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KaiserJohan
Sweden1808 Posts
On September 27 2010 08:14 Honeybadger wrote: Way too weak a unit. only worth it to counter banshee harass. Nothing else. God forbid the race with the most map control (OL positioning, creep, xelnaga twrs) and most mobility (muta/ling) should be able to spot and react to drops! P would have a harder time than Z stopping drops. | ||
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lulumadbro
United States6 Posts
On September 27 2010 09:02 KaiserJohan wrote: God forbid the race with the most map control (OL positioning, creep, xelnaga twrs) and most mobility (muta/ling) should be able to spot and react to drops! P would have a harder time than Z stopping drops. Do you have down syndrome  ?User was banned for this post. | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On September 27 2010 09:02 KaiserJohan wrote: God forbid the race with the most map control (OL positioning, creep, xelnaga twrs) and most mobility (muta/ling) should be able to spot and react to drops! P would have a harder time than Z stopping drops. So blink + observer is harder to use against drops? | ||
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Rice
United States1332 Posts
On September 27 2010 09:02 KaiserJohan wrote: God forbid the race with the most map control (OL positioning, creep, xelnaga twrs) and most mobility (muta/ling) should be able to spot and react to drops! P would have a harder time than Z stopping drops. xel naga towers are a zerg only game mechanic? | ||
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
On September 27 2010 09:02 KaiserJohan wrote: God forbid the race with the most map control (OL positioning, creep, xelnaga twrs) and most mobility (muta/ling) should be able to spot and react to drops! P would have a harder time than Z stopping drops. Vision acquired through OL positioning and Creep (both of which are easily dispatched) are not the same thing as map control. Also, I think it's pretty well known that the concept of Zerg superiority in mobility is much more of an assumption based on their Brood War characteristics than it is a truth in Starcraft 2. While this doesn't necessarily imply that the Zerg is at a disadvantage in this department, I think it's clear that the Terran and the Protoss are actually just as mobile if not more so in many practical games. Personally, I feel like the Creep mechanic, while a creative idea, has really ruined the mobility of the Zerg and contributed to forcing them into playing a much more defensive early/mid game than in Brood War. While this by itself isn't inherently bad, I do believe that they do lack the type of units required to play this style as effectively. Personally, given the current state of game balance, I'm not entirely suprised if there are competitive gamers that are considering a change of race if only for the short term. These players stake their livelihoods on getting results, not maintaining some sort of sentimental attachment or loyalty or any race or playstyle. | ||
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Zog
57 Posts
Blizzard shouldn't be bullied into making huge changes by Gamers threatening to switch races, no matter how good they are. If Cool switches i bet he regrets it when Zerg is the FOTM for most OP race in the future.. Which has been predicted by many pro gamers like Day[9] and Artosis.. They shouldn't be bullied but they shouldn't discard their warnings either. They might really switch to T, though I don't think they're desperate enough atm. The ultralisk "bug" may be the little boon that convinces them to continue (even if it's a horrible buff to Z late game, which was not a problem anyway, to counter a horribly broken PF). Cool said he will stick to Z thanks to this bug in his last interview. Also, I fail to see the problem for a former Z pro to switch back to Z for the FOTM. And since when has Day9 been a pro player ? Never seen him in any tournament. | ||
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Raiznhell
Canada786 Posts
On September 27 2010 09:15 Rice wrote: xel naga towers are a zerg only game mechanic? you guys are blatently disagreeing with the guy out of spite without thinking about it. blink stalkers whether it may or may not be easier to use than muta/ling is beside the point as mutas can simply pick off dropships enroute even while not over or near land area. the point was that muta/ling is more mobile and given that zerglings are redonculously fast and mutas can fly thats clearly correct. and the xel naga towers bit is obviously not a zerg only mechanic but if you take a second and think about it it's alot easier for zerg to have a scout there at all times as zerglings are really fast/can burrow/only cost 25 minerals each and if they discover someone else taking the tower they can simply destroy whatever drove the zergling away and place another one there without wasting much. edit: my actual opinion on the whole matter is that the whole zergs switching races thing is way overblown and i think sometimes done for just attention as nobody really actually switches -_- what i think is that you