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I know others have mentioned it, but I will reiterate -
I would suggest adding (in spoiler tags) the name and dates (month/year would be sufficient if you can't get exact days) of every tournament that was included in the sample you took to create these numbers. SC Center exists because there are numerous tournaments and competitions every day, so it would help to see which ones are being included and which ones are being left out.
I do not mean to attack the idea of the thread or claim that it is invalid because it may not encompass every single paying tournament that has happened thus far. I simply think it would help the validity of the post.
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On September 14 2010 03:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I love threads like this
it boosts my self esteem every time I see someone who knows absolutely nothing about elementary statistics make some conclusion with insufficient evidence
-we have terrans dominating the top of the ladder
-blizzard themselves admits that reapers & tanks are too powerful currently
-majority of top terrans believe terran is too strong
-majority of top zergs believe terran is too strong, and that zerg is too weak; some have even considered switching to terran.
-and now we see that terrans are dominating tournaments as well, with zerg being massively under-represented in tournament wins.
I'm sure there's even more evidence scattered around various forums.
the amount of evidence supporting a zerg and/or terran imbalance is staggering. where the hell are you getting the idea that there's 'insufficient evidence'?
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On September 14 2010 02:01 phuzi0n wrote:
I'd be more interested in a "Total Winnings" ($$$) list. Some guys play in lots of small events that don't reward much while others only play in a few big events that reward more.
Getting 2nd or 3rd place at a major LAN event carries a lot more prestige and reward than winning 10 small weekly online events, but if you win lots of small events then it may be more profitable than getting 8th at a major event.
I bet Morrow would be up there at the top, but it would be nice to see this.
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Finally, proof to show why I'll always support the progamer which does NOT play terran. Go Go zerg/protoss players.
For some reason Terran players (regardless of skill) never seem to impress me. Its like watching an adult wrestle a child. It may be funny but not impressive. Furthermore, I just dont like the current theme in videogames. From Halo to crysis to SC2, theres always this big badass human which tears things up. Why cant there be some cool alien hero protagonists?
When the game finally reaches a level where balance is near perfect then only will I actually look further than a players' race to see if I should cheer for them lol.
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im confused by this. i mean obviously there are less zerg players than terran so there should be more terran wins but 48-4 doesn't feel right...
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On September 14 2010 02:36 GagnarTheUnruly wrote:
Here's the racial breakdown for the starleague winners since 2007:
P - 3 wins
Z - 10 wins
T - 7 wins
Does that mean broodwar is imbalanced? No. There are just a lot of factors that are going to result in uneven racial distributions among tournament winners even if everything is totally fair. Tournament wins are arguably the most important consequence of game balance, but are also pretty much useless in determining game balance.
10 : 7 : 3 is a hell of a lot different than 24 : 11 : 2
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On September 14 2010 03:32 Ghazwan wrote:Z players just don't know how to use nydus and stuff! + Show Spoiler +
Exactly: if they'd use the Nydus Worm properly, there would be ONLY Zerg's winning Tournaments! AND Korean Zergs use Nydus Worm, that's why Zerg wins EVERYTHING in Korea!
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On September 14 2010 03:16 Toboe wrote:
I know others have mentioned it, but I will reiterate -
I would suggest adding (in spoiler tags) the name and dates (month/year would be sufficient if you can't get exact days) of every tournament that was included in the sample you took to create these numbers. SC Center exists because there are numerous tournaments and competitions every day, so it would help to see which ones are being included and which ones are being left out.
I do not mean to attack the idea of the thread or claim that it is invalid because it may not encompass every single paying tournament that has happened thus far. I simply think it would help the validity of the post.
I'm going out soon so now time to do it now, though I might when I get back.
Basically, all I did was take the results from this page:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues
Then check this page to see which tournaments were missing:
http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/events.php
And added the results from the Openwolf, Gosucoaching, Fisher, Icarus, SC2tv.ru and LSGamer cups and then the 2 WTA tournaments and the GOMtv Star2gether Siege from Korea.
The other tournaments on there were either already included in the Team Liquid list or were small amateur tournaments lacking any high level players. In that sense there's an element of subjectivity to what is and isn't included but if anyone can provide any high level tournament results I'm missing I'll be happy to add them to the OP.
Speaking of which, I just realised I forgot to add the US Craft Cup results, which I'll do now.
