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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On September 14 2010 02:11 Escape wrote: Tournament wins by race: ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Ticon_small.png) - 48![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/common/gold.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Picon_small.png) - 22![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Zicon_small.png) - 4Tournament winners by race: - 21 - 12 - 2I think you also need to include the % of race entry to make this more meaningful. example: if 75% terran entries gave 75% terran winners, then it's pretty "balanced". [/QUOTE] If that many pros are choosing to play terran and not zerg that indicates a problem in itself. | ||
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jiabung
United States720 Posts
On September 14 2010 02:18 Escape wrote: I respectfully disagree. Just because there's a lot of players chose Terran, it doesn't necessary mean it is OP or anything. Just based purely on the numbers it is obvious zerg is underrepresented in tournament wins anyway. For tournament wins by race, 4/74 is just about a 5% win rate for zerg. A random look at a sample weekly tourney shows about 25% of its players as zerg. ] Besides, it is a daunting task to compile race entry percentages considering tournaments like go4sc2 field pools of 512 players. | ||
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MoreFaSho
United States1427 Posts
On September 14 2010 02:24 tomatriedes wrote: I think you also need to include the % of race entry to make this more meaningful. example: if 75% terran entries gave 75% terran winners, then it's pretty "balanced". If that many pros are choosing to play terran and not zerg that indicates a problem in itself.[/QUOTE] What you're saying, while technically true, is wrong. It's the equivalent of saying "just because this die has rolled a 6 150/200 times doesn't NECESSARILY mean it's a biased die". This could be true, but you'd have to be pretty dense and biased to think that you don't have strong evidence that the die is not a fair one. | ||
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SilverPotato
United States560 Posts
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Escape
Canada306 Posts
- 48 - 22 - 4Tournament winners by race: - 21 - 12 - 2I think you also need to include the % of race entry to make this more meaningful. example: if 75% terran entries gave 75% terran winners, then it's pretty "balanced". Not really, since there has to be a reason 75% of of the entries are Terran. I respectfully disagree. Just because there's a lot of players chose Terran, it doesn't necessary mean it is OP or anything. Yes it does, because the numbers entering the tourny arn't just a representation of total players by race, it's a representation of how many top level players are that race. A terran who is of the skill level to do decent in these tournies is objectively a lot less skilled then a zerg who can do the same. I understand what you are saying, "Top players don't just pick a race at random". However, it is not a certainty. My point is that by including a % of race entry, it would eliminate such uncertainty in the numbers and provide a much better picture of the top level playing field. | ||
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Trizz
Netherlands1318 Posts
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Crais
Canada2136 Posts
Would be neat to see a prize money total too  | ||
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ZaaaaaM
Netherlands1828 Posts
On September 14 2010 02:29 Escape wrote: I respectfully disagree. Just because there's a lot of players chose Terran, it doesn't necessary mean it is OP or anything. Actually, it does mean that. Yeah you said 'necessary' but if that would prevent your comment from being countered by anything and dont make the post. These huge differences aren't because most people thing terran is the most fun to play, pro's HAVE to make good results and thus have to switch, also some people get annoying by playing zerg and switch and if you have no clue about what race to pick, why would you pick the weaker one? | ||
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epicdoom
United States489 Posts
edit: No it doesn't mean it's OP. If blizzard released heart of the swarm before wings of liberty, I guarantee that we would see more zergs than terrans. | ||
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ZaaaaaM
Netherlands1828 Posts
On September 14 2010 02:31 epicdoom wrote: is there any way to get the total tournament stats before release? It seems like not very many terrans were winning tournaments during beta. edit: No it doesn't mean it's OP. If blizzard released heart of the swarm before wings of liberty, I guarantee that we would see more zergs than terrans. Believe me, not a single player that won a tournament on that list picked terran because they played the campaign. Lol. | ||
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Piski
Finland3461 Posts
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Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