should just pick a race that you like for simply like what you think is cool. for example i play terran (i play zerg on the side so plz dont just bash me cuz i play terran) because back when brood war came out i liked the whole badass attitudes and all the metal and the explosive power that came with playing terran. i didnt like it becaus eof any particular style of play like leapfrogging and turtleing and such i simply liked their style in general artistically and lore wise and such. yeah i became adapted to the whole slow push style terran always had because i just really liked the race. now i was a lil pissed when i realized terran doesnt really do the whole slow push thing anymore because of marauders making the terran play sort of the way protoss did in Brood War comparing dragoons to marauders of course but i still just liekd the race and stuck with it even when it was the down race and now when its the up race and everyone just hates on terrans that win. yeha i get that theres money on the line in the cases of dimaga and cool but blizzard is in the middle of balancing the game as let's be honest this game is way more wonky and weirder than starcraft and every single lil change throws things off a ton. it's not their fault that cool or anyone is competeing already and for HUGE prizes like the GSL grand prize. if theres obvious imbalances why is there even tournaments with that kinda money being set up? me personally i dont thing there is any huge imbalances depending on how the game sways ive seen some good zergs completely demolish good terrans and then continue to call terran imba? sure thats there opinion but you dont gotta make a whole rage post about switching races and fuel all the average joe players that play zerg to start whinning like crazy even tho they play at a level that doesnt matter as theres no money at stake and its just a hobby/ fun activity and the imbalances are pretty slight at that. i mean banelings own light units ultras own armored unit and mutas are the scariest things when there are enough. have fun with them. cool has been owning in the gsl with banelinsg and mutas and that style is all over the ladder and is having great success so that plus the post beng about dropships makes me think he was just raging at a game he recently lost and vented and is not actually gunna officially change races. which he isn't as of his latest interview but still honestly dropships = overlord with upgrade = warp prism so? plus zerg has nydus worms which are like the arbiter's recall given to the zerg. simply a rage post by a pro gamer who probably recently got dropped at all of his expos at once which takes alot of skill to micro 3 or 4 different squads in 3 or 4 different places at once. pretty sure looking at sc1 zerg was invincible up until after the expansion plus several patches. yeah sc2 is already starting out with a pro scene so the balance will be solved alot sooner but sc2 is alot weirder in terms of unit design than sc1 and has a hard to balance damage system. it will not be insta balanced and people still played terran back int he old days when it was almost impossible to win with them until BoxeR showed us the way . TL;DR just play the race that simply represents you in whatever way or simething you like and dont just go for what may temporarily cash you a couple of pointless and almost meaningless wins on the ladder. as for the pros i find the fact that they're competeing in high money tournaments odd if there is "clear imbalances" they shouldn't expect to win tournaments this early on on a completely even footing when dealing with a weirdish game like starcraft 2. | ||
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kariido
Saudi Arabia179 Posts
On September 27 2010 09:29 Zog wrote: They shouldn't be bullied but they shouldn't discard their warnings either. They might really switch to T, though I don't think they're desperate enough atm. The ultralisk "bug" may be the little boon that convinces them to continue (even if it's a horrible buff to Z late game, which was not a problem anyway, to counter a horribly broken PF). Cool said he will stick to Z thanks to this bug in his last interview. Also, I fail to see the problem for a former Z pro to switch back to Z for the FOTM. And since when has Day9 been a pro player ? Never seen him in any tournament. New to the scene are we? Day9 is a pro BW player. He's an A/A+ player on ICCUP. | ||
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vnlegend
United States1389 Posts
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SlowBlink
United States102 Posts
On September 27 2010 09:29 Zog wrote: Also, I fail to see the problem for a former Z pro to switch back to Z for the FOTM. And since when has Day9 been a pro player ? Never seen him in any tournament. Day9 was an A+ zerg on ICCUP in BW (highest you can go without being #1) , it only makes sense that he has somewhat of a grasp in sc2 (and he now plays random). Also saying that zerg is the most mobile race is laughable. They have 2 mobile units, zerglings and mutalisks. Vikings are just as mobile as mutas, so are phoenixes. Stimmed marine+marauders are pretty damn close to zergling speed, and blink stalkers are just as fast as those two. How often do you see a zerg GI unit (hydralisk) pushing all the way across the map? They're slower a midget on a unicycle. | ||
