Currently we just found out GSL's live stream and vods will have a price tag attached to them. $20 USD for the live stream HQ (at 500 kbps dl & LQ @ 200/300?) and the VODS will also cost $30 USD to purchase and is also watchable only during the current season.
My question to the community is will you purchase the stream and or the vods? Why or why not.
I personally felt that this poll should get more attention instead of getting buried in the official thread.
On September 02 2010 03:08 Kennigit wrote: I would get the paid stream if it meant no commercials. Obviously this is not the case - funny that OGN's free stream will be higher bitrate too 0_o
On September 02 2010 01:40 Chill wrote: I feel the same. The money is next to meaningless at this point for me, but the real problem is two-fold: - I have no assurance that the stream isn't going to be a disaster with T&A sitting in a closet and having tons of buffering issues. - I feel so spiteful that GOM thinks this is acceptable that I wouldn't even pay $1.00 at this point.
On September 02 2010 01:06 Chill wrote: For whatever reason, I feel way more likely to buy an HQ stream if there is a free LQ stream. It feels moreso like an upgrade and in a sense a donation to support something you like.
Having to straight up pay for a stream is a sure way to make sure I (and evidently about 600 other people right now) won't pay.
On September 02 2010 03:16 Shikyo wrote: Not everyone wastes so much on awful games though. I'm not sure why you're saying it's acceptable either, that's precisely why Activision is so corrupt.
With 30 dollars you get like one month of like 10 different tv channels with different programs 24/7. What they're offering for the amount is completely laughable.
You might enjoy eating chocolate, maybe you want to buy a chocolate bar. Is it reasonable to pay 50$ for it, and do you also call others whiners and QQers if they don't want to buy something so completely overpriced even if they'd enjoy eating it?
You're right not everyone wastes money on (awful? I dunno about that) games - but I'm just saying that as a gamer and what I spend my gaming dollars on... this equates to a better deal than me buying that $60 game that I'll only get 8 hours out of. When it comes to gaming, I look at it like this:
$ SPENT vs TIME PLAYED
If I spent 8 hours playing a $60 game, then I basically spent $7.50 an hour to play.
Let's say that GOMtv does manage to show 150 games and I buy the LIVE package only (this of course assuming the streaming technology works and I'm getting what I paid for) for $20. That equates to $0.13 per game I watch. That's not a bad deal.
Now realistically will I get up for every single game or be able to watch them? Probably not, so let's throw the VOD cost on there too...so now $50 total. So to enjoy every single game whether it's LIVE or VOD, I would be paying a cost of $0.33 per game.
NOW AGAIN this all depends on whether or not the service is actually worth the money... but if I make the assumption that it's viewable... that doesn't seem too bad at all.
And if the Chocolate bar let me eat off it for a month... Maybe $50 isn't so bad for that bar? I guess it's not much different than paying for something in installments vs. one lump sum.
Paying differently to vods and livestream is ridiculous. I'd definietly pay 15-20 to both of them but a total of 50 is insane. They should lower the prices if they want anyone to pay. There will probably be pirate streams and vods anyway.
I will absolutely not pay. I'm 100% positive the live show will get re-streamed elsewhere or I'll just watch the Korean stream. The VODs will become available as well.
Being a university student I can safely say that there is no way in hell that I am able to pay that much for a replay! 5 bucks a series or something would be possible, but 20 bucks a pop, and 30 bucks vods? forget it.
Good thing the internet is free if you search long enough!
the methods remind me of their big daddy: tag the services that are most anticipated (and should be for free) with the highest prices so people have to weigh their longing for the respective service against the financial constraints. making vods more expensive than the free stream when a major part of the viewership is foreign and can't watch all the matches live is extremely sneaky.
On September 01 2010 18:10 velvetone wrote: Is that each episode/stream you watch charged. Or you pay once you're allowed to watch them all?
You can either buy tickets for the whole season or for 1 day.
Does that mean you have to pay $20 PER day for the stream?!?!
No; it's $2 per day. $20 is for the whole season.
I will be buying at least a VOD ticket because I can afford it and I can't resist. However, the whole thing is a shame and to that end I hope you all will bump my thread or JWD's thead at http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/forum/
If we make enough noise on GOM's site, they may reconsider. We're already having an impact on their server
Instead of exposing this tournament to the community and its potential viewers to generate interest for feature endeavors; they are making us pay to watch artosis/tasteless commentate in English only 1 month after sc2s retail release.
On September 01 2010 23:10 TheAngelofDeath wrote: Not a chance. The OGN stream won't be paid(hopefully,) and I like the Korean commentators more anyway.
Well, crap, this news makes me sad, I suppose they need to pay for the prize money, but I'd prefer commercials, I guess we just have to wait and see how this all turns out.
Probably not, but maybe in a few years when the GSL gets bigger and SC2 gets really competitive. The first GSL will probably be a little less exciting than ones in the future, just because the game is so new and nobody is really really good yet. If it gets to be anything like the MSL/OSL, I would most likely buy tickets.
I can sort of see where some business guy came up with the pricing. MLG priced $10USD for a single weekend. So someone that deals with money and doesn't deal with Starcraft sees that and figures $20 for a whole season of GSL is a great price. However that $10 for MLG included streams for Halo, Tekken, Smash Bros., SC2 and WoW. It also added a feature for rewinding the live stream which some people enjoyed.
That $20 price would be OK with me if they had a free alternative so I could at least check out the stream first like MLG had. I could see if the amount of content and the stability of the stream could justify the price.
I have no idea how they came up with the VOD pricing though, seems like a number someone just thought up out of nowhere.
Why are people saying this is Blizzard's decision? Isn't it GomTV's broadcast?
Thats a shameful amount of money by the way. How long does that last? Just this tournament this weekend? I would pay $20 bucks a YEAR if there were monthly, high quality streams of GS2L tournaments.. but not just for this first Ro64...
Do they realize you can get an entire TV show series on DVD for 30 bucks? Thats with like, millions of dollars into the show and you own a hardcopy for viewing pleasure at any time...
there's bound to be someone out there who will restream it on their channel no matter how illegal it may be. i shall use the full might of my search powers to find it!
On September 01 2010 23:23 Ichabod wrote: Well, crap, this news makes me sad, I suppose they need to pay for the prize money, but I'd prefer commercials, I guess we just have to wait and see how this all turns out.
This is such crap.
The prize money is NOTIHNG to Gretech. 170,000 USD? Absolutely nothing.
I would consider paying if GSL was an established quality product. As it stands now we get to watch some amateurs (yeah some may be known but they're not on a pro level) so why would I pay for it when I can watch pros play for free (BW)? And really If I wanted to watch amateurs there's plenty of tourneys around (including bigger ones like ESL or MLG).
SC2 is too young and imbalanced of a game to be taken seriously (not to mention the coming patch that will shift the balance). There's just too many unknowns at this point and it was announced on too short of a notice really. This kind of decisions make me vouch for KeSPA even more - they at least provide a quality product and whats more important you can get it for free.
I'd pay for the VOD's if I knew they'd be released quickly (as in, within less than 24 hours after the event, preferably much sooner) and the price was cut it half.
Not going to pay for the live stream.. simply because I don't stay up to watch them most of the time. As for a vod ticket they need to lower the cost imo.. as it stands I'm going to look into alternative solutions or a shared account.
On September 01 2010 23:45 kGold wrote: I really hope there is less banter in this thread than the amount we should all be writing on the GomTV forums......
http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/forum/ there's the link. There are several good threads by TL members like myself, motbob, and JWD that you can bump, or create your own!
No way. When you have higher quality bw games for free why i would pay for some mediocre Sc2 games with no names ( no offense but i don't think that the current Sc2 "pros" have godlike status and skills like JD or Flash ).
I was highly suspicious about their business model for day one anyway so i'm not really surprised
On September 01 2010 23:23 Ichabod wrote: Well, crap, this news makes me sad, I suppose they need to pay for the prize money, but I'd prefer commercials, I guess we just have to wait and see how this all turns out.
This is such crap.
The prize money is NOTIHNG to Gretech. 170,000 USD? Absolutely nothing.
While I think $20 is reasonable if it's in HD and the stream doesn't lag, I won't be buying it on principle because I feel that not having some kind of free stream is a huge step backwards in trying to grow e-sports for the international community. If they made a low quality stream available for free I'd probably pay the $20 to upgrade to HD.
Regarding the VODs, I might buy it if you could download and save it, but if you have to view it online and it stops working after one season then fuck that, not worth $30 to buy something you can't even keep.
I don't have any problem with them charging for it. Obviously I'd prefer free but you can't fault them for paying the bills. I add an extra $3-ish dollars a month to my cable bill to get The Tennis Channel. I don't see this as being any different.
Obviously there should be a fee, anyone who claims they want e-sports to grow and then expect to get free streams and vods all the time should rethink if they actually want to help e-sports.
The pricing and business model for this is bad though, 20 for both live and vods would be reasonable.
On September 01 2010 23:23 Ichabod wrote: Well, crap, this news makes me sad, I suppose they need to pay for the prize money, but I'd prefer commercials, I guess we just have to wait and see how this all turns out.
This is such crap.
The prize money is NOTIHNG to Gretech. 170,000 USD? Absolutely nothing.
I can understand them trying to make a profit on this event, but they should be thinking more long term. This is doomed to fail.
No, 170k USD still matters. They are a business and to be honest 170k from 5 million is actually a pretty good chunk of money.
Not when you can just as easily make a ton of it back due to advertising revenue alone just to the Koreans. Not many people are going to pay to watch this.
On September 01 2010 23:56 VanGarde wrote: Obviously there should be a fee, anyone who claims they want e-sports to grow and then expect to get free streams and vods all the time should rethink if they actually want to help e-sports.
Lack of free stream damages eports, how do you get new spectators? They should charge for HD stream, free stream give them advertising for they league/e-sport, and advertising money. Maybe they couldn't provide HD stream from Korea so they had decide to just charge for LQ stream.
On September 01 2010 23:56 VanGarde wrote: Obviously there should be a fee, anyone who claims they want e-sports to grow and then expect to get free streams and vods all the time should rethink if they actually want to help e-sports.
Lack of free stream damages eports, how do you get new spectators? They should charge for HD stream, free stream give them advertising for they league/e-sport, and advertising money. Maybe they couldn't provide HD stream from Korea so they had decide to just charge for LQ stream.
They can also use variants of re-streams. Where they send the video to a relay that then sends it on...
On September 01 2010 23:23 Ichabod wrote: Well, crap, this news makes me sad, I suppose they need to pay for the prize money, but I'd prefer commercials, I guess we just have to wait and see how this all turns out.
This is such crap.
The prize money is NOTIHNG to Gretech. 170,000 USD? Absolutely nothing.
I can understand them trying to make a profit on this event, but they should be thinking more long term. This is doomed to fail.
No, 170k USD still matters. They are a business and to be honest 170k from 5 million is actually a pretty good chunk of money.
Not when you can just as easily make a ton of it back due to advertising revenue alone just to the Koreans. Not many people are going to pay to watch this.
And furthermore, isn't this a sponsored tournament, namely by TG and Intel???
Wouldn't THEY be the ones picking up the prize pool? This leaves Gretech with organizing and running the event, I guess. Along with other misc. expenses. Either way, with all the advertising they will be doing, I can't see them not making a profit.
They are just looking to gouge us foreigners because they think they can get away with. Screw them. I'm not giving them a dime.
Don't expect it to be re-streamed for free either, UStream and Livestream are really conscious about people broadcasting copyrighted material, I mean Orb was banned from Livestream for showing 5 minutes Zombieland on his channel, and rest assured I'm sure someone at GOM will be watching this site like a hawk to report anyone who re-streams their shit.
i would even think about splitting the price with my brother if it was 10$ or less, but at the given prices i am simply not able to buy it since i go to school and just get like 50$ a month
On September 01 2010 23:56 VanGarde wrote: Obviously there should be a fee, anyone who claims they want e-sports to grow and then expect to get free streams and vods all the time should rethink if they actually want to help e-sports.
