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On October 16 2010 21:36 Grond wrote:
The Terran changes only removed the free cheese wins, almost no effect on their overall game. The Medivac change was miniscule, on the order of 5%.
Demolishing the most common Terran opening and several cheeses (reactor hellions, BBS), and gutting reapers, was a rather huge change. Yes there were overreactions like "can't punish Zerg FE at all!", but it was still a very significant change.
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On October 16 2010 15:56 pedduck wrote:
Zergs are really stronger. I use to win 60-70%, now it is 40-50.
Cheers, it seems the patch did 'balance' stuff 
Seeing Drewbie vs Slush, Reapers are pretty much in and can be a headache for zergs.
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Could this be the best patch so far?
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I feel like it is very simple - reduce the cost of the void ray, and put the speed on the cyber core in order to make it an early to mid-game unit instead of a GARBAGE late game unit that has absolutely ZERO use in the game now.
It is too expensive to use early because it is so fragile and doesn't kill things quickly and if you lose it that is a huge hit to your early play, mid-game you need robo facility or temp archives to handle mass bio from zerg or terran so starport is useless mid-game now with how expensive VR and Carrier are (especially for what junk they are). And phoenix are situational.
They basically took away one of the powerful units that toss had and didn't replace it with anything or lower the cost or give it any benefit for use in 1v1.
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On October 16 2010 21:36 Grond wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 21:04 mati wrote:
So MLG Started...
ONE zerg player still alive on winner bracket (need to call his name?)
ONE zerg on loser bracket, LiquidRet (maybe a +1, not sure what happend between Pain.User and UNC-oRe.saMa who seems tied 1-1).
Lots of terran n protoss...
Yes i can see now what so manny people claim here... Zerg is clearly imba, protoss n terran got no fighting chance People were way overestimating the changes. The Terran changes only removed the free cheese wins, almost no effect on their overall game. The Medivac change was miniscule, on the order of 5%. Roach change while good is situational, doesn't make a big difference in large battles. The Void Ray change has by far the biggest ramifications. While removing the occasional cheese win it puts a huge dent in late game air power for Protoss. The Void Ray did approximately 50% more damage vs armored before the nerf.
Which means it'll be the end of people saying "why would I get a carrier when I can just get a void ray?"
Carriers should be noticeably more powerful than void rays now.
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On October 17 2010 01:12 TedJustice wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 21:36 Grond wrote:On October 16 2010 21:04 mati wrote:
So MLG Started...
ONE zerg player still alive on winner bracket (need to call his name?)
ONE zerg on loser bracket, LiquidRet (maybe a +1, not sure what happend between Pain.User and UNC-oRe.saMa who seems tied 1-1).
Lots of terran n protoss...
Yes i can see now what so manny people claim here... Zerg is clearly imba, protoss n terran got no fighting chance People were way overestimating the changes. The Terran changes only removed the free cheese wins, almost no effect on their overall game. The Medivac change was miniscule, on the order of 5%. Roach change while good is situational, doesn't make a big difference in large battles. The Void Ray change has by far the biggest ramifications. While removing the occasional cheese win it puts a huge dent in late game air power for Protoss. The Void Ray did approximately 50% more damage vs armored before the nerf. Which means it'll be the end of people saying "why would I get a carrier when I can just get a void ray?" Carriers should be noticeably more powerful than void rays now.
Perhaps, but then they need to make void rays cost effective. Either raise their HP, lower their cost to 200/100, or raise damage up. They suck as it is now.
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The medivac change has had such an impact in the game's I've been playing. It's quite severe.
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I like the Building Hp increases definitly !
now mauraders have a more difficult time focusing down a nex or hatch
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I wish they would just introduce a different armor type for buildings and stopped with tweaking numbers too much. It seems like Blizzard will take a lot of time trying to tweak the game for the next several years and then they'll do the same thing that happened in WC3 (I'm talking about changing the way it's played very drastically).