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really bad list to gauge player's skill, but interesting list regardless as just something to note w/o much weight. doesn't really mean anything at all since koreans don't participate in majority of those tournys that foreigners keep track of.
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On September 14 2010 03:34 kickinhead wrote:Exactly: if they'd use the Nydus Worm properly, there would be ONLY Zerg's winning Tournaments! AND Korean Zergs use Nydus Worm, that's why Zerg wins EVERYTHING in Korea!
Why do ppl keep saying this?
Zerg is not dominating Korea , terran is.
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not dominating, more like zergs are doing fine in terms of korean top 100. there is also cool/fruitdealer who has a good chance of winning gsl.
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United States12607 Posts
Thanks a lot for this, very useful topic. The lack of Zerg wins is truly staggering 
Hopefully we can see the Swarm in the later stages of tourneys again soon.
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What I find most depressing about this is that zerg players come in here and say "hey look at how many terrans and protoss are on the top". Sorry what? Terran has twice the ammount of wins over protoss aswell and that matchup is also skewed in favour of terran. Unfortunately none of the key PvT issues are being dealt with in the patch. Instead they nerf out early defense. Well guess what, reapers isn't the problem early vs terran, marines and marauders are. I'm guessing 9rax marauder is going to dominate protosses until blizzard patches again.
It's what I hate most about the terran vs zerg imba. It overshadows the fact that protosses are struggling against good TvP players aswell. Like 90% of the good PvT builds are all ins. They need to change the dynamic of that matchup aswell. Either that or change the maps so that a protoss can fast expand easier.
Awesome to have two swedes in top3 btw!
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On September 14 2010 03:42 FantaFunL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 03:34 kickinhead wrote:On September 14 2010 03:32 Ghazwan wrote:Z players just don't know how to use nydus and stuff! + Show Spoiler + Exactly: if they'd use the Nydus Worm properly, there would be ONLY Zerg's winning Tournaments! AND Korean Zergs use Nydus Worm, that's why Zerg wins EVERYTHING in Korea! Why do ppl keep saying this? Zerg is not dominating Korea , terran is.
.. it's a joke man.
sarcasm and stuff. 
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On September 14 2010 03:42 FantaFunL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 03:34 kickinhead wrote:On September 14 2010 03:32 Ghazwan wrote:Z players just don't know how to use nydus and stuff! + Show Spoiler + Exactly: if they'd use the Nydus Worm properly, there would be ONLY Zerg's winning Tournaments! AND Korean Zergs use Nydus Worm, that's why Zerg wins EVERYTHING in Korea! Why do ppl keep saying this? Zerg is not dominating Korea , terran is.
People do keep saying this, but these guys are being sarcastic.
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im a terran player and the lack of zerg victories makes my mouth taste bad. it kind of sucks playing an overpowered race because I don't feel I deserve my wins...
its just ridiculous how I can start every game and not be afraid of anything from zergs... sure he'll eventually go muta's and ultra's but I can pressure him with a number of things before then.
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On September 14 2010 02:36 GagnarTheUnruly wrote:
Here's the racial breakdown for the starleague winners since 2007:
P - 3 wins
Z - 10 wins
T - 7 wins
Does that mean broodwar is imbalanced? No. There are just a lot of factors that are going to result in uneven racial distributions among tournament winners even if everything is totally fair. Tournament wins are arguably the most important consequence of game balance, but are also pretty much useless in determining game balance.
Dude, Brood War is not balanced. Sure, it's very balanced compared to other games but the individual match ups are not balanced, the maps will always favor one race more than the other and... it's impossible for a game to be perfectly balanced. When players become as good as Brood War gamers are today then balance will decide a lot of games.
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On September 14 2010 03:50 Bosu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 03:42 FantaFunL wrote:On September 14 2010 03:34 kickinhead wrote:On September 14 2010 03:32 Ghazwan wrote:Z players just don't know how to use nydus and stuff! + Show Spoiler + Exactly: if they'd use the Nydus Worm properly, there would be ONLY Zerg's winning Tournaments! AND Korean Zergs use Nydus Worm, that's why Zerg wins EVERYTHING in Korea! Why do ppl keep saying this? Zerg is not dominating Korea , terran is. People do keep saying this, but these guys are being sarcastic.
I was being sarcastic, but most of ppl saying that really mean it... Besides, Terran isn't really dominating as much as here in Korea. Most players even think P is the strongest race atm (ppl like Tester, JangMinChul (IrOn), etc.)
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EPT