The pricing and business model for this is bad though, 20 for both live and vods would be reasonable.
I love how it's so "obvious" to you. You watched some starcraft progaming lately? Or lets say...for the past years?
On September 01 2010 23:56 VanGarde wrote: Obviously there should be a fee, anyone who claims they want e-sports to grow and then expect to get free streams and vods all the time should rethink if they actually want to help e-sports.
The pricing and business model for this is bad though, 20 for both live and vods would be reasonable.
Thank god for torrents. This is absolutely fucking stupid, provide a HQ stream and let us pay for that instead, I think there'll be plenty of buyers is the price is reasonable.
I want you to take a second and step outside your house and go up to your mailbox. Inside you may find some mail and possibly find some bills. One of those bills may be from your cable tv provider. Open it up and let me know if they are charging you anything for using their services.
On the issue at hand. Considering the demographics of the people playing this game, especially the ones who may be interested in watching VODs and livestreams, I believe that the price point that they set may be a little high. I can afford either option, or both, but I do get a lot of coverage on streams watching other tournaments that will probably be sufficient for me. I don't know, I may change my mind, but I will have a hard time justifying paying that much.
I want you to take a second and step outside your house and go up to your mailbox. Inside you may find some mail and possibly find some bills. One of those bills may be from your cable tv provider. Open it up and let me know if they are charging you anything for using their services.
What? This argument doesn't make sense at all. I pay a bill for my internet connection as well, you realize.
Football broadcasters make the VAST MAJORITY of their money through advertising. Not subscription fees.
I want you to take a second and step outside your house and go up to your mailbox. Inside you may find some mail and possibly find some bills. One of those bills may be from your cable tv provider. Open it up and let me know if they are charging you anything for using their services.
On the issue at hand. Considering the demographics of the people playing this game, especially the ones who may be interested in watching VODs and livestreams, I believe that the price point that they set may be a little high. I can afford either option, or both, but I do get a lot of coverage on streams watching other tournaments that will probably be sufficient for me. I don't know, I may change my mind, but I will have a hard time justifying paying that much.
i hardly pay 10 bucks per MONTH for about 60 channels, and yes, 20$ per one fuckn tournament is too much...
I won't pay no matter what the price, screw gom TV, paying for a stream broadcasted from korea which will be the slowest thing in the world is just stupid. Plus i'm sure somewhere someone will restream this, and if we have the possibility to watch for free the korean stream, then i don't mind watching it.
Really disapointed, but i assure you no matter what the price is, they won't get a dime from my pocket and i'm pretty sure that the english stream/vods will be leaked, restreamed or aviable for free elsewhere.
You can download a movie days before it actually get out on theaters, so an internet stream, that's a piece of cake to restream it.
If you start paying, you'll have to pay for this GSL the upcoming GSL, other companies will see that it is working, so you'll have to pay for ProLeague stream, MSL and all the future leagues that will benefit from this to make the foreigners pay lots and lots of money.
Plus the GSL is a multiple tournement edition, so you pay 50 for the first GSL, 50 for the second one, and in the end of the year you spend an insane amount of money for stupid shit.
I want you to take a second and step outside your house and go up to your mailbox. Inside you may find some mail and possibly find some bills. One of those bills may be from your cable tv provider. Open it up and let me know if they are charging you anything for using their services.
What? This argument doesn't make sense at all. I pay a bill for my internet connection as well, you realize.
Football broadcasters make the VAST MAJORITY of their money through advertising. Not subscription fees.
It means you don't watch football for free, yo. You watch it for the cost of your hardware + cable bill + whatever portion of your electricity bill goes to powering your TV.
500kbps is HQ Stream now? Is that supposed to be some fucking joke?
I might be willing to pay 10-15$ for 720p high quality vods, but worse quality than that and I'll find a way to watch it on a chinese restream or something.
On September 02 2010 00:15 Alou wrote: I won't. Trying to get on their site to register but it isn't letting me in.
The site is a little bit slow. Took a few minutes to get the confirmation e-mail and it took another 3 minutes until the confirmation worked.
On topic: I have no problem paying if 1. the price is reasonable and 2. if the stream is 100% stable. Does not look like this is the case at the moment, though.
I want you to take a second and step outside your house and go up to your mailbox. Inside you may find some mail and possibly find some bills. One of those bills may be from your cable tv provider. Open it up and let me know if they are charging you anything for using their services.
What? This argument doesn't make sense at all. I pay a bill for my internet connection as well, you realize.
Football broadcasters make the VAST MAJORITY of their money through advertising. Not subscription fees.
It means you don't watch football for free, yo. You watch it for the cost of your hardware + cable bill + whatever portion of your electricity bill goes to powering your TV.
Clothes aren't free to have, even if you get them for free from a mate. You have to wash them, which uses water/electricity.. Yeah, I can make ridiculous comparisons too. If I watch the world cup in football I don't pay a subscription, that was the initial argument.
I don't think you can compare SC2 to football though, they're just.. in different leagues. On the other hand we're not paying to watch any other tournament in the west (unless you pay for the HQ version), why do we have to pay for GOM?
I want you to take a second and step outside your house and go up to your mailbox. Inside you may find some mail and possibly find some bills. One of those bills may be from your cable tv provider. Open it up and let me know if they are charging you anything for using their services.
What? This argument doesn't make sense at all. I pay a bill for my internet connection as well, you realize.
Football broadcasters make the VAST MAJORITY of their money through advertising. Not subscription fees.
It means you don't watch football for free, yo. You watch it for the cost of your hardware + cable bill + whatever portion of your electricity bill goes to powering your TV.
Well then I don't watch youtube for free, either. What is this point of this ridiculous tangent?
We're talking about additional prices to watch a specific thing. Not internet/cable bills.
I want you to take a second and step outside your house and go up to your mailbox. Inside you may find some mail and possibly find some bills. One of those bills may be from your cable tv provider. Open it up and let me know if they are charging you anything for using their services.
On the issue at hand. Considering the demographics of the people playing this game, especially the ones who may be interested in watching VODs and livestreams, I believe that the price point that they set may be a little high. I can afford either option, or both, but I do get a lot of coverage on streams watching other tournaments that will probably be sufficient for me. I don't know, I may change my mind, but I will have a hard time justifying paying that much.
While you think you have a point I can and do watch many sports and television shows free of charge in 720p and 1080i from an over the air HD signal. Paying is not necessary good sponsors are. It just doesn't make any sense what so ever to not have a free stream. Way less people will watch and it won't be sustainable because they will be hard pressed to grow their audience.
As the viewer, I do my share of the work by making GOM more popular and watching the ads. Scaring me away through having a cost only decreases ad revenue and popularity.
On September 02 2010 01:03 theuser wrote: I can see Blizzard's hand in this. Gom never did this kind of thing before. I guess it's in their contract with Blizz. Blizz MADE them do it.
On September 02 2010 01:03 theuser wrote: I can see Blizzard's hand in this. Gom never did this kind of thing before. I guess it's in their contract with Blizz. Blizz MADE them do it.
Sneaky fucks.. Now we know where they are gonna pull the prize money from. Congratulations on gaining 64 fans in the players you are paying and losing out on thousands of viewers..
On September 02 2010 01:03 theuser wrote: I can see Blizzard's hand in this. Gom never did this kind of thing before. I guess it's in their contract with Blizz. Blizz MADE them do it.
why would they?....
Because i don't know another e-sport/game company so obsessed about money and overpricing everything they sell.
On September 01 2010 23:27 GogoKodo wrote: I can sort of see where some business guy came up with the pricing. MLG priced $10USD for a single weekend. So someone that deals with money and doesn't deal with Starcraft sees that and figures $20 for a whole season of GSL is a great price. However that $10 for MLG included streams for Halo, Tekken, Smash Bros., SC2 and WoW. It also added a feature for rewinding the live stream which some people enjoyed.
That $20 price would be OK with me if they had a free alternative so I could at least check out the stream first like MLG had. I could see if the amount of content and the stability of the stream could justify the price.
I have no idea how they came up with the VOD pricing though, seems like a number someone just thought up out of nowhere.
For whatever reason, I feel way more likely to buy an HQ stream if there is a free LQ stream. It feels moreso like an upgrade and in a sense a donation to support something you like.
Having to straight up pay for a stream is a sure way to make sure I (and evidently about 600 other people right now) won't pay.
I can see Blizzard's hand in this. Gom never did this kind of thing before. I guess it's in their contract with Blizz. Blizz MADE them do it.
Yes, because something bad has happened related to Starcraft, is MUST be Blizzard's fault. We have no evidence or rationale for thinking this, but that doesn't matter, because its Blizzard so EVERYTHING is their fault!
Please. If you're going to make accusations like that, you're gonna have to provide some more evidence than "Blizzard is teh Satan!!1!"
On the subject of the thread...
No, no I will definitely NOT be paying that. And it strikes me as a poor business decision--why not offer up a lower quality stream, probably with ads, for free or at a significantly cheaper price point, then offer premium service with hd and no ads for those who are willing to pay?
I want you to take a second and step outside your house and go up to your mailbox. Inside you may find some mail and possibly find some bills. One of those bills may be from your cable tv provider. Open it up and let me know if they are charging you anything for using their services.
What? This argument doesn't make sense at all. I pay a bill for my internet connection as well, you realize.
Football broadcasters make the VAST MAJORITY of their money through advertising. Not subscription fees.
He said he watches football for free. No he doesn't. Yes, he can watch games for a low price that is priced into his normal cable bill. I was just correcting his false statement in a rather obnoxious manner. A cable bill is a form of subscription. If I do not pay my bill, I lose my service. You need to separate the broadcasters from the actual cable provider. I don't pay NBC to watch football, I pay [insert local cable provider here]. I never said that I watch streams for free, and I was careful not to, because I do pay $40 a month for my internet bill. My internet bill, however, is at a much lower price than my current cable bill (about 1/2-1/3). So in essence, since I share about equal time on the internet and on my tv, I would have to say that I am actually paying more to watch football than I am paying to watch my starcraft II streams, but I am paying for both. I agree that they have priced this thing way too high, but when you are arguing your reasons for disagreement it is imperative that you don't make claims that are simply not true. To provide a counter argument to all of those, including myself that disagree with the price, this thing can be looked upon as if it was pay per view on your cable tv. If I want to watch a UFC championship fight I will have to dish out $50 in order to watch it. However, if I want to watch some random fight, that may or may not be a UFC fight but rather a random MMA organization, I might be able to find it on another station that is already included in my cable package.
I can see Blizzard's hand in this. Gom never did this kind of thing before. I guess it's in their contract with Blizz. Blizz MADE them do it.
Yes, because something bad has happened related to Starcraft, is MUST be Blizzard's fault. We have no evidence or rationale for thinking this, but that doesn't matter, because its Blizzard so EVERYTHING is their fault!
Please. If you're going to make accusations like that, you're gonna have to provide some more evidence than "Blizzard is teh Satan!!1!"
On the subject of the thread...
No, no I will definitely NOT be paying that. And it strikes me as a poor business decision--why not offer up a lower quality stream, probably with ads, for free or at a significantly cheaper price point, then offer premium service with hd and no ads for those who are willing to pay?
Well if they can sell some shity ponny for 25 or some stupid mappack for 15$. Why shouldnt they try to charge 20$ for a stream ? . I dont like this at all and I will never pay money for this lol. So this is the shit why theyre killing PL and BW off ? rofl. Haven fun trying.
On September 02 2010 01:06 Chill wrote: For whatever reason, I feel way more likely to buy an HQ stream if there is a free LQ stream. It feels moreso like an upgrade and in a sense a donation to support something you like.
Having to straight up pay for a stream is a sure way to make sure I (and evidently about 600 other people right now) won't pay.
