• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:56
CEST 11:56
KST 18:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
GSTL Returns in 2026!15Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-611
StarCraft 2
General
GSTL Returns in 2026! SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Protoss AoE skill expression Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
Best Games Kespa era BW General Discussion StarCraft 64 is coming to Philly at SC4ALL II ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Artificial Intelligence Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4393 users

MLG extended Series Poll - Page 52

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 50 51 52 53 54 72 Next
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
October 17 2011 03:03 GMT
#1021
I really dislike it, just because it often leads to matches being play really late in a tournament being almost forgone conclusions. I don't like that just because someone lost in pool play, we should then have a much less exciting semi finals because one player started 2-0 up just because the other had a bad day on day 1. Really ruins the excitement of the later rounds for me.
Dirtysocks
Profile Joined August 2011
Czech Republic68 Posts
October 17 2011 03:07 GMT
#1022
If I remember correctly some tournaments did not have extended series, but made it 3x BO3 which 1st BO3 was already played. Say that player A won 2-0 first one. Then player B would have to win 2x BO3 and it could be 2-4, 3-4, 4-4 or (4-5 if first one was 2-1) So if it was 2-0 player B has to win 4 games and can loose 2 games. Which is better for winner, but if it was 2-1 player B need to win one game to make it 2-2 instead winning BO3. Which is cool. So 2-0 is good for winner 2-1 favorite the looser in weird point of view.
vol_
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia1608 Posts
October 17 2011 03:21 GMT
#1023
I would rather see extended series removed and have MLG make the later rounds bo5
Jaedong gives me a deep resonance.
darklight54321
Profile Joined July 2011
United States361 Posts
October 17 2011 03:38 GMT
#1024
On October 17 2011 12:21 vol_ wrote:
I would rather see extended series removed and have MLG make the later rounds bo5


doesn't change the idea behind extended series, and would make it even worse to have extended series.
Bijan
Profile Joined October 2010
United States286 Posts
October 17 2011 03:44 GMT
#1025
Picture this scenario:

MC loses to HuK 0 - 2
MC fights his way to the finals for an extended series
HuK loses the finals, 2 - 1

If that whole series were to be looked at as a Bo5, HuK should have won. The extended series works to ensure that the winning player is always the clear victor by virtue of total sets won.
Fenrax
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States5018 Posts
October 17 2011 03:50 GMT
#1026
It is NOT fair. Imagine Football World Cup. In Group stages Brazil beats Netherlands 2-0. Netherlands wins rest on their games, though and thus they meet again in Finals. So Brazil starts the game with 2-0 lead? Would that also be fair?
babo213
Profile Joined January 2011
United States266 Posts
October 17 2011 03:51 GMT
#1027
On October 17 2011 12:44 Bijan wrote:
Picture this scenario:

MC loses to HuK 0 - 2
MC fights his way to the finals for an extended series
HuK loses the finals, 2 - 1

If that whole series were to be looked at as a Bo5, HuK should have won. The extended series works to ensure that the winning player is always the clear victor by virtue of total sets won.


That's ridiculous way to look at it imo. It's like say in the World Cup group play Brazil lost to France then they meet again France was ahead 2-0 or whatever the goal differential was. It's stupid and pointless. At most it should be a 1-0 lead in a best of 7 and the finals should be best of 5 anyway regardless.
Group play games have less pressure and importance why should the games that truly matter not be on an even footing?
Spaceneil8
Profile Joined February 2011
United States317 Posts
October 17 2011 04:56 GMT
#1028
On October 17 2011 12:51 babo213 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2011 12:44 Bijan wrote:
Picture this scenario:

MC loses to HuK 0 - 2
MC fights his way to the finals for an extended series
HuK loses the finals, 2 - 1

If that whole series were to be looked at as a Bo5, HuK should have won. The extended series works to ensure that the winning player is always the clear victor by virtue of total sets won.


That's ridiculous way to look at it imo. It's like say in the World Cup group play Brazil lost to France then they meet again France was ahead 2-0 or whatever the goal differential was. It's stupid and pointless. At most it should be a 1-0 lead in a best of 7 and the finals should be best of 5 anyway regardless.
Group play games have less pressure and importance why should the games that truly matter not be on an even footing?

The thing is that those games happen very far apart while MLG happens over a weekend. MLG's are basically one continuous play session so the previous series should be taken into account.
TheToast
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4808 Posts
October 17 2011 04:57 GMT
#1029
On October 17 2011 12:44 Bijan wrote:
Picture this scenario:

MC loses to HuK 0 - 2
MC fights his way to the finals for an extended series
HuK loses the finals, 2 - 1

If that whole series were to be looked at as a Bo5, HuK should have won. The extended series works to ensure that the winning player is always the clear victor by virtue of total sets won.