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you guys do realize that the medivac change means that vikings outrun medivacs now? way to make tvt more boring
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 16 2010 03:23 telfire wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 03:14 markim wrote:Why the hell is Blizzard basing this patch on lower leagues and team games? You start to wonder who's making these patches and what their grasp of the game is in terms of actual gameplay. I can see all those complaints on bnet forum are made by scrubs. Voidrays Really? you can't stop voidrays 1on1? If you're as good as you keep telling yourself you are, then it shouldn't be a problem. Unless you slack off on your scouting ala idra at GSL. Reapers At what point of the game do we usually see upgrade Reapers? Early, yes. Again, I can see a scrub getting reaper rushed by a good player doing placement matches. Depo before Rax Terran, Protos, and Zerg are 3 DIFFERENT races and deserves deviating mechanivs. Uh seriously, there's nothing wrong with this. I'm a protoss and we do this all the time uh duh Well why don't they change it so that evo before pool then huh? Well, young scrub, they won't because that would be ludicrous. + Show Spoiler +albeit the way it's going now, we'll just have to keep on complaining then it's bounf to happen. I won't touch on the unintended "double nerfs" that came with this. What?! Your claims that have no basis in reality. -Void Rays won a couple GSL games and a lot of other pro games. They are an EXTREMELY powerful unit once charged at ALL levels of play. Saying that they aren't good is just absolutely ridiculous. Someone once made a topic with some math claiming that a charged void ray was _THE_ most cost effective unit in the game, it lacked ANY unit that could kill it for less cost if it was already charged. I'm not sure if that's true as I have not run the math, but it's damn close. The pros are good at getting it charged and keeping it that way, and I think the Void Ray is such an interesting unit requiring careful micro. -Reapers were an effective strategy at the highest level against Zerg. Zerg has basically figured out how to beat it by now though, I think Hellions are the bigger issue. Still with good micro it is a powerful build, acting like only n00bs lose to it is elitist and ignorant. -Evo before pool doesn't make sense. Evo doesn't provide supply. The equivalent would be requiring a second overlord before pool, which you do anyway if you're not all-in. I wouldn't care if they did that, I never make a pool before 13 anyway. Just wait to see how it plays out. You have a hostile attitude about it all but your views on what strategies work are twisted, these things ARE powerful at the highest level of play. If you don't think they know what they are talking about, they have access to ALL the data of ALL games played, they can obviously SEE what the real problems are a lot better than some random forum scrub. I may be a gold player, but I am not speaking from my own experience. I watch a lot of pro games, I see a lot of strategies, and I know for a fact these things have been quite effective at the highest level of play.
Preface:
I'm not complaining about the patch itself, but rather where it was based off of.
I made that post condescendingly with a sort of sarcastic "surprise surprise" in mind.
-Void Rays won a couple GSL games
The only game I know of this was AnyproPrime vs oGsEnsnare
I haven't actually seen or read much of GSL1 so I'd like to know what the other games were.
And I don't mean P1 making minimal amount of voidrays and then roflstomping P2 with zealots/stalkers.
-Reapers were an effective strategy at the highest level against Zerg. Zerg has basically figured out how to beat it by now though, I think Hellions are the bigger issue. Still with good micro it is a powerful build, acting like only n00bs lose to it is elitist and ignorant.
If they have figured out how to deal with it, then why remove a viable option? Again because this patch is mostly based on lower tiers.
-Evo before pool doesn't make sense. Evo doesn't provide supply. The equivalent would be requiring a second overlord before pool, which you do anyway if you're not all-in. I wouldn't care if they did that, I never make a pool before 13 anyway.
Preface
+ Show Spoiler +
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On October 17 2010 01:12 TedJustice wrote:
Which means it'll be the end of people saying "why would I get a carrier when I can just get a void ray?"
Carriers should be noticeably more powerful than void rays now.
Its like picking between a big turd and a little turd
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United Kingdom12041 Posts
On October 17 2010 03:54 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 01:12 TedJustice wrote:
Which means it'll be the end of people saying "why would I get a carrier when I can just get a void ray?"
Carriers should be noticeably more powerful than void rays now. Its like picking between a big turd and a little turd
Carriers are very powerful, they even own vikings.
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1.2 = the heart of the swarm.
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On October 17 2010 04:12 DooMDash wrote:
1.2 = the heart of the swarm.
What? 1.2 comes at the end of the year and will be another buff Z and/or nerf P/T patch of course.
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I can bet Reapers will be re buffed on some later patch, maybe not next one, but im pretty sure it will come. After watching many MLG and play this coupple of days, now i think they over nerf it (and i play zerg myself, it isnt whining argument)... Maybe reduce the build time, or something...
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i don't understand the qq about the depo. it's not THAT huge. if they fast expand you can easily punish them. as a toss, i weep for the void ray nerf. it was nice knowing you void ray, and sc2. i might come back around when they start nefing the right fucking race, instead of the only one that was balanced , that stood a chance in all matchups and vice versa..
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On October 17 2010 06:33 Demarini wrote:
i don't understand the qq about the depo. it's not THAT huge. if they fast expand you can easily punish them. as a toss, i weep for the void ray nerf. it was nice knowing you void ray, and sc2. i might come back around when they start nefing the right fucking race, instead of the only one that was balanced , that stood a chance in all matchups and vice versa..
Watch the MLG, there is no chance to punish a good zerg for FEing
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On October 17 2010 06:46 Snowfield wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 06:33 Demarini wrote:
i don't understand the qq about the depo. it's not THAT huge. if they fast expand you can easily punish them. as a toss, i weep for the void ray nerf. it was nice knowing you void ray, and sc2. i might come back around when they start nefing the right fucking race, instead of the only one that was balanced , that stood a chance in all matchups and vice versa.. Watch the MLG, there is no chance to punish a good zerg for FEing
something ive become a fan of since start of this patch is to go 15cc :p if they always fe then im gonna start CC first, tbh its pretty fair econ in that
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EPT
