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obviously drop ship can be counter with overlord blings drop
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Zerg need a way to put pressure on tier 1. Any wall off completely shuts down any zerg agression before muta or hydra. And hydra without creep is like reaver without dropship.
Today I had a game on metalopolis. He pyloned my ramp, but he failed and i could run past with 5 drones to kill cannons. It still put me behind even tho i got the hatch up before spawning pool, and he had to cancel 4 cannons and lost his two pylons while i lost no drones. Then when my lings get out i run over to his base (close positions). And theres 1 cannon and a nexus spawning thats blocked off so i cant run by. At that time, his cannons failed , he canceled alot of cannons , lost two pylons, I got my hatch up, but im still behind cus i had to pull drones to take it out.
Then i begin to mass drones since i cant do anything to his expansion since i have no ranged units to harass it. I plant a 3th hatch pretty fast and get hydra roach corrupters. My 3th hatch had to be placed really far away since we had close spawns, so when he scouted it, he ran 5 zealots over there to harass, when i run my speedlings over there to take it out, he attacks my natural with stalker sentry colossus, and rapes it.
Then I wonder, how the hell can Zerg win on close positions Metaloplosis. I had 1-1 roach /hydra, to his 1-0 army, and i had more supply.
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I remember some terran did a cool stuff.
He took three medivacs with only one marauder and sent it to protoss main base. Pretended to be mass dropping. Protoss saw it and moved all his army to the main, its like he had to. Then terran wiped out the protoss expansion in couple of seconds.
It was so ridiculous. I hate terran and blizzard for this bs. I mean what protoss should have done, nothing.
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On September 24 2010 04:27 kNyTTyM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 04:19 kickinhead wrote:On September 24 2010 04:17 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 24 2010 04:11 heishe wrote:
Infestor play is completely useless and relies on the opponents mistakes. No infestor will get inside a Terran base unless the Terran makes mistakes and have fun with good fungal growth on Thors and Tanks. If the Zerg makes a lot of infestors, all the Terran has to do is a solid mech mix and it's gg, since they're insanely gas heavy, even more so if someone is stupid enough to research Neural Parasite.
Mass Infestor play is nothing but gimmicks. It only works if you catch your opponent completely off guard (just like Nydus and Roach Burrow plays etc.), which might happen now since nobody uses it, but once it becomes somewhat more common it will be another useless strat that lived a short live, just like sens 1 base muta etc.
And by the way, unless you park an infestor in every base you have and have perfect control over all of them once the Terran shift-drops in 3 bases they won't stop anything.
btw it's pretty ignorant to assume that all Zerg pro's out there ignore infestors and that TLO is somehow the only one who magically recognizes their godly usefulness. I'm rather sure quite the contrary is the case. Most of them probably played around a lot with the infestor and came to the same conclusion I posted here. I completely and wholeheartily disagree. MASS infestor may suck yes. but infestors are as important as defilers were. I agree: Infestors may get you a few surprise-wins, but as a solid BO, I wouldn't use them... They are a solid unit but comparing them to a defiler is absurd. Defiler means terran basically can't attack unless zerg screws up and turns terran 2000 gas vessel cloud into mutalisk food. Fungal growth and infested terran are decent but swarm, plague, and consume are borderline OP.
I was talking about a mass-infestor playstyle of course. A few are always good indeed.
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Isn't PDD a better version of Dark Swarm though?
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On September 24 2010 04:27 kNyTTyM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 04:19 kickinhead wrote:On September 24 2010 04:17 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 24 2010 04:11 heishe wrote:
Infestor play is completely useless and relies on the opponents mistakes. No infestor will get inside a Terran base unless the Terran makes mistakes and have fun with good fungal growth on Thors and Tanks. If the Zerg makes a lot of infestors, all the Terran has to do is a solid mech mix and it's gg, since they're insanely gas heavy, even more so if someone is stupid enough to research Neural Parasite.
Mass Infestor play is nothing but gimmicks. It only works if you catch your opponent completely off guard (just like Nydus and Roach Burrow plays etc.), which might happen now since nobody uses it, but once it becomes somewhat more common it will be another useless strat that lived a short live, just like sens 1 base muta etc.
And by the way, unless you park an infestor in every base you have and have perfect control over all of them once the Terran shift-drops in 3 bases they won't stop anything.
btw it's pretty ignorant to assume that all Zerg pro's out there ignore infestors and that TLO is somehow the only one who magically recognizes their godly usefulness. I'm rather sure quite the contrary is the case. Most of them probably played around a lot with the infestor and came to the same conclusion I posted here. I completely and wholeheartily disagree. MASS infestor may suck yes. but infestors are as important as defilers were. I agree: Infestors may get you a few surprise-wins, but as a solid BO, I wouldn't use them... They are a solid unit but comparing them to a defiler is absurd. Defiler means terran basically can't attack unless zerg screws up and turns terran 2000 gas vessel cloud into mutalisk food. Fungal growth and infested terran are decent but swarm, plague, and consume are borderline OP.
