EPTSC2 needs desperately be balanced fast. When SC came out there was not nearly the expectation of it being balanced.
The myth of a long patch history in scbw - Page 4
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
SC2 needs desperately be balanced fast. When SC came out there was not nearly the expectation of it being balanced. | ||
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soultwister
Poland80 Posts
Complain all you want, Blizzard will just let the game play out and then add a bunch of units that might fix it or might break it even more. All they care is that it's not completely broken and people still play. We're a while after release and no needed changes have been made, nor do we see any on the horizon, Blizzard just moved to Heart of the Swarm. By your logic we'll see balance 2 years after Legacy of the Void which might aswell be in 5 years, i wouldn't be suprised if that was the case. | ||
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Lexpar
1813 Posts
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Trap
United States395 Posts
On October 01 2010 08:17 Bair wrote: Additionally, there is no proof that they stayed. Since you seem to be attempting to shoot down what I have to say, I will leave the burden of proof to you. Even with names, we would not know the significance. We do not know who contributed what to the overall creation of SC/BW. And Dustin Browder jokes aside, we do not know who contributed what to the overall creation of SC2. For all we know, one guy had all the good ideas, and the rest just supported him. Or everyone had a fair share of ideas. You seem to be missing the point as to why this is not the same Blizzard. New people have arrived, senior people have left, new management is pulling the strings, and 10 years has changed everything in the gaming industry. If you really want you can go compare the developers in SC1/BW's credits: http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/starcraft-brood-war/credits http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/starcraft/credits Versus the credits of SC2: (warning, the link skips ahead to the credits but if you click earlier in the video there's some of the ending cinematics) + Show Spoiler + There's a lot of the design staff changed, and of course the original was made with a far smaller team, so it is a fair statement that the developers changed significantly between the two. | ||
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Perscienter
957 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:57 yomi wrote: I'm sorry, I don't understand your argument. It probably took so long, because they weren't in a hurry. I don't think that it was their priority to balance the Brood War. They didn't pursue it as a main goal, but only released a patch once in a while. The situation has changed, esports are more popular and everyone is expecting the game to be balanced out by Blizzard. It should be one of their main goals by now, because they want it to be established just as its predecessor. On October 01 2010 07:58 Day[9] wrote: I'm confused. You claim blizzard is being slow w/ patching, that patching Starcraft was easy so, therefore, SC2 should be easy. However, you present the fact that the major changes happened 6months+ after the game release, including the 4/18/01 Starcraft patch (3 years after release). I played Starcraft and Starcraft:Broodwar hardcore from the day they came out. 1.04 and 1.08 changed gigantic aspects of the game that deeply affected the way people played the game. They were awesome! The length of time it took to balance Starcraft: Broodwar is EXACTLY why I'm not concerned about SC2 at this point. Starcraft 2 has been out for 2 months. I wouldn't be surprised if a gigantic balance patch came out 6-8 months after release. They should have a much larger pool of tools at hand atm. They should be able to run through the balance process much more swiftly than in previous games. I don't want to wait 6 months after every addon, especially considering the huge amount of work, which is to be done (map imbas, position imbas, bugs, Zerg, underused units, lack of statistics etc.). | ||
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Bair
United States698 Posts
On October 01 2010 08:33 Trap wrote: If you really want you can go compare the developers in SC1/BW's credits: http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/starcraft-brood-war/credits http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/starcraft/credits Versus the credits of SC2: (warning, the link skips ahead to the credits but if you click earlier in the video there's some of the ending cinematics) + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Pu_j9yHCg#t=3m50s There's a lot of the design staff changed, and of course the original was made with a far smaller team, so it is a fair statement that the developers changed significantly between the two. Thank you for finding this, since I was admittedly too lazy to do so myself  | ||
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johngalt90
United States357 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:56 csfield wrote: The bonus damage counter system is stupid. Strategy should be more than rock/paper/scissors. ur an idiot. there also was dmg reduction in bw do you not remember explosive dmg from vultures tanks and dragoons. bw also revolved around abusing very powerful units (reaver, lurker, siege tank) these units werent hard countered by single units and by standards of starcraft 2 would be nerfed into a former shadow of themselves (the siege tank stands as a great example). armored and bonus vs armor etc. doesnt work much differently from the bw dmg functions | ||
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tacrats
476 Posts
On October 01 2010 08:21 The6357 wrote: we just need players like jaedong and Flash that can ignore the balance...so people can stfu about balance...constantly complaining about the balance instead of trying to explore different options is not gonna get u anywhere. yea some noname bw progamer who became known in early stage of sc2 complains about balance...big deal. sorry but millions of players dont have all day to sit there and explore different ways to get past obvious imbalances. newsflash, lots of progamers have spoken out about imbalances. you seem to have some sort of anger towards the one who did it first for some reason. | ||
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Wargizmo
Australia1237 Posts
There's a huge myth out there that Blizzard have perfectly balanced Broodwar Yet, Broodwar, when played on the original Blizzard ladder maps, is not particularly balanced. The actual balancing of the game is done almost 100% by the mapmakers and has been since 2001. | ||