I wish there was a Weapon of Choice this week.. There's a lot of drama etc atm, it would of be interesting to discuss. I completely agree with what your said and i feel that they would make more money by doing what MLG and ESL does atm
This is an absolute joke. GOM got their $50 from me for the SC:BW tournament premium stream but they aren't getting $20 a month for this. Provide a LQ free stream, guys. Hell, use Octoshape if you have to.
On September 02 2010 01:12 smileyyy wrote:Well if they can sell some shity ponny for 25 or some stupid mappack for 15$.
You can download starcraft 2 for free on BNET. That's 7GB per download (and I downloaded it twice). Not everything that is related to Blizzard in some way is their responsibility.
I want you to take a second and step outside your house and go up to your mailbox. Inside you may find some mail and possibly find some bills. One of those bills may be from your cable tv provider. Open it up and let me know if they are charging you anything for using their services.
What? This argument doesn't make sense at all. I pay a bill for my internet connection as well, you realize.
Football broadcasters make the VAST MAJORITY of their money through advertising. Not subscription fees.
It means you don't watch football for free, yo. You watch it for the cost of your hardware + cable bill + whatever portion of your electricity bill goes to powering your TV.
Clothes aren't free to have, even if you get them for free from a mate. You have to wash them, which uses water/electricity.. Yeah, I can make ridiculous comparisons too. If I watch the world cup in football I don't pay a subscription, that was the initial argument.
I don't think you can compare SC2 to football though, they're just.. in different leagues. On the other hand we're not paying to watch any other tournament in the west (unless you pay for the HQ version), why do we have to pay for GOM?
It's not a ridiculous comparison. If whatever thing you want to watch is not televised on a channel that's part of your normal plan, you do indeed have to pay an extra subscription for it. At least that's the way cable TV works everywhere I've lived in the US. I'm a huge tennis fan but tennis isn't very popular in the US. If I want to watch anything but the major tournaments I have to pay an extra $3-ish dollars a month to get The Tennis Channel.
Live Starcraft 2 coverage is not provided in the cost of your internet just as pay-per-view movies or premium channels aren't provided in a basic cable TV plan.
On September 02 2010 01:06 Chill wrote: For whatever reason, I feel way more likely to buy an HQ stream if there is a free LQ stream. It feels moreso like an upgrade and in a sense a donation to support something you like.
Having to straight up pay for a stream is a sure way to make sure I (and evidently about 600 other people right now) won't pay.
I wish there was a Weapon of Choice this week.. There's a lot of drama etc atm, it would of be interesting to discuss. I completely agree with what your said and i feel that they would make more money by doing what MLG and ESL does atm
yeah it creates a totally different mindset.
been watching lotsa esl and currently considering to get a premium acc. not because im unhappy with the freestream quality (i really dont care much) but because i like what they are doing and want to support them.
but in this situation i happily show gom the finger and watch the games for free on youtube,restreams,torrents or the free korean version. or just read up the matchreports im sure someone will do. and ill feel good about it.
I want you to take a second and step outside your house and go up to your mailbox. Inside you may find some mail and possibly find some bills. One of those bills may be from your cable tv provider. Open it up and let me know if they are charging you anything for using their services.
On the issue at hand. Considering the demographics of the people playing this game, especially the ones who may be interested in watching VODs and livestreams, I believe that the price point that they set may be a little high. I can afford either option, or both, but I do get a lot of coverage on streams watching other tournaments that will probably be sufficient for me. I don't know, I may change my mind, but I will have a hard time justifying paying that much.
While you think you have a point I can and do watch many sports and television shows free of charge in 720p and 1080i from an over the air HD signal. Paying is not necessary good sponsors are. It just doesn't make any sense what so ever to not have a free stream. Way less people will watch and it won't be sustainable because they will be hard pressed to grow their audience.
I agree with you... somewhat. You are right, there are some ways to obtain tv for free, although I suspect that the vast majority of people pay for theirs. I do think that some form of payment will be necessary. Their costs for running this event, from prize money to the staff members, will be pretty high. I am not too sure on whether the advertising will cover those costs. Remember, its a video game tournament. Yes, there are a lot of us excited about getting into esports, but as right now there are still a lot of questions on whether this will be successful or not and that it will draw enough viewers so that advertisers will throw out enough money.
wonder how long the free-streaming for the first couple of games they mentioned will last, and how much viewers it will drop to once they add the premium lock to it every day
Ruining the professional BW scene and now this? I'm totally boycotting Blizzard now. I'm not going to buy SC2, and I'm definitely not going to pay for this.
This is disappointing on so many levels. I appreciate that GOM is trying to come up with a business model that justifies having English commentary. But there are just so many problems:
First the price is just too high. You might say that it's not too bad for 50 hours+ entertainment, but realistically I can watch high quality streams, or community tournaments etc. for free. I just can't justify paying $50 for the difference between the two.
Second, and I think this is the most important point, even if I did pay for the stream most people on TL wouldn't. Discussing games with others (or just reading what they think about it) is part of the experience.
Finally, although this is a small point, GOMTV really needs to clear up their ToS. I'm just not going to give $50 (and more importantly my CC number) to a company that claims they can change the terms at any moment. Like what does that even mean? Can they stop streaming and say, sorry we ran out of bandwidth, no refunds? Can they change the quality? Add insane amounts of commercials without letting me jump around in the VOD? I'm sorry but if you're asking for my money you'll have to show a little more respect than that.
In the end it's GOM's decision but I would have really preferred a model where they serve paying customers first and allow others to watch if there's free bandwidth left. They could have also specifically allowed restreaming with the condition that you need to show the commercials too. Well, maybe next season.
I'm not paying to watch GSL. I bought Starcraft 2 because it was being marketed as an esport, part of that, to me, means I can watch the highest level of competitive play.
Gom is partnered with Blizzard, this is Blizzard supporting the esports scene?
On September 01 2010 23:27 GogoKodo wrote: I can sort of see where some business guy came up with the pricing. MLG priced $10USD for a single weekend. So someone that deals with money and doesn't deal with Starcraft sees that and figures $20 for a whole season of GSL is a great price. However that $10 for MLG included streams for Halo, Tekken, Smash Bros., SC2 and WoW. It also added a feature for rewinding the live stream which some people enjoyed.
That $20 price would be OK with me if they had a free alternative so I could at least check out the stream first like MLG had. I could see if the amount of content and the stability of the stream could justify the price.
I have no idea how they came up with the VOD pricing though, seems like a number someone just thought up out of nowhere.
For whatever reason, I feel way more likely to buy an HQ stream if there is a free LQ stream. It feels moreso like an upgrade and in a sense a donation to support something you like.
Having to straight up pay for a stream is a sure way to make sure I (and evidently about 600 other people right now) won't pay.
Yeah, I feel the same way. I felt more open to paying for the HQ "upgrade" given the option to do so, but the lack of any free streaming at all, the lack of having this choice - on top of separate for pay VODs, first company I've heard doing such a thing - just makes me feel that they don't care about nor understand the community at all and are just going at it with $-marks in their eyes.
It also doesn't help that the pricepoint is quite high, and GOM isn't exactly know for their reputation of having high-quality/easily accessible streams.
First GOM tourney afaik and charging admission? MAYBE I'd consider paying <10$ if they impressed me with a free to view one in the first place, and with Artosis/Tasteless casting I'm sure it wouldn't let down
Not paying 5x the price for a gamble, though Goodluck to them :\
SC2 esporst grows through streams spreading into teenager and young adult households. If hardcore TL nerds won't pay to watch, who the fuck will? It's a real real short term decision GSL has made here. A long term decision would be low stream free, high stream pay. Bring the masses in. This is such a 90s business model.
so this was what the GSL was all about, to get people to pay absurd prices to watch the tournament. granted a 85k first prize isn't something blizzard is willing to just "lose". guess they have to make it back somehow. hope there are some bootleg streams ^.^ i'm too poor to afford these prices
On September 02 2010 01:33 Malgrif wrote: so this was what the GSL was all about, to get people to pay absurd prices to watch the tournament. granted a 85k first prize isn't something blizzard is willing to just "lose". guess they have to make it back somehow. hope there are some bootleg streams ^.^ i'm too poor to afford these prices
Blizzard/Activision is multi billion dollar company, they spend 30 million on advertising sc2 in Korea alone I think, that prizemoney is nothing to them.
There's nothing wrong with paying for a good stream either. But there is something wrong in paying crazy prices for a stream out of korea that probably wont even be real high quality.
Let's see, 64 players, bo3/bo5 matches, - at least 50 hours of live HQ television(if you can call 500k HQ) and access to at least 130 VODs, realistically 60+ hours and ~200 vods for 50$, - not a bad deal.
On September 02 2010 01:38 Go0g3n wrote: Let's see, 64 players, bo3/bo5 matches, - at least 50 hours of live HQ television(if you can call 500k HQ) and access to at least 130 VODs, realistically 60+ hours and ~200 vods for 50$, - not a bad deal.
Considering I've seen hundreds of hours of high quality streams for free, I think it's a horrible deal.
On September 02 2010 01:34 Molkovien wrote: It is not that i wouldn't be willing to pay 20 bucks for a nice stream, but without any quality insurance... just no way.
Funny thing is if their had been a free stream i could watch, I would prolly have upgraded to support them, I usually do.
I feel the same. The money is next to meaningless at this point for me, but the real problem is two-fold: - I have no assurance that the stream isn't going to be a disaster with T&A sitting in a closet and having tons of buffering issues. - I feel so spiteful that GOM thinks this is acceptable that I wouldn't even pay $1.00 at this point.
I'm not rich by any sense of the word but I'm old and married and have enough income that I'm more than willing to pay for VODs. (Live is just too late for me to be staying up.)
What's most frustrating to me is the lack of information on what you're exactly getting, so in some parts I feel we may be jumping the gun a bit here.
Firstly I don't know how long the season is, if it's as long as the avartec-intel gom.tv stuff they did for bw, I'd be pretty content shipping over my $30 for a season that's that long. If it's a month long season $30 feels too stiff by quite a margin.
Secondly, I need to know what my VOD's include, I need to know what kind of resolution they're going to be in and how they're going to be served to me. Do I get a file I get to keep and hold forever on my hard drive? (Likely not.) And will I have some way of getting it up on the TV and if I do will it be in a watchable quality? And if I want to watch them on my ipad why does this appear to be another set of payments I need to make?
$30 for VODs seems like a scary price, and I really feel for the people in high school, university or at another stage in their lives where the disposable income just isn't there and honestly I'd pirate it or watch a re-stream of it too in your spots.
I think there is an extremely fine line between asking people to support e-sports when perhaps the sponsors aren't there to otherwise show it and outright taking advantage of people. Right now for me though it's the lack of information that's the most frustrating part, I'm willing to do my part but I need to know exactly what I'm getting for my $30.
Anyone else noticed the amount of threads being closed today dealing with restreaming of this event?
I don't like the way TL is moving, by being the lapdogs of greedy organisations such as GOMTV. It seems quite ambigous to provide VODs and restreams of BW, but stomp down on any mentioning of the same measure for SC2.
On September 02 2010 01:38 Go0g3n wrote: Let's see, 64 players, bo3/bo5 matches, - at least 50 hours of live HQ television(if you can call 500k HQ) and access to at least 130 VODs, realistically 60+ hours and ~200 vods for 50$, - not a bad deal.
No. i like to watch replayes from tournaments but im not interested in buying it like Pay Per View TV. I rather just wait untill someone have made an illegal copy of it.
And yes i am against pirates :p
EDIT: also if i WOULD pay i would not want to see one single add in what i am paying for.
Why don't they add some adds at the start that you can't jump ?
I'm not going that high of a price for watching a few video when we can get the same thing for free elsewhere. They need to change their business model, or this will fail badly.
I'd by willing to pay for the whole pack of VOD, but max 5-10$. Else i'll look somewhere else to get the Vod's...
