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Active: 1799 users

July officially announces his move to Starcraft 2 - Page 14

Forum Index > SC2 General
374 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 19 Next All
Vei
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2845 Posts
September 10 2010 22:30 GMT
#261
i don't see what that guy on the first page was banned for expressing his opinion (albeit crudely) about checking expectations for progamers ...

but anyway i'm excited to watch him play
www.justin.tv/veisc2 ~ 720p + commentary
TonyL2
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
England1953 Posts
September 10 2010 22:31 GMT
#262
Go go go July! Will be cheering for you for next season! :D
theqat
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States2856 Posts
September 10 2010 22:32 GMT
#263
On September 11 2010 07:28 Thurokiir wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2010 14:59 deafhobbit wrote:
On September 10 2010 14:49 Grobyc wrote:
On September 10 2010 14:46 deafhobbit wrote:
Sc2 - Where former BW pro gamer retire after they can't keep up with a more APM intensive game.

Actually, July has massive APM. Had well around 500(sometimes 600) in his peak, so I don't think speed is the problem.

and thus switched to a game where the general level of mechanical skill is lower.



Can you prove that? Mechanical skill seems to be on par with each other with extra, mechanics thrown in to make things more attention based read: Larvae/Chrono Boost.

I'd agree with in combat micro but, as it stands thats a dubious assumption due to the novelty of the game everyone makes so many mistakes *watch the GSL* that micro is often not needed to a high regard because you mostly out number or out comp the opposing player.

I have yet to see an example of stark game mechanics where BW requires MORE apm. Yes SC2 has mechanics made simpler but there has been so many more added that I don't see either game having a difference in skill.

Besides, what determines skill in a game isn't the mechanics it'self it's your opponent.


bw definitely requires more apm simply because of mbs vs. no mbs. There's just no arguing that. There's also no arguing that that does not make SC2 a worthless game.
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
September 10 2010 22:34 GMT
#264
This is great news. I REALLY want to see some 800+ APM moves in sc2.
Thurokiir
Profile Joined June 2010
United States779 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-10 22:51:44
September 10 2010 22:50 GMT
#265
On September 11 2010 07:32 theqat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2010 07:28 Thurokiir wrote:
On September 10 2010 14:59 deafhobbit wrote:
On September 10 2010 14:49 Grobyc wrote:
On September 10 2010 14:46 deafhobbit wrote:
Sc2 - Where former BW pro gamer retire after they can't keep up with a more APM intensive game.

Actually, July has massive APM. Had well around 500(sometimes 600) in his peak, so I don't think speed is the problem.

and thus switched to a game where the general level of mechanical skill is lower.



Can you prove that? Mechanical skill seems to be on par with each other with extra, mechanics thrown in to make things more attention based read: Larvae/Chrono Boost.

I'd agree with in combat micro but, as it stands thats a dubious assumption due to the novelty of the game everyone makes so many mistakes *watch the GSL* that micro is often not needed to a high regard because you mostly out number or out comp the opposing player.

I have yet to see an example of stark game mechanics where BW requires MORE apm. Yes SC2 has mechanics made simpler but there has been so many more added that I don't see either game having a difference in skill.

Besides, what determines skill in a game isn't the mechanics it'self it's your opponent.


bw definitely requires more apm simply because of mbs vs. no mbs. There's just no arguing that. There's also no arguing that that does not make SC2 a worthless game.


I think it might be on par and hear me out, the auto targeting for a lot of units is just awful, for a slow high power weapon like the seige tank its awesome but for most units there is a priority kill system that a lot of the time totally overrides player action and requires constant babying in order to kill anything. Read: massive wall of medivacs to draw auto fire. Or SCV rushes that leave scvs still alive at the end of a 200/200 battle.

