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I was wondering if anyone knew if preferential targeting applied to units with 'special' attacks.
Will the immortal prefer to target the roach over a zergling and thus gain the bonus damage
from vs. armored attacks, and likewise, will the ghost prefer to target light targets as
opposed to armored ones? Or will these units simply target randomly if they are
left unchecked?
As I understand it the tank AI isn't that retarded, so basically I'm wondering if that AI
extends to other units. I've dug around on the internets but haven't found a clear answer.
(see: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Attack_Target_Priority)
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On September 10 2010 06:15 broke wrote:
these units simply target randomly (the closest target) if they are left unchecked
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Tanks have smart AI, they do not waste shots anymore. No other unit has smart AI (Zerglings will still try to attack the thors instead of the SCVs).
edit: I didn't mean they picked and chose their shots in a smart manner. They hit instantly and if 1 tank is enough to kill 1 marine and 3 are at perfect range to see it at the exact same moment, one will fire.
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Hmm, if everything just targets whatever is closest I feel better about having lings and roaches in front of Hydras.
But still the Hydras seem to go down so fast :/
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Hm thats a good question but afaik they just attack whatever has the highest priority. I don't believe the liquidpedia page is correct with the numbers because i'v tested some of this stuff out. For example Stalkers vs Marauder/Medivac, the Stalkers will attack the Medivacs first and then the Marauders. Please correct me if i'm mistaken 
On September 10 2010 06:20 epik640x wrote:
Hmm, if everything just targets whatever is closest I feel better about having lings and roaches in front of Hydras.
But still the Hydras seem to go down so fast :/
They dont attack whats closest.. SC2 has a threat system so higher tier units get taken over priority over lower tier (within range).
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My zealots always want to attack my opponents zealot/stalker instead of probes, even if they are far away..
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On September 10 2010 06:19 CidO wrote:
Tanks have smart AI, they do not waste shots anymore. No other unit has smart AI (Zerglings will still try to attack the thors instead of the SCVs).
Sorta - they don't overkill, but it doesn't change their attack selection preference.
On September 10 2010 06:23 Mikami_ wrote:
My zealots always want to attack my opponents zealot/stalker instead of probes, even if they are far away..
That's because your opponent's zealots/stalkers have aggro, while their mining probes don't. Now, if their probes attacked you....
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On September 10 2010 06:23 R0YAL wrote:Hm thats a good question but afaik they just attack whatever has the highest priority. Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 06:20 epik640x wrote:
Hmm, if everything just targets whatever is closest I feel better about having lings and roaches in front of Hydras.
But still the Hydras seem to go down so fast :/ They dont attack whats closest.. SC2 has a threat system so higher tier units get taken over priority over lower tier (within range).
If the Attack Target Priority page in liquipedia is correct, then this is not true. All units have the same priority. I'm thinking it should good to take some overlords along with the army to serve as some meat shield.
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Tanks do not have smart AI. Tanks just don't have a projectile, so they hit instantly, making it impossible for other tanks to shoot the same target. It's not smart. You just cannot target something thats dead and since the zergling dies instantly after the first tank shoots, the next tank will simply aquire a new target. Units with delay between shooting animation and the damage dealing will still overkill as usual as you can see with Stalkers, Hydras, Roaches, Marauders etc. There really is no different AI working.
I assume the auto-attack targeting is the closest unit, unless it can't hit that and will then take the next target. Exeptions seem to be repairing SCV.
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On September 10 2010 06:19 CidO wrote:
Tanks have smart AI, they do not waste shots anymore. No other unit has smart AI (Zerglings will still try to attack the thors instead of the SCVs).
No no no no...
People say tanks are IMBA b/c they smartfire which is true (but being fixed). But its not TANKS that smartfire. Its ANY unit that has an INSTANT attack, aka marines, immortals, etc. Unit like stalker or banshees have missiles that take time to hit so they will not overkill. Since tank shots are instant they don't overkill.
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On September 10 2010 06:19 CidO wrote:
Tanks have smart AI, they do not waste shots anymore. No other unit has smart AI (Zerglings will still try to attack the thors instead of the SCVs).
Reapers and Marines have smart AI, not sure what other units have it though.
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On September 10 2010 06:35 Lexvink wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 06:19 CidO wrote:
Tanks have smart AI, they do not waste shots anymore. No other unit has smart AI (Zerglings will still try to attack the thors instead of the SCVs). Reapers and Marines have smart AI, not sure what other units have it though.
Any unit without a projectile attack has "Smart AI."
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From what I understand, in SC2 most units have equal target priority. This means that units will autoattack the closest valid target. They don't make any special preference to unit type, immortals can definitely waste a lot of shots on zealots even though stalkers are within range. I am not 100% sure, but burrowed zerg units may have a lower target priority and static defenses may have a higher target priority.
So-called "smart firing" is a completely different phenomenon, and has to do with the change in unit AI.
In SC1, units do something like this:
1) (Every frame, while idle and ready to fire) Check if any valid targets are in range. If so, start attack animation.
2) (0.1sec later) Deal damage.
3) (0.3sec later) Attack animation finishes.
