EPTFruitseller (Cool) may change his race in GSL #2 - Page 16
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Luvz
Norway356 Posts
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United States7542 Posts
On September 24 2010 03:38 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I think that there are things TLO does that other zergs should do. This doesnt mean hes better than said players with Zerg... To me it seems like the biggest problems for Zerg is being incapable of fighting off-creep (hydras and ultras are just useless once they get off creep), and there not being sufficient space for proper flanking on a lot of maps (or, even if there is a flank, the paths are still so small that a few force fields will turn the flank into nothing). TLOs mass infestor play is about the best way of stopping drops there is, and fungal allows ultras to actually fight off-creep. Keep in mind Im talking ZvT here, ZvP I dunno shit about except that it seems pretty annoying to play if you are Zerg. Burrowed infestors are also quite good at erasing SCV lines. Oh and there are better zergs out there than TLO right now, but there is nobody in the world who uses infestors better than him. Nobody. NOTE: All this being said doesnt mean that Zerg doesnt need changes made to them... Cuz they probably do. There are some weaknesses with mass infestor play, especially the window between hitting lair and having an infestor with 75 energy. I try to do mass infestor play ZvT as I like it for the reasons you listed. I'm nowhere as good as TLO obviously, but it doesn't seem like an end-all solution. Still personally I think it's the better opening than mutas and does need to be explored more. The problem is with so few Zergs it doesn't seem likely that anyone will exploit them fully anytime soon. Fighting off creep is a big problem, specifically in ZvP where a Protoss player can have several windows of weakness but zerg is too slow off creep to exploit them. Personally I'd rather just see Nydus worms be more practical (less gas cost, more minerals please since zerg is already a gas monster) so you can use nyduses infront of an enemy base to pressure. | ||
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-vVvTitan-
United States473 Posts
On September 24 2010 03:29 Liquid`Jinro wrote: To me it seems like the biggest problems for Zerg is being incapable of fighting off-creep (hydras and ultras are just useless once they get off creep), and there not being sufficient space for proper flanking on a lot of maps (or, even if there is a flank, the paths are still so small that a few force fields will turn the flank into nothing). Exactly. If the creep mechanic did not exist, I believe zerg would be balanced. Although my beliefs are that Zerg > Terran Atm (even pre-patch with Solid mechanics/infestor play). It is frustrating to be forced to play a 30 minute minute game EVERY TIME I face a terran on ladder. As for protoss, well, 2base blink stalkers are extremely hard to beat when you cannot spread creep. If you do not secure a 3rd base,(which is REALLY hard considering 3 gate pressure forces lings, not drones) you lose. Collo are strong as hell, requires t3 or 3 base to defeat. However, once again, the 3rd base is extremely tough to get. Back to the main point---Creep. Transitioning from Early -> Mid / 2Base -> 3 is a joke. 1600 zerg :o | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On September 24 2010 03:38 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Oh and there are better zergs out there than TLO right now, but there is nobody in the world who uses infestors better than him. Nobody. I'll give it to him because he's TLO and i love him and i'm still working on everything myself, but I'll get there and surpass him in this regard by far within a year. (for people who don't know me i rely on infestors in every matchup to catapult me ahead so arguably i get more practice than anyone) EDIT: i know bold response to a bolded statement, made by a relatively unknown player (myself not jinro), but you guys can hold me to this. | ||
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Voyager I
United States260 Posts
http://www.sc2ranks.com/eu/1458390/Pekkz Yell louder please. | ||
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KevinIX
United States2472 Posts
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Raevin
246 Posts
Guess what It never did become balanced You have to target the core issues and attempt to data mine them for solutions, nerfing Battle Cruisers is not going to do much of anything for ZvT. I have played some disgustingly imbalanced games, like MvC2, Halo 2, MW2 etc and SC2 and the Terran race is right up there, its not some minor issue where you twink around build time for 2 seconds and its all good and great, the whole race is vastly better than Terrans from BW, yet Zerg are vastly WORSE than Zerg from BW. One race became alot better, the other became alot ******er | ||