Yes, there were some aspects of the game made easier but more mechanics and UI elements were added that make this game just as infuriating to play at a high level.

edit: REALLY amped to see what an A-Teamer can do in SC2 we have all our fan boy favorites but this should be something special.
Tahts halo dont worry
xZiGGY
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom801 Posts
September 10 2010 22:58 GMT
#266
yay and woo funtimes to be had by all <3
Meh.
aru
Profile Joined April 2010
183 Posts
September 10 2010 22:59 GMT
#267
On September 11 2010 07:50 Thurokiir wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2010 07:32 theqat wrote:
On September 11 2010 07:28 Thurokiir wrote:
On September 10 2010 14:59 deafhobbit wrote:
On September 10 2010 14:49 Grobyc wrote:
On September 10 2010 14:46 deafhobbit wrote:
Sc2 - Where former BW pro gamer retire after they can't keep up with a more APM intensive game.

Actually, July has massive APM. Had well around 500(sometimes 600) in his peak, so I don't think speed is the problem.

and thus switched to a game where the general level of mechanical skill is lower.



Can you prove that? Mechanical skill seems to be on par with each other with extra, mechanics thrown in to make things more attention based read: Larvae/Chrono Boost.

I'd agree with in combat micro but, as it stands thats a dubious assumption due to the novelty of the game everyone makes so many mistakes *watch the GSL* that micro is often not needed to a high regard because you mostly out number or out comp the opposing player.

I have yet to see an example of stark game mechanics where BW requires MORE apm. Yes SC2 has mechanics made simpler but there has been so many more added that I don't see either game having a difference in skill.

Besides, what determines skill in a game isn't the mechanics it'self it's your opponent.


bw definitely requires more apm simply because of mbs vs. no mbs. There's just no arguing that. There's also no arguing that that does not make SC2 a worthless game.


I think it might be on par and hear me out, the auto targeting for a lot of units is just awful, for a slow high power weapon like the seige tank its awesome but for most units there is a priority kill system that a lot of the time totally overrides player action and requires constant babying in order to kill anything. Read: massive wall of medivacs to draw auto fire. Or SCV rushes that leave scvs still alive at the end of a 200/200 battle.

Yes, there were some aspects of the game made easier but more mechanics and UI elements were added that make this game just as infuriating to play at a high level.

edit: REALLY amped to see what an A-Teamer can do in SC2 we have all our fan boy favorites but this should be something special.


What? MBS = multiple building selection. What does that have to do with auto targeting?
MinoMino
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway1103 Posts
September 10 2010 23:17 GMT
#268
Woooo, it's finally official! Can't wait to see him dominate, I'm sure he will. I also can't wait for who's going to be the next BW pro to make the switch.

Hopefully he can teach us Zergs a thing or two .
Blah.
sudo.era
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States300 Posts
September 10 2010 23:42 GMT
#269
WOOO sauron zerg

Can't wait to watch him win season 2.
blahman3344
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2015 Posts
September 10 2010 23:49 GMT
#270
whoo! Go July!
Once he starts getting serious about SC2, maybe he'll revolutionize ZvT, or any of the other Zer M.U.s =0

I want to see what will happen once other 2 "Top" players announce their move. I'm sure it'll make a big splash into the strategies of SC2.
I like haikus and / I can not lie. You other / brothers can't deny
OnFire
Profile Joined July 2010
324 Posts
September 11 2010 00:17 GMT
#271
This is exactly what SC2 needs to catch momentum and start to grow.
When amazing players like July switches over it sends a very very powerful message about how good SC2 actually is.
HYDRA - EFFORT - LETA
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-11 00:39:03
September 11 2010 00:35 GMT
#272
On September 11 2010 07:28 Thurokiir wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2010 14:59 deafhobbit wrote:
On September 10 2010 14:49 Grobyc wrote:
On September 10 2010 14:46 deafhobbit wrote:
Sc2 - Where former BW pro gamer retire after they can't keep up with a more APM intensive game.

Actually, July has massive APM. Had well around 500(sometimes 600) in his peak, so I don't think speed is the problem.

and thus switched to a game where the general level of mechanical skill is lower.