That's not how it works, in your example HuK would have won. Essentially the extended series adds a maximum of 4 extra games onto the previous bo3. In your example, if HuK beats MC 2-0 then in the final HuK only needs to pick up 2 games to win. MC has to pick up 4.

It really does make things fair as every game counts for something. But many people are saying it takes away some of the excitement from the finals, and I do believe they have a point. I really like the extended series rule, but tournament final match-up should just be a bo7 straight up IMO.

I like the way the walls go out. Gives you an open feeling. Firefly's a good design. People don't appreciate the substance of things. Objects in space. People miss out on what's solid.
ninjamyst
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1903 Posts
October 17 2011 05:07 GMT
#1030
On October 17 2011 13:56 Spaceneil8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2011 12:51 babo213 wrote:
On October 17 2011 12:44 Bijan wrote:
Picture this scenario:

MC loses to HuK 0 - 2
MC fights his way to the finals for an extended series
HuK loses the finals, 2 - 1

If that whole series were to be looked at as a Bo5, HuK should have won. The extended series works to ensure that the winning player is always the clear victor by virtue of total sets won.


That's ridiculous way to look at it imo. It's like say in the World Cup group play Brazil lost to France then they meet again France was ahead 2-0 or whatever the goal differential was. It's stupid and pointless. At most it should be a 1-0 lead in a best of 7 and the finals should be best of 5 anyway regardless.
Group play games have less pressure and importance why should the games that truly matter not be on an even footing?

The thing is that those games happen very far apart while MLG happens over a weekend. MLG's are basically one continuous play session so the previous series should be taken into account.


Only true if MLG is a one day event. But the pool play started Friday and finals was Sunday. MC could have had a bad day on Friday but he still fought his way to the finals. Why should he have to suffer for it 2 days later?
Sirvantes7
Profile Joined May 2011
United States18 Posts
October 17 2011 07:33 GMT
#1031
On October 17 2011 13:57 TheToast wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2011 12:44 Bijan wrote:
Picture this scenario:

MC loses to HuK 0 - 2
MC fights his way to the finals for an extended series
HuK loses the finals, 2 - 1

If that whole series were to be looked at as a Bo5, HuK should have won. The extended series works to ensure that the winning player is always the clear victor by virtue of total sets won.


That's not how it works, in your example HuK would have won. Essentially the extended series adds a maximum of 4 extra games onto the previous bo3. In your example, if HuK beats MC 2-0 then in the final HuK only needs to pick up 2 games to win. MC has to pick up 4.

It really does make things fair as every game counts for something. But many people are saying it takes away some of the excitement from the finals, and I do believe they have a point. I really like the extended series rule, but tournament final match-up should just be a bo7 straight up IMO.




Well, in "normal" double elimination tournaments, the loser bracket's winner has to defeat the winner's bracket winner in 2 best of whatever the final match is. (In MGL's case 2 Bo3s). That is the fairest possible way to do this without screwing the lowers with "extended series, and it makes sure that it is true to the double elimination scheme.

I have no clue why on earth people think that the extended series is more fair than this.
I wonder what my APM is while clearing Quasar [A]....
Oceaniax
Profile Joined June 2010
146 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-17 07:47:44
October 17 2011 07:42 GMT
#1032
Regardless of whether or not you think it's "fair" or not, it makes for far, far less compelling games to watch. Knowing someone is down 0-2 coming into a match just skews the match so in favor of the previous victor it just isn't very compelling to watch (MOST of the time).
Sirvantes7
Profile Joined May 2011
United States18 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-17 08:14:38
October 17 2011 08:13 GMT
#1033
On October 17 2011 16:42 Oceaniax wrote:
Regardless of whether or not you think it's "fair" or not, it makes for far, far less compelling games to watch. Knowing someone is down 0-2 coming into a match just skews the match so in favor of the previous victor it just isn't very compelling to watch (MOST of the time).


Well, I agree with you that I would rather watch a single elimination tournament than to deal with the whole extended series issue/bullshit.

Honestly, it should only be an issue for the grand finals, there is no reason for it to play out earlier than that.

