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Tournament winners since release - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Arakash
Profile Joined March 2009
Germany124 Posts
September 13 2010 19:39 GMT
#161
i can't hear the whole "the maps are imbalanced" thing. You CANT say "the maps are imbalanced" or "the game is imbalanced" because BOTH are tools to balance the races.
In my opinion "maps that suit Zerg more" is the same as a Zerg buff via patch...
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
September 13 2010 19:41 GMT
#162
On September 14 2010 04:25 Backpack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2010 04:00 Gigaudas wrote:
On September 14 2010 03:56 Backpack wrote:
So tournament win statistics after 1.5 months is how we are going to determine balance?

*sigh*


In combination with a lot of other similar statistics lately, I don't see how we can not discuss the state of Zerg. And Terran. And as an effect of that, all races.


The game is brand new and people are already spending more time discussing balance than playing.


God these posts piss me off. No, I would assume a great majority people are not spending more time discussing balance. In fact, if players are anything like me, it would be a mere fraction, and I frequent these forums more than most people.

I go and play ~4 hrs every other day, then I spend maybe 20 minutes actually writing up posts each time? Sure, I may spend more time browsing the forums, but there's some people actually enjoy discussing balance, as surprising as that might be to you. Many people browse TL in between games, when they aren't in the mood for a game, when they are waiting for someone, when they are work (aka me right now), etc. People need to stop bitching about "people should play more QQ less," because it's 10x worse than the people actually whining.
DoXa
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Switzerland1448 Posts
September 13 2010 19:46 GMT
#163
On September 14 2010 01:40 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
A silent Zerg tear has been shed by this sheep.


RxN
Profile Joined May 2010
United States255 Posts
September 13 2010 19:47 GMT
#164
On September 14 2010 04:09 Rabiator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2010 02:11 Escape wrote:


Tournament wins by race:

[image loading] - 48[image loading]
[image loading] - 22[image loading]
[image loading] - 4[image loading]

Tournament winners by race:

[image loading] - 21[image loading]
[image loading] - 12[image loading]
[image loading] - 2[image loading]



I think you also need to include the % of race entry to make this more meaningful.
example: if 75% terran entries gave 75% terran winners, then it's pretty "balanced".

Finally someone with at least a minimum amount of knowledge how to look at statistics without a blind eye.

If there are only a handful of Zerg in each tournament the number of Zerg winners has to be lower than the rest and the "we are so underpowered" propaganda from the Zerg has quite a lot of people not even start playing the race because they think it is too hard. Everyone likes to win and its not a good idea to play a race which is branded with a big sign of "LOSER" by the loudest propaganda across all forums.

Sure there are hardships for the Zerg race, but these arent caused by other races being overpowered, but rather by the map design and their currently too small size.


Have you bought the game yet or are you still basing your opinions on VODs and user streams? You're the last person that should be criticizing anyone in these threads.
Hunch
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada336 Posts
September 13 2010 19:55 GMT
#165
cool post, really shows something with the races though... :S

IdrA needs to enter more tourneys no matter how small they are! i want his reps :D
I have a Hunch.770
Apolo
Profile Joined May 2010
Portugal1259 Posts
September 13 2010 19:58 GMT
#166
OP, would it be possible to add entries in tournaments by race as well? So we could draw any conclusion other than that there are many terrans winning tournaments..
Uhh Negative
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1090 Posts
September 13 2010 20:00 GMT
#167
Go Dimaga! In a world dominated by Terrans, one zerg stands up to the challenge. Of course Sheth and idrA are very good too.
Senx
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Sweden5901 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-13 20:03:39
September 13 2010 20:01 GMT
#168
Community: Can you talk a little bit about the balance of SC2?

Blizzard: Sure, so we feel the balance between races is good right now, every race is close to 50% win ratio on the ladders.

Community: But don't you see that the imbalance amongst tournaments and top players, isn't that what you should be balancing for anyway?

Blizzard
: We really like to look at statistics when we balance the game, so according to our metrics, its looking good.