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starcraft911
Korea (South)1263 Posts
New to the scene are we? Day9 is a pro BW player. He's an A/A+ player on ICCUP. I thought it was pretty funny when I was watching one of the GSL games and tasteless referred to himself and artosis as pro gamers. The meaning of a "pro" gamer certainly has fallen hard. By his deffinition I and everyone I custom would be on that level. In my mind pros for BW were the koreans who regularly competed i.e. osl/msl. "pro gamer" is becoming one of those terms that has lost its meaning like metagame. | ||
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
On September 27 2010 09:47 starcraft911 wrote: Kinda funny that despite zerg being underpowered he keeps winning in glorious fashion. Neither of his 3 matches vs TOP were glorious | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On September 27 2010 09:49 Fa1nT wrote: Neither of his 3 matches vs TOP were glorious Game 1 was pretty good. I prefer watching Checkprime for zerg awesomeness. He is so ingenious with his play. | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On September 27 2010 09:38 kariido wrote: New to the scene are we? Day9 is a pro BW player. Are you new to the scene? Day was never a professional like Giyom, Elky, the Hexatron guys and Idra were. He's an A/A+ player on ICCUP. I don't recall Day being among the handful of non-koreans who could sustain ranks that high. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
 I wonder what Blizzard thinks of all this. | ||
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crw
Canada70 Posts
On September 27 2010 10:09 Subversion wrote: This is just so sad I wonder what Blizzard thinks of all this. they don't think because they are clueless. | ||
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Raiznhell
Canada786 Posts
On September 27 2010 10:01 Mindcrime wrote: Are you new to the scene? Day was never a professional like Giyom, Elky, the Hexatron guys and Idra were. I don't recall Day being among the handful of non-koreans who could sustain ranks that high. Day9 is more pro that a majority of players out there and thats enough to make his thoughts on the game probable but Day9's main point is not to babble about balance and such but more to just keep on fighting and to try and adapt and to just be a better gamer. thats the whole point of the daily. He does alot of brainstorming and clear cut thinking to try and solve problems he has when playing and shares his thoguht that is all. and the fact that his latest opinion is that alot of people will thing protoss will be the strong race in the near future is matched by alot of the korean scene from what artosis and tasteless say is enough to prove he has as much game knowledge as they probably do there. Day9 also didn't drop school to play starcraft literally all day like those guys do i mean lol he obviously plays alot but not as much as those pros. i bet if Day9 just abandoned school and play 24/7 he could be as good as they are. he might even very well be as good as they are and just doesnt compete and opts more for the community side of things rather than the competeters side. but i do agree with you however that Cool's stunt was not a very cool one at that. but he probably just had a recent loss and vented on the internet and this kind of blow-up is what happens when a famous type person vents ont he internet. hopefully int he future he will have a bit more responsability when dealing with things. however cool is a very talented player and he's busting nuts in the GSL using zerg so i highly doubt he meant what he said. i doubt most peoples posts on the internet are anythign they meant to say. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On September 27 2010 10:01 Mindcrime wrote: Are you new to the scene? Day was never a professional like Giyom, Elky, the Hexatron guys and Idra were. I don't recall Day being among the handful of non-koreans who could sustain ranks that high. http://day9tv.blip.tv/ High level commentary on competitive Starcraft matches from an 11-year veteran and top player. Day[9] has been rated A+/A on ICCUP/PGT on multiple accounts over multiple seasons, has qualified for the WCG USA finals 7 times, has qualified for the WCG Grand Finals 3 times, and won the Pan American Championship in 2007. In Starcraft 2 Day[9] is a top rated diamond player as random. | ||
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securedhigh
Germany53 Posts
nahh... they now it... but gives a shit about it | ||
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skirmisheR
Sweden451 Posts
On September 27 2010 10:09 Subversion wrote: This is just so sad I wonder what Blizzard thinks of all this. They're actually thinking "Zerg is just more complex than T or P, but there is no balance issues", wasn't that what that Chris guy said about 1.2? Sometimes you wonder wtf is going on | ||
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