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United States7542 Posts
On September 24 2010 03:48 PrinceXizor wrote: I'll give it to him because he's TLO and i love him and i'm still working on everything myself, but I'll get there and surpass him in this regard by far within a year. (for people who don't know me i rely on infestors in every matchup to catapult me ahead so arguably i get more practice than anyone) I never realized that you were so infestor focused. I'll have to watch your stream more then lol. Infestors fighting! Also on queens (someone mentioned them). It's super annoying to have 60% of your production be 175hp unit. That's why zerg are super drop vulnerable. Imagine a zerg being able to take out 2 barracks in just 175 dmg (assuming you support 4 barracks/base which is a little generic of a benchmark). That's pretty much what it's like to lose a vomiting queen. | ||
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Doko
Argentina1737 Posts
I almost never go HT in PvT and I think the matchup is excellent at all stages of the game. There are a lot of different ways to play PvT and TvP and that's part of what makes it so great! What exactly do you do in the mid game? just out of curiosity? haven't seen you play PvT recently except the 2nd game vs select on the tl open | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
Zerg don't have the insane damage units aside from T3. Yes you can drop with ovies but there's nothing like dropping with 2 medivacs and killing a hatch in 10 seconds. | ||
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Lefnui
United States753 Posts
On September 24 2010 03:47 Titan107 wrote: Although my beliefs are that Zerg > Terran Atm (even pre-patch with Solid mechanics/infestor play). And you came to that insane conclusion how? | ||
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Dromar
United States2145 Posts
On September 24 2010 03:27 ryanAnger wrote: Yeah, I'm probably not going to buy GSL 2, because of the complete lack of Zergs present. This is exactly why I've lost interest in watching the current GSL. I play Zerg, and naturally am more interested in games involving Zerg, which are also generally agreed to be the most interesting matchups. | ||
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United States7542 Posts
On September 24 2010 03:52 hugman wrote: Someone was talking about drops Zerg don't have the insane damage units aside from T3. Yes you can drop with ovies but there's nothing like dropping with 2 medivacs and killing a hatch in 10 seconds. Hydras and Ultras are the DPS units for zerg that'd be effective in drops... but.... Ultras well they take a ton of space in an OL and offer no range which is dangerous when trying to fight in a choked up base. Hydras are shit off creep and are a risky unit to make ZvT (though maybe not now?). | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On September 24 2010 03:52 hugman wrote: Someone was talking about drops Zerg don't have the insane damage units aside from T3. Yes you can drop with ovies but there's nothing like dropping with 2 medivacs and killing a hatch in 10 seconds. I can unload a 100 supply-army into the Terrans base and kill less buildings than 2 Medivacs full with marauders.... | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On September 24 2010 03:51 Raevin wrote: You have to target the core issues and attempt to data mine them for solutions, nerfing Battle Cruisers is not going to do much of anything for ZvT. It does help for PvT  At least there are some changes in the game now, so I think we need sometime to explore the possibilities of each match up before we could reach a conclusion. Sure playing 10 or 20 games might give you an idea but it would not be as accurate as after playing 100+ or 200+ games. | ||
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iNty.sCream
Germany195 Posts
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Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
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Luvz
Norway356 Posts
On September 24 2010 03:41 Liquid`Tyler wrote: I almost never go HT in PvT and I think the matchup is excellent at all stages of the game. There are a lot of different ways to play PvT and TvP and that's part of what makes it so great! Wow, Really?! cant wait to see ur PVT Replays. im struggeling HARD against Counter drops and Bio in general. as soon as i get out templars witch is once i get up my natural it starts to even out. i guess phoenix play is the shit vs terran these days  Mauraders keeps snipeing my nexuses. ;( im a scrub but not a bronze scrub. 1450+ Diamond atm. (EU) | ||
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
This is really interesting though. If he were on a kespa team he would have probably been penalized for cursing or something stupid like that. | ||
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YoonHo
Canada1043 Posts
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