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On September 24 2010 04:15 kickinhead wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 04:10 Lefnui wrote:On September 24 2010 04:09 kickinhead wrote:On September 24 2010 04:06 Endorsed wrote:On September 24 2010 04:05 Toxigen wrote:On September 24 2010 02:25 Odds wrote:
I really don't understand Blizzard's intense fear of somehow making Zerg 'too strong'. Is it somehow worse than having either of the other races far too strong- as is currently the case with Terran? This isn't what Blizzard fears. Blizzard fears that they'll make a race "underpowered" in every patch cycle. Let's say that they come out with a huge balance patch in 1.2. This patch, for the sake of argument, magically fixes all Zerg's issues with Terran with a roach buff. But since Zerg doesn't have the same sorts of issues with Protoss as they do with Terran, let's say that Zerg is slightly overtuned now against Protoss in the early/midgame. So, Blizzard makes a couple minor changes to Protoss in 1.3 to give Protoss parity with Zerg by making immortals easier to get in larger numbers earlier to fight off the "improved" 1.2 roaches. But now, immortals are too easy to get and COMPLETELY nullify marauder pushes. Overly effective 1.3 zealot/immortal timing pushes now become standard PvT and Terran is now UP v Protoss even though they've finally become balanced against Zerg in 1.2 ... and around and around it goes. Indeed, people need to realize how FUCKING HARD it is to balance a RTS. There's a reason only Blizzard has succeeded at delivering good RTS games. In BW it was Luck and WC3 is neither balanced nor good..... Clearly you know nothing about WC3. Played thousands of games but what do I know... Played UD - why do I have such bad luck with races?
cause blizzard don't like the creepy races =X
I was also playing UD... switched to Elves
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yo folks, i've heard zerg is op in korea!
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On September 24 2010 04:15 Shikyo wrote:
Try to increase larvae spawning time by 25%. Should help with the earlygame quite abit.
And possibly fuck up mid and late game because of it. Or am i missing something here? 
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On September 24 2010 04:17 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 04:11 heishe wrote:
Infestor play is completely useless and relies on the opponents mistakes. No infestor will get inside a Terran base unless the Terran makes mistakes and have fun with good fungal growth on Thors and Tanks. If the Zerg makes a lot of infestors, all the Terran has to do is a solid mech mix and it's gg, since they're insanely gas heavy, even more so if someone is stupid enough to research Neural Parasite.
Mass Infestor play is nothing but gimmicks. It only works if you catch your opponent completely off guard (just like Nydus and Roach Burrow plays etc.), which might happen now since nobody uses it, but once it becomes somewhat more common it will be another useless strat that lived a short live, just like sens 1 base muta etc.
And by the way, unless you park an infestor in every base you have and have perfect control over all of them once the Terran shift-drops in 3 bases they won't stop anything.
btw it's pretty ignorant to assume that all Zerg pro's out there ignore infestors and that TLO is somehow the only one who magically recognizes their godly usefulness. I'm rather sure quite the contrary is the case. Most of them probably played around a lot with the infestor and came to the same conclusion I posted here. I completely and wholeheartily disagree. MASS infestor may suck yes. but infestors are as important as defilers were.
I agree: Infestors may get you a few surprise-wins, but as a solid BO, I wouldn't use them...
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United Kingdom12058 Posts
My idea of how to stop people complaining about Marauder Drops
Don't give buildings an armor type.
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On September 24 2010 04:17 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 04:11 heishe wrote:
Infestor play is completely useless and relies on the opponents mistakes. No infestor will get inside a Terran base unless the Terran makes mistakes and have fun with good fungal growth on Thors and Tanks. If the Zerg makes a lot of infestors, all the Terran has to do is a solid mech mix and it's gg, since they're insanely gas heavy, even more so if someone is stupid enough to research Neural Parasite.
Mass Infestor play is nothing but gimmicks. It only works if you catch your opponent completely off guard (just like Nydus and Roach Burrow plays etc.), which might happen now since nobody uses it, but once it becomes somewhat more common it will be another useless strat that lived a short live, just like sens 1 base muta etc.
And by the way, unless you park an infestor in every base you have and have perfect control over all of them once the Terran shift-drops in 3 bases they won't stop anything.
btw it's pretty ignorant to assume that all Zerg pro's out there ignore infestors and that TLO is somehow the only one who magically recognizes their godly usefulness. I'm rather sure quite the contrary is the case. Most of them probably played around a lot with the infestor and came to the same conclusion I posted here. I completely and wholeheartily disagree. MASS infestor may suck yes. but infestors are as important as defilers were.
How dare you compare infestors to defilers? Its like comparing zergling and ultralisk.
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On September 24 2010 04:17 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 04:11 heishe wrote:
Infestor play is completely useless and relies on the opponents mistakes. No infestor will get inside a Terran base unless the Terran makes mistakes and have fun with good fungal growth on Thors and Tanks. If the Zerg makes a lot of infestors, all the Terran has to do is a solid mech mix and it's gg, since they're insanely gas heavy, even more so if someone is stupid enough to research Neural Parasite.