I don't understand why they are trying to change their original model for advertising, shouldn't sponsors and advertisements cover the costs without these ridiculous prices? I feel like as soon as this gets implemented and no one pays to watch (except the few who can afford to), it's going to send the wrong message to the world and Blizzard--that e-sports isn't as profitable as they had hoped. This will unfortunately hurt the movement severely. This is a bad move on Gom's part, if anything they should keep things free with just advertisements at least until the game has a full fledged following and we can be assured of their quality of stream/vods (who remembers constant disconnects/black screens/broken VoDs?).
I loved GomTV for what they did for foreigners trying to get into the e-sports scene in korea. I loved the averatec Intel classic seasons. But this just seems too far.
this just shows how out of touch Blizz is with reality. they expect us to pay $20 to $30 USD to watch a tourney that doesnt even have a proven track record (like OSL/MSL). that is just stupid.
It seems like a lot of people here don't understand that things have largely been a free ride up to this point. I understand those of you who want a cheaper package for live + VODs, and those of you who want a higher quality stream for the price, but those who feel entitled to having it for free...
The only reason BW has been free to watch forever is because it is illegally pirate-streamed. I don't think it's unreasonable for a provider to explore a pay-per-view model for an esport that doesn't have the viewer numbers to support itself by advertising. This isn't football (either one) we're talking about; the market for live-streamed Korean e-sports commentated in english is not sufficient enough at this point to survive on the whims of advertiser generosity.
On September 01 2010 23:27 GogoKodo wrote: I can sort of see where some business guy came up with the pricing. MLG priced $10USD for a single weekend. So someone that deals with money and doesn't deal with Starcraft sees that and figures $20 for a whole season of GSL is a great price. However that $10 for MLG included streams for Halo, Tekken, Smash Bros., SC2 and WoW. It also added a feature for rewinding the live stream which some people enjoyed.
That $20 price would be OK with me if they had a free alternative so I could at least check out the stream first like MLG had. I could see if the amount of content and the stability of the stream could justify the price.
I have no idea how they came up with the VOD pricing though, seems like a number someone just thought up out of nowhere.
For whatever reason, I feel way more likely to buy an HQ stream if there is a free LQ stream. It feels moreso like an upgrade and in a sense a donation to support something you like.
Having to straight up pay for a stream is a sure way to make sure I (and evidently about 600 other people right now) won't pay.
Yeah this is how i feel about it, i just think paying for the stream is actually detrimental to esports but uprgadeing to an HD stream is supporting it.
As someone who'll watch anything BW related, but doesn't really care about SC2, have a wild guess as to how much I'll pay to the company trying to kill off BW to watch their tournament.
I'd probably buy the vods (though not for $30) if you could access them past the end of the season or if someone can provide a simple-to-use method of ripping them to my hard drive; iirc gom's vods were a pain in the ass to rip, and I just can't justify paying for temporary access to video game vods.
On September 02 2010 02:00 Lambast wrote: It seems like a lot of people here don't understand that things have largely been a free ride up to this point. I understand those of you who want a cheaper package for live + VODs, and those of you who want a higher quality stream for the price, but those who feel entitled to having it for free...
The only reason BW has been free to watch forever is because it is illegally pirate-streamed. I don't think it's unreasonable for a provider to explore a pay-per-view model for an esport that doesn't have the viewer numbers to support itself by advertising. This isn't football (either one) we're talking about; the market for live-streamed Korean e-sports commentated in english is not sufficient enough at this point to survive on the whims of advertiser generosity.
first of all, streaming a match you or someone else played/playing is not illegal.
and second, blizz/gretech is being stupid because the business model they are toying with is "stolen" from kespa, yet they cant do the job half as good. kespa's success didnt happen overnight, blizz need to learn that.
On September 02 2010 02:14 dybydx wrote: first of all, streaming a match you or someone else played/playing is not illegal.
and second, blizz/gretech is being stupid because the business model they are toying with is "stolen" from kespa, yet they cant do the job half as good. kespa's success didnt happen overnight, blizz need to learn that.
I'm talking about all of the live streaming of Korean pro events that goes on, bootlegged off of television channels.
I can see Blizzard's hand in this. Gom never did this kind of thing before. I guess it's in their contract with Blizz. Blizz MADE them do it.
Yes, because something bad has happened related to Starcraft, is MUST be Blizzard's fault. We have no evidence or rationale for thinking this, but that doesn't matter, because its Blizzard so EVERYTHING is their fault!
Please. If you're going to make accusations like that, you're gonna have to provide some more evidence than "Blizzard is teh Satan!!1!"
On the subject of the thread...
No, no I will definitely NOT be paying that. And it strikes me as a poor business decision--why not offer up a lower quality stream, probably with ads, for free or at a significantly cheaper price point, then offer premium service with hd and no ads for those who are willing to pay?
Well if they can sell some shity ponny for 25 or some stupid mappack for 15$. Why shouldnt they try to charge 20$ for a stream ? . I dont like this at all and I will never pay money for this lol. So this is the shit why theyre killing PL and BW off ? rofl. Haven fun trying.
Except the money goes to GOM, not Blizzard. Unless Blizzard is getting a significant cut of that $20, Blizzard's best interest would be for these streams to be free, because it provides more advertising for SC2. And I'm sure they'd rather have people buying $60 copies of SC2 rather than get a $5 or $10 cut (if they'd even get that much) from each stream buyer.
This pricing also really does remind me of Setanta sports a year or so ago, here in the UK.
Who went bankrupt and were unable to pay off loans and television rights because they were offering a pay per view type subscription along with a season pass (similar to this payment model offered by GomTv) for Football games (Premier League and England games etc). The service failed because people weren't willing to pay ridiculous prices when they were already most likely paying a monthly sub for there Cable or satellite TV....... which included a sports package. That also showed games from the Premier league etc
Im not saying that GomTv is going to go bankrupt but i don't see how there going to attract enough customers to make enough money though his payment model. Especially when tournaments like MLG and ESL offer a similar service for free and with no guarantee that your even getting a quality stream
I can see Blizzard's hand in this. Gom never did this kind of thing before. I guess it's in their contract with Blizz. Blizz MADE them do it.
Yes, because something bad has happened related to Starcraft, is MUST be Blizzard's fault. We have no evidence or rationale for thinking this, but that doesn't matter, because its Blizzard so EVERYTHING is their fault!
Please. If you're going to make accusations like that, you're gonna have to provide some more evidence than "Blizzard is teh Satan!!1!"
On the subject of the thread...
No, no I will definitely NOT be paying that. And it strikes me as a poor business decision--why not offer up a lower quality stream, probably with ads, for free or at a significantly cheaper price point, then offer premium service with hd and no ads for those who are willing to pay?
Well if they can sell some shity ponny for 25 or some stupid mappack for 15$. Why shouldnt they try to charge 20$ for a stream ? . I dont like this at all and I will never pay money for this lol. So this is the shit why theyre killing PL and BW off ? rofl. Haven fun trying.
Except the money goes to GOM, not Blizzard. Unless Blizzard is getting a significant cut of that $20, Blizzard's best interest would be for these streams to be free, because it provides more advertising for SC2. And I'm sure they'd rather have people buying $60 copies of SC2 rather than get a $5 or $10 cut (if they'd even get that much) from each stream buyer.
You don't know that. In fact the reason the price is so exobitant may be because Blizz takes a huge cut.
Wow that pricing is a slap in the face. Some people are saying they see some business man coming up with this pricing but let me tell you something he has no idea what he's doing. Whoever it is has no clue how to come up with pricing for something like this, not to mention any idea of how gamers like to consume products off the internet. Its sad really how far off the mark they were given who their consumers are.
On September 01 2010 22:48 0neder wrote: MAYBE if you could KEEP the VODs. wtf are you doing Blizzard?
My point on keeping VODs stands, but you hypocrites can't say you want e-sports to succeed and then not pony up the cash.
We want E-sports to succeed but we don't want to be ripped off... You can surely understand that this will surely make them less money because the majority of there audience isn't willing to pay those prices.
Poor Tastosis, no one will hear their commentary since we'll all be watching the OGN streams. Hopefully the horrific failure of this pricing scheme will force GOM to drop this shit as soon as they realize no one is biting.
On September 01 2010 22:48 0neder wrote: MAYBE if you could KEEP the VODs. wtf are you doing Blizzard?
My point on keeping VODs stands, but you hypocrites can't say you want e-sports to succeed and then not pony up the cash.
Esports' growth rests on the audience of those who don't own the game--because if the only people who ever were spectators were people who owned the game, we'd never see growth on the level of SC1. That type of accessibility is possible through free spectating--so that those who have no experience with the game can try the experience without risk. Without even so much as an option for free spectating, this has no chance of drawing new spectators. It's just unreasonable to expect people to pay to see a game for which they have no assurance of quality.
On September 01 2010 22:48 0neder wrote: MAYBE if you could KEEP the VODs. wtf are you doing Blizzard?
My point on keeping VODs stands, but you hypocrites can't say you want e-sports to succeed and then not pony up the cash.
Without quality assurance I'm not paying a dollar. How do I know the stream wont absolutely suck?
At least if they had a free LQ stream i'd likely buy the HQ stream just to support them. Money isn't inherently the issue for me but I like to know what I'm buying.
On September 01 2010 22:48 0neder wrote: MAYBE if you could KEEP the VODs. wtf are you doing Blizzard?
My point on keeping VODs stands, but you hypocrites can't say you want e-sports to succeed and then not pony up the cash.
You hypocrites say you want Blizzard to crush KeSPA and then not pony up the cash.
For all the other sports I enjoy I support it just by watching it for free.
In those other sports, if you want to watch them you have to pay, unless you watch it illegally. So you can't really compare them.
As many have said for SC2 atm, i can watch a free stream of Tournaments i.e. the GO4SC2 going on right now or watch a free stream of MLG and ESL. This difference is i can pay for HD if i want to. Which as others have said i feel far more willing to do that. Rather than GomTV forcing us to pay stupid prices for a new service with no quality guarantee
This is the internet, so people expect stuff to be free. Either from the provider or from another source of more shady origin. GOMTV really should know better than that, since they made a name for themselves by providing free-as-in-beer streams and VODs.
Maybe we should blame Artosis and Tasteless, maybe their exorbitant fees is the true reason GOMTV needs to rake in the money from the foreigners.
I sincerely hope that GOMTV will react to this outrage, if not then maybe Blizzard will tell GOMTV that they are alienating their fans this way.
Does anybody know how the OGN re-broadcasting is going to work? If its not super-delayed I'm sure people will just restream/upload those so it'll be fine.
My point on keeping VODs stands, but you hypocrites can't say you want e-sports to succeed and then not pony up the cash.
Sponsors, sponsors and sponsors, thats what makes sports big, not how much the viewers pay. And sponsors will not support the sport if no one is watching it.
On September 01 2010 22:48 0neder wrote: MAYBE if you could KEEP the VODs. wtf are you doing Blizzard?
My point on keeping VODs stands, but you hypocrites can't say you want e-sports to succeed and then not pony up the cash.
You hypocrites say you want Blizzard to crush KeSPA and then not pony up the cash.
For all the other sports I enjoy I support it just by watching it for free.
In those other sports, if you want to watch them you have to pay, unless you watch it illegally. So you can't really compare them.
As many have said for SC2 atm, i can watch a free stream of Tournaments i.e. the GO4SC2 going on right now or watch a free stream of MLG and ESL. This difference is i can pay for HD if i want to. Which as others have said i feel far more willing to do that. Rather than GomTV forcing us to pay stupid prices for a new service with no quality guarantee
You are wrong about having to pay to watch. I can pretty much mention any normal sport or esport thas been available for free to some extent
On September 02 2010 03:08 Kennigit wrote: I would get the paid stream if it meant no commercials. Obviously this is not the case - funny that OGN's free stream will be higher bitrate too 0_o
they need to clarify the whole season thing.
season = 1 year. ill pay $50 season = 6 months. maybe...(depending on the quality and lag on the stream) season = 1 month. gg. watch korean stream for free please
I can see Blizzard's hand in this. Gom never did this kind of thing before. I guess it's in their contract with Blizz. Blizz MADE them do it.