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SiegeMode
United States206 Posts
On October 01 2010 08:47 tacrats wrote: sorry but millions of players dont have all day to sit there and explore different ways to get past obvious imbalances. newsflash, lots of progamers have spoken out about imbalances. you seem to have some sort of anger towards the one who did it first for some reason. Don't need to invent the wheel, just wait for better players to figure it out and imitate them, just like what happened in BW with all terran matchups, and then with PvZ and ZvT. Anyways, blizzard has announced intent to patch every few months so it's a moot point.. | ||
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Mastermind
Canada7096 Posts
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Ndugu
United States1078 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:46 Manifesto7 wrote: Did you guys read the same OP I did? He is simply saying that the statement "BW took a long time to patch" isn't supported by the patch notes. Yeah, he's saying that, in an effort to suggest that SCII needing time to be balanced isn't a reasonable excuse. Did you read the same OP I did? The argument he's making is completely, 100% invalid. Borderline trolling flame-bait thread attempting to start a Brood War vs Starcraft II battle. He says himself it took 2.5 years... well, I imagine Starcraft II will be vastly different in 2.5 years. If anything, the better argument would be that Blizzard doesn't do serous balance changes until expansions. Which makes some sense based on SC---> Brood War. But really, that's all ancient and barely relevant. | ||
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Ndugu
United States1078 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:55 Pokebunny wrote: Untrue, in brood war, counters could often be overcome by micro or positioning. SC2, not as much so - you always will have to switch to a new unit/composition. Roaches counter hellions, but pre-speed on open ground a roach will never kill a hellion with perfect micro. Countless examples of things like this, just like in BW. | ||
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TheArtOfFugue
Canada187 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On October 01 2010 08:39 johngalt90 wrote: ur an idiot. there also was dmg reduction in bw do you not remember explosive dmg from vultures tanks and dragoons. bw also revolved around abusing very powerful units (reaver, lurker, siege tank) these units werent hard countered by single units and by standards of starcraft 2 would be nerfed into a former shadow of themselves (the siege tank stands as a great example). armored and bonus vs armor etc. doesnt work much differently from the bw dmg functions You're joking, right? In BW, there were only 3 damage types. Normal did 100% against everything, explosive did 100% to large, 75% to medium and 50% to small, concussive did 25% to large, 50% to medium and 100% to small. Doing it the SC2 way, you could say that concussive had a 4x bonus to small compared to large. There are only 3 units I recall with concussive (vulture, firebat and ghost). 2 of these are rarely used in normal play. That means BW has virtually no units with more than a 2x damage modifier. How many units in SC2 deal more than 2x the damage against one type of armor compared to other types? Way too freaking many. | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
you also entirely neglected the fact that BW took several years to become balanced even after the last balance patch, which is a HUGE variable | ||
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Toxigen
United States390 Posts
On October 01 2010 08:28 soultwister wrote: Complain all you want, Blizzard will just let the game play out and then add a bunch of units that might fix it or might break it even more. All they care is that it's not completely broken and people still play. We're a while after release and no needed changes have been made, nor do we see any on the horizon, Blizzard just moved to Heart of the Swarm. What?! They made an attempt to fix reaper and proxy-gate imbalance. They also recognized that Terran had no real late game answer to ultralisks and reduced their damage. The game's only been out for 2 months and already they're patching for balance's sake. No changes on the horizon either? Considering how quickly they fixed the ultralisk splash bug on buildings arising from the headbutt removal, I'd say they're actively watching how balance is unfolding. Broodwar is balanced. War3 TFT is pretty well balanced (it's harder with 4 races!). SC2 is their e-sport flagship. I'd be surprised if they left it unbalanced for no good reason after LotV hits. | ||
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Sadist
United States7220 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:56 csfield wrote: The bonus damage counter system is stupid. Strategy should be more than rock/paper/scissors. I agree with this completely. I know bonus damage is essentially the same as taking damage away in bw, but the way the game is set up pisses me off  . Unit positioning doesnt seem to matter much anymore. Instead its manual targeting and hard counters. That and you have tons of units that dont shoot air AND ground as opposed to in bw. Seems like most only shoot one or the other.Getting rid of moving shots sucks too. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On October 01 2010 09:25 andrewlt wrote: You're joking, right? In BW, there were only 3 damage types. Normal did 100% against everything, explosive did 100% to large, 75% to medium and 50% to small, concussive did 25% to large, 50% to medium and 100% to small. Doing it the SC2 way, you could say that concussive had a 4x bonus to small compared to large. There are only 3 units I recall with concussive (vulture, firebat and ghost). 2 of these are rarely used in normal play. That means BW has virtually no units with more than a 2x damage modifier. How many units in SC2 deal more than 2x the damage against one type of armor compared to other types? Way too freaking many. Agree. Starcraft 2 has way to many hard Counters. Units seem to die very quickly. The current system of Light and Armored makes the game dynamics to limited. To solve this i think blizzard should not label every unit Armored or light. For example the hydra. This way things aren't overly owned. And Blue flame is way strong. Especially against lings. Roasting 50 lings is absurd. Every see a vulture mine even do that? | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
chris sigaty says "a year or longer" patch 1.8 came after 2 and a half years. whats your point? | ||
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