(I honestly hope you aren't thinking that I am saying that the extended series is fair.)
I wonder what my APM is while clearing Quasar [A]....
Razith
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada431 Posts
October 17 2011 08:16 GMT
#1034
A tournament is designed to pit everyone against everyone to see who is the best. Why should one player get two tries? Extended series is what you need to win to prove you're the best as he already beat you. To get back into the finals is your own problem because you have to prove your worth being in there at all, especially if the guy you're going to face in the finals already destroyed you.
Longshank
Profile Joined March 2010
1648 Posts
October 17 2011 08:23 GMT
#1035
It doesn't really matter if you can cook up graphs or calculations that shows it being fair or not. It makes for shitty series and goes against the spirit of competition that exists in regular sports. I got a feeling most of those in favor of the rule aren't that big into sports.
zul
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany5427 Posts
October 17 2011 08:37 GMT
#1036
On October 17 2011 10:54 Fenrax wrote:
It is just a stupid shitty rule. It is a) unfair and b) creates horrendously boring best-of series'.
Winner already had a giant advantage for his win in the earlier rounds and if the other player fights his way through a lower bracket he deserves equal odds again. Nothing else to say about it. It sucks. Get rid of it.

you are soo wrong. I don`t know if you watched the series of IdrA vs Boxer, but Boxers Comeback from a 0:3 (to tie it up to 3:3) was nothing short but epic. AND the rule is fair. I don`t know why people hate on this - it makes MLG special. In case you don`t see why it is fair, I will explain it.

First of all, the rule aplies for everyone. Second, Imagine a scenario between player A and player B. Player A wins 2:0 over player B in earlier stages of the playoffs and advances undefeated to the grand finals. Player B goes down to the lower/losers Bracket and wins the rest of his matches to reach the grand finals as well. Now player B wins 2:0 and therefore the tournament. How would this be fair, if both players have lost the same amout of games and are tied in games (in direct comparison). Extended series make sure, the winner of the first match has the advantage he deserves, when the opponents meet in the later stages. It does NOT produce boring matches - it is the other way around. It gives more importance to all the matches (including early ones), because you never know if you will meet each other in later stages of the tournament and therefore you better make sure to lead the extended series.
keep it deep! @zulison
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-17 08:49:01
October 17 2011 08:48 GMT
#1037
On October 17 2011 12:44 Bijan wrote:
Picture this scenario:

MC loses to HuK 0 - 2
MC fights his way to the finals for an extended series
HuK loses the finals, 2 - 1

If that whole series were to be looked at as a Bo5, HuK should have won. The extended series works to ensure that the winning player is always the clear victor by virtue of total sets won.


The part where you say "if that was a BO5 HuK would have won" is the part that doesn't make sense about this argument. Because it isn't a BO5. It's a BO3. Why would you look at a previous series which is already over? You're referring to past results and counting them twice.

What happens in REALITY is that HuK won 1 series in pool play, and MC won 1 series in the finals. And it makes sense that winning in the finals will be more important... because it's the fucking finals.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-17 08:52:42
October 17 2011 08:51 GMT
#1038
On October 17 2011 16:33 Sirvantes7 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2011 13:57 TheToast wrote:
On October 17 2011 12:44 Bijan wrote:
Picture this scenario:

MC loses to HuK 0 - 2
MC fights his way to the finals for an extended series
HuK loses the finals, 2 - 1

If that whole series were to be looked at as a Bo5, HuK should have won. The extended series works to ensure that the winning player is always the clear victor by virtue of total sets won.


That's not how it works, in your example HuK would have won. Essentially the extended series adds a maximum of 4 extra games onto the previous bo3. In your example, if HuK beats MC 2-0 then in the final HuK only needs to pick up 2 games to win. MC has to pick up 4.

It really does make things fair as every game counts for something. But many people are saying it takes away some of the excitement from the finals, and I do believe they have a point. I really like the extended series rule, but tournament final match-up should just be a bo7 straight up IMO.




Well, in "normal" double elimination tournaments, the loser bracket's winner has to defeat the winner's bracket winner in 2 best of whatever the final match is. (In MGL's case 2 Bo3s). That is the fairest possible way to do this without screwing the lowers with "extended series, and it makes sure that it is true to the double elimination scheme.

I have no clue why on earth people think that the extended series is more fair than this.


Yea I don't get why people complain about "extended series" in the finals. It actually helps the guy coming from lower bracket since in a normal Double elim he would have to win 2xBo3 but since he lost 1-2 he only has to win 3 games where as winner still has to win 2. Thus it gives the advantage to the guy that lost 1-2 relative to a normal double elim.


On October 17 2011 17:48 Talin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2011 12:44 Bijan wrote:
Picture this scenario:

MC loses to HuK 0 - 2
MC fights his way to the finals for an extended series
HuK loses the finals, 2 - 1

If that whole series were to be looked at as a Bo5, HuK should have won. The extended series works to ensure that the winning player is always the clear victor by virtue of total sets won.