Infestors mean terran basically can't attack (dependant on unit/positioning), Move, see (dependant on positioning) unless zerg screws up, and it turns drops/air/low health units into fodder.
Now if infestors had consume i'd probably be unbeatable in the mid-late game. because i seem to falter from screwing up my energy management and having consume would eliminate half that problem.
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Patch changes at the moment should be big and often, in my opinion. It's like when I first started playing golf hitting a lot of fades with the driver - in practice, I would try and make changes so that I would go straight from the fade to a draw (hitting the ball too far right to hitting it too far left, for non-golf people), so that I knew I could tighten it down into hitting straight a lot faster than just by trying small changes one at a time and analyzing the results.
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On September 24 2010 04:24 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 04:20 heishe wrote:On September 24 2010 04:17 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 24 2010 04:11 heishe wrote:
Infestor play is completely useless and relies on the opponents mistakes. No infestor will get inside a Terran base unless the Terran makes mistakes and have fun with good fungal growth on Thors and Tanks. If the Zerg makes a lot of infestors, all the Terran has to do is a solid mech mix and it's gg, since they're insanely gas heavy, even more so if someone is stupid enough to research Neural Parasite.
Mass Infestor play is nothing but gimmicks. It only works if you catch your opponent completely off guard (just like Nydus and Roach Burrow plays etc.), which might happen now since nobody uses it, but once it becomes somewhat more common it will be another useless strat that lived a short live, just like sens 1 base muta etc.
And by the way, unless you park an infestor in every base you have and have perfect control over all of them once the Terran shift-drops in 3 bases they won't stop anything.
btw it's pretty ignorant to assume that all Zerg pro's out there ignore infestors and that TLO is somehow the only one who magically recognizes their godly usefulness. I'm rather sure quite the contrary is the case. Most of them probably played around a lot with the infestor and came to the same conclusion I posted here. I completely and wholeheartily disagree. MASS infestor may suck yes. but infestors are as important as defilers were. If you seriously believe that you must either be on copper league, have no clue about Zerg at all or have no clue about SC1 at all. I wish I could break walls with infestors. Or could it be, that you don't have a clue about Sc2 zerg? or maybe you don't realize the rediculous similarities in Fungal and Dark swarm in terms of function in map control in high level play, or how much zerg relies on positioning and stalling. OR perhaps you just don't realize that Infestors offer everything a defiler offers EXCEPT a plague like spell. Infestors as a gimmick are less than good, infestors as a properly controlled caster are going to become amazingly important as this game continues.
An offensive spell that pins units down and does aoe damage has 'ridiculous similarities' to a defensive aoe spell designed to allow melee units to engage fortified positions backed with ranged firepower head-on without suffering massive losses?
Okey dokey then.
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i agree Thermia, small patches should be dont if there are minor issues, not that one
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On September 24 2010 04:26 lolbad wrote:
its also funny to me how we got from "zerg is a reactionary race just get used to it" to this in 1,5 months. pretty self-explanatory
I still never understood why people all of a sudden decided that zerg should be the reactionary race. Anyone remember the term "zerg rush"? ZvT used to go something "oh no, it's a zerg, I should wall off and play defensive early on so I don't get rushed". Now it goes something like "oh no, it's a zerg, as long as I mass any unit and push before the 12 minute mark, I should just roflstomp him"
Also, people telling zergs to do more drop play should note that zerg drops cost 100 min + supply + 150/150 speed + 200/200 drop, Overlords don't have magical healing powers. Medivacs cost 100/100. You can see why this is not a viable option.
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On September 24 2010 04:30 bokeevboke wrote:
I remember some terran did a cool stuff.
He took three medivacs with only one marauder and sent it to protoss main base. Pretended to be mass dropping. Protoss saw it and moved all his army to the main, its like he had to. Then terran wiped out the protoss expansion in couple of seconds.
It was so ridiculous. I hate terran and blizzard for this bs. I mean what protoss should have done, nothing.
That was actually a cool strat by the terran playing mind game.
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I would really like either splitting the Medivac into Medic and Dropship or remove the armored status fromthe buildings, other than defensive ones ( cannon / crawlers / bunker, turret )
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Oh, here we fucking go again. NOTHING constructive is going to come out of this thread.
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On September 24 2010 04:20 Perkins1752 wrote:Do you mean the fact he switched to Terran?
Perkins, you win this thread. You win the balance-discussion.
Give this man a medal.
