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I read before that creep spread by looking for the next empty space and putting creep there. This is why putting multiple creep tumors down increases creep spread speed because they individually find an empty place to put down creep. Anyways I figured out a way you could use this to spread creep faster, or more specifically further.
I would consider a large goal of creep spread is to connect bases, either your bases or your base to your opponents base. So width of creep is less important than length.
Anyways creep from a tumor can only spread to normal terrain on the same height. So it doesn't spread to impassible/unmovable terrain, or high ground/low ground. Since creep can't spread to these area's, this means that if you build near them creep will spread more quickly. So if you build a creep tumor right next to a cliff the creep will fill out faster than if you built it on open ground. Since the tumor will see that it can't build on the illegal spaces and creep the next legal location.
This means that if you want to connect two bases as fast as possible you should build as close to cliffs as possible. Since the creep will build more forward instead of sideways.
The 2 creep's were started at same time, the one on the left is next to a wall and the one on the right is on open ground. Since the one on the wall has to spread less creep it spread faster.
![[image loading]](http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6798/creepspread.png)
This is a replay of me using this trick
Creep Spread Replay
Edit: 1 potential problem with this trick is that creep can spawn on unconnected high ground if there is creep there, which means that if you are hugging a cliff that starts with a ramp your creep will follow you all the way up the ramp and along the top of the cliff as you hug the wall. In order to prevent this you would have to build the first creep tumor away from the ramp then hug the wall afterwords to prevent creep from going to high ground and slowing creep spread.
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Neat! It's intuitive, but something I never really thought of. Are there any maps where this is really practical? Blistering Sands would be the one that comes to mind for me (main and natural). I suppose it could also work for getting horizontal positions connected in Metalopolis.
It's a tough trade-off though. You sacrifice width and vision for faster spread.
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Or you could just build an extra queen.
And creep does spread up/down cliffs you just need vision on a ramp.
User was warned for this post
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Hmm, I thought creep did spread up and down cliffs, but maybe that's just if its near a ramp? Not sure. Anyone confirm this?
Nm, beat me to it and answered my question before it was asked, nice.
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On September 15 2010 05:59 blitzkrieger wrote:
Or you could just build an extra queen.
And creep does spread up/down cliffs you just need vision on a ramp.
Making an extra queen has nothing to do with connecting bases faster.
Also you don't need a ramp. Creep will spread to any path-able terrain within the turmor's radius that is adjacent to a spot of creep (bolded for being the concise rule that explains a lot of subtle behavior)... The cliff is a 1 tile barrier that cannot contain creep so that's why it doesn't naturally transition from high to low ground. This is also how overlord creep spreads which is why an overlord over a cliff tile will not spread any creep at all.
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On September 15 2010 05:59 blitzkrieger wrote:
Or you could just build an extra queen.
And creep does spread up/down cliffs you just need vision on a ramp.
The point is that its a faster way to spread creep so you wont need an extra queen, or you can have an extra queen and still do this and it would be even faster..
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blitzkrieger, creep only spreads to high ground through ramps, it wont spread to high ground just because you have vision, in fact vision has no impact on creep spread. Vision only effects where you can place down a tumor.
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creep spreads up/down cliffs/ over canyons when you poop it with an overlord for a short time
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If you have an overlord you need to start the creep spread on the are before it will spread. If that makes sense.
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Don't you have 6 colonies on the left path and only 5 on the right?
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comrh: I waited for the creep to fill out of be almost as far forward as possible before putting down the next tumor, since the creep next to the wall spread faster I was able to put down the next tumor sooner. This is why the left had more tumors than the right.
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Really cool man. Thank you for taking the time to post about your findings.
Gonna try it out on a couple of maps to see how I can use it.
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Good find, not sure how practical it is on Blizz' current maps though.
Great for reinforcing units faster, but remember that the creep also has to be wide enough so that the swarm can carry on their usual flanking/surrounding/tomfoolery. Maybe once its near the base then make a big creep circle where the zerg would favorably engage?
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Awesome, thank you for sharing.
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Calgary26004 Posts
Holy shit. This makes so much sense but I have never thought about it. Wow. This will certainly become a hallmark of high level play once it spreads.
Fantastic thread.
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On September 15 2010 06:10 comrh wrote:
Don't you have 6 colonies on the left path and only 5 on the right?
yea... and also your right-hand creep path also angles out and then angles back in, making the total distance longer than it actually appears while the left hand creep tumor just goes in a straight line?
edit: I guess the point is that the creep spreads fast enough so that by the time time cooldown is ready you can place another one at maximum range?
On September 15 2010 06:17 Chill wrote:
once it spreads.
I see what you did there. ^^
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On September 15 2010 06:18 DTown wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 06:10 comrh wrote:
Don't you have 6 colonies on the left path and only 5 on the right? yea... and also your right-hand creep path also angles out and then angles back in, making the total distance longer than it actually appears while the left hand creep tumor just goes in a straight line? edit: I guess the point is that the creep spreads fast enough so that by the time time cooldown is ready you can place another one at maximum range? I see what you did there. ^^
Yeah I think there'd be two ways to show it.
1. Spread only at max range and show how against cliff gets you more tumors faster. (This is what the OP did)
2. Spread as often as possible and compare distance of tumors.
I believe the OP, but would like to see 2 straight down tumors spread using method 2 to show the difference.
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I'm not sure why you'd want to wait until each tumor has maxed out. I just spread as soon the tumor timer comes up. It's rarely maxed out but then it spreads faster. This would mean you'd have the same number of tumors on both sides. Your reasoning if sound would result in a similar differential in movement if it is better, but you'd be further in the same time frame.
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Very interesting!
So in terms of giving you a really fast pathway into the opponents base, you want to keep near cliffs, but in terms of getting a good area to battle on you probably still want to stay away from them so that you get the most surface area to fight on and get better concaves and surrounds.
Follow up test:
I would say based on this and what I've observed it's like 99% going to be the case, but how about with overlords? If you're trying to set up a path faster do you also want to set up your overlords near cliffs? Also means that the habit I have of spreading the overlords all at once might be less than ideal and I might want to send more overlords to set up a path then bring some back (so that the overlords aren't exposed) and setting up creep areas probably desires more overlords than I had been using.
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Odd, the replay says it makes reference to a mod that is no longer available....
Interesting concept though, and you can just use ovies to fill in the gaps whenever.
Edit: hmm, replay works now, werid
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EPT
