• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:06
CEST 16:06
KST 23:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202537Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments3[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder9EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced53BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Interview with Chris "ChanmanV" Chan Serral wins EWC 2025 Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Classic: "It's a thick wall to break through to become world champ"
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) TaeJa vs Creator Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Which top zerg/toss will fail in qualifiers? Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced Nobody gona talk about this year crazy qualifiers? BW General Discussion Scmdraft 2 - 0.9.0 Preview
Tourneys
[ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2 [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
[G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
9/11 Anniversary Possible Al Qaeda Attack on 9/11 US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
The Link Between Fitness and…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 692 users

July officially announces his move to Starcraft 2 - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
374 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 19 Next All
Raevin
Profile Joined July 2010
246 Posts
September 10 2010 16:41 GMT
#221
Sc2 - Where former BW pro gamer retire after they can't keep up with a more APM intensive game.

As someone who never wants pro BW to die, this seems fine. Sc2 is the senior PGA of esports - a place where we can see our former hero's now past their prime still duke it out, while the young bucks fight it out in a more skill-intense league.

In the absence of a Sc2 proleague, though, i don't see Sc2 replacing BW as the main esport event in Korea. The presence of Proleague allows for a much larger pool of players to make a living playing the game, and also creates a larger source of potential innovation. Remember, even if July was the first to truly master modern muta micro in BW, it was Shark, a player who never really rose above mediocre, who discovered it. In the absence of a guaranteed source of income, there will be a smaller pool of Sc2 "pro's" (defined as people who make a living from playing the game) and an overall lower level of play (since people who have to work for a living can't spend 14 hrs a day improving their mechanics and devising new strategies). It also creates a rather perverse "race to the top" where the better the level of play gets, the less true "progamers" there will be. Higher level play = more work required to win tournaments = lower cost/benefit ratio for trying to stay at the level of skill needed to be a contender for tournament winner. For example, if all of a sudden Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, and all the current usual suspects for making it far into individual leagues in BW were to switch, it would become very hard for people like Idra or July to play Sc2 professionally. Once they caught up on the strategy and game specific mechanics, the generally higher level of skill found in high level BW players would make it increasingly hard for anyone else to compete, and in the absence of proleauge like salaries, even players like Effort, Stork (ie, high level players who CAN beat the best players in the world, but can't do so consistently) would be driven from the scene.

In conclusion, until Sc2 gets a proleague, be glad that only progamers too old or unskilled to keep up with high level BW have switched.



Its so sad to read the people who want to turn everything into a BW vs SC2 war, we saw it with the whole KeSpa thing and now this.

You may not like it, but SC2 is taking off and July isent the first nor the last player who makes the switch.

We all still love BW but its time to move on to a different game and see new legends aswell as old ones battle it out. I know people like you exist in every corner of the internet "everything was better before baaw" like an old man yelling at the youngsters how everything was better in his day etc.

You can keep doing that, but at least do it on other forums or do it in he BW section where you will get more support from the "lets gogogo BW vs SC2, BW wins lolol" brigade, because you are inscure that SC2 is taking over.
r3z3nd3
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Brazil522 Posts
September 10 2010 17:02 GMT
#222
Fanta fighting =)
Born to fast expand
LarJarsE
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1378 Posts
September 10 2010 17:09 GMT
#223
My prediction: July Replays are shown.
Zergs are highlighted on streams
Topic are made on Zerg strategies
FLOOD if Zerg IMBA strategies incoming because Zergs generally increase in skill as a korean progamer paves the way.
since 98'
vesicular
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1310 Posts
September 10 2010 17:10 GMT
#224
On September 11 2010 01:41 Raevin wrote:
Show nested quote +
Sc2 - Where former BW pro gamer retire after they can't keep up with a more APM intensive game.

As someone who never wants pro BW to die, this seems fine. Sc2 is the senior PGA of esports - a place where we can see our former hero's now past their prime still duke it out, while the young bucks fight it out in a more skill-intense league.

In the absence of a Sc2 proleague, though, i don't see Sc2 replacing BW as the main esport event in Korea. The presence of Proleague allows for a much larger pool of players to make a living playing the game, and also creates a larger source of potential innovation. Remember, even if July was the first to truly master modern muta micro in BW, it was Shark, a player who never really rose above mediocre, who discovered it. In the absence of a guaranteed source of income, there will be a smaller pool of Sc2 "pro's" (defined as people who make a living from playing the game) and an overall lower level of play (since people who have to work for a living can't spend 14 hrs a day improving their mechanics and devising new strategies). It also creates a rather perverse "race to the top" where the better the level of play gets, the less true "progamers" there will be. Higher level play = more work required to win tournaments = lower cost/benefit ratio for trying to stay at the level of skill needed to be a contender for tournament winner. For example, if all of a sudden Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, and all the current usual suspects for making it far into individual leagues in BW were to switch, it would become very hard for people like Idra or July to play Sc2 professionally. Once they caught up on the strategy and game specific mechanics, the generally higher level of skill found in high level BW players would make it increasingly hard for anyone else to compete, and in the absence of proleauge like salaries, even players like Effort, Stork (ie, high level players who CAN beat the best players in the world, but can't do so consistently) would be driven from the scene.

