EPTIt's already been proven Cool was just trolling you guys since a few days ago. I come back and there is still so much whine.
Fruitseller (Cool) may change his race in GSL #2 - Page 77
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wxwx
527 Posts
It's already been proven Cool was just trolling you guys since a few days ago. I come back and there is still so much whine. | ||
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archon256
United States363 Posts
On September 28 2010 01:19 winternova wrote: I just play straight to infestors now. Infestor pit pops out faster than spire, and if you research burrow when you land the pit you get burrow when your first infestor pops (around 8:30). Timing is key, you can get more harras out of infestors, and they break turtles like a hot knife if you reach critical mass. Just curious, but how do you go on the offensive with Infestors vs. a Terran who is sitting in his base building up a big push? I normally go Muta/Ling/Baneling and I can send in the Muta to kill Drones/MULEs, force the Terran to make Turrets, Marines and Thors, as well as reducing the number of hellions, tanks and marauders he has (by sniping them) and will get (since he'll prefer anti-air). | ||
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winternova
48 Posts
It all comes down to hitting the terran hard right before he can get his army up. Sometimes you just hide infestors round the corner, and when the big deathball (last game was 3 thors + tank + marines) leaves the base, when he's halfway accross the map and you start spamming infested terran, he's like, oh shoot, do I move my thors back or go forward... if he goes forward he has a huge amount of lings to hit, with wave after wave coming in. Had 75% success rate with this build against all races. Edit: and it is more cost effective than muta/ling, as Mutas are 100/100 your lings cost more. With Infestors you are 100/200 so you get 4 extra lings per infestor. And IT can jump up ramps right next to siege tanks =) Also, because of the huge mineral advantage, you want an extra hatch in your main and preferbly an expansion (3 hatch at that point) by 30 supply. Because you have the extra hatch, you can have full drop/speed tech by 11 mins (it will cost you an infestor or 2 tho). IT at the front, dropped lings at the back?... at about the same time your typical muta harras would have reached critcal mass or been countered. 2 infestors with 75+ energy can take out a mineral line. 3 infestors with 75+ energy can take out a nexus/CC. | ||
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Phrencys
Canada270 Posts
It's the zerg timings that seem off. This is largely due to how they chose to balance roaches and hydras. IMO Hydra should've remained hatch tech, with roaches coming later (lair) as a tanking unit. Hydra could then be closer to its sc1 sister in terms of cost and dps, while giving roaches more "oomph" in the form of hardened shell and/or linear attack like hellions. Increasing their cost to 100/100 in the process. The fact that Zerg is the only race without a non-gimmicky answer to early air certainly doesn't help. The fact that both zerg early units are easily kited doesn't help. The fact that zerg can only properly work on creep early on doesn't help. The fact that other races can just easily wall-off any early aggression (while zerg cannot) doesn't help their cause either. Those are zerg's weaknesses early on, what are their advantages? | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On September 28 2010 03:13 Phrencys wrote: It's not that zergs don't have the right amount of units, imo. It's the zerg timings that seem off. This is largely due to how they chose to balance roaches and hydras. IMO Hydra should've remained hatch tech, with roaches coming later (lair) as a tanking unit. Hydra could then be closer to its sc1 sister in terms of cost and dps, while giving roaches more "oomph" in the form of hardened shell and/or linear attack like hellions. Increasing their cost to 100/100 in the process. The fact that Zerg is the only race without a non-gimmicky answer to early air certainly doesn't help. The fact that both zerg early units are easily kited doesn't help. The fact that zerg can only properly work on creep early on doesn't help. The fact that other races can just easily wall-off any early aggression (while zerg cannot) doesn't help their cause either. Those are zerg's weaknesses early on, what are their advantages? Having Hydras at tier 1 instead of roaches may introduce even more vulnerability to hellion harass. That's the trouble with just switching them. | ||
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winternova
48 Posts
