EPTNew game clock feature - Page 19
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
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lolbad
Marshall Islands35 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Suspense
United States500 Posts
On September 24 2010 05:49 lolbad wrote: dont worth to discuss really. just another "help the idiot" add-on by shitzard. i hope in 1.2 the clock will be extended, and will provide notifications on incoming possibly pushes like. "~30 seconds remaining until the possible bust" and so on. it would be even better if the new option would only accessable by Terran players. maybe around patch 1.5 the worst player just get an optional "WIN" button? who knows, looking forward for changes. nice to see blizzard taking enormous effort to develop the games further This is one of the most uninformative QQ replies I've seen on this fourm. | ||
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lolbad
Marshall Islands35 Posts
On September 24 2010 06:01 Suspense wrote: This is one of the most uninformative QQ replies I've seen on this fourm. no, thats actually yours =( | ||
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Beneather
Canada451 Posts
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Yamoth
United States315 Posts
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LiCH_
United States9 Posts
I don't think its too much of a big deal, the timer is small and placed in a awkward position. I use it, and I forget to look at it all the time! But if you guys can't tell, Blizz is definitely trying to lower the skill gap with this game. They don't want people to get frustrated and stop playing after being killed constantly, this will give average players a better "feel" for the game. ex. "Oh its 8 minutes into the game, maybe i should expand!" This should level the playing field slightly. Now if only they gave Zerg a buff..... I recommend limiting Queens to one per hatchery, and increasing their damage significantly, this would remedy a lot of TvZ situations. | ||
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Tambe
Canada1 Post
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PoP
France15446 Posts
On September 24 2010 06:06 Yamoth wrote: I don't get this. What is the difference between this and lets say someone taping a stopwatch on top or to the side of the monitor that gets people to rage so much about this? Am I that out of touch with the SC community or are people really like to rage about the stupidest of things? Again, that point was already brought up. There's a reason why many people don't do these things, same as why most of them would probably never think about, like, using an app which runs sounds every N seconds so that you don't forget your stuff (SCVs, inject larvaes, whatever). That's simply because: - you're possibily giving yourself an unfair advantage over your opponent, - you're using something that is not part of the game in order to improve your game, which, no matter how surprising it might sound, is a form of cheating, - and therefore, you'd never, ever be allowed to use that in any kind of serious offline event, should you ever plan to. Now is a completely different story though. | ||
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skirmisheR
Sweden451 Posts
It's about simplifying the game. I don't want a chess game, I want a multitasking game with lots of things to do while microing where the better player wins (just like in BW). Otherwise it's more like chess where strategy is EVERYTHING. And that would be plain boring. | ||
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LiCH_
United States9 Posts
On September 24 2010 06:31 skirmisheR wrote: It's about simplifying the game. I don't want a chess game, I want a multitasking game with lots of things to do while microing where the better player wins (just like in BW). Otherwise it's more like chess where strategy is EVERYTHING. And that would be plain boring. I agree with some of you points, but the part about whoever micros the best will win, i don't agree with at all. It is valid in PRO level matches, especially mirrors, but how many of us are in the top 200, let alone the top 5,000. A player with a good solid strategy or simple luck (building the perfect counter unit) can beat a micro king. Example: Last night I watched a replay between Tommora and PsyKICK. One player had 40 APM, the other was consistently over 100. Guess who won? The 40 APMer. I agree Microing can be advantageous. And in most cases it probably is, but I have personally seen many many games where some Terran micros his first 3-5 reapers with godlike precision, and still loses the game because he wasn't macroing at the same time. | ||
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Nilrem
United States3684 Posts
But alas, this discussion it too broad in my opinion. I think it should be broken up into sections. Solo wise, should it be acceptable to use it? Should it be allowed to be used in multiplayer? And finally, should it be allowed to be used in tournaments. I think question two and three are intertwined in this discussions. But to me, they seem like they ought to be separate questions. For me, I think that at least solo, it should be allowed to be used. As it will help in fine tuning builds as well as response times. I also believe that it should be allowed to be used in multilpayer. We can instinctively learn when a voidray or some other harass unit can come out. That is one reason why some do not wish for it to be in the game. That it would destroy any chance rushes. I think this is a bad reason, since it can be done without outside mechanics, and it can occur naturally. It also helps in having a firsthand experience in playing and learning the timings. Since people differ from Ai's, it would be beneficial to further fine-tune a build form a human experience. The third question I take a little difference stance. I am not so openly willing to have it in tournaments. Sadly, I do not have a rational, logical reason for this. I just have a gut feeling that it should not be allowed. I do not consider it cheating, but it seems like something that would not be necessary if thoroughly practiced. Overall, I think that the clock will not be used to such an extent. I think I am part of the minority that would use it in such a way. I cannot imagine a large portion of the Sc II community using it to improve and get better. But mostly to simply see how long the match has been going on for. | ||
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infringement153
United States30 Posts
Same for buildings, you don't have to hotkey them and keep checking just to know when they finish. I'm all for this addition. | ||
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rS.Sinatra
Canada785 Posts