Community: Could you answer the question directly instead?

Blizzard:

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
"trash micro but win - its marine" MC commentary during HSC 4
Fitz
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada77 Posts
September 13 2010 20:02 GMT
#169
On September 14 2010 04:09 Rabiator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2010 02:11 Escape wrote:


Tournament wins by race:

[image loading] - 48[image loading]
[image loading] - 22[image loading]
[image loading] - 4[image loading]

Tournament winners by race:

[image loading] - 21[image loading]
[image loading] - 12[image loading]
[image loading] - 2[image loading]



I think you also need to include the % of race entry to make this more meaningful.
example: if 75% terran entries gave 75% terran winners, then it's pretty "balanced".

Finally someone with at least a minimum amount of knowledge how to look at statistics without a blind eye.

If there are only a handful of Zerg in each tournament the number of Zerg winners has to be lower than the rest and the "we are so underpowered" propaganda from the Zerg has quite a lot of people not even start playing the race because they think it is too hard. Everyone likes to win and its not a good idea to play a race which is branded with a big sign of "LOSER" by the loudest propaganda across all forums.

Sure there are hardships for the Zerg race, but these arent caused by other races being overpowered, but rather by the map design and their currently too small size.


Don't you think you might be the one looking at these statistic with a blind eye, your theory is ridiculous, pro players will pick zerg less because there's negative propaganda going around the race ?

No realy, top players pick the race with with they believe they'll obtain the best results, those statistics lean (strongly) toward terrans and if you think otherwise you're the one not looking at them straight.

OT, NJ MorroW, you're the one tearing it up there.
lol
Backpack
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1776 Posts
September 13 2010 20:02 GMT
#170
On September 14 2010 04:41 FabledIntegral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2010 04:25 Backpack wrote:
On September 14 2010 04:00 Gigaudas wrote:
On September 14 2010 03:56 Backpack wrote:
So tournament win statistics after 1.5 months is how we are going to determine balance?

*sigh*


In combination with a lot of other similar statistics lately, I don't see how we can not discuss the state of Zerg. And Terran. And as an effect of that, all races.


The game is brand new and people are already spending more time discussing balance than playing.


God these posts piss me off. No, I would assume a great majority people are not spending more time discussing balance. In fact, if players are anything like me, it would be a mere fraction, and I frequent these forums more than most people.

I go and play ~4 hrs every other day, then I spend maybe 20 minutes actually writing up posts each time? Sure, I may spend more time browsing the forums, but there's some people actually enjoy discussing balance, as surprising as that might be to you. Many people browse TL in between games, when they aren't in the mood for a game, when they are waiting for someone, when they are work (aka me right now), etc. People need to stop bitching about "people should play more QQ less," because it's 10x worse than the people actually whining.


Overreact much?

I can see why you dislike people who share my opinion but we aren't the ones who are plaguing the main page of every forum with countless "balance discussions" AKA zerg tears. Im just sick of every thread on TL either blatantly whining or (in the case of this thread) posting some random statistic that hints at imbalance and then everyone goes crazy over it.
"You people need to just generally care a lot less about everything." -Zatic
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-13 20:03:50
September 13 2010 20:03 GMT
#171
On September 14 2010 04:09 Rabiator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2010 02:11 Escape wrote:


Tournament wins by race:

[image loading] - 48[image loading]
[image loading] - 22[image loading]
[image loading] - 4[image loading]

Tournament winners by race:

[image loading] - 21[image loading]
[image loading] - 12[image loading]
[image loading] - 2[image loading]



I think you also need to include the % of race entry to make this more meaningful.
example: if 75% terran entries gave 75% terran winners, then it's pretty "balanced".

Finally someone with at least a minimum amount of knowledge how to look at statistics without a blind eye.

If there are only a handful of Zerg in each tournament the number of Zerg winners has to be lower than the rest and the "we are so underpowered" propaganda from the Zerg has quite a lot of people not even start playing the race because they think it is too hard. .