Yes, because something bad has happened related to Starcraft, is MUST be Blizzard's fault. We have no evidence or rationale for thinking this, but that doesn't matter, because its Blizzard so EVERYTHING is their fault!
Please. If you're going to make accusations like that, you're gonna have to provide some more evidence than "Blizzard is teh Satan!!1!"
On the subject of the thread...
No, no I will definitely NOT be paying that. And it strikes me as a poor business decision--why not offer up a lower quality stream, probably with ads, for free or at a significantly cheaper price point, then offer premium service with hd and no ads for those who are willing to pay?
Well if they can sell some shity ponny for 25 or some stupid mappack for 15$. Why shouldnt they try to charge 20$ for a stream ? . I dont like this at all and I will never pay money for this lol. So this is the shit why theyre killing PL and BW off ? rofl. Haven fun trying.
Except the money goes to GOM, not Blizzard. Unless Blizzard is getting a significant cut of that $20, Blizzard's best interest would be for these streams to be free, because it provides more advertising for SC2. And I'm sure they'd rather have people buying $60 copies of SC2 rather than get a $5 or $10 cut (if they'd even get that much) from each stream buyer.
You don't know that. In fact the reason the price is so exobitant may be because Blizz takes a huge cut.
IEM had a free stream. It's got nothing to do with Blizzard, Gretech is just being greedy and/or their business model has been done by a 5 year old kid.
this kinda ruined my excitement to watch... figures tastosis commenting would cost me $20... ill just wait for the SC2 Blizzcon tourney and then ill get to talk with em after the matches.
For a pay per view sporting event its not all that expensive if you think about it... MMA is what $70? NFL season pass is $250? I don't think its that expensive but my internet can't stream HD (Time Warner is very slow during primetime) and between work and school I don't think I have enough time to watch enough to be worth it. (NFL Season starting)
20 dollars for streaming doesn't seem that bad. Taking a look at the schedule they will be showing 32 matches in the next week alone, and that includes idra and some ogs as well. And the season seems to go until December(correct me if I am wrong, looking at gom.tv site).
30$ for the vods seems outrageous, I would hope they will drop the price considering it's only watchable for the current season. 5$ would be reasonable, or more if it was lifetime viewing.
Obviously I'd like it to be free personally but it's very doubtful now, just like alacarte for tv, it won't happen.
On September 02 2010 03:15 Kryptix wrote: For a pay per view sporting event its not all that expensive if you think about it... MMA is what $70? NFL season pass is $250? I don't think its that expensive but my internet can't stream HD (Time Warner is very slow during primetime) and between work and school I don't think I have enough time to watch enough to be worth it. (NFL Season starting)
yeah but thats HD quality on TV that is 99% of the time going to work well. Gom Stream. crap "high quality" stream and could have lag.
The stream and the VOD's are not top notch quality, they have issues with resolution, and FOR FUCKS SAKE they have commercials on them despite how much you paid.
On September 02 2010 01:41 Nilaus wrote: Anyone else noticed the amount of threads being closed today dealing with restreaming of this event?
I don't like the way TL is moving, by being the lapdogs of greedy organisations such as GOMTV. It seems quite ambigous to provide VODs and restreams of BW, but stomp down on any mentioning of the same measure for SC2.
We close restreams for every organization that requests it, provided they own the rights to their broadcasts. We did it for IEM, MLG, and we'll do it for GOM if they request it. We allow restreams of BW because we haven't been told by OGN or MBC to take them down. Additionally, the BW streams have a free stream, it's not paid premium.
On September 02 2010 03:15 Kryptix wrote: For a pay per view sporting event its not all that expensive if you think about it... MMA is what $70? NFL season pass is $250? I don't think its that expensive but my internet can't stream HD (Time Warner is very slow during primetime) and between work and school I don't think I have enough time to watch enough to be worth it. (NFL Season starting)
You forget that these kinds of events has like 100 games if not more
On September 02 2010 03:15 Kryptix wrote: For a pay per view sporting event its not all that expensive if you think about it... MMA is what $70? NFL season pass is $250? I don't think its that expensive but my internet can't stream HD (Time Warner is very slow during primetime) and between work and school I don't think I have enough time to watch enough to be worth it. (NFL Season starting)
MMA also has a ton of free content to get people into the sport. That and when you pay 70 dollars you know you're getting something that works.
This is not so with GomTV streams which are notorious for having issues..even the HQ stream had them
On September 02 2010 03:15 Kryptix wrote: For a pay per view sporting event its not all that expensive if you think about it... MMA is what $70? NFL season pass is $250? I don't think its that expensive but my internet can't stream HD (Time Warner is very slow during primetime) and between work and school I don't think I have enough time to watch enough to be worth it. (NFL Season starting)
During primetime ? GSL is live from Korea so the games are streamed at like 3 to 5am your time.
I will definitely not pay for the live stream. Might pay for some games, like the semi-finals/finals. Might pay for VOD if they change their pricing, let us keep the VODs after the season or release a DVD or something.
Conlusion: I'll find a restream from someone closer who's connection doesn't blow to korea. Also, I bet they would earn more money if they lowered the price to sensible levels.
A GOM employee's post on these forums claimed that part of the reason they are charging is so that they can afford servers in the US. Hopefully that will eliminate some of the problems we've had with streaming from GOM in the past.
On September 02 2010 03:32 theqat wrote: A GOM employee's post on these forums claimed that part of the reason they are charging is so that they can afford servers in the US. Hopefully that will eliminate some of the problems we've had with streaming from GOM in the past.
Really, really don't care.
Like, really extra super don't care. GOMTV was a nice service during the BW GSL 1, 2, and 3. I didn't mind the problems it had, because it was free. Now that there's no free option, I will not support it. Blizzard/GOM have to realize their biggest potential client base is a bunch of broke college students. Everyone else in other income brackets probably account for less than 50% of the total user base.
With these prices, though, it doesn't even matter. Wealthier people than myself are already scoffing at the cost.
This needs a boycott, seriously. They're getting way too greedy with this.
Looking back at the past Starcraft GOM Tourneys:
Gom Classic Season 1: Everything was free (Fantastic) Season 2: Pay for a high quality stream (Whatever) Season 3: Wait a few days before you could watch a video unless you paid (Try not to get spoiled) Now: ...
I understand wanting an income but 50$ is harsh. 10$ for both vods and stream is much more reasonable. There is about a 50% chance I pony up the money for a stream anyways.
On September 02 2010 03:32 theqat wrote: A GOM employee's post on these forums claimed that part of the reason they are charging is so that they can afford servers in the US. Hopefully that will eliminate some of the problems we've had with streaming from GOM in the past.
Really, really don't care.
Like, really extra super don't care. GOMTV was a nice service during the BW GSL 1, 2, and 3. I didn't mind the problems it had, because it was free. Now that there's no free option, I will not support it. Blizzard/GOM have to realize their biggest potential client base is a bunch of broke college students. Everyone else in other income brackets probably account for less than 50% of the total user base.
With these prices, though, it doesn't even matter. Wealthier people than myself are already scoffing at the cost.
I love the self-entitlement here. So you pretend to be a necessity to Blizzard/GOM yet you admit you're broke? It's one or the other. No one owes you anything.
On September 02 2010 03:32 theqat wrote: A GOM employee's post on these forums claimed that part of the reason they are charging is so that they can afford servers in the US. Hopefully that will eliminate some of the problems we've had with streaming from GOM in the past.
I think rather than blindly buying up server bandwidth, they probably would've had a better chance giving shitty streams from Korea for free/at lower prices - building up reliable demand before expanding their operations in such a way. Since almost no one will likely pay for service now, all this'll do is set them further into the red. A shame the GOMtv guy couldn't have come here earlier and been more proactive in receiving community feedback earlier like the ESL and especially the MLG guys have been doing.
"we know there is a very small community, but were trying to make sure it never grows, because people who are not already fans will never pay to watch!" (and we'll also lock out the current fans..who are for the most part VERY tech/internet savvy, and will eventually give it to everyone for free... but then we wont get their 'viewer count' added to ours, so we can show sponsors we are a worthwhile investment)
...? idk.. i just don't get how this is supposed to be helping e-sports/competitive gaming...
I understand profits, and business plans, and all of these things. But you need consumers before you can sell them a product...
the fact that it costs so much shows that they are expecting a low turn-out.
Also another major issue "so im paying 20$ for the chance to stay up from 3-5am and watch SC2"
MMA and NFL and every other sporting event offers the conveniency of being available during convenient times... not the case in this situation. another conveniency issue- for MMA, NFL, Any other sporting event you watch it on your TV and usually have a party or people over. This is on our computer... with our one computer chair. I have a 25 inch monitor, but would not expect friends to come over and stare at my computer monitor, like they would a TV.
unfortunately most of us will be asleep during the matches, so you won't be watching "live" either way, another reason why the free pirated streams/replays will be more popular.
I might considering paying something - but the current price tag is too high. The stream is out of the question since I'd barely be able to watch it due to the timing. The vods would be something I'd consider ... but 30$ a months for vods is just too much. I get 2 movies out at a time + instant streams (good quality) of available movies from netflix for only 15$ a month. There is no way that sc2 vods stacks up to double that value.
Edit: If it was 10-15$ a month for a Vod ticket I would consider it. Anything above that = no chance. The daily tickets are something I would consider though.
On September 02 2010 01:41 Nilaus wrote: Anyone else noticed the amount of threads being closed today dealing with restreaming of this event?
I don't like the way TL is moving, by being the lapdogs of greedy organisations such as GOMTV. It seems quite ambigous to provide VODs and restreams of BW, but stomp down on any mentioning of the same measure for SC2.
We close restreams for every organization that requests it, provided they own the rights to their broadcasts. We did it for IEM, MLG, and we'll do it for GOM if they request it. We allow restreams of BW because we haven't been told by OGN or MBC to take them down. Additionally, the BW streams have a free stream, it's not paid premium.
So does that mean TL.NET will not allow any stream/vod of all the major sc2 events from now on?!?!
On September 02 2010 04:01 CScythe wrote: The price is ridiculous. I will gladly pay, but the amount they're asking is too much. Why do they need to have such a high price?
According to them, so they can afford to buy servers. You know, they don't have enough money at the moment.
On September 02 2010 01:41 Nilaus wrote: Anyone else noticed the amount of threads being closed today dealing with restreaming of this event?
I don't like the way TL is moving, by being the lapdogs of greedy organisations such as GOMTV. It seems quite ambigous to provide VODs and restreams of BW, but stomp down on any mentioning of the same measure for SC2.
We close restreams for every organization that requests it, provided they own the rights to their broadcasts. We did it for IEM, MLG, and we'll do it for GOM if they request it. We allow restreams of BW because we haven't been told by OGN or MBC to take them down. Additionally, the BW streams have a free stream, it's not paid premium.
So does that mean TL.NET will not allow any stream/vod of all the major sc2 events from now on?!?!
Hasn't that been the case for awhile? A single link to MLG / ESL's stream with all restreams shut down?
On September 01 2010 23:01 NorthernRage wrote: I don't understand something.
Taken from the official thread:
On September 01 2010 18:13 GOMTV wrote:
On September 01 2010 18:10 velvetone wrote: Is that each episode/stream you watch charged. Or you pay once you're allowed to watch them all?
You can either buy tickets for the whole season or for 1 day.
Does that mean you have to pay $20 PER day for the stream?!?!
No; it's $2 per day. $20 is for the whole season.
I will be buying at least a VOD ticket because I can afford it and I can't resist. However, the whole thing is a shame and to that end I hope you all will bump my thread or JWD's thead at http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/forum/
If we make enough noise on GOM's site, they may reconsider. We're already having an impact on their server
Why would they reconsider if you're going to buy it anyway? Seriously... like... really. People like you :/.