Can you prove that? Mechanical skill seems to be on par with each other with extra, mechanics thrown in to make things more attention based read: Larvae/Chrono Boost.

I'd agree with in combat micro but, as it stands thats a dubious assumption due to the novelty of the game everyone makes so many mistakes *watch the GSL* that micro is often not needed to a high regard because you mostly out number or out comp the opposing player.

I have yet to see an example of stark game mechanics where BW requires MORE apm. Yes SC2 has mechanics made simpler but there has been so many more added that I don't see either game having a difference in skill.

Besides, what determines skill in a game isn't the mechanics it'self it's your opponent.


There really isn't even an argument that SC2 is more mechanical than BW.

1. No mbs, if you think hitting your queen hotkey and "v"ing every hatchery on the minimap is demanding, imagine having to manually visit each hatchery (on its own hotkey) to start up each unit/reset rally points, it was crazy. As T/P you had to come back to your base every macro cycle and manually hit EVERY building, compared to the W hotkey and barracks grouping. Resetting rally points for 15 gateways took: click on gate>move screen to new rally (location hotkey or minimap click)>click>move screen back to gateways (location hotkey or minimap click). FOR EACH GATEWAY....

2. 12 unit selection cap, in order to move your maxed zerg army you would have to use 6 or 7 hotkeys alone depending on how many lings you had. Then when you lost units from certain hotkeys, you couldn't just shift add them to your hotkeys, you had to find out which ones now had room....massive pain in the ass, and took a shitton of actions.

3. Crappy pathing, if you wanted to move 2 controls of goons up or down a ramp you couldn't just hit 1a, you had to baby the little fuckers up there, or you would literally have 1/2-1/3 of your army just go wandering off across the map trying to find an alternate route.

4. No smartcasting, if you had 7 HT and wanted to storm you couldn't just press T and click because they would all cast stacked storms on the same spot. You had to manually click on each templar individually and target them or clone the storms from far away....took ALOT of clicks.

These basic functions just took many more action to do in BW. The only added thing you have to do in SC2 are the macro mechanics, which take far less time and attention than the things I have outlined.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
1a2a3aPro
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada227 Posts
September 11 2010 00:53 GMT
#273
On September 11 2010 09:35 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2010 07:28 Thurokiir wrote:
On September 10 2010 14:59 deafhobbit wrote:
On September 10 2010 14:49 Grobyc wrote:
On September 10 2010 14:46 deafhobbit wrote:
Sc2 - Where former BW pro gamer retire after they can't keep up with a more APM intensive game.

Actually, July has massive APM. Had well around 500(sometimes 600) in his peak, so I don't think speed is the problem.

and thus switched to a game where the general level of mechanical skill is lower.



Can you prove that? Mechanical skill seems to be on par with each other with extra, mechanics thrown in to make things more attention based read: Larvae/Chrono Boost.

I'd agree with in combat micro but, as it stands thats a dubious assumption due to the novelty of the game everyone makes so many mistakes *watch the GSL* that micro is often not needed to a high regard because you mostly out number or out comp the opposing player.

I have yet to see an example of stark game mechanics where BW requires MORE apm. Yes SC2 has mechanics made simpler but there has been so many more added that I don't see either game having a difference in skill.

Besides, what determines skill in a game isn't the mechanics it'self it's your opponent.


There really isn't even an argument that SC2 is more mechanical than BW.

1. No mbs, if you think hitting your queen hotkey and "v"ing every hatchery on the minimap is demanding, imagine having to manually visit each hatchery (on its own hotkey) to start up each unit/reset rally points, it was crazy. As T/P you had to come back to your base every macro cycle and manually hit EVERY building, compared to the W hotkey and barracks grouping. Resetting rally points for 15 gateways took: click on gate>move screen to new rally (location hotkey or minimap click)>click>move screen back to gateways (location hotkey or minimap click). FOR EACH GATEWAY....