Actually that is terrible logic. The amount of a specific race within the bracket has no weight on who wins. There could be 95% Protoss and a split of 5% between Terran and Zerg but if Terran and Zerg win it doesn't state that those 2 races are overpowered just because there are less than them. Same goes if Protoss win it doesn't mean there would be balance. That issue is more an issue of WHY there are more players playing a race more than other. This could include balance but it has far too many factors to pinpoint on any sole issue.

So really people asking for entry really aren't thinking about this logically


Zinbiel
Profile Joined October 2008
Sweden878 Posts
September 13 2010 20:06 GMT
#172
On September 14 2010 04:39 Arakash wrote:
i can't hear the whole "the maps are imbalanced" thing. You CANT say "the maps are imbalanced" or "the game is imbalanced" because BOTH are tools to balance the races.
In my opinion "maps that suit Zerg more" is the same as a Zerg buff via patch...

Finally someone who gets it. Maps and racial stats are intertwined in making the fragile thing that is balance. I also love these self-proclaimed terran statistic experts. What about you calculating the likelihood of finding 5% zerg tournament wins given 25% zerg, 30% protoss, 45% terran contestants if the races had equal chances of winning against each other?
Backho fan since 080416. Favourite terran: Mind. Favourite Zerg: Jaedong.
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
September 13 2010 20:06 GMT
#173
On September 14 2010 05:02 Backpack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2010 04:41 FabledIntegral wrote:
On September 14 2010 04:25 Backpack wrote:
On September 14 2010 04:00 Gigaudas wrote:
On September 14 2010 03:56 Backpack wrote:
So tournament win statistics after 1.5 months is how we are going to determine balance?

*sigh*


In combination with a lot of other similar statistics lately, I don't see how we can not discuss the state of Zerg. And Terran. And as an effect of that, all races.


The game is brand new and people are already spending more time discussing balance than playing.


God these posts piss me off. No, I would assume a great majority people are not spending more time discussing balance. In fact, if players are anything like me, it would be a mere fraction, and I frequent these forums more than most people.

I go and play ~4 hrs every other day, then I spend maybe 20 minutes actually writing up posts each time? Sure, I may spend more time browsing the forums, but there's some people actually enjoy discussing balance, as surprising as that might be to you. Many people browse TL in between games, when they aren't in the mood for a game, when they are waiting for someone, when they are work (aka me right now), etc. People need to stop bitching about "people should play more QQ less," because it's 10x worse than the people actually whining.


Overreact much?

I can see why you dislike people who share my opinion but we aren't the ones who are plaguing the main page of every forum with countless "balance discussions" AKA zerg tears. Im just sick of every thread on TL either blatantly whining or (in the case of this thread) posting some random statistic that hints at imbalance and then everyone goes crazy over it.


I would say the forums are plagued almost equally with people whining about the people whining about imbalance. Maybe not quite as much, but it's incredibly noticable. The only difference is one side is at least complaining about the game, and something relevant, and provides information in their whining posts. The otherside just whines...
Fitz
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada77 Posts
September 13 2010 20:07 GMT
#174
On September 14 2010 05:02 Backpack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2010 04:41 FabledIntegral wrote:
On September 14 2010 04:25 Backpack wrote:
On September 14 2010 04:00 Gigaudas wrote:
On September 14 2010 03:56 Backpack wrote:
So tournament win statistics after 1.5 months is how we are going to determine balance?

*sigh*


In combination with a lot of other similar statistics lately, I don't see how we can not discuss the state of Zerg. And Terran. And as an effect of that, all races.


The game is brand new and people are already spending more time discussing balance than playing.


God these posts piss me off. No, I would assume a great majority people are not spending more time discussing balance. In fact, if players are anything like me, it would be a mere fraction, and I frequent these forums more than most people.

I go and play ~4 hrs every other day, then I spend maybe 20 minutes actually writing up posts each time? Sure, I may spend more time browsing the forums, but there's some people actually enjoy discussing balance, as surprising as that might be to you. Many people browse TL in between games, when they aren't in the mood for a game, when they are waiting for someone, when they are work (aka me right now), etc. People need to stop bitching about "people should play more QQ less," because it's 10x worse than the people actually whining.