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We've got dimaga and cool now, we just need IdrA to threaten a race switch and maybe Blizzard will listen.
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On September 24 2010 04:33 Karkadinn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 04:24 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 24 2010 04:20 heishe wrote:On September 24 2010 04:17 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 24 2010 04:11 heishe wrote:
Infestor play is completely useless and relies on the opponents mistakes. No infestor will get inside a Terran base unless the Terran makes mistakes and have fun with good fungal growth on Thors and Tanks. If the Zerg makes a lot of infestors, all the Terran has to do is a solid mech mix and it's gg, since they're insanely gas heavy, even more so if someone is stupid enough to research Neural Parasite.
Mass Infestor play is nothing but gimmicks. It only works if you catch your opponent completely off guard (just like Nydus and Roach Burrow plays etc.), which might happen now since nobody uses it, but once it becomes somewhat more common it will be another useless strat that lived a short live, just like sens 1 base muta etc.
And by the way, unless you park an infestor in every base you have and have perfect control over all of them once the Terran shift-drops in 3 bases they won't stop anything.
btw it's pretty ignorant to assume that all Zerg pro's out there ignore infestors and that TLO is somehow the only one who magically recognizes their godly usefulness. I'm rather sure quite the contrary is the case. Most of them probably played around a lot with the infestor and came to the same conclusion I posted here. I completely and wholeheartily disagree. MASS infestor may suck yes. but infestors are as important as defilers were. If you seriously believe that you must either be on copper league, have no clue about Zerg at all or have no clue about SC1 at all. I wish I could break walls with infestors. Or could it be, that you don't have a clue about Sc2 zerg? or maybe you don't realize the rediculous similarities in Fungal and Dark swarm in terms of function in map control in high level play, or how much zerg relies on positioning and stalling. OR perhaps you just don't realize that Infestors offer everything a defiler offers EXCEPT a plague like spell. Infestors as a gimmick are less than good, infestors as a properly controlled caster are going to become amazingly important as this game continues. An offensive spell that pins units down and does aoe damage has 'ridiculous similarities' to a defensive aoe spell designed to allow melee units to engage fortified positions backed with ranged firepower head-on without suffering massive losses? Okey dokey then.
It's the exact opposite spell. but they have the same purpose, they are used to control space, protect key positions, and dominate weaker armies with almost no casualities.
"defensive spell designed to allow - units to engage fortitied positions" sounds oxymoronic. I know exactly what you mean though so it's okay.
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On September 24 2010 04:26 lolbad wrote:
its also funny to me how we got from "zerg is a reactionary race just get used to it" to this in 1,5 months. pretty self-explanatory
well people follow like blink people what the good player say soo
usualy we got that after showmatch too , like one good terran will use banshee realy good , the next day everyone will whine about how imbalanced banshee are.
before that was reaper , now they got medivac .
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i guess a constructive statement would be something like "give terrans marine / marauder speed upgrade for 50/50/30 and all will be fine" then huh gillon?
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On September 24 2010 04:31 kickinhead wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 04:27 kNyTTyM wrote:On September 24 2010 04:19 kickinhead wrote:On September 24 2010 04:17 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 24 2010 04:11 heishe wrote:
Infestor play is completely useless and relies on the opponents mistakes. No infestor will get inside a Terran base unless the Terran makes mistakes and have fun with good fungal growth on Thors and Tanks. If the Zerg makes a lot of infestors, all the Terran has to do is a solid mech mix and it's gg, since they're insanely gas heavy, even more so if someone is stupid enough to research Neural Parasite.
Mass Infestor play is nothing but gimmicks. It only works if you catch your opponent completely off guard (just like Nydus and Roach Burrow plays etc.), which might happen now since nobody uses it, but once it becomes somewhat more common it will be another useless strat that lived a short live, just like sens 1 base muta etc.
And by the way, unless you park an infestor in every base you have and have perfect control over all of them once the Terran shift-drops in 3 bases they won't stop anything.
btw it's pretty ignorant to assume that all Zerg pro's out there ignore infestors and that TLO is somehow the only one who magically recognizes their godly usefulness. I'm rather sure quite the contrary is the case. Most of them probably played around a lot with the infestor and came to the same conclusion I posted here. I completely and wholeheartily disagree. MASS infestor may suck yes. but infestors are as important as defilers were. I agree: Infestors may get you a few surprise-wins, but as a solid BO, I wouldn't use them... They are a solid unit but comparing them to a defiler is absurd. Defiler means terran basically can't attack unless zerg screws up and turns terran 2000 gas vessel cloud into mutalisk food. Fungal growth and infested terran are decent but swarm, plague, and consume are borderline OP. I was talking about a mass-infestor playstyle of course. A few are always good indeed.
