EPTA look at the Raven's role in TvZ - Page 3
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Thor1104
16 Posts
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Elmo
France90 Posts
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trevf
United States237 Posts
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 21 2010 17:01 Nazza wrote: Seeker Missile - "Let's make an ability that people can RUN AWAY FROM!" You mean: Seeker Missile - "Let's make a Nuke equivalent that doesn't cost 100/100 to build and is launched by our flying mobile detector that can also PDD". | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 21 2010 17:28 bLah. wrote: Check that game again and you'll see that HSM actually didn't kill anything. Yeah getting a shitton of Mutas to 5 hp isn't "killing anything". Idra obviously GGd solely because Qxc was stim kiting the blings. | ||
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Drakkart
80 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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terranghost
United States980 Posts
On October 21 2010 16:57 Snowfield wrote: I agree, i want to use HSM's vs banelings, but i just can't because it's too much of a damned investment, and that HSM's take fucking 125 energy which should be reduced because right now it's fairly lolworthy, as HSM's take the second most useless skill, right after Thor's strike cannons When they decided that "HSM's shouldn't be that good anymore" they might as well have lowered the energy cost a little. edit: If hydra's where ever used i wouldve gotten a couple for PDD since it doesn't require a upgrade (lol, why not though, it's much better then HSM) That might make the cheesy all in only raven build a bit too strong if the energy were lowered to anything 100 or below you wouldn't want a single raven being able to launch 2 at full energy. Just a thought for the raven in general what about using it in a banshee rush you would have to get both of your geysers very fast. But I believe PDD not only blocks hydra shots but queen shots as well as spore shots which would allow your banshees to do more damage possibly allow them to kill the AA. edit: On October 21 2010 21:28 Elmo wrote: Just give HSM some range so it can play kind of the same role as irradiate : make a unit run out of her army ball. if the range were increased the spell would probably have to be redesigned IMO as of right now its pretty easy even for a novice to tell the whole group of whatever run away select the one unit being targeted single it out to run more and tell the rest of the units to go back and fight. If the range were increased said novice would not even have to retreat the whole clump they could single it out very easy. | ||
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ZappaSC
Denmark215 Posts
On October 21 2010 21:58 IdrA wrote: ravens and ghosts are both sick good and theyre gonna see a lot more use as soon as terrans realize the old bullshit doesnt work anymore True, i think they are gonna get standart to get before moving out with mech, since burrowed roaches (that arent moving) can ruin your day. (btw gl in r32) | ||
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Doko
Argentina1737 Posts
Marauders cover the Anti roach Marines rape mutas EMP > infestors Ravens > infestors HSM > banelings If you can micro all that IN THEORY until ultras / broodlords are out you are golden. | ||
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eloist
United States1017 Posts
On October 21 2010 20:22 Ghad wrote: It blows my mind how underused ravens are for clearing creep. Instead of sacrificing a 300 mineral MULE to scan for creep tumors, you can use a 100m 200 gas Raven to detect them all day long. Also, are really 100/200 so incredibly expensive for a raven? An infestor is only 50 gas cheaper. Well, when banelings are in play, having more minerals over gas doesn't really buy you much. | ||
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ZappaSC
Denmark215 Posts
Raven + Ghost thats a LOT of gas. Plus no medivacs is goodbye bio. | ||
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baph
Poland30 Posts
On October 21 2010 21:49 trevf wrote: Ravens + dropships is epic combo. In a TvT one time on scrap station I was going 2 rax expand vs. 1/1/1 siege tnak viking. I barely held off their first push then macro'd up for a raven and 4 or 5 medivacs full of units. I'm loading my dudes up in my medivacs and my opponent scans right where I'm loading.. so obviously he knows a drop is ocming. So I unload, pretending I changing my plans. Then when the scan ends I load back up and said, "f it, im goin in." His vikings met my medivacs half way across but PDD saved the day and I was able to unload all my troops into his base and wraek havoc!!!!! thats super kewl dude, but were talking about TvZ | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
they are fine, ghosts aswell i dont like using ravens in early or midgame tho | ||
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terranghost
United States980 Posts