Overreact much?

I can see why you dislike people who share my opinion but we aren't the ones who are plaguing the main page of every forum with countless "balance discussions" AKA zerg tears. Im just sick of every thread on TL either blatantly whining or (in the case of this thread) posting some random statistic that hints at imbalance and then everyone goes crazy over it.


Random statistic that hints at imbalance ?

Those statistics are very interesting, not bias and pertinent, as for the OP, he never wrote anything about imbalances, he just posted raw data.

The fact it's turning into an other 'imbalance thread' is because some parts of the stats are just burning wrong...

With a better distribution we'd just all be happy to see who's the top player getting the best results.
lol
velvetone
Profile Joined June 2010
Australia91 Posts
September 13 2010 20:09 GMT
#175
On September 14 2010 05:01 Senx wrote:
Community: Can you talk a little bit about the balance of SC2?

Blizzard: Sure, so we feel the balance between races is good right now, every race is close to 50% win ratio on the ladders.

Community: But don't you see that the imbalance amongst tournaments and top players, isn't that what you should be balancing for anyway?

Blizzard
: We really like to look at statistics when we balance the game, so according to our metrics, its looking good.

Community: Could you answer the question directly instead?

Blizzard:

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


i just shit my self
Tazza
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Korea (South)1678 Posts
September 13 2010 20:10 GMT
#176
This is just sad for zergs all around
in7e.sCream
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany48 Posts
September 13 2010 20:11 GMT
#177
blizzard said so often that they balance the races in regards of the win% of the races, they should better look at this then at their pathetic ladder rankings TT
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
September 13 2010 20:15 GMT
#178
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/userstream.php?user=PhoeNixWeRRa

this man is making the zerg race look so balanced.
(I didn't took check or cool because they make the zerg race look VERY overpowered)

What I mean is, I'm not a great player, just average, perhaps a little better average if I took time to play a lot. But I never, ever felt that I lost because something is op. I can always find what I did wrong, what mistakes I made, that cost me the game.
Terran maybe op, but I think the sc2 community is not very mature, and a lot of people see imbalance too much. There is certainly imbalance in sc2, but I'm sure that even without imbalance, there would be whine nerf X threads.
kickinhead
Profile Joined December 2008
Switzerland2069 Posts
September 13 2010 20:20 GMT
#179
On September 14 2010 05:15 MrCon wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/userstream.php?user=PhoeNixWeRRa

this man is making the zerg race look so balanced.
(I didn't took check or cool because they make the zerg race look VERY overpowered)

What I mean is, I'm not a great player, just average, perhaps a little better average if I took time to play a lot. But I never, ever felt that I lost because something is op. I can always find what I did wrong, what mistakes I made, that cost me the game.
Terran maybe op, but I think the sc2 community is not very mature, and a lot of people see imbalance too much. There is certainly imbalance in sc2, but I'm sure that even without imbalance, there would be whine nerf X threads.


So balancing is made just to stop ppl from whining?
https://soundcloud.com/thesamplethief
Konsume
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada466 Posts
September 13 2010 20:23 GMT
#180
On September 14 2010 05:15 MrCon wrote:
Terran maybe op, but I think the sc2 community is not very mature, and a lot of people see imbalance too much. There is certainly imbalance in sc2, but I'm sure that even without imbalance, there would be whine nerf X threads.


I'm pretty sure that you're 100% right... but for those that cares about balance in an "E-SPORT" game and care about the game itself... it does matter.

I personaly have no fun at all when I see other races just a+move in my base and I can't do shiet till I get my T3 units. Man I just got back to BW for the lulz... and well... I've been playing it for 3 days now since I enjoy it more. Balance just seems to be right and every races seems to be on the same level of difficulty.

Guess I'll come back when patch 1.1 hit the selves :D
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
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