New game clock feature - Page 5

Skaff

United States240 Posts

September 21 2010 18:11 GMT

#81

Oh man... TL forum bitching at its finest. I am actually surprised a feature like this was never implemented before (considering its a staple in many other competitive games). I am a fan of features that allow different types of minds to operate in the same type game. Some people will understand a numeric timing better than arbitrary/visual timings.

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regulator_mk

United States127 Posts

September 21 2010 18:12 GMT

#82

It doesn't really help at low levels, because people have random builds and timings. It doesn't help at highest level, because people already have a good feel for timings. But it might help some people somewhere in between... Either way, it definitely doesn't hurt the game. Having a clock is not all of a sudden going to allow an inferior player to win because he knows the time...

Voyager I

United States260 Posts

September 21 2010 18:14 GMT

#83

On September 22 2010 02:42 bonifaceviii wrote:
I may be a bronze player, but I'd like to ask a question.

Why is an in-game feature with the potential to allow players to better refine their timing a bad thing?

I think we should reach a compromise between the hardcore BW players and everyone else. Put the clock in the game (rather than on your desk), but then make it so you need to spam your APM up to 300 to see it.

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naveedx983

United States58 Posts

September 21 2010 18:16 GMT

#84

For the vast majority of us who just play ladder or in home, setting up a normal timer and having our own timings written down was already possible. So why are people upset that they just have it built in? I sometimes have a timer running on my second screen when I play.

I am assuming using an outside device like this isn't allowed in tournaments, but tournament caliber players keep track of this stuff a lot better based off of other information (supply/resource/game sense)

xlep

Germany274 Posts

September 21 2010 18:19 GMT

#85

It will probably be banned from tournaments, but I think it will surely help players like me get better. I'm ~30 Diamond now, starting to get a hang of timings and polishing my builds. This could help a little till I got a feeling for all that stuff

Augury

United States758 Posts

September 21 2010 18:22 GMT

#86

The clock won't affect high level play, but it will allow a lot of players to significantly improve their gameplay. It will help new players prepare against specific builds and become aware of timing. At the higher levels though, nothing is going to be perfectly timed out, because games are different, so players will still need to be able to gauge timings based on the information they have.

KillerPlague

United States1386 Posts

September 21 2010 18:23 GMT

#87

On September 22 2010 02:17 Piski wrote:
Why make a completely new thread for this feature :o

i think the OP has some very good questions. personally im a little concerned on this feature as an in game clock can definitely help lower skilled players on timings. however since it is widely available to everyone then perhaps it will be fine?

CaptainFwiffo

United States576 Posts

September 21 2010 18:24 GMT

#88

I expect a net positive effect.

At the top diamond/pro level it won't make a difference; these players already have great timing sense.

At the bronze/silver/gold level it won't make a difference because the players' mechanics are so bad that timings aren't ever precise anyway.

For improving players it will be a great learning tool. Helping people learn the game will improve the quality of play, so this is obviously good.

For low to mid diamond players, it will be harder to get away with well known timing attacks you learned off the Internet. Creative, innovative play that is unpredictable or exploits less well known timings will be rewarded. That's a good thing, IMO.

oZii

United States1198 Posts

September 21 2010 18:24 GMT

#89

I really can't see why anyone hates this idea it seems the consensus is that it will make a person that isn't as good as someone from back in BW days a little closer in the skill gap. Why not welcome a feature that can help people improve. No one got on Yabot which does the same thing but is much more refined and in-depth. Most Pro's and high tiered players don't care about ladder but the ones that have a problem seem to be those that aspire to be pro and therefore are upset that this is something that can speed up a players growth process. Its not like Joe-Smo comes off the street picks up a mouse and instantly Gosu and can beat your Favorite pro player because of a clock.

Think of how many people out there actually want to help players and try to teach and coach at starcraft 2 and this can help them tremendously in explaining to a student that they should have X units by this time mark and push out at this time mark. If you are a purest turn it off and play that way don't be upset because someone else chooses to utilize a function blizzard added to the game.

QueueQueue

Canada1000 Posts

September 21 2010 18:24 GMT

#90

In my opinion, I would like to see this as an option for custom games only. I think it would be beneficial for working on builds and learning timings, but I think it should stay off the ladder. I will give it time to play out before I formulate an informed opinion though.

viraltouch

United States299 Posts

September 21 2010 18:25 GMT

#91

you know, if you really wanted a timer then you can use your own watch/phone too. so I don't see how this is a big deal. it is just convenient for people who want it, and if you think its a disadvantage for you then you can start using it too. chill out guys, this isnt blizzard's scheme to make it worse for bw machines /w internal clocks.

dudeman001

United States2412 Posts

September 21 2010 18:31 GMT

#92

In a professional (and/or tournament) setting I would like to see in-game clocks turned off. Having the timings down for attacks is something progamers are known for in BroodWar, and it should translate over to Starcraft II as well. In a non-professional setting (ladder, CGs), I think it's completely acceptable and should be encouraged. Players will get a better feel as to where they are with their build compared to other builds, when they can expect certain attacks to better prepare for them, and if their tinkering improves or detracts from their timing. It's a really great practice tool that I look forward to using.

mishimaBeef

Canada2259 Posts

September 21 2010 18:33 GMT

#93

I think it will be entertaining esp. now that casters can be like "well he can't be happy, he's been pinned in for 3 minutes now and the clock just keeps ticking away for him".