Everyone plays mutas... Mutas are BW! So stop building them! use infestors until we get lurkers, then muta/lurker/ling will be a decent combo. I'll admit, muta harassment is awesome in SC2, but it gets countered quickly, and kiting off 2-3scv with 3-5 mutas is not worth it when you can get 2-3 infestors out quicker and take out an entire mineral line + CC. | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On September 28 2010 03:29 winternova wrote: quick tech switching, quick at expanding/fully saturating that expansion... Everyone plays mutas... Mutas are BW! So stop building them! use infestors until we get lurkers, then muta/lurker/ling will be a decent combo. I'll admit, muta harassment is awesome in SC2, but it gets countered quickly, and kiting off 2-3scv with 3-5 mutas is not worth it when you can get 2-3 infestors out quicker and take out an entire mineral line + CC. Without mutas, zerg has a much harder time controlling the map. You can't just sit outside his base as zerg because of mobility considerations. Zerglings and mutas can get to your expos fast, while roaches take longer, and hydras are laughable off creep. Not to mention, you can't babysit a tank terran or colossus toss. *edit* wrote colossus zerg oddly. | ||
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nuber4life
United States17 Posts
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winternova
48 Posts
Without mutas, zerg has a much harder time controlling the map. You can't just sit outside his base as zerg because of mobility considerations. Zerglings and mutas can get to your expos fast, while roaches take longer, and hydras are laughable off creep. Not to mention, you can't babysit a tank terran or colossus toss. *edit* wrote colossus zerg oddly. You won't need map control, I've taken out a 2 base terran with a fully saturated expo with 1 base as zerg (he had it in the hidden expansion area). And it's actually easier to maintain control over the map as your infestors are constantly keeping his army inside his base while you are free to expand. And it's much cheaper than mutas as you just spend energy and get an extra couple lings for you gas expense. Edit: usually you end the game under 10 minutes as vP (no wall, take out mineral line) or vT (they push out or expand and you get inside to hit the mineral line). Also extra hatch gives you drop tech quicker and infestor drops behind mineral line are also effective. and 10 infestors sitting outside a Terran base can keep his army down to nothing if you keep using Infested Terran up the ramp. So you just expo up and overwhelm. | ||
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winternova
48 Posts
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stroggos
New Zealand1543 Posts
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winternova
48 Posts
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Gentso
United States2218 Posts
On September 28 2010 03:58 winternova wrote: oh, and infestor using infested terran is the hard counter for Seige tanks. It's been tried and it doesn't work. Is that your theory talking? You wrong. | ||
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winternova
48 Posts
and you are saying that 50-75 energy to take out a seige tank is a bad exchange? Sounds like a pretty hard counter to me 0mins vs seige tank cost? | ||
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maliceee
United States634 Posts
On September 27 2010 21:58 foxmeep wrote: LOL, you can't even count to 5 dude how can you count units up to 11? Edit: I've been all for it since beta, I really want to see the creep mechanic changed/removed. Zerg needs to play more like it did in BW. HAHA, i didn't catch that. Chronicle, I gotta say that was one of the dumbest things I've ever read. | ||
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thehitman
1105 Posts
Blizzard needs to fix Zerg and fix them fast. They can't be saying there is no Zerg imbalance, when all top Zerg players are switching, whining and loosing all the time. | ||
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cnas
Sweden640 Posts
On September 28 2010 01:29 wxwx wrote: when is the whining here gonna stop. My estimation: By the end of this year. | ||
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SlyinZ
France199 Posts
That's not zerg that are up, its that zerg players dont know how to play. i love blizzard humor...or not | ||
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St. Fu
United States75 Posts
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Mosin
United States7 Posts
On September 27 2010 09:02 KaiserJohan wrote: God forbid the race with the most map control (OL positioning, creep, xelnaga twrs) and most mobility (muta/ling) should be able to spot and react to drops! P would have a harder time than Z stopping drops. Maybe you should have tried zerg beforehand, so I didn't have to register. Medivac comes out before muta. Otherwise zergs may have played Kulas, Delta and LT more. So what you have is lings + roaches + queen. Hellion drop? gg lings. MM ball sniping queen? hello banshee. mara drop? gg roaches and hatchery. Mix of three? well I don't know. It looks like cool hasn't found answer to that yet. Maybe you can help him out. | ||
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