The part where you say "if that was a BO5 HuK would have won" is the part that doesn't make sense about this argument. Because it isn't a BO5. It's a BO3. Why would you look at a previous series which is already over? You're referring to past results and counting them twice.

What happens in REALITY is that HuK won 1 series in pool play, and MC won 1 series in the finals. And it makes sense that winning in the finals will be more important... because it's the fucking finals.


The tournament is double elim. Even without extended series Huk would not have lost if he lost 2-1 in the first Bo3 there would have been a second Bo3. Do people just not understand how Double elim works?
Alvar
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden61 Posts
October 17 2011 08:53 GMT
#1039
On October 17 2011 17:37 zul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2011 10:54 Fenrax wrote:
It is just a stupid shitty rule. It is a) unfair and b) creates horrendously boring best-of series'.
Winner already had a giant advantage for his win in the earlier rounds and if the other player fights his way through a lower bracket he deserves equal odds again. Nothing else to say about it. It sucks. Get rid of it.

you are soo wrong. I don`t know if you watched the series of IdrA vs Boxer, but Boxers Comeback from a 0:3 (to tie it up to 3:3) was nothing short but epic. AND the rule is fair. I don`t know why people hate on this - it makes MLG special. In case you don`t see why it is fair, I will explain it.

First of all, the rule aplies for everyone. Second, Imagine a scenario between player A and player B. Player A wins 2:0 over player B in earlier stages of the playoffs and advances undefeated to the grand finals. Player B goes down to the lower/losers Bracket and wins the rest of his matches to reach the grand finals as well. Now player B wins 2:0 and therefore the tournament. How would this be fair, if both players have lost the same amout of games and are tied in games (in direct comparison). Extended series make sure, the winner of the first match has the advantage he deserves, when the opponents meet in the later stages. It does NOT produce boring matches - it is the other way around. It gives more importance to all the matches (including early ones), because you never know if you will meet each other in later stages of the tournament and therefore you better make sure to lead the extended series.

In this scenario both players would not have won the same amount of games. In MLG player B would have played a shitload of more games to even get to the finals.

Besides, people are not saying it should then be a BO3 finals, it should be a BO7 or something like that with WB having a 1-0 advantage.
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
October 17 2011 09:07 GMT
#1040
On October 17 2011 17:37 zul wrote:
First of all, the rule aplies for everyone. Second, Imagine a scenario between player A and player B. Player A wins 2:0 over player B in earlier stages of the playoffs and advances undefeated to the grand finals. Player B goes down to the lower/losers Bracket and wins the rest of his matches to reach the grand finals as well. Now player B wins 2:0 and therefore the tournament. How would this be fair, if both players have lost the same amout of games and are tied in games (in direct comparison).


No they aren't tied.

Player B won 2 games in the finals. Player A won 0 games in the finals. Player B won the finals. Player B won the tournament. This is how EVERY tournament works (that has pool play). Are you saying ALL other tournaments are "unfair"?

MLG tells you that you should look at results of previous series to determine fairness. If you're looking at results of series that are already over in pool play, why not look at results between A and B in past MLGs as well? I mean they can just decide to count ANYTHING out of the blue and calculate the result like that, and make a case for how it's "fair" because some numbers add up somehow.

It's a completely arbitrary, made up out of nowhere rule because somebody thought it's a "cool idea" or something.
Prev 1 50 51 52 53 54 72 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 141
BRAT_OK 61
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 945
Mini 379
Pusan 132
Mong 119
EffOrt 114
Light 102
Larva 88
Yoon 66
Soma 64
Sharp 53
[ Show more ]
ToSsGirL 50
Rush 24
sorry 20
yabsab 19
Noble 18
soO 17
hero 17
ZerO 12
NotJumperer 11
Sacsri 10
Sexy 6
Snow 0
Dota 2
The International35488
Gorgc12918
Fuzer 296
KheZu42
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1732
shoxiejesuss999
byalli500
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King140
Other Games
ceh9490
crisheroes231
kaitlyn12
ZerO(Twitch)4
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 10
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 38
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1515
League of Legends
• Jankos1670
• Stunt588
Upcoming Events
Escore
4m
PiG Sty Festival
2h 4m
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs Zoun
Big Brain Bouts
6h 4m
Nicoract vs Neeb
TriGGeR vs ShoWTimE
CranKy Ducklings
1d
PiG Sty Festival
1d 2h
herO vs Krystianer
Solar vs Cure
IPSL
1d 6h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
Maru vs Shameless
Reynor vs TriGGeR
IPSL
2 days
OSC
2 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
The Patches Monday
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
KCM Race Survival
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-13
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W7
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
META DYMY #4
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.