In conclusion, until Sc2 gets a proleague, be glad that only progamers too old or unskilled to keep up with high level BW have switched.



Its so sad to read the people who want to turn everything into a BW vs SC2 war, we saw it with the whole KeSpa thing and now this.

You may not like it, but SC2 is taking off and July isent the first nor the last player who makes the switch.

We all still love BW but its time to move on to a different game and see new legends aswell as old ones battle it out. I know people like you exist in every corner of the internet "everything was better before baaw" like an old man yelling at the youngsters how everything was better in his day etc.

You can keep doing that, but at least do it on other forums or do it in he BW section where you will get more support from the "lets gogogo BW vs SC2, BW wins lolol" brigade, because you are inscure that SC2 is taking over.


Basically this. I'll add that when the money is there, more pros will move to SC2. Gamers don't care about which game requires more APM or mechanics, they go where the money is. If there is more money to be made in SC2, more pros will be playing SC2, it's just that simple. It's why you're seeing vets like July and others move over.

BTW, anyone dissing on July needs their head examined. Seriously.
STX Fighting!
LarJarsE
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1378 Posts
September 10 2010 17:16 GMT
#225
On September 11 2010 01:41 Raevin wrote:
Show nested quote +
Sc2 - Where former BW pro gamer retire after they can't keep up with a more APM intensive game.

As someone who never wants pro BW to die, this seems fine. Sc2 is the senior PGA of esports - a place where we can see our former hero's now past their prime still duke it out, while the young bucks fight it out in a more skill-intense league.

In the absence of a Sc2 proleague, though, i don't see Sc2 replacing BW as the main esport event in Korea. The presence of Proleague allows for a much larger pool of players to make a living playing the game, and also creates a larger source of potential innovation. Remember, even if July was the first to truly master modern muta micro in BW, it was Shark, a player who never really rose above mediocre, who discovered it. In the absence of a guaranteed source of income, there will be a smaller pool of Sc2 "pro's" (defined as people who make a living from playing the game) and an overall lower level of play (since people who have to work for a living can't spend 14 hrs a day improving their mechanics and devising new strategies). It also creates a rather perverse "race to the top" where the better the level of play gets, the less true "progamers" there will be. Higher level play = more work required to win tournaments = lower cost/benefit ratio for trying to stay at the level of skill needed to be a contender for tournament winner. For example, if all of a sudden Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, and all the current usual suspects for making it far into individual leagues in BW were to switch, it would become very hard for people like Idra or July to play Sc2 professionally. Once they caught up on the strategy and game specific mechanics, the generally higher level of skill found in high level BW players would make it increasingly hard for anyone else to compete, and in the absence of proleauge like salaries, even players like Effort, Stork (ie, high level players who CAN beat the best players in the world, but can't do so consistently) would be driven from the scene.

In conclusion, until Sc2 gets a proleague, be glad that only progamers too old or unskilled to keep up with high level BW have switched.



Its so sad to read the people who want to turn everything into a BW vs SC2 war, we saw it with the whole KeSpa thing and now this.

You may not like it, but SC2 is taking off and July isent the first nor the last player who makes the switch.

We all still love BW but its time to move on to a different game and see new legends aswell as old ones battle it out. I know people like you exist in every corner of the internet "everything was better before baaw" like an old man yelling at the youngsters how everything was better in his day etc.

You can keep doing that, but at least do it on other forums or do it in he BW section where you will get more support from the "lets gogogo BW vs SC2, BW wins lolol" brigade, because you are inscure that SC2 is taking over.



And it's pretty hilarious how assumptions are already being made about SC2. The game is so new and the skill ceiling is nowhere close in sight, it is sad to see BW lovers hating so hard on SC2 because they don't want BW to die.

Sc2 is the senior PGA of esports - a place where we can see our former hero's now past their prime still duke it out, while the young bucks fight it out in a more skill-intense league.


You are saying "mehh some of the pros are getting older, so they shall move to SC2 because their skills are getting worse. Let the real best players keep playing BW because the game requires more skill"

SC2 will require more skill when the players get better! Units function much more like they are commanded to unlike in BW. IMO This will make micro extremely delicate when serious progamers start playing SC2. Strategies will be much more various and irregular. I'm just psyched. I hate when people debunk SC2 because its like WTF? I've been waiting 12 years, bro, I'm gonna defend this game like it's my child.
since 98'
danl9rm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States3111 Posts
September 10 2010 17:39 GMT
#226
Regarding Starcraft 2's gameplay, he said that "I think the game has gotten more difficult compared to the original"


eat that nay-sayers!
"Science has so well established that the preborn baby in the womb is a living human being that most pro-choice activists have conceded the point. ..since the abortion proponents have lost the science argument, they are now advocating an existential one."
Kinch
Profile Joined August 2010
United States258 Posts
September 10 2010 17:41 GMT
#227
BW will die, eventually. New players now start with SC2, so this is the end of days of BW. Look, we all loved it, but some people are slower to let go. Leave them be. Their suffering is of their own making.