On September 02 2010 01:41 Nilaus wrote: Anyone else noticed the amount of threads being closed today dealing with restreaming of this event?
I don't like the way TL is moving, by being the lapdogs of greedy organisations such as GOMTV. It seems quite ambigous to provide VODs and restreams of BW, but stomp down on any mentioning of the same measure for SC2.
We close restreams for every organization that requests it, provided they own the rights to their broadcasts. We did it for IEM, MLG, and we'll do it for GOM if they request it. We allow restreams of BW because we haven't been told by OGN or MBC to take them down. Additionally, the BW streams have a free stream, it's not paid premium.
So does that mean TL.NET will not allow any stream/vod of all the major sc2 events from now on?!?!
Hasn't that been the case for awhile? A single link to MLG / ESL's stream with all restreams shut down?
Weren't there links to the restreams in the 'official' thread during the IEM? Didn't see any restreams for MLG though.
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
On September 02 2010 01:41 Nilaus wrote: Anyone else noticed the amount of threads being closed today dealing with restreaming of this event?
I don't like the way TL is moving, by being the lapdogs of greedy organisations such as GOMTV. It seems quite ambigous to provide VODs and restreams of BW, but stomp down on any mentioning of the same measure for SC2.
We close restreams for every organization that requests it, provided they own the rights to their broadcasts. We did it for IEM, MLG, and we'll do it for GOM if they request it. We allow restreams of BW because we haven't been told by OGN or MBC to take them down. Additionally, the BW streams have a free stream, it's not paid premium.
So does that mean TL.NET will not allow any stream/vod of all the major sc2 events from now on?!?!
Hasn't that been the case for awhile? A single link to MLG / ESL's stream with all restreams shut down?
This is sad news man, I first came TL because of the VODs. Then I came because of the streams. Sad sad sad...
Lucid, you're talking about disrespect or throwing a fit, but that's completely unreasonable. I don't throw a fit when I pirate things. I just pirate them. I don't feel like pirating is a slap to someone's face. I don't feel "entitled". It's just a tool which I use to my benefit.
Why would I not pirate it? I can't afford it / won't buy it anyway, so they aren't losing anything.
On September 02 2010 01:41 Nilaus wrote: Anyone else noticed the amount of threads being closed today dealing with restreaming of this event?
I don't like the way TL is moving, by being the lapdogs of greedy organisations such as GOMTV. It seems quite ambigous to provide VODs and restreams of BW, but stomp down on any mentioning of the same measure for SC2.
We close restreams for every organization that requests it, provided they own the rights to their broadcasts. We did it for IEM, MLG, and we'll do it for GOM if they request it. We allow restreams of BW because we haven't been told by OGN or MBC to take them down. Additionally, the BW streams have a free stream, it's not paid premium.
So does that mean TL.NET will not allow any stream/vod of all the major sc2 events from now on?!?!
Thing is though, one could still stream gsl on ustream/livestream but just cant link it on tl It's more of a pain for gom to go to livestream and ask for a stream to be taken down than coming on tl and doing the same thing
On September 02 2010 04:13 Buddhist wrote: Lucid, you're talking about disrespect or throwing a fit, but that's completely unreasonable. I don't throw a fit when I pirate things. I just pirate them. I don't feel like pirating is a slap to someone's face. I don't feel "entitled". It's just a tool which I use to my benefit.
Why would I not pirate it? I can't afford it / won't buy it anyway, so they aren't losing anything.
I may not be talking about you particularly. I'm talking about that poll and people who feel the need to tell everyone they're going to pirate it. Proclaiming it at the top of your lungs isn't going to help. They'll feel it on their bottom line without saying a word about it. Having a circle jerk about how we're all going to steal it is really childish and I feel the community shouldn't conduct itself in that manner. Especially one that holds manners as a great importance.
On September 02 2010 01:41 Nilaus wrote: Anyone else noticed the amount of threads being closed today dealing with restreaming of this event?
I don't like the way TL is moving, by being the lapdogs of greedy organisations such as GOMTV. It seems quite ambigous to provide VODs and restreams of BW, but stomp down on any mentioning of the same measure for SC2.
We close restreams for every organization that requests it, provided they own the rights to their broadcasts. We did it for IEM, MLG, and we'll do it for GOM if they request it. We allow restreams of BW because we haven't been told by OGN or MBC to take them down. Additionally, the BW streams have a free stream, it's not paid premium.
So does that mean TL.NET will not allow any stream/vod of all the major sc2 events from now on?!?!
Hasn't that been the case for awhile? A single link to MLG / ESL's stream with all restreams shut down?
This is sad news man, I first came TL because of the VODs. Then I came because of the streams. Sad sad sad...
On September 02 2010 01:41 Nilaus wrote: Anyone else noticed the amount of threads being closed today dealing with restreaming of this event?
I don't like the way TL is moving, by being the lapdogs of greedy organisations such as GOMTV. It seems quite ambigous to provide VODs and restreams of BW, but stomp down on any mentioning of the same measure for SC2.
We close restreams for every organization that requests it, provided they own the rights to their broadcasts. We did it for IEM, MLG, and we'll do it for GOM if they request it. We allow restreams of BW because we haven't been told by OGN or MBC to take them down. Additionally, the BW streams have a free stream, it's not paid premium.
So does that mean TL.NET will not allow any stream/vod of all the major sc2 events from now on?!?!
Thing is though, one could still stream gsl on ustream/livestream but just cant link it on tl It's more of a pain for gom to go to livestream and ask for a stream to be taken down than coming on tl and doing the same thing
It's entirely possible for them to get streams shut down. Look at the Red Dead Redemption leak for example, plenty of streams and they all got banned pretty damn quickly. It's entirely up to GOM if they care enough/think it's worth the effort to shut streams down, it's definitely doable.
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
On September 02 2010 01:41 Nilaus wrote: Anyone else noticed the amount of threads being closed today dealing with restreaming of this event?
I don't like the way TL is moving, by being the lapdogs of greedy organisations such as GOMTV. It seems quite ambigous to provide VODs and restreams of BW, but stomp down on any mentioning of the same measure for SC2.
We close restreams for every organization that requests it, provided they own the rights to their broadcasts. We did it for IEM, MLG, and we'll do it for GOM if they request it. We allow restreams of BW because we haven't been told by OGN or MBC to take them down. Additionally, the BW streams have a free stream, it's not paid premium.
So does that mean TL.NET will not allow any stream/vod of all the major sc2 events from now on?!?!
Thing is though, one could still stream gsl on ustream/livestream but just cant link it on tl It's more of a pain for gom to go to livestream and ask for a stream to be taken down than coming on tl and doing the same thing
It's entirely possible for them to get streams shut down. Look at the Red Dead Redemption leak for example, plenty of streams and they all got banned pretty damn quickly. It's entirely up to GOM if they care enough/think it's worth the effort to shut streams down, it's definitely doable.
But I don't think livestream will react that quickly with a request from gom(especially compared to tl). But in your example it seems like they did react quickly.
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
All I can say is: 95% of us disagree.
Then don't expect a Korean company to ever try and provide us with anything in the future. The price is too high for sure I am on board with that. But respect the fact that there's a company inside Korea that wishes to reach out to the foreign community and try to be civil about their mistakes. That's all I am saying.
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
All I can say is: 95% of us disagree.
Speak for yourself. Maybe you like stealing and complaining about anything that isn't free, but I can assure you that 95% of people are not like that. Lucid is speaking the truth.
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
All I can say is: 95% of us disagree.
Then don't expect for a foreign company to ever try and provide us with anything in the future.
What foreign company?!?! You really buying this puppet front thing? It's Blizzard! Remember, NOTHING gets done in sc2 without the approval of Blizzard!
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
All I can say is: 95% of us disagree.
Then don't expect for a foreign company to ever try and provide us with anything in the future.
What foreign company?!?! You really buying this puppet front thing? It's Blizzard! Remember, NOTHING gets done in sc2 without the approval of Blizzard!
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
All I can say is: 95% of us disagree.
Then don't expect for a foreign company to ever try and provide us with anything in the future.
What foreign company?!?! You really buying this puppet front thing? It's Blizzard! Remember, NOTHING gets done in sc2 without the approval of Blizzard!
This kind of ludicrous, evidence-free conspiracy theorizing only makes you look bad. There's no need to impugn Blizzard for GOM's poor decision when there's no evidence that Blizzard influenced the decision in any way (aside from possibly charging a great deal for the rights to SC/2 broadcasting in Korea).
Furthermore, Gretech is an entrenched Korean media company, not some front that Blizzard erected solely to prop up its IP rights in Korea. That's simply how it is.
At any rate the pricing can be argued against on its own, without needing to bring Blizzard into it.
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
All I can say is: 95% of us disagree.
Speak for yourself. Maybe you like stealing and complaining about anything that isn't free, but I can assure you that 95% of people are not like that. Lucid is speaking the truth.
Noble sir, (almost) every sc youtube/vod/stream you watched until now are reproduced without the permission of the copyright holder.
Have the thought of "Maybe 'I' like stealing and complaining about anything that isn't free" ever came across your mind?
On September 02 2010 04:28 JimSocks wrote: free stream or no stream. give us a LQ version.
My school has bad internet anyways so I wont be able to see the HQ version that I'd have to pay for... stupid. Just plain stupid. Give me a $5 LQ choice.
Doing this will hurt the profit they make from advertising, not only because less people will watch it now, but because people who just paid for a tournament are going to be less persuaded to support Gom by buying the products being advertised. The cost for the stream is ridiculous, and despite DJ Wheat saying the cost boils down to about $0.33 a game, let people pay for individual vods then, that way I might possibly buy the vods with idra, artosis, and tlo in them, this way, I'm not going to be buying anything.
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
All I can say is: 95% of us disagree.
Speak for yourself. Maybe you like stealing and complaining about anything that isn't free, but I can assure you that 95% of people are not like that.
Agreed, but what more do you expect from the younger generation?
To the guy stating he was going to pirate because he wasn't going to buy in the first place, why would you complain about the pricing in the first place if you wasn't planning on buying? If you don't agree with the pricing, let your voices be heard on their forum and speak with your wallet. Pirating the VoDs wouldn't do anything but hurt these sorts of things from happening in the future when they see that, after offering the option to access VoDs and streams, that their products are getting downloaded in the masses. It's already a privilege for us to have the stream/Vods available with english commentary. They could have easily scratched that off the board and only provided the Korean coverage. However, for them to give us the quality that we want along with English commentary (that we were looking forward to), choices had to be made. If you don't like it, don't buy it but just going on a tandrum on pirating it really isn't making the community much different than other lacking game communities.
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
All I can say is: 95% of us disagree.
Then don't expect a Korean company to ever try and provide us with anything in the future. The price is too high for sure I am on board with that. But respect the fact that there's a company inside Korea that wishes to reach out to the foreign community and try to be civil about their mistakes. That's all I am saying.
well im glad you live in lala land but some people appreciate the truth
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
All I can say is: 95% of us disagree.
Speak for yourself. Maybe you like stealing and complaining about anything that isn't free, but I can assure you that 95% of people are not like that. Lucid is speaking the truth.
The 95% was probably a reference to the poll. Makes sense.
As for the whole issue - it's their tournament, their enterprise and they are free to develop it as they think fit. They definitely put a lot of money on the line, so they, somehow, expect at least the same amount back.
Having said that, I also must say that I wouldn't pay even the tiniest amount in the world just to have access to a stream (paying to increase quality / get rid of commercials is a completely different issue). I do this not because said amount would make a hole in my finances, but rather because I feel it's fundamentally flawed and an extremely wrong approach. SC2 should get as much publicity and as many viewers as humanly possible, in order to grow, and in order to, like any other sport (or every other major business on this planet) finance itself through the advertisement - customer relationship. I don't see how a $30 stream is going to attract anyone but the hardcore fans.
I feel that this strategy is going to take a huge toll on their viewer count, and I don't see how they're gonna be able to keep up with future events if this will really be the case.