In SC2 it's more like this:
1) (Every frame, while idle and ready to fire) Check if any valid targets are in range. If so, start attack animation.
2) (Every frame, while attack animation is going but before damage is dealt) Check if target is dead/untargetable/invulnerable. If so, stop attack animation and return to #1.
3) (0.1sec later) Deal damage.
4) (0.3sec later) Attack animation finishes.
The SC2 attack process leads to two peculiarities:
i) All units instantly retarget when their target dies. This means that a unit with an instant attack will never waste attacks on overkill. However, units with slow projectile attacks can still overkill. (Vikings are really bad for this)
ii) It is possible for a unit to play part of its attack animation, have its target die, then immediately repeat its attack animation and hit a different target. This phenomenon is most visible on the Immortal due to its huge muzzle flash animation, and looks like the animation is stuttering.
Despite the nickname "smart firing", I think auto-retargeting is quite stupid. IMO, Blizzard should change unit AI so that it is no longer able to auto-retarget. As this would significantly change game balance (particularly nerfing siege tanks and immortals) I'm guessing it'd probably come in an expansion.
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On September 10 2010 06:50 Piousflea wrote:
From what I understand, in SC2 most units have equal target priority. This means that units will autoattack the closest valid target. They don't make any special preference to unit type, immortals can definitely waste a lot of shots on zealots even though stalkers are within range. I am not 100% sure, but burrowed zerg units may have a lower target priority and static defenses may have a higher target priority.
So-called "smart firing" is a completely different phenomenon, and has to do with the change in unit AI.
In SC1, units do something like this:
1) (Every frame, while idle and ready to fire) Check if any valid targets are in range. If so, start attack animation.
2) (0.1sec later) Deal damage.
3) (0.3sec later) Attack animation finishes.
In SC2 it's more like this:
1) (Every frame, while idle and ready to fire) Check if any valid targets are in range. If so, start attack animation.
2) (Every frame, while attack animation is going but before damage is dealt) Check if target is dead/untargetable/invulnerable. If so, stop attack animation and return to #1.
3) (0.1sec later) Deal damage.
4) (0.3sec later) Attack animation finishes.
The SC2 attack process leads to two peculiarities:
i) All units instantly retarget when their target dies. This means that a unit with an instant attack will never waste attacks on overkill. However, units with slow projectile attacks can still overkill. (Vikings are really bad for this)
ii) It is possible for a unit to play part of its attack animation, have its target die, then immediately repeat its attack animation and hit a different target. This phenomenon is most visible on the Immortal due to its huge muzzle flash animation, and looks like the animation is stuttering.
Despite the nickname "smart firing", I think auto-retargeting is quite stupid. IMO, Blizzard should change unit AI so that it is no longer able to auto-retarget. As this would significantly change game balance (particularly nerfing siege tanks and immortals) I'm guessing it'd probably come in an expansion.
I don't believe that Blizzard will take it out at this point. They decided to take the route of nerfing the crap out of tank damage instead. Personally I would rather have had them take out the auto targeting as well :\
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10387 Posts
IMO, repairing SCVs should have the same targeting priority as attacking units that way a Thor being surrounded by SCVs won't be as retarded as it is now..
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I believe the above is correct, in a general sense. BW also had a 0 hp frame, which meant dead units could still be targeted with attacks. In SC2, units die instantly, so once something's dead, units with instant shots can't attack them. There's simply nothing there to target.
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On September 10 2010 06:39 R0YAL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 06:35 Lexvink wrote:On September 10 2010 06:19 CidO wrote:
Tanks have smart AI, they do not waste shots anymore. No other unit has smart AI (Zerglings will still try to attack the thors instead of the SCVs). Reapers and Marines have smart AI, not sure what other units have it though. Any unit without a projectile attack has "Smart AI."
THen why do immortals always without exeption(sp?) attack the non armoured units first?
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Some testing in the unit tester shows that medivacs have the same auto-target priority as marauders. If they're the closest target, they'll be attacked first.
The only exception I can find is workers, which are only auto-targeted if there are no military units in range.
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Disclaimer, this is from what I've noticed playing.
Units target whatever is closest so they don't pick armored or whatever, except for:
Workers, repairing/mining/walking workers don't seem to have priority over other units. If the workers attack then the closest rule counts again. This means you can surround units with workers and then attack so your workers don't die before they surround. Also makes killing a planetary fortress a horrible experience 
Flying units seem to have priority over walking units. My stalkers seem to go for flying units over ground units when they have range on both. Could just be that they are somehow closer so the being-closer rule counts but it feels that they prioritize flying units.
Warping in units don't have priority over attacking units, so you can warp stuff on top of marauders and they will keep firing at your warped in units before attack the warping in units.
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On September 10 2010 07:08 SuperGnu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 06:39 R0YAL wrote:On September 10 2010 06:35 Lexvink wrote:On September 10 2010 06:19 CidO wrote:
Tanks have smart AI, they do not waste shots anymore. No other unit has smart AI (Zerglings will still try to attack the thors instead of the SCVs). Reapers and Marines have smart AI, not sure what other units have it though. Any unit without a projectile attack has "Smart AI." THen why do immortals always without exeption(sp?) attack the non armoured units first?