Adds more tension to the game esp. great for observers. Sure you could argue that players shouldn't be exposed to it but hey I say give them all the mechanics they need (within reason of course) and let us see the magic.

I mean hey, great timing attacks will be even better now right?

Fa1nT

United States3423 Posts

September 21 2010 18:33 GMT

#94

On September 22 2010 03:25 viraltouch wrote:
you know, if you really wanted a timer then you can use your own watch/phone too. so I don't see how this is a big deal. it is just convenient for people who want it, and if you think its a disadvantage for you then you can start using it too. chill out guys, this isnt blizzard's scheme to make it worse for bw machines /w internal clocks.

A few days ago I was wondering if people who play in those pro korean matches inside the boxes were allowed to use wristwatches and stuff ( even googled and looked at the rules, couldn't find it though.), but now it won't matter

FabledIntegral

United States9232 Posts

September 21 2010 18:35 GMT

#95

Just a way for me to measure how far behind I am in a particular game compared to normal... maybe if everything is playing out the way I want it, I could have a mental note "stop droning around 4:25," etc.

On_Slaught

United States12190 Posts

September 21 2010 18:37 GMT

#96

I'm really not a fan of this since it is clearly a handicap.

Knowing timings is (used to be) an essential part to high-level play. It helped weed out the serious gamers and those who just did random strats and tried to win by luck/a-moving.

Now it won't be long before you see timing orders for each possible build/rush/attack which will enable even the worst players to be prepared for what used to be the unexpected.

Also, it decreases the important of scouting, which is another hallmark of great players, since you can more easily prepare for different possibilities at different stages of the game with blanket-responses.

Ultimately, it probably won't have a great effect on SC2. However, it is simply not necessary and serves only as another handicap on top of the many others, moving SC2 one step closer to being completely devoid of player skill, being mostly automated.

Please don't put this in game.

kidcrash89

198 Posts

September 21 2010 18:39 GMT

#97

This seems great for little measurements like "when's the earliest 6 pool lings could reach your base?" or "what's the quickest that someone can get a banshee out?". I see this feature giving players a lot more freedom with experimenting with their builds; they won't have to say something along the lines of, "at 30 food with build ABC I need to worry about xyz". Instead they can try different things without having to associate timings with specific builds. Realistically, good players will use game sense rather than the clock anyways. In terms of strategy, I think it is a great stride forward.

I don't agree that it devalues scouting. If you defend for a 6 pool every game, for example, you are going to fall behind a lot because you'll be sacrificing your economy for defending something that might not be coming. I think that this change will also lead to more macro-oriented mind games.

TheImmortal

Hong Kong84 Posts

September 21 2010 18:42 GMT

#98

people here are mostly veterans of starcraft. changing their gaming habbits really scares and pisses them off, but honestly, an in game clock isnt a bad feature. let's look at it this way, many other rts games already have it. people giving commentary can make more meaningful comments than it's a 6-pool rush. i've been playing sc for some time and i know how fast it is, but it would be so much easier to understand if it's a spawning pool at 20 seconds. and better yet, we can make more meaningful statements cause after a while, supply will be used by the army and tends to fluctuate. indeed, it is true that veteran sc players do not need the clock, but even with the clock, the advantage gained by non-veterans will be so small that it wouldn't break the game, yet they will have a goal to try to attain. all in all, i'm used to having an in game clock as i started seriously playing aoe first and it makes the game so much easier to understand.

SaetZero

United States855 Posts

September 21 2010 18:43 GMT

#99

I think I might have this on, if for no other reason than to get a gauge of how well I have been harassed

Let's say I know, playing 100% normally, I would be at 68-70 food 6 minutes in (just numbers, do not take as a real example)

I notice my opponent tried some hard harass, killed some things, but I defended

6 minutes: I am at 57 food... 10 below normal

I know I killed about 15-20 supply of units cuz I blocked a drop of something.

I can blindly deduce I am probably a little ahead if I didnt jack up my worker count.

Also, might use it to be like 'I will start trying to take a third at 9 minutes or beyond' so I have a gauge of how long I can 2 base

again just examples, not real things I have done, but I can see uses for a timer.... not game breaking though

floor exercise

Canada5847 Posts

September 21 2010 18:43 GMT

#100

I don't think it's that big a deal either way, but having that internal timing is just one of the little things that separates players. So in a sense it makes the game a little easier, but not tremendously so, since builds tend to vary so much even by seemingly insignificant actions. A clock won't change someones game sense.

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