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Zerg Build Order optimizer. - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
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FrostedMiniWeet
Profile Joined July 2009
United States636 Posts
October 13 2010 05:22 GMT
#101
On October 13 2010 13:30 Chill wrote:
lol i like how you pretend this will singlehandedly destroy sc2 as an esport or something.


My thoughts exactly.
Almania
Profile Joined September 2010
145 Posts
October 13 2010 05:27 GMT
#102
It saddens me to see 10 pool beating overpool.
RifleCow
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada637 Posts
October 13 2010 05:31 GMT
#103
Yea you should add in some restrictions where I can say I want these units by this time, and these units at another time. Be like I want 2 roaches at 5:30 then eventually get 1 hatch 30 drones and lair. That would make it super useful, since you can tailor a build that would perfectly address the harrassment timings.
hohoho
NeSS1
Profile Joined April 2010
United States101 Posts
October 13 2010 05:32 GMT
#104
This build order optimizer is a phenomenal development. It adds dynamic to early game timing pushes. It can't be used for longer games, though, both because of harass and the early economy sacrifice to get out units. Any plans on posting it for download?
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 05:44:12
October 13 2010 05:37 GMT
#105
release it!!:D i doubt it would be that game-breaking effect as you thought in pro-scene, since the real dynamic play in tourneys are far more complicated than a software simulation can ever do. however, this software will be a great help for many casual gamers who is willing to spend some extra time to use it to improve gameplay rather than spending hundreds of hours to refine his BO. while obviously the hardcore sc fanatics are already spending days and nights to play the game like the pros, i think this tool will help them but again it wont be a HUGE difference. so please release it and enjoy people starting to call you a God!!! :D

as for an exercise for you, i'd like to know the quickest BO to make 5 mutas, the BO has to include at least 1 queen, 2 bases(with optimal drone count prior the mutas out), 2 spines, ling speed upgrade, and you need to make at least 3 pairs of lings before spire is finished. it would be super useful if you can do that out :p

on a serious note: just tell me the quickest BO to make 5 mutas+3lings, regardless all the conditions i said above.
is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
voss
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia146 Posts
October 13 2010 05:37 GMT
#106
On October 13 2010 13:36 Beef Noodles wrote:
When Sky Net takes over, Chill will eat those words


Yes. This program will not only ruin esports, but take over the entire world.

Except Madagascar. Aint no way to get there when something breaks out anywhere else in the world...
bovi
Profile Joined May 2010
Japan208 Posts
October 13 2010 05:38 GMT
#107
would love to see this. it may not be perfect with all the variables but it can certainly help in many many other ways.

like althought it cant do best eco with 7 roach. it can show you 7 Roach in 4:40. vs 7 Roach in 5:40 and show you how many extra drones you'd have with the latter build. or the reverse way, ask the program to design the fastest 7 Roach build with a minimum of 20 drones by the time the 7th roach hatches.

it would certainly help people improve.
Lomilar
Profile Joined July 2010
United States130 Posts
October 13 2010 05:39 GMT
#108
On October 13 2010 14:32 Chipotle wrote:
This build order optimizer is a phenomenal development. It adds dynamic to early game timing pushes. It can't be used for longer games, though, both because of harass and the early economy sacrifice to get out units. Any plans on posting it for download?


I have to make it suitable for non-Lomilar use. It has no UI right now, I made changes to code, then run it in a debugger. :-x

What flavor would you guys like it in?

Runnable program -- Will require Java 1.6, can run own build optimizations, but will consume computer's processing power for several hours to get a optimized build.

Web application -- Zero installs, will work slower, but will be able to have common repository of builds that it will run on. Won't eat computer, and will do something like email you when your build gets better.

Distributed program -- Zergling@Home (like Seti@Home). Like Web Application, takes longer. You can help optimize other people's builds, as well as your own.

Android application -- Can run on phone! Very slow if optimization is done on phone. Maybe combined with one of the online options.

Poll: What flavor would you like to see the build order optimizer in?

Runnable Application. I want to use my awesome computer for personal gain! (1188)
 
62%

Web Application. I want it to be the easiest thing to use, don't care if it is slow. (475)
 
25%

Android Application. I want to do it at work. Discreetly. In the bathroom. (174)
 
9%

Distributed Program. I don't care if it takes a while to get out, I want community support! (76)
 
4%

1913 total votes

Your vote: What flavor would you like to see the build order optimizer in?

(Vote): Runnable Application. I want to use my awesome computer for personal gain!
(Vote): Web Application. I want it to be the easiest thing to use, don't care if it is slow.
(Vote): Distributed Program. I don't care if it takes a while to get out, I want community support!
(Vote): Android Application. I want to do it at work. Discreetly. In the bathroom.



ApBuLLet
Profile Joined September 2010
United States604 Posts
October 13 2010 05:40 GMT
#109
The one problem I see with this is not the program itself, but abuse of the program. By this I don't mean pros going and optimizing their builds or whatever, but more of the average players RELYING on a program like this to come up with build orders for them.

This would significantly damper the creative, strategic aspect from the game and make it revolve more around mechanics and efficiency. Now I am not saying that mechanics are not important part of the game but at the same time, that's what it is, it is just a PART of the game. In order for the game to grow and evolve the way Brood War has, people need to have that creative, outside the box mind set.

