed 9 Stalkers, or 3/4ths of a Nexus. If they are attacking the Medivac, they are doing 28 damage per shot, and once they kill the Medivac, they will then kill the Marines. This actually results in them killing that first Marine 10 times faster, assuming the Medivac has full energy. The actual results will not be this severe, but it is a noticeable difference. Now, you can get in a debate as to whether or not the AI should intelligently autotarget the Medivac because this results in it killing the enemy composition faster than if it did not autotarget the Medivac. That is obviously debatable. However, Blizzard seems to think that it should autotarget the Medivac. And lo, for every unit in the game that attacks both ground and air, it is better to target the Medivac first. Except for the Thor. Thus the change, it remains in line with the design plan that in a situation involving Medivacs, a units AI should attack the thing that results in it doing the most damage. Edit: Also, because I know somebody is going to say "but in situations with larger unit numbers stuff will actually die blah blah this example is not applicable to a real game scenario" yes it's true that the larger the comps get the less silly the example will look, but the result will still be that it's better to target the Medivac first. The Terran player always wants to keep his Medivacs behind the drop units so the Stalker/Marine/Void Ray/Whatever cannot attack it. thank you for the isolated scenario where all terrans drop is 3 marines. fact is that they usually drop marauders and those are the huge tanks that I want to kill before he destroys my tech buildings or nexus. 8 marauder drops are insanely hard to stop with stim, and getting the right number of units back to deal with it without bringing your whole 1A army is incredibly difficult to calculate in the heat of the situation, medivacs are in the air, if i want to target them I can. same for PF's and Thors being repaired. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
That is why the AI shoots the Medivac first, and that is why the Thor was changed. | ||
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
On November 09 2010 15:51 Ketara wrote: Be it Marines or Marauders, you will kill the drop faster by shooting the Medivac first, no matter the situation. That is why the AI shoots the Medivac first, and that is why the Thor was changed. I don't agree with you at all. | ||
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mikell
Australia352 Posts
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
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zoOv
Australia269 Posts
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lindn
Sweden833 Posts
On November 09 2010 16:04 mikell wrote: can people really stop saying meta game? hopefully not saying meta game won't mess up the meta game, y'know... people won't know what meta game means and the world will fall apart | ||
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schiznak
Australia258 Posts
Yeah, mathematically im absoloutley certain there are situations where killing the units themselves is faster than killing the medivac followed by the units, IE 7 mutas against 2 marines and 1 medivac | ||
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Metalwing
Turkey1038 Posts
"Balance Terran Repairing offensive units generates threat" | ||
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GreyFoxMe
Sweden36 Posts
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cocosoft
Sweden1068 Posts
Also, anyone knows what Tug of War maps are? On November 09 2010 16:35 zoov wrote: Ahhhh I thought for a moment chat channels were finally implemented. Patch 1.2. | ||
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Silu
Finland165 Posts
Thor shooting a Medivac does 6.67 DPS and will basically never splash to anything else in TvT Thor shooting a ground unit with 0 armor does 46.87 DPS Thor shooting a ground unit with 1 armor does 45.31 DPS | ||
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Goliathsorrow
Italy317 Posts
On November 09 2010 15:10 Ketara wrote: Lets say you have two Stalkers. 250/100 I have 1 Medivac and 3 Marines. 250/100 Stalkers do 10 damage per 1.44 seconds to Light, and 14 per 1.44 to Armored. Medivacs heal 13.5 HP per second. This is 19.44 HP per 1.44 So, if your two Stalkers are attacking the Marines and not the Medivac, because they are not killing it in one shot, they are literally doing 0.56 damage per shot until the Medivac runs out of energy. Assuming the Medivac has full energy, this literally means that by the time your two Stalkers have killed 1 Marine, the 3 Marines have killed 9 Stalkers, or 3/4ths of a Nexus. If they are attacking the Medivac, they are doing 28 damage per shot, and once they kill the Medivac, they will then kill the Marines. This actually results in them killing that first Marine 10 times faster, assuming the Medivac has full energy. The actual results will not be this severe, but it is a noticeable difference. Now, you can get in a debate as to whether or not the AI should intelligently autotarget the Medivac because this results in it killing the enemy composition faster than if it did not autotarget the Medivac. That is obviously debatable. However, Blizzard seems to think that it should autotarget the Medivac. And lo, for every unit in the game that attacks both ground and air, it is better to target the Medivac first. Except for the Thor. Thus the change, it remains in line with the design plan that in a situation involving Medivacs, a units AI should attack the thing that results in it doing the most damage. Edit: Also, because I know somebody is going to say "but in situations with larger unit numbers stuff will actually die blah blah this example is not applicable to a real game scenario" yes it's true that the larger the comps get the less silly the example will look, but the result will still be that it's better to target the Medivac first. The Terran player always wants to keep his Medivacs behind the drop units so the Stalker/Marine/Void Ray/Whatever cannot attack it. And that is why Blizzard doesn't change the Stalker's AI but I would like to add something based on my protoss experience. If I'm attacking a terran ball with my protoss army and the Zealots are hitting the front line I would like the Stalkers to help outdps the Medivacs cuz if the Stalker aims the Medivacs the scenario is usually that Medivacs heal a lot of the Zealot dps rendering them much less effective so that the terran ball can clean them up and then finish the Stalkers that are dispersing their dps instead of focusing with the Zealots. While in a pure Stalker army situation, aiming the Medivacs first would be better, in a mix I think it would be better if the Stalkers would support the Zealots instead of minding their own business and getting owned aftewards. Not sure if I explained it correctly. | ||
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