On September 24 2010 06:21 PoP wrote: Again, that point was already brought up. There's a reason why many people don't do these things, same as why most of them would probably never think about, like, using an app which runs sounds every N seconds so that you don't forget your stuff (SCVs, inject larvaes, whatever). That's simply because: - you're possibily giving yourself an unfair advantage over your opponent, - you're using something that is not part of the game in order to improve your game, which, no matter how surprising it might sound, is a form of cheating, - and therefore, you'd never, ever be allowed to use that in any kind of serious offline event, should you ever plan to. Now is a completely different story though. I know you are all for game sense and all.. but everyone has access to a stop-watch that they can tape to the side of their monitor.. .just because you don't think of it doesn't make it an unfair advantage. It makes the other person smarter. This isn't that big of a deal... a game clock just makes it official that blizzard condones this type of tool in the game. I doubt this hurts the game as much as it improves it. Not to mention it might improve competitiveness in the long run. Also, while running an app that tells you when to inject larva is pretty far-out, you can easily record a timing sound every whatever seconds to inject larva and play it in the background as an MP3 file. Nobody banned music... and who are you to judge on musical preference right? This isn't blatant map hacking, its using the same resources that the general public uses (aka winamp/windows media player) or a simple clock above your computer and memorizing what time you started playing. While your arguements for alot of things are valid, as in, an app that tells you when to inject larva is obviously banned from offline events, music isn't banned from offline events and the majority of people here don't go to offline events. I doubt even 2% of the.. wait.. how many million people bought this game? even go to offline events. Your argument here doesn't go very far. The majority of people will probably never turn on the game clock because they don't know where it is or don't find a need for it. Just because those people don't think about using it doesn't make it an unfair advantage for those that use it. Personally, I'd rather listen to actual music when I play games. The other players can go ahead and listen to timing inject larva sounds all they want. Good for them if it gives them that much more of an advantage. Maybe I don't deserve to win that badly if I lose to something so minute. If I wanted to make a 25 second timer to chrono boost I could. Hell, I can make my iPhone do that... it'll vibrate in my pocket. Doesn't mean I will. I don't need it. Good for people who need it, itll make them a better player until they don't need it. Until they get there, I wouldn't worry about the masses of scrubs that play inject larva music. I don't condone maphacking though, but thats an entirely different story. This other stuff is seriously "who gives a shit"... | ||
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PoP
France15446 Posts
On September 24 2010 09:06 rS.Sinatra wrote: I know you are all for game sense and all.. but everyone has access to a stop-watch that they can tape to the side of their monitor.. .just because you don't think of it doesn't make it an unfair advantage. It makes the other person smarter. Well, but it's cheating. Not maphacking-like cheating but still cheating. Or rather, it used to be like cheating in a game like BW, unless you'd do it against someone who knows about it and is fine with it. Guess it's all about what your definition of a cheat is in the end. Mine is very basic: it's using something that isn't part of the game in order to directly improve one's play during games. You might have a different definition for it. But I myself don't see a big difference between a traditional hack and this, conceptually. It's only different from a purely technical standpoint: Blizzard can't notice it, as it doesn't alter their game. This isn't that big of a deal... a game clock just makes it official that blizzard condones this type of tool in the game. I doubt this hurts the game as much as it improves it. Not to mention it might improve competitiveness in the long run. What do you mean "improve"? That's extremely vague. My view on this is that, in the long run, it will make things quite a bit more boring than they would've been without a clock, all while narrowing the skill ceiling. I'm not sure how that "improves competitiveness". I'd say the only good it can do would be to change absolutely nothing because people never ever use it. I kinda don't believe it though. Also, while running an app that tells you when to inject larva is pretty far-out, you can easily record a timing sound every whatever seconds to inject larva and play it in the background as an MP3 file. Nobody banned music... and who are you to judge on musical preference right? Whatever gives you an advantage your opponent might not have while not breaking any rule is your notion of fair play, right? Nonetheless, as long as you're using it to get a (direct) advantage your opponent might not have: my point still stands. It still fits the same definition I stated above. This isn't blatant map hacking, its using the same resources that the general public uses (aka winamp/windows media player) or a simple clock above your computer and memorizing what time you started playing. No one said it was as bad as map-hacking. Not being as blatant as that does not make it automatically fine though. Your argument here doesn't go very far. The majority of people will probably never turn on the game clock because they don't know where it is or don't find a need for it. Just because those people don't think about using it doesn't make it an unfair advantage for those that use it. This is completely, totally different. It is part of the game now. It's your own fault if you didn't look at the patch changes or don't wanna spend time finding an use for an in-game feature. As long as it's in the game, it's supposed to be used, that's as simple as that. (Anyway, not quoting the rest of the post as I've already made my point pretty obvious here.) | ||
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ReKLiS
United States12 Posts
I have the timer enabled but I hardly have time to look at it when im focused on other things like macro and microing =P | ||
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PoP
France15446 Posts
On September 24 2010 15:39 ReKLiS wrote: I say if they give you another tool to use take advantage of it rather then complain about it. Its like using a saw or a power saw, Think people complained about how much easier it was to use the power saw rather then using the saw? It's fine as long as it's "useful", right? | ||
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On September 24 2010 06:31 skirmisheR wrote: It's about simplifying the game. I don't want a chess game, I want a multitasking game with lots of things to do while microing where the better player wins (just like in BW). we had this discussion a lot for hundreds and hunders of pages seriously, why do you still have such a huge problem accepting that sc2 isn't BW? blizzard doesn't want sc2 to be that mechanical and wants it to be more focussed on intelligent strategies; I'm sure many people appreciate this, I know I do; the fact that I never stood even the slightest chance in BW coming from wc3 (I tried to prepare for sc2 before beta) just because the other one could mass one single unit faster than me never excited me, tbh; the funny thing is, we (at least I) don't like watching pro-BW-matches because better mechanics win, but because strategies win....jaedong/flash both have mastered the mechanics and - again - it comes down to who has better strategies and better meta-game; on the otherhand jaedong/flash would kill everyone and their grandparents with their superior mechanics even if they had like super strategies; with sc2 blizz tried a different approach where a mechanical style doesn't necessarily dominate a creative style; still sc2 is still MILES ahead of other strategy games concerning the mechanics needed.....please be aware of that; with the exception of BW I think there is no RTS game currently out there where you can achieve so much by just outmassing your opponent with core stuff | ||
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