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
All I can say is: 95% of us disagree.
Speak for yourself. Maybe you like stealing and complaining about anything that isn't free, but I can assure you that 95% of people are not like that.
To the guy stating he was going to pirate because he wasn't going to buy in the first place, why would you complain about the pricing in the first place if you wasn't planning on buying?
Well, there are A LOT of ppl in this thread that aren't going to pay for this stream and still complain about it. Are you saying that everyone is wrong?
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
All I can say is: 95% of us disagree.
Speak for yourself. Maybe you like stealing and complaining about anything that isn't free, but I can assure you that 95% of people are not like that. Lucid is speaking the truth.
Noble sir, (almost) every sc youtube/vod/stream you watched until now are reproduced without the permission of the copyright holder.
Have the thought of "Maybe 'I' like stealing and complaining about anything that isn't free" ever came across your mind?
Has it ever come across to you that the advertisements and sponsorships that pay for those broadcasts mean absolutely nothing to us foreigners so OGN and MBC probably don't care that it's restreamed for the foreign community because it is completely irrelevant to their business?
This is also probably why it's costing us foreigners money because the advertising and sponsorships simply aren't quite there for something like this.
I'd pay for it if I had some assurance (in the form of a trial first or something--I feel they should make the first broadcast first or something so we could see what we'll get?) that what I'm buying is going to be worth it.
To the guy stating he was going to pirate because he wasn't going to buy in the first place, why would you complain about the pricing in the first place if you wasn't planning on buying?
You guys seem to be confusing "upset and complaining" with "not going to buy". I'm not going to buy it. I haven't complained yet. If I want to watch it, it'll be for free. That's all there is to it.
I do think they have terrible, terrible decision making abilities though. They could make 10 times as much if they charged 1/10th as much.
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
All I can say is: 95% of us disagree.
Speak for yourself. Maybe you like stealing and complaining about anything that isn't free, but I can assure you that 95% of people are not like that.
To the guy stating he was going to pirate because he wasn't going to buy in the first place, why would you complain about the pricing in the first place if you wasn't planning on buying?
Well, there are A LOT of ppl in this thread that aren't going to pay for this stream and still complain about it. Are you saying that everyone is wrong?
No, not at all. I agree the price is pretty high for what you're getting. I assure you though, if the price was lower, higher quality, etc., that most would actually purchase. From what I took from your statement, it reflected that regardless of price, you weren't going to pay for it anyway. I would assume this would apply if the stream was a $1. If you weren't going to purchase to watch the stream, then why would you complain when the price is actually higher than expected?
If they really wanted to expand the e-sports community in the west, A) they would have made the preliminaries to their tournament online (lol, having to fly to korea?), B) they would make their streaming options welcoming to foreigners instead of extremely unappealing
They probably don't care about foreign viewership. I don't know why, but that would be my guess. Oh well.
according to the GOM website, TG-Intel are the primary sponsors again for this tournament (just like the Gom Classic for BW). but we have to recognize the fact that TG-Intel paid their sponsorship costs because they expect there will be alot of viewers and get good PR for their products. right now, this do not appear to be the case, especially if they piss off OGN/MBC.
Excellent, I already had an account for BW(<3) viewing. I suggest everyone else makes accounts now in anticipation of the matches. Provided that OGN will stream it. ^_^;
They do need to make some return on the bandwidth and other costs associated with having english streams (in addition to paying artosis and tasteless) and serving Korean ads to people thousands of miles away does not make them money.
They attempted to do this during the gom sc1 leagues with "donations" and prize tickets or whatever. They've had all the time in the world to come up with a better solution and instead opted for a worse one either out of greed or just stupidity.
If there was no english stream to begin with there'd be no questions about restreaming
Kinda works for me living with roommates I suppose we can share the bill. We regulary watch an MMA event or two a month for 55 bucks each. A month of 120+ games and many hours of entertainment seems worth it. I'll probably be buying it. I'd imagine the round of 8 and up will be pretty entertaining and that's at least a few hours.
It was nice being free, I participated in the beta donations in Season 2 and the 50 dollar pricing model of Season 3. Enjoyed the hell out of it. My roommates really enjoyed watching MLG and this will probably be of much higher production.
It would be nice to know where all of the money is going to, but there will definitely be complaints from me at least if it isn't smooth. 500k stream doesn't really seem high enough to be considered high quality, unless they have some super Netflix compression or something.
On September 02 2010 04:37 Buddhist wrote:I do think they have terrible, terrible decision making abilities though. They could make 10 times as much if they charged 1/10th as much.
Exactly. If you're selling an ice cream for 20 dollars with 50 cent costs and 5 people buy it, you earn 97.50$. If you sell it for 1 dollar and 5000 people buy it, you earn 2500$.
No way I am paying for this. I am very excited about this GOM league and I really wish them huge succes but I think selling tickets for live stream and VODs is a big mistake.
They should stream for free and sell HD stream just like MLG did. I am so dissapointed now. I was so hyped for this event. I guess Ill read the results on this forum. /sigh.
Back when GOM did the "donate for HD stream" thing back in BW, I donated and didn't think about it at all because GOMTV were awesome and it was cheap entertainment. But now, when we are forced into it, I just don't like the idea of paying because it just seems so greedy/stupid/anti-esports. Understandable that they want some ways to earn money from the foreigners watching as well though, especially considering the amount of money that Gretech sunk into this project, but this isn't the way and it just won't work, you just can't stop every guy restreaming and everyone is gonna find them easily. For the current price, very few people will buy it, a ton of people will restream it and the majority will watch restreams for free.
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
are you fucking serious? who the fuck cares about "disrespect" and the "feelings" of the ingrate whos making these decisions.. $30 a month for watching VODs for a VIDEO GAME is insane. considering youve already paid $60 for to simply play it (only first game of the series mind you). two months later youve paid the same price just to watch games?
no one in their right mind is gonna pay $30 a month to watch gonna a video game (even if it is sc.. especially SO god dam early in the life of the game where theres still so many balancing issues and other shit to deal with). thirty dollars a month is A LOT of money for the target audience (teens and ppl in their twenties). internet access comes to about $30 for most people... whos gonna match that to just watch a game?
maybe they should change it so that its like $30 bucks for the VODs but they stream for free.. or are uploaded on youtube or something.... this is not gonna last.
if they want it to succeed as an e-sport. they gotta make it AS accessible to everyone who might be a little curious about the game... not shut out the majority fan base and the general popultaion. this is GOING to create piracy (which will happen)
considering sc2 is like the first game to ever be designed to become an esport, the restrictions on bnet 2.0 (lack of lan mainly.. chat rooms are FINALLY coming back lol) and this $30 to watch games shit is gonna kill the game and never let it thrive.
this is taking into account that sc2 isnt (IMO) as fun and intense to watch as bw (mostly cause its still new and hasnt evolved, and also cause the skill level is still far lower than what flash and jaedong are performing at which just isnt as interesting to watch.. IMO at least)
im a cheap ass college kid. I love bw cause its such a good game to play and i can watch pros play at a godlike level FOR FREE. im certain that if there was no korean bw scene i wouldnta ever logged into iccup and woulda forgotten about sc a very very long time ago. again.. this is gonna kill the game......... sigh
well.. i guess this is how they thought theyre gonna raise the money to hit that 80k winning prize haha
this is so stupid. GSL will be the biggest SC2 thing for a long time, with tastosis casting how many viewers you can get? I'd say that with proper word spreading 50 000 is possible. SC2 is HOT right now, there is plenty of companies wishing to get involved with advertisement, don't tell me GOM wasn't able to find any willing to pay them some good money? Or how many people do they think will buy they expensive stream/vods ticket? I'd say at MAX 500. 500x25 = 12500$. Don't tell me they wouldn't get this from interested companies T_T
I would consider buying if it was maybe $35 or less for both VOD and Stream. Separately, the options both have huge ups-and-downs. You can get VODs spoiled and some people like the suspense of live events; however, you could go watch any game at any time. For streams, you will have to alter your schedule, and some series might be flat out stupid. They also have streaming issues in itself. But you get the live matches without spoilers...it is so intense to see whether IdrA will defeat the all-in push or not.
If OGN or a restream will be provided, I will be perfectly fine with those options though, as it isn't much of a downgrade.
If I can get the full 500 kbit/s here in Sweden, with no lag, and the games are played on sunday mornings like the intel thingy on gom was. Then I'll probably pay for it. But I have an income that let me spend $20 on random stuff. I can see how it would suck for anyone studying or working at minimum wage though.
I would like to see something like 5$ per replay pack. A replay pack includes an entire round of the tournament. For instance in the first round you will get the most games, but a lot of them are going to be weaker players. Each round you will get less matches for your money, but the quality of the matches will get better as the competition gets stronger one each side.
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
are you fucking serious? who the fuck cares about "disrespect" and the "feelings" of the ingrate whos making these decisions.. $30 a month for watching VODs for a VIDEO GAME is insane. considering youve already paid $60 for to simply play it (only first game of the series mind you). two months later youve paid the same price just to watch games?
no one in their right mind is gonna pay $30 a month to watch gonna a video game (even if it is sc.. especially SO god dam early in the life of the game where theres still so many balancing issues and other shit to deal with). thirty dollars a month is A LOT of money for the target audience (teens and ppl in their twenties). internet access comes to about $30 for most people... whos gonna match that to just watch a game?
maybe they should change it so that its like $30 bucks for the VODs but they stream for free.. or are uploaded on youtube or something.... this is not gonna last.
if they want it to succeed as an e-sport. they gotta make it AS accessible to everyone who might be a little curious about the game... not shut out the majority fan base and the general popultaion. this is GOING to create piracy (which will happen)
considering sc2 is like the first game to ever be designed to become an esport, the restrictions on bnet 2.0 (lack of lan mainly.. chat rooms are FINALLY coming back lol) and this $30 to watch games shit is gonna kill the game and never let it thrive.
this is taking into account that sc2 isnt (IMO) as fun and intense to watch as bw (mostly cause its still new and hasnt evolved, and also cause the skill level is still far lower than what flash and jaedong are performing at which just isnt as interesting to watch.. IMO at least)
im a cheap ass college kid. I love bw cause its such a good game to play and i can watch pros play at a godlike level FOR FREE. im certain that if there was no korean bw scene i wouldnta ever logged into iccup and woulda forgotten about sc a very very long time ago. again.. this is gonna kill the game......... sigh
well.. i guess this is how they thought theyre gonna raise the money to hit that 80k winning prize haha
I am in no way saying that 20, 30 or 50 bucks is reasonable for a live stream or VoDs. I will not pay that much either personally. I am just saying there's a better way to go about voicing your opinion to GOMtv. Is a professional company going to listen more to the nerds flaming them for their business decisions on forums or to the people who remain calm, mannered and convey their opinion with logic, complete sentences and decency? The same applies when dealing with any sort of customer service.
On September 02 2010 01:41 Nilaus wrote: Anyone else noticed the amount of threads being closed today dealing with restreaming of this event?
I don't like the way TL is moving, by being the lapdogs of greedy organisations such as GOMTV. It seems quite ambigous to provide VODs and restreams of BW, but stomp down on any mentioning of the same measure for SC2.
We close restreams for every organization that requests it, provided they own the rights to their broadcasts. We did it for IEM, MLG, and we'll do it for GOM if they request it. We allow restreams of BW because we haven't been told by OGN or MBC to take them down. Additionally, the BW streams have a free stream, it's not paid premium.
So does that mean TL.NET will not allow any stream/vod of all the major sc2 events from now on?!?!
Hasn't that been the case for awhile? A single link to MLG / ESL's stream with all restreams shut down?
This is sad news man, I first came TL because of the VODs. Then I came because of the streams. Sad sad sad...
Why is that sad? Just watch on the official stream or request that they allow restreams.
On September 02 2010 01:41 Nilaus wrote: Anyone else noticed the amount of threads being closed today dealing with restreaming of this event?