On October 21 2010 22:06 eloist wrote: Well, when banelings are in play, having more minerals over gas doesn't really buy you much. Really depends on what type of build you are going if you are heavy on the minerals or you zerg buddy has been doing good at worker harass the mules will be needed. After the first couple of mules a typically start saving some energy for scans. If gas is limiting my production and not minerals I will typically start saving energy sooner. In short if gas is your limiting factor then saving OC energy I would say is a good idea. If gas isnt your limiting factor than I would say get out the raven for detection so you can use more mules. | ||
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Nycaloth
147 Posts
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RoKetha
United States211 Posts
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/b/bf/Marauderafter.jpg/325px-Marauderafter.jpg) That's enough to kill a couple Zerglings or Banelings, but so is a tank shot--really, the spell is basically two tank shots on the same target with a slightly larger radius (at least against Zerg whose light units will be killed by either), which is horribly inefficient for 125 energy. Against mutas, if they are clumped, Thors deal the same guaranteed damage in two shots, and if they are not clumped, the spell is likely going to only hit the off-target mutas for 25 damage. | ||
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Thrombozyt
Germany1269 Posts
Also HSM does shit against magic box mutas, because the radius of the splash is the same as the one from the thor. So you bring one muta in the red and give 20 dmg to a few. Not worth it for sure. In general, HSM is rarely worth it over PDD or turret. As a damage ability, storm is way more efficient. Mainly because the affected radius is much better. Bring the radius up, then you can even lower the damage. | ||
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Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
On October 21 2010 22:14 RoKetha wrote: I think a lot of people here may be vastly overestimating the power of Seeker Missile. The splash radius on that thing is absolutely pathetic. Look at the visualization on Liquipedia: That's enough to kill a couple Zerglings or Banelings, but so is a tank shot--really, the spell is basically two tank shots on the same target with a slightly larger radius (at least against Zerg whose light units will be killed by either), which is horribly inefficient for 125 energy. Against mutas, if they are clumped, Thors deal the same guaranteed damage in two shots, and if they are not clumped, the spell is likely going to only hit the off-target mutas for 25 damage. HSM is strong IF IT HITS. the problem i have found (or advantage in my case since i play zerg) is that HSM is unbearably easy to avoid. HSM is so insanely slow that u can easily split up your army to reduce dmg or just run units away untill HSM runs out of time and duds out. splitting up ur army is the best method since it still alows ur army to keep atking if they are at an advantage. i dont know if anyone else has seen this but there is a way to easily tell which target the HSM is targeting because of how slow it is. because of this u can run that single unit out to avoid splash dmg of your own units. because of this the terrans usually have to get there ravens in close or sometimes near on top of the enemy army so that HSM hits the target faster which in turn puts the raven in danger. but this is just what i have noticed from terrans using HSM against me. its devastating as shit if the missle hits, but if u can avoid it u are fine which is fairly easy to do. especially as zerg since all units with the exception of hydras are relativly fast off creep and even faster on creep. HSM is damn good against broodlords and corruptors tho because of how slow they are. broodlords cant hope to outrun HSM, BUT you can still spread the broodlords out to reduce dmg fairly easily so ya... and HSM against banelings is kinda stupid... there a melee unit and they still do dmg when they die and are pretty damn fast with speed upgrade. so using HSM against banelings and lings is pretty pointless. as for PDD, well i think terrans should use this more often. anytime i get the rare occasion of a terran massing MMM +ravens and tanks i get devastated unless im going bling+ultra. PDD shuts down muta play fairly easily and makes hydras worthless. i dont know if PDD still doesnt block roach shots because last i checked it did not, but im sure they fixed that by now. but i guess i can understand why terrans dont use PDD against zerg much because most zerg go pure melee against terran with the only ranged unit being mutas. | ||
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dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
Unless HSM gets a rebuff to it's radius to make it useful, a decrease to its casting cost to make it worth the energy, or an increase to the casting range so you don't have to charge your Raven into the middle of the Zerg army to cast it I don't see why this ability would ever be used competitively. | ||
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