2. 12 unit selection cap, in order to move your maxed zerg army you would have to use 6 or 7 hotkeys alone depending on how many lings you had. Then when you lost units from certain hotkeys, you couldn't just shift add them to your hotkeys, you had to find out which ones now had room....massive pain in the ass, and took a shitton of actions.

3. Crappy pathing, if you wanted to move 2 controls of goons up or down a ramp you couldn't just hit 1a, you had to baby the little fuckers up there, or you would literally have 1/2-1/3 of your army just go wandering off across the map trying to find an alternate route.

4. No smartcasting, if you had 7 HT and wanted to storm you couldn't just press T and click because they would all cast stacked storms on the same spot. You had to manually click on each templar individually and target them or clone the storms from far away....took ALOT of clicks.

These basic functions just took many more action to do in BW. The only added thing you have to do in SC2 are the macro mechanics, which take far less time and attention than the things I have outlined.


This.

Though I am interested as to why a long time pro like July has the opinion that "I think the game has gotten more difficult compared to the original". Maybe he's just suffering trying to figure out Zerg in Sc2.

He should be successful at SC2. A lot of the new progamers are so practice and mechanics drilled that I feel they have less creativity, they don't have the ingenuity that some of the older players have. There are players in the top 25 of Kespa ranking that have never made their own build - they just execute existing ones with superior mechanics.

July is not like this. He played during a time when creativity and innovation thrived, exactly the kind of gameplay that is needed in SC2 as it is a new game. I won't say he was innovative DURING the game, but he may have been. It's difficult to say because we never know what was practiced beforehand, and what few rare moments were calculated and planned during play. Certainly many progamers in interviews have said that what seemed like a sudden reaction to their opponent (some sort of hang-bang attack), was in fact practiced often [the first few times I was shocked to hear this, it seemed so sudden, so reactionary in many cases], and wasn't just done in the moment. Regardless, July has shown he can have very devastating reactions to his opponents, whether in real time or practiced beforehand - drone drill vs BeSt on Troy during his golden mouse OSL comes to mind - which is the kind of play that I think can be very successful.

Look out idra. There's two new zergs in town, and we all know you feel ZvZ is your worst SC2 matchup.
KaluGOSU
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States171 Posts
September 11 2010 01:18 GMT
#274
OMG !!! July, IM SOO HAPPY. YAY!!! good for julyzerg!!!! <3
Halt! Thou shalt not pass. Thou hast much anger, young one
ibreakurface
Profile Joined June 2010
United States664 Posts
September 11 2010 01:29 GMT
#275
What race will he be playing?
:) I play zerg. FOX AND KT ROLSTER COASTER FAN! Because I love everyone. Except bisu.
Khalleb
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1909 Posts
September 11 2010 01:31 GMT
#276
he is already playing and he is zerg
Liquid'Nony: "I only needed one probe to take down idra. I had to upgrade to a zealot for strelok."
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
September 11 2010 01:33 GMT
#277
nice! so exciting to see top pros moving over
Darkn3ss
Profile Joined November 2009
United States717 Posts
September 11 2010 01:41 GMT
#278
I wonder what can someone do with 500APM in SC2 XD
Dont quote me boy, cuz I aint saying shhh...
SevenAteNine
Profile Joined February 2010
126 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-11 01:59:03
September 11 2010 01:44 GMT
#279
Honestly if you want to see what pro SCBW players that will be switch to SC2 just check when their contracts end with their current teams. I totally expect Nada to switch over to SC2 when his current contract ends.

there is very little reason for any new talent to join SCBW and little reason for players who arnt currently successful to stay.
omnomnomnom
Krohm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Canada1857 Posts
September 11 2010 01:50 GMT
#280
I can't wait for more bw progamers to switch over to Sc2, I didn't mind July. Although I was more of a yellow/chojja fan.
Not bad for a cat toy.
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