Meanwhile, welcome, July!
Murderotica
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Vatican City State2594 Posts
September 10 2010 18:25 GMT
#228
You are dead to me, July.
ǝsnoɥ ssɐlƃ ɐ uı sǝuoʇs ʍoɹɥʇ ʇ,uop || sıʇɹoɟ ɹǝdɯǝs
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
September 10 2010 18:29 GMT
#229
On September 11 2010 01:15 Dfgj wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2010 00:45 figq wrote:
On September 10 2010 14:24 sluggaslamoo wrote:
This is July you are talking about here... the god damn mutha-fing 818 APM July.
818 APM. 818 APM. I wonder how much that is in SC2, but still. 818...

That's like... he makes 400 zerglings (2x 200) and makes two individual moves with each one in under a minute.

Or he just spam-selects them a ton.

I recall the first game of Incruit OSL RO16 (July vs Flash). July peaked at well over 800 APM, and his game involved flying mutas into a wall of turrets and losing everything.

July's sure got the mechanics, but he's not effectively that much faster than anyone else.
Frankly, I'm so relieved to hear that. Thank you, good sir.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
KissBlade
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States5718 Posts
September 10 2010 18:36 GMT
#230
On September 11 2010 02:39 danl9rm wrote:
Show nested quote +
Regarding Starcraft 2's gameplay, he said that "I think the game has gotten more difficult compared to the original"


eat that nay-sayers!


It's because he's playing Zerg =P!

(that and he's spend 3+ years on SC1 and like what? a few month on SC2?)
LarJarsE
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1378 Posts
September 10 2010 18:57 GMT
#231
BW dead mang, its all about three letter acronyms now to blizz. SC BW to SC2:WoL
since 98'
NuKedUFirst
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada3139 Posts
September 10 2010 19:03 GMT
#232
Wow, I didn't think we would see this announced until we see him in a Starcraft II LAN tourny ~ Good choice by July IMO.
FrostedMiniWeet wrote: I like winning because it validates all the bloody time I waste playing SC2.
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
September 10 2010 19:08 GMT
#233
got a new favourite sc2 player!

TUSHIN FIGHTING
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
September 10 2010 19:08 GMT
#234
YES!

The SCII Zerg Swarm grows stronger yet again!
leomon
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada169 Posts
September 10 2010 19:20 GMT
#235
One of my favorite BW zergs switching over to SC2? YES PLEASE!
Radians
AlwaysGG
Profile Joined March 2009
Taiwan952 Posts
September 10 2010 19:22 GMT
#236
go july! make history again !
Trust 神教教主 FlaSh | Believe 火心 EffOrt
atenthirtyone
Profile Joined May 2010
United States88 Posts
September 10 2010 19:26 GMT
#237
Awesome. I just hope July doesn't do his senseless aggression too much like he did in brood war. <_< "Oh, I'll just throw 200/200 food armies x5 at his front. It'll work."
SilentCrono
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1420 Posts
September 10 2010 19:30 GMT
#238
OMG :D

i just cannot pick a favorite sc2 team now. so hard to decide.
♞ Your soul will forever be lost in the void of a horse. ♞
BuzzJuice
Profile Joined April 2010
United States97 Posts
September 10 2010 19:34 GMT
#239
Good. July is a literal Zerg beast and his presence basically means that more and more people will be inspired to take up Zerg. I bet he will try to pave the way for new Zerg strats. He was famous for his Sauron Zerg strat in SC1. Can't wait to see more pro BW players join into the fray and pave the way for brand new strats.

"Hell, its about time"
Macro and Micro - the only M&M you need to know
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-10 19:38:29
September 10 2010 19:38 GMT
#240
July will teach us how zerg play is really done.
rip passion
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 19 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
14:00
Playoff - Day 2/2 - Final
Bonyth vs TBD
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Hui .233
MindelVK 57
ProTech50
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 95101
Calm 5673
Horang2 1172
Mini 1137
BeSt 739
EffOrt 648
ggaemo 513
Larva 393
firebathero 341
Hyuk 294
[ Show more ]
Mong 260
hero 238
Leta 131
Zeus 105
TY 101
ToSsGirL 90
sas.Sziky 52
ZZZero.O 24
Sharp 15
Killer 14
Noble 12
Terrorterran 9
NaDa 3
Dota 2
qojqva3843
Gorgc1406
XcaliburYe456
420jenkins301
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor467
Liquid`Hasu16
Other Games
B2W.Neo1012
DeMusliM628
mouzStarbuck198
Fuzer 192
Happy140
ArmadaUGS74
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV24
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Gemini_19 129
• davetesta44
• musti20045 35
• Reevou 13
• Dystopia_ 1
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV846
League of Legends
• Jankos1767
Upcoming Events
WardiTV European League
1h 54m
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
HeRoMaRinE vs MaxPax
Wardi Open
20h 54m
OSC
1d 9h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
HCC Europe
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CAC 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.