So there's my two cents, but then again something like this is probably inevitable so maybe it should just be released. Just make it confusing to use or something so newbies don't bother trying it lol.
Railxp
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Hong Kong1313 Posts
October 13 2010 05:47 GMT
#110
sure this would be awesome.

for the people who understand how the game works, it will speed up the evolution of the metagame. In the hands of a pro, it will be awe inspiring.

in the hands of a noob, it wont affect that much because all you have to do is throw them off their build order with some harass.

either way it only benefits progress.
~\(。◕‿‿◕。)/~,,,,,,,,>
Bair
Profile Joined May 2010
United States698 Posts
October 13 2010 05:49 GMT
#111
Hah! Android Army FIGHTING!

Release it for the android. I would pay $1 for it.

Then use it in the bathroom...at my desk...during lunch...
In Roaches I Rust.
NeSS1
Profile Joined April 2010
United States101 Posts
October 13 2010 05:50 GMT
#112
On October 13 2010 14:40 ApBuLLet wrote:
The one problem I see with this is not the program itself, but abuse of the program. By this I don't mean pros going and optimizing their builds or whatever, but more of the average players RELYING on a program like this to come up with build orders for them.

This would significantly damper the creative, strategic aspect from the game and make it revolve more around mechanics and efficiency. Now I am not saying that mechanics are not important part of the game but at the same time, that's what it is, it is just a PART of the game. In order for the game to grow and evolve the way Brood War has, people need to have that creative, outside the box mind set.

So there's my two cents, but then again something like this is probably inevitable so maybe it should just be released. Just make it confusing to use or something so newbies don't bother trying it lol.

I disagree. Strategy will always be a part of any RTS game, but pro gaming should be, for the most part, about mechanics. As for creativity, a build order optimizer would create more possible openings. Also, on the pro scene, games would still reach the mid-late stage, where this program would not be applicable. In this stage of the game, strategy comes into play most, because more tech options are open to players.
Playguuu
Profile Joined April 2010
United States926 Posts
October 13 2010 06:00 GMT
#113
This looks good, though it's a bit minimalistic. This program isn't going to magically make anyone better, but give you a good starting framework for builds. It's still up to the player to perform them and figure out what they need to build in the meantime so they don't die, add that to the desired 'outcome', whatever that may be, such as X amount of lings or roaches, and hopefully the algorithms will develop enough to integrate what the other player could possibly have. It's certainly no substitute for actually playing and figuring those out on your own.

I'd say release it, maybe you can get some feedback and help for others.

Is this built in C?
I used to be just like you, then I took a sweetroll to the knee.
Lomilar
Profile Joined July 2010
United States130 Posts
October 13 2010 06:02 GMT
#114
On October 13 2010 15:00 Playguuu wrote:
This looks good, though it's a bit minimalistic. This program isn't going to magically make anyone better, but give you a good starting framework for builds. It's still up to the player to perform them and figure out what they need to build in the meantime so they don't die, add that to the desired 'outcome', whatever that may be, such as X amount of lings or roaches, and hopefully the algorithms will develop enough to integrate what the other player could possibly have. It's certainly no substitute for actually playing and figuring those out on your own.

I'd say release it, maybe you can get some feedback and help for others.

Is this built in C?


Java. Makes it flexible in how I want to distribute and run it. I could run it on a hadoop cluster. :-x
ApBuLLet
Profile Joined September 2010
United States604 Posts
October 13 2010 06:02 GMT
#115
On October 13 2010 14:50 Chipotle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2010 14:40 ApBuLLet wrote:
The one problem I see with this is not the program itself, but abuse of the program. By this I don't mean pros going and optimizing their builds or whatever, but more of the average players RELYING on a program like this to come up with build orders for them.

This would significantly damper the creative, strategic aspect from the game and make it revolve more around mechanics and efficiency. Now I am not saying that mechanics are not important part of the game but at the same time, that's what it is, it is just a PART of the game. In order for the game to grow and evolve the way Brood War has, people need to have that creative, outside the box mind set.

So there's my two cents, but then again something like this is probably inevitable so maybe it should just be released. Just make it confusing to use or something so newbies don't bother trying it lol.

I disagree. Strategy will always be a part of any RTS game, but pro gaming should be, for the most part, about mechanics. As for creativity, a build order optimizer would create more possible openings. Also, on the pro scene, games would still reach the mid-late stage, where this program would not be applicable. In this stage of the game, strategy comes into play most, because more tech options are open to players.


I just think it would put the average player (anyone from bronze to mid diamond) in the wrong mindset for an RTS game to really develop the way it should be. People already tend to rely on their set build orders and what not and they're more focused on finding the right build order to win rather than learning how to read their opponent and how to react appropriately etc., which are equally as important as good mechanics are.

However I do agree that it really wouldn't effect the pro scene at all, and if it does then it would probably be in a good way. But at the same time, someday there won't be a pro scene if new players aren't learning how to play the game the right way.
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
October 13 2010 06:17 GMT
#116
Dont be ridiculous with thinking how good your program is. Even for me its value is questionable. Pros with never use it.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
October 13 2010 06:26 GMT
#117
I assume this program will be able to work with Terran and Protoss too btw, right?
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Deleted_143
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia256 Posts
October 13 2010 06:29 GMT
#118
--- Nuked ---
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
October 13 2010 06:35 GMT
#119
On October 13 2010 15:29 Klesky wrote:
If it takes several hours to go through all the combinations and do random trials and take averages. All to determine with a high -probability- that it is 'optomized.'

Why would you write it in Java? It sounds like a very intensive operation.

C/ASM. Should bring that over-night down to a reasonable amount of time.



lol, java runs just as fast 99% of the time.
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
Thrasher5
Profile Joined October 2010
4 Posts
October 13 2010 06:37 GMT
#120
Ugh, I hate the sound of this. I like that SC2 is in its infancy, the diversity of builds and the creaticity are fun. The sooner the game is standardised the sooner the game will become boring.
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