On September 10 2010 06:50 Piousflea wrote:
From what I understand, in SC2 most units have equal target priority. This means that units will autoattack the closest valid target. They don't make any special preference to unit type, immortals can definitely waste a lot of shots on zealots even though stalkers are within range. I am not 100% sure, but burrowed zerg units may have a lower target priority and static defenses may have a higher target priority.
So-called "smart firing" is a completely different phenomenon, and has to do with the change in unit AI.
In SC1, units do something like this:
1) (Every frame, while idle and ready to fire) Check if any valid targets are in range. If so, start attack animation.
2) (0.1sec later) Deal damage.
3) (0.3sec later) Attack animation finishes.
In SC2 it's more like this:
1) (Every frame, while idle and ready to fire) Check if any valid targets are in range. If so, start attack animation.
2) (Every frame, while attack animation is going but before damage is dealt) Check if target is dead/untargetable/invulnerable. If so, stop attack animation and return to #1.
3) (0.1sec later) Deal damage.
4) (0.3sec later) Attack animation finishes.
The SC2 attack process leads to two peculiarities:
i) All units instantly retarget when their target dies. This means that a unit with an instant attack will never waste attacks on overkill. However, units with slow projectile attacks can still overkill. (Vikings are really bad for this)
ii) It is possible for a unit to play part of its attack animation, have its target die, then immediately repeat its attack animation and hit a different target. This phenomenon is most visible on the Immortal due to its huge muzzle flash animation, and looks like the animation is stuttering.
Despite the nickname "smart firing", I think auto-retargeting is quite stupid. IMO, Blizzard should change unit AI so that it is no longer able to auto-retarget. As this would significantly change game balance (particularly nerfing siege tanks and immortals) I'm guessing it'd probably come in an expansion.
Read this. Units don't do what you are referring to.
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its as simple as units will attack nearest hostile units or else nearest building with attack move with smart pathing. with the exception that if they are being attacked and there isnt a clear path they will run around not doing anything. workers arent considered enemy units unless they are attacking. nuff said
not hard to grasp.
classic ways to abuse this:
surround a queen or spine crawler with drones while the queen is attacking. enemy lings will run around not doing anything and get owned as long as u pump right click on the queen/spine crawler.
surround repair a thor while scv's repair. lings will run around like idiots.
wall off with a ranged dps behind wall. melee units will run around like idiots.
easy way to avoid this bad behavior
target fire
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I feel that instead of removing the target priorities, some control should be given to the player as to how to target e.g in SC1 the AI relied on distance, and so if you did Attack move, it would take the same preference to a Dragoon or a Zealot which could be bad in some cases (like you want to engage the zealots).
At the same time while SC2 helps to sorta mend this problem (wasn't much of a problem because players just microed near instantly so this is unnoticed), it gives its OWN priorities like engage medivcs instead of ground units or SCVs instead of Thors.
If there was like a Shift+F command or a set of commands like patrol etc. so that you can change from "attack using default attack priorities" to "attack the closest thing possible", it would really help alleviate some of these situations.
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On September 10 2010 07:08 SuperGnu wrote:
THen why do immortals always without exeption(sp?) attack the non armoured units first?
They don't. Because unarmoured targets usually have shorter attack range than the armoured targets (roach/hydra being a notable exception), they naturally end up closer and so are prioritised by the auto-target. If you construct a situation where the armoured target is closer than the unarmoured target, the immortal does shoot at it first.
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smart ai doesnt meen its smart, just smarter than the old stuff.. for instance, not waste shots as to shooting on already dead targets. wasting shots as in shootin on bad targets is not covered 
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On September 10 2010 07:16 BuzzJuice wrote:
I feel that instead of removing the target priorities, some control should be given to the player as to how to target e.g in SC1 the AI relied on distance, and so if you did Attack move, it would take the same preference to a Dragoon or a Zealot which could be bad in some cases (like you want to engage the zealots).
At the same time while SC2 helps to sorta mend this problem (wasn't much of a problem because players just microed near instantly so this is unnoticed), it gives its OWN priorities like engage medivcs instead of ground units or SCVs instead of Thors.
If there was like a Shift+F command or a set of commands like patrol etc. so that you can change from "attack using default attack priorities" to "attack the closest thing possible", it would really help alleviate some of these situations.
its nice that ppl have to micro instead of just 1a terrible idea. workers should be considered attacking units and problems solved.
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Is it just me or does medivacs have a higher threat than any other unit? Feels like they are targeted first no matter what.
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Is there an ai targeting priority list written down anywhere?
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On September 10 2010 07:07 Voyager I wrote:
I believe the above is correct, in a general sense. BW also had a 0 hp frame, which meant dead units could still be targeted with attacks. In SC2, units die instantly, so once something's dead, units with instant shots can't attack them. There's simply nothing there to target.
This is also true.
I also feel like SC2 siege tanks turn a lot faster to face their target, compared to SC1. There are a lot of things making tanks stronger.
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EPT