Was actually referring to the nested quote and sort of agreeing with you. Was too lazy to edit out your part hehe..
On September 24 2010 04:32 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 04:27 kNyTTyM wrote:On September 24 2010 04:19 kickinhead wrote:On September 24 2010 04:17 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 24 2010 04:11 heishe wrote:
Infestor play is completely useless and relies on the opponents mistakes. No infestor will get inside a Terran base unless the Terran makes mistakes and have fun with good fungal growth on Thors and Tanks. If the Zerg makes a lot of infestors, all the Terran has to do is a solid mech mix and it's gg, since they're insanely gas heavy, even more so if someone is stupid enough to research Neural Parasite.
Mass Infestor play is nothing but gimmicks. It only works if you catch your opponent completely off guard (just like Nydus and Roach Burrow plays etc.), which might happen now since nobody uses it, but once it becomes somewhat more common it will be another useless strat that lived a short live, just like sens 1 base muta etc.
And by the way, unless you park an infestor in every base you have and have perfect control over all of them once the Terran shift-drops in 3 bases they won't stop anything.
btw it's pretty ignorant to assume that all Zerg pro's out there ignore infestors and that TLO is somehow the only one who magically recognizes their godly usefulness. I'm rather sure quite the contrary is the case. Most of them probably played around a lot with the infestor and came to the same conclusion I posted here. I completely and wholeheartily disagree. MASS infestor may suck yes. but infestors are as important as defilers were. I agree: Infestors may get you a few surprise-wins, but as a solid BO, I wouldn't use them... They are a solid unit but comparing them to a defiler is absurd. Defiler means terran basically can't attack unless zerg screws up and turns terran 2000 gas vessel cloud into mutalisk food. Fungal growth and infested terran are decent but swarm, plague, and consume are borderline OP. Infestors mean terran basically can't attack (dependant on unit/positioning), Move, see (dependant on positioning) unless zerg screws up, and it turns drops/air/low health units into fodder. Now if infestors had consume i'd probably be unbeatable in the mid-late game. because i seem to falter from screwing up my energy management and having consume would eliminate half that problem.
So uh how many infestors are you getting? I acknowledge infestors are good units but getting enough to prevent terran move out seems almost unrealistic. 6 infestors equates to gas for 9 mutalisks or 36 banes. Tanks with proper sight management (using an scv or medivac to max range) will also eat the armored infestors. Lastly what unit are you getting in combination with infestors? so we went pretty off topic so last one from me
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On September 24 2010 04:33 Karkadinn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 04:24 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 24 2010 04:20 heishe wrote:On September 24 2010 04:17 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 24 2010 04:11 heishe wrote:
Infestor play is completely useless and relies on the opponents mistakes. No infestor will get inside a Terran base unless the Terran makes mistakes and have fun with good fungal growth on Thors and Tanks. If the Zerg makes a lot of infestors, all the Terran has to do is a solid mech mix and it's gg, since they're insanely gas heavy, even more so if someone is stupid enough to research Neural Parasite.
Mass Infestor play is nothing but gimmicks. It only works if you catch your opponent completely off guard (just like Nydus and Roach Burrow plays etc.), which might happen now since nobody uses it, but once it becomes somewhat more common it will be another useless strat that lived a short live, just like sens 1 base muta etc.
And by the way, unless you park an infestor in every base you have and have perfect control over all of them once the Terran shift-drops in 3 bases they won't stop anything.
btw it's pretty ignorant to assume that all Zerg pro's out there ignore infestors and that TLO is somehow the only one who magically recognizes their godly usefulness. I'm rather sure quite the contrary is the case. Most of them probably played around a lot with the infestor and came to the same conclusion I posted here. I completely and wholeheartily disagree. MASS infestor may suck yes. but infestors are as important as defilers were. If you seriously believe that you must either be on copper league, have no clue about Zerg at all or have no clue about SC1 at all. I wish I could break walls with infestors. Or could it be, that you don't have a clue about Sc2 zerg? or maybe you don't realize the rediculous similarities in Fungal and Dark swarm in terms of function in map control in high level play, or how much zerg relies on positioning and stalling. OR perhaps you just don't realize that Infestors offer everything a defiler offers EXCEPT a plague like spell. Infestors as a gimmick are less than good, infestors as a properly controlled caster are going to become amazingly important as this game continues. An offensive spell that pins units down and does aoe damage has 'ridiculous similarities' to a defensive aoe spell designed to allow melee units to engage fortified positions backed with ranged firepower head-on without suffering massive losses? Okey dokey then.
FG is just as useful defensively as it is offensively. I mean yeah you cast it on enemy units, but it has a lot of stopping power vs pushes.
I feel like 1/2 of the people bitching about infestors have never even really tried them =/.
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EPT