I don't like the way TL is moving, by being the lapdogs of greedy organisations such as GOMTV. It seems quite ambigous to provide VODs and restreams of BW, but stomp down on any mentioning of the same measure for SC2.
We close restreams for every organization that requests it, provided they own the rights to their broadcasts. We did it for IEM, MLG, and we'll do it for GOM if they request it. We allow restreams of BW because we haven't been told by OGN or MBC to take them down. Additionally, the BW streams have a free stream, it's not paid premium.
So does that mean TL.NET will not allow any stream/vod of all the major sc2 events from now on?!?!
Hasn't that been the case for awhile? A single link to MLG / ESL's stream with all restreams shut down?
This is sad news man, I first came TL because of the VODs. Then I came because of the streams. Sad sad sad...
Why is that sad? Just watch on the official stream or request that they allow restreams.
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
id rather just be able to come to tl and watch them online like the bw VODs section or just go on youtube.. this is gonna eff up the commentators too lol
this blows... especially considering MSL and proleague are up in the air
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
are you fucking serious? who the fuck cares about "disrespect" and the "feelings" of the ingrate whos making these decisions.. $30 a month for watching VODs for a VIDEO GAME is insane. considering youve already paid $60 for to simply play it (only first game of the series mind you). two months later youve paid the same price just to watch games?
no one in their right mind is gonna pay $30 a month to watch gonna a video game (even if it is sc.. especially SO god dam early in the life of the game where theres still so many balancing issues and other shit to deal with). thirty dollars a month is A LOT of money for the target audience (teens and ppl in their twenties). internet access comes to about $30 for most people... whos gonna match that to just watch a game?
maybe they should change it so that its like $30 bucks for the VODs but they stream for free.. or are uploaded on youtube or something.... this is not gonna last.
if they want it to succeed as an e-sport. they gotta make it AS accessible to everyone who might be a little curious about the game... not shut out the majority fan base and the general popultaion. this is GOING to create piracy (which will happen)
considering sc2 is like the first game to ever be designed to become an esport, the restrictions on bnet 2.0 (lack of lan mainly.. chat rooms are FINALLY coming back lol) and this $30 to watch games shit is gonna kill the game and never let it thrive.
this is taking into account that sc2 isnt (IMO) as fun and intense to watch as bw (mostly cause its still new and hasnt evolved, and also cause the skill level is still far lower than what flash and jaedong are performing at which just isnt as interesting to watch.. IMO at least)
im a cheap ass college kid. I love bw cause its such a good game to play and i can watch pros play at a godlike level FOR FREE. im certain that if there was no korean bw scene i wouldnta ever logged into iccup and woulda forgotten about sc a very very long time ago. again.. this is gonna kill the game......... sigh
well.. i guess this is how they thought theyre gonna raise the money to hit that 80k winning prize haha
I bought a football so I could play it with my friends, and now I have to pay to watch it on my TV. That is SO unfair.
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
are you fucking serious? who the fuck cares about "disrespect" and the "feelings" of the ingrate whos making these decisions.. $30 a month for watching VODs for a VIDEO GAME is insane. considering youve already paid $60 for to simply play it (only first game of the series mind you). two months later youve paid the same price just to watch games?
no one in their right mind is gonna pay $30 a month to watch gonna a video game (even if it is sc.. especially SO god dam early in the life of the game where theres still so many balancing issues and other shit to deal with). thirty dollars a month is A LOT of money for the target audience (teens and ppl in their twenties). internet access comes to about $30 for most people... whos gonna match that to just watch a game?
maybe they should change it so that its like $30 bucks for the VODs but they stream for free.. or are uploaded on youtube or something.... this is not gonna last.
if they want it to succeed as an e-sport. they gotta make it AS accessible to everyone who might be a little curious about the game... not shut out the majority fan base and the general popultaion. this is GOING to create piracy (which will happen)
considering sc2 is like the first game to ever be designed to become an esport, the restrictions on bnet 2.0 (lack of lan mainly.. chat rooms are FINALLY coming back lol) and this $30 to watch games shit is gonna kill the game and never let it thrive.
this is taking into account that sc2 isnt (IMO) as fun and intense to watch as bw (mostly cause its still new and hasnt evolved, and also cause the skill level is still far lower than what flash and jaedong are performing at which just isnt as interesting to watch.. IMO at least)
im a cheap ass college kid. I love bw cause its such a good game to play and i can watch pros play at a godlike level FOR FREE. im certain that if there was no korean bw scene i wouldnta ever logged into iccup and woulda forgotten about sc a very very long time ago. again.. this is gonna kill the game......... sigh
well.. i guess this is how they thought theyre gonna raise the money to hit that 80k winning prize haha
I am in no way saying that 20, 30 or 50 bucks is reasonable for a live stream or VoDs. I will not pay that much either personally. I am just saying there's a better way to go about voicing your opinion to GOMtv. Is a professional company going to listen more to the nerds flaming them for their business decisions on forums or to the people who remain calm, mannered and convey their opinion with logic, complete sentences and decency? The same applies when dealing with any sort of customer service.
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
are you fucking serious? who the fuck cares about "disrespect" and the "feelings" of the ingrate whos making these decisions.. $30 a month for watching VODs for a VIDEO GAME is insane. considering youve already paid $60 for to simply play it (only first game of the series mind you). two months later youve paid the same price just to watch games?
no one in their right mind is gonna pay $30 a month to watch gonna a video game (even if it is sc.. especially SO god dam early in the life of the game where theres still so many balancing issues and other shit to deal with). thirty dollars a month is A LOT of money for the target audience (teens and ppl in their twenties). internet access comes to about $30 for most people... whos gonna match that to just watch a game?
maybe they should change it so that its like $30 bucks for the VODs but they stream for free.. or are uploaded on youtube or something.... this is not gonna last.
if they want it to succeed as an e-sport. they gotta make it AS accessible to everyone who might be a little curious about the game... not shut out the majority fan base and the general popultaion. this is GOING to create piracy (which will happen)
considering sc2 is like the first game to ever be designed to become an esport, the restrictions on bnet 2.0 (lack of lan mainly.. chat rooms are FINALLY coming back lol) and this $30 to watch games shit is gonna kill the game and never let it thrive.
this is taking into account that sc2 isnt (IMO) as fun and intense to watch as bw (mostly cause its still new and hasnt evolved, and also cause the skill level is still far lower than what flash and jaedong are performing at which just isnt as interesting to watch.. IMO at least)
im a cheap ass college kid. I love bw cause its such a good game to play and i can watch pros play at a godlike level FOR FREE. im certain that if there was no korean bw scene i wouldnta ever logged into iccup and woulda forgotten about sc a very very long time ago. again.. this is gonna kill the game......... sigh
well.. i guess this is how they thought theyre gonna raise the money to hit that 80k winning prize haha
I bought a football so I could play it with my friends, and now I have to pay to watch it on my TV. That is SO unfair.
Dduh..
Are you actually paying for a specific sports channel that casts only football? If so, is it close to $30? Lastly, how would you rate the popularity of SC compared to football? Thanks, great comparison by the way.
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
are you fucking serious? who the fuck cares about "disrespect" and the "feelings" of the ingrate whos making these decisions.. $30 a month for watching VODs for a VIDEO GAME is insane. considering youve already paid $60 for to simply play it (only first game of the series mind you). two months later youve paid the same price just to watch games?
no one in their right mind is gonna pay $30 a month to watch gonna a video game (even if it is sc.. especially SO god dam early in the life of the game where theres still so many balancing issues and other shit to deal with). thirty dollars a month is A LOT of money for the target audience (teens and ppl in their twenties). internet access comes to about $30 for most people... whos gonna match that to just watch a game?
maybe they should change it so that its like $30 bucks for the VODs but they stream for free.. or are uploaded on youtube or something.... this is not gonna last.
if they want it to succeed as an e-sport. they gotta make it AS accessible to everyone who might be a little curious about the game... not shut out the majority fan base and the general popultaion. this is GOING to create piracy (which will happen)
considering sc2 is like the first game to ever be designed to become an esport, the restrictions on bnet 2.0 (lack of lan mainly.. chat rooms are FINALLY coming back lol) and this $30 to watch games shit is gonna kill the game and never let it thrive.
this is taking into account that sc2 isnt (IMO) as fun and intense to watch as bw (mostly cause its still new and hasnt evolved, and also cause the skill level is still far lower than what flash and jaedong are performing at which just isnt as interesting to watch.. IMO at least)
im a cheap ass college kid. I love bw cause its such a good game to play and i can watch pros play at a godlike level FOR FREE. im certain that if there was no korean bw scene i wouldnta ever logged into iccup and woulda forgotten about sc a very very long time ago. again.. this is gonna kill the game......... sigh
well.. i guess this is how they thought theyre gonna raise the money to hit that 80k winning prize haha
I bought a football so I could play it with my friends, and now I have to pay to watch it on my TV. That is SO unfair.
Dduh..
Dude, that's because you brought the "wrong" football. Instead if you brought "that" football they used in the game. They will have to pay you!
It's perfectly reasonable considering what it costs them to provide the stream.
$30 a season for the VOD ticket (300+ games) and $20 for a season of streaming (150+ events) seems like a good deal to me. I wish everyone freaking out about paying $30 a month would actually learn to read, go to the GOMtv site and read the details instead of sperging out.
On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote: Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!!
YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!
Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Yes! (103)
86%
Not Sure. (9)
8%
No! (8)
7%
120 total votes
Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it.
The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now.
Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause.
are you fucking serious? who the fuck cares about "disrespect" and the "feelings" of the ingrate whos making these decisions.. $30 a month for watching VODs for a VIDEO GAME is insane. considering youve already paid $60 for to simply play it (only first game of the series mind you). two months later youve paid the same price just to watch games?
no one in their right mind is gonna pay $30 a month to watch gonna a video game (even if it is sc.. especially SO god dam early in the life of the game where theres still so many balancing issues and other shit to deal with). thirty dollars a month is A LOT of money for the target audience (teens and ppl in their twenties). internet access comes to about $30 for most people... whos gonna match that to just watch a game?
maybe they should change it so that its like $30 bucks for the VODs but they stream for free.. or are uploaded on youtube or something.... this is not gonna last.
if they want it to succeed as an e-sport. they gotta make it AS accessible to everyone who might be a little curious about the game... not shut out the majority fan base and the general popultaion. this is GOING to create piracy (which will happen)
considering sc2 is like the first game to ever be designed to become an esport, the restrictions on bnet 2.0 (lack of lan mainly.. chat rooms are FINALLY coming back lol) and this $30 to watch games shit is gonna kill the game and never let it thrive.
this is taking into account that sc2 isnt (IMO) as fun and intense to watch as bw (mostly cause its still new and hasnt evolved, and also cause the skill level is still far lower than what flash and jaedong are performing at which just isnt as interesting to watch.. IMO at least)
im a cheap ass college kid. I love bw cause its such a good game to play and i can watch pros play at a godlike level FOR FREE. im certain that if there was no korean bw scene i wouldnta ever logged into iccup and woulda forgotten about sc a very very long time ago. again.. this is gonna kill the game......... sigh
well.. i guess this is how they thought theyre gonna raise the money to hit that 80k winning prize haha
I bought a football so I could play it with my friends, and now I have to pay to watch it on my TV. That is SO unfair.
Dduh..
Are you actually paying for a specific sports channel that casts only football? If so, is it close to $30? Lastly, how would you rate the popularity of SC compared to football? Thanks, great comparison by the way.
There is a package that is like $250, but this gets you every single football game each week, in HD, with multiple other bonuses, with consistent service, and its the entire season, so like 3 months.
For 3 months of GSL coverage, at like $150, you get 500k low quality, inconsistent stream. Man.
On September 02 2010 05:32 Pedo.Bear wrote: WHO PAID EXTRA TO SPECIFICALLY WATCH THE WORLD CUP? WHO PAID EXTRA TO SPECIFICALLY WATCH THE OLYMPICS?
not I.
The