Funny reading all the Terran comments trying to justify these ridiculously imbalanced statistics. | ||
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GagnarTheUnruly
United States655 Posts
P - 3 wins Z - 10 wins T - 7 wins Does that mean broodwar is imbalanced? No. There are just a lot of factors that are going to result in uneven racial distributions among tournament winners even if everything is totally fair. Tournament wins are arguably the most important consequence of game balance, but are also pretty much useless in determining game balance. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 14 2010 02:31 epicdoom wrote: is there any way to get the total tournament stats before release? It seems like not very many terrans were winning tournaments during beta. edit: No it doesn't mean it's OP. If blizzard released heart of the swarm before wings of liberty, I guarantee that we would see more zergs than terrans. I highly doubt that. Protoss appeals the most to almost every casual user, especially after BW where they were undoubtedly the most popular amongst casuals. Campaign has little to do with it. Anyways anyone I talk to on the ladder as protoss (I don't know any zergs) that suck, (aka bronze or below) all gave up on Protoss because "I don't know how to counter marauders." My roommate recently switched to Zerg because he couldn't beat MMM in PvT, although he was disappointed when he had the same result ZvT. He has diminished into a retard player tho that 7 pools everygame. | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On September 14 2010 02:31 epicdoom wrote: is there any way to get the total tournament stats before release? It seems like not very many terrans were winning tournaments during beta. edit: No it doesn't mean it's OP. If blizzard released heart of the swarm before wings of liberty, I guarantee that we would see more zergs than terrans. Lol. We're talking about pros here not average players. They don't choose their race based on the SP campaign. | ||
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jiabung
United States720 Posts
On September 14 2010 02:31 epicdoom wrote: is there any way to get the total tournament stats before release? It seems like not very many terrans were winning tournaments during beta. edit: No it doesn't mean it's OP. If blizzard released heart of the swarm before wings of liberty, I guarantee that we would see more zergs than terrans. So because the first campaign features terran, that means all the top pros decided to pick terran? I really doubt players like morrow were like "oh hey, I learned sooo much from playing campaign as terran that I'm just going to stick with this race". And you really shouldn't guarantee random BS that you can't prove and can't actually guarantee. | ||
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Escape
Canada306 Posts
On September 14 2010 02:35 Fantistic wrote: This thread is starting to look awfully familiar. Funny reading all the Terran comments trying to justify these ridiculously imbalanced statistics. sorry, zerg player here. Just trying to suggest that these data alone is not enough to prove that terran is OP. | ||
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cuppatea
United Kingdom1401 Posts
On September 14 2010 02:31 epicdoom wrote: is there any way to get the total tournament stats before release? It seems like not very many terrans were winning tournaments during beta. Just counted up the totals from the liquipedia beta tournament results page. This isn't a complete list and is missing a lot of tournaments but here are the results: Beta tournament wins by race: - 33 - 25 - 28 | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On September 14 2010 02:31 epicdoom wrote: is there any way to get the total tournament stats before release? It seems like not very many terrans were winning tournaments during beta. edit: No it doesn't mean it's OP. If blizzard released heart of the swarm before wings of liberty, I guarantee that we would see more zergs than terrans. people who play the game seriously arent gonna give a damn about what the race in the campaign is. Your reasoning only explains why theres lots of Terrans in bronze/silver/gold/platinum league. Look at all the ex sc1 pro gamers and what race they picked (it was rarely Terran.) OK, that's all the imba discussion I'll do for this month Anyways, very nice OP, nice to see some straight facts and to see who's doing well. Didn't know Morrow was that dominating, nice though  Of course it has a lot to do with how many tourneys they participate in, impressive nonetheless. Nice to see Socke as #2 Protoss as well. | ||
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Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
On September 14 2010 02:24 tomatriedes wrote: I think you also need to include the % of race entry to make this more meaningful. example: if 75% terran entries gave 75% terran winners, then it's pretty "balanced". If that many pros are choosing to play terran and not zerg that indicates a problem in itself.[/QUOTE] Think of the reason why pros are picking Terran over Zerg. Think of the reason why Zergs are not being invited to or qualifying for these tournaments. | ||
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