Mass Infestor play is nothing but gimmicks. It only works if you catch your opponent completely off guard (just like Nydus and Roach Burrow plays etc.), which might happen now since nobody uses it, but once it becomes somewhat more common it will be another useless strat that lived a short live, just like sens 1 base muta etc.
And by the way, unless you park an infestor in every base you have and have perfect control over all of them once the Terran shift-drops in 3 bases they won't stop anything.
btw it's pretty ignorant to assume that all Zerg pro's out there ignore infestors and that TLO is somehow the only one who magically recognizes their godly usefulness. I'm rather sure quite the contrary is the case. Most of them probably played around a lot with the infestor and came to the same conclusion I posted here. I completely and wholeheartily disagree. MASS infestor may suck yes. but infestors are as important as defilers were.
If you seriously believe that you must either be on copper league, have no clue about Zerg at all or have no clue about SC1 at all. I wish I could break walls with infestors.
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its pretty obvious from the start if you want to enjoy or be actually sucessful in the game you either play zerg and teamgames or T/P and 1v1. team games obv. not an option for a pro so i guess he just needs to flip a coin to decide which one he will take but as it is now, T is still the best bet tho
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On September 24 2010 04:05 Toxigen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 02:25 Odds wrote:
I really don't understand Blizzard's intense fear of somehow making Zerg 'too strong'. Is it somehow worse than having either of the other races far too strong- as is currently the case with Terran? This isn't what Blizzard fears. Blizzard fears that they'll make a race "underpowered" in every patch cycle. Let's say that they come out with a huge balance patch in 1.2. This patch, for the sake of argument, magically fixes all Zerg's issues with Terran with a roach buff. But since Zerg doesn't have the same sorts of issues with Protoss as they do with Terran, let's say that Zerg is slightly overtuned now against Protoss in the early/midgame. So, Blizzard makes a couple minor changes to Protoss in 1.3 to give Protoss parity with Zerg by making immortals easier to get in larger numbers earlier to fight off the "improved" 1.2 roaches. But now, immortals are too easy to get and COMPLETELY nullify marauder pushes. Overly effective 1.3 zealot/immortal timing pushes now become standard PvT and Terran is now UP v Protoss even though they've finally become balanced against Zerg in 1.2 ... and around and around it goes.
well, BW was never balanced. BW just had a lot of very strong counterable alternatives for all races, which left it open for each player to "play poker" and get inside the minds of their opponents.
Right now, Zerg doesn't have very many alternatives / initiatives, nor scouting. And Terran has a lot. It is easy to just count the amount of options for Zerg compared to the others, and see how unbalanced the game is.
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I think that there are things TLO does that other zergs should do.
Do you mean the fact he switched to Terran?
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On September 24 2010 04:10 Lefnui wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 04:09 kickinhead wrote:On September 24 2010 04:06 Endorsed wrote:On September 24 2010 04:05 Toxigen wrote:On September 24 2010 02:25 Odds wrote:
I really don't understand Blizzard's intense fear of somehow making Zerg 'too strong'. Is it somehow worse than having either of the other races far too strong- as is currently the case with Terran? This isn't what Blizzard fears. Blizzard fears that they'll make a race "underpowered" in every patch cycle. Let's say that they come out with a huge balance patch in 1.2. This patch, for the sake of argument, magically fixes all Zerg's issues with Terran with a roach buff. But since Zerg doesn't have the same sorts of issues with Protoss as they do with Terran, let's say that Zerg is slightly overtuned now against Protoss in the early/midgame. So, Blizzard makes a couple minor changes to Protoss in 1.3 to give Protoss parity with Zerg by making immortals easier to get in larger numbers earlier to fight off the "improved" 1.2 roaches. But now, immortals are too easy to get and COMPLETELY nullify marauder pushes. Overly effective 1.3 zealot/immortal timing pushes now become standard PvT and Terran is now UP v Protoss even though they've finally become balanced against Zerg in 1.2 ... and around and around it goes. Indeed, people need to realize how FUCKING HARD it is to balance a RTS. There's a reason only Blizzard has succeeded at delivering good RTS games. In BW it was Luck and WC3 is neither balanced nor good..... Clearly you know nothing about WC3.
8 years after WC3 was released and every match-up isn't balanced.
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On September 24 2010 04:19 Grettin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 04:15 Shikyo wrote:
Try to increase larvae spawning time by 25%. Should help with the earlygame quite abit. And possibly fuck up mid and late game because of it. Or am i missing something here?
wouldn't change anything since we won't have the economics to deal with 25% more larva!
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Hydras tier 1 but you can't get any upgrades for them to tier 2. This way zerg can deal with air and warpgate units and has potential for early hydra busts.
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On September 24 2010 04:13 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 04:10 Exclamator wrote:
If any of you guys were active in WoW, you would know Blizzard's track record for balancing games. For example, in WoW arena, a counter was found for RMP (A dominant and overpowered arena composition), but in the same week that counter for RMP got nerfed. They have no desire to balance a game. Blizzard is the only company to make an unbreakably balanced asymmetrical competitive video game that's stood the test of time for over 10 years. Or you know we could go with your selective example that has tons of other factors (like the need to balance for PvE).
blizzard didnt balance BW. it was completely luck. the map makers and the pro gamers balanced it. look at the lost temple matchup win% stats in pro league if you need any imbalance in bw referencing
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On September 24 2010 04:20 Fantistic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 04:10 Lefnui wrote:On September 24 2010 04:09 kickinhead wrote:On September 24 2010 04:06 Endorsed wrote:On September 24 2010 04:05 Toxigen wrote:On September 24 2010 02:25 Odds wrote:
I really don't understand Blizzard's intense fear of somehow making Zerg 'too strong'. Is it somehow worse than having either of the other races far too strong- as is currently the case with Terran? This isn't what Blizzard fears. Blizzard fears that they'll make a race "underpowered" in every patch cycle. Let's say that they come out with a huge balance patch in 1.2. This patch, for the sake of argument, magically fixes all Zerg's issues with Terran with a roach buff. But since Zerg doesn't have the same sorts of issues with Protoss as they do with Terran, let's say that Zerg is slightly overtuned now against Protoss in the early/midgame. So, Blizzard makes a couple minor changes to Protoss in 1.3 to give Protoss parity with Zerg by making immortals easier to get in larger numbers earlier to fight off the "improved" 1.2 roaches. But now, immortals are too easy to get and COMPLETELY nullify marauder pushes. Overly effective 1.3 zealot/immortal timing pushes now become standard PvT and Terran is now UP v Protoss even though they've finally become balanced against Zerg in 1.2 ... and around and around it goes. Indeed, people need to realize how FUCKING HARD it is to balance a RTS. There's a reason only Blizzard has succeeded at delivering good RTS games. In BW it was Luck and WC3 is neither balanced nor good..... Clearly you know nothing about WC3. 8 years after WC3 was released and every match-up isn't balanced.
TvP isn't balanced in BW either :shrug:
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On September 24 2010 04:16 heishe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 04:14 Logo wrote:On September 24 2010 04:11 heishe wrote:
Infestor play is completely useless and relies on the opponents mistakes. No infestor will get inside a Terran base unless the Terran makes mistakes and have fun with good fungal growth on Thors and Tanks. If the Zerg makes a lot of infestors, all the Terran has to do is a solid mech mix and it's gg, since they're insanely gas heavy, even more so if someone is stupid enough to research Neural Parasite.
Mass Infestor play is nothing but gimmicks. It only works if you catch your opponent completely off guard (just like Nydus and Roach Burrow plays etc.), which might happen now since nobody uses it, but once it becomes somewhat more common it will be another useless strat that lived a short live, just like sens 1 base muta etc.
And by the way, unless you park an infestor in every base you have and have perfect control over all of them once the Terran shift-drops in 3 bases they won't stop anything. You don't need to be offensive for the infestors to work. Infestors with other units (they are casters after all) are a great way to secure a 3rd/deny an enemy 3rd and transition into late game. yes, have fun with that insane infestor/ling mix against a tank / hellion / thor push. you might go infestor / roach but that's pretty much just as useless since you won't have gas to get enough roaches.
How many infestors are you making lol. 4 infestors do a lot and still leaves you plenty of gas for roaches.
Tank/Hellion/Thor is hard for infestor play now due to burrow casting nerf. Um there's not much more to say about it really because yeah that's hard. That's the thing you worry about when going infestor play. You're also talking about a very heavy mech play that's going to take a ton of factories to be of a sizable force.
Even then there are some things you can do. If you FG the push in motion you can delay it, you can scout it and transition a different way and if you FG in motion enough you'll kill the hellions making lings a viable force. You can also use Infested Terrans instead of FG since the FG isn't as useful vs that type of push.
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On September 24 2010 04:19 Qikz wrote:
My idea of how to stop people complaining about Marauder Drops
Don't give buildings an armor type.
Mine would be more along the lines of making drop a 200/200 upgrade
But I'm not really interested in taking the fun toys from the other races, I want zerg to be a complete race.
We can't nerf everything so that the broken, shitty race can compete. We need to build that piece of shit up into a viable race
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On September 24 2010 04:20 Perkins1752 wrote:Do you mean the fact he switched to Terran?
this is fkn GOLDEN! ^^'
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I guess zerg is not dominating in korea as blizzard said(which has been known for a while now)
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I just don't see why Zerg's complain about drops if they fail to do them themselves. Kind of like when people who didn't vote get angry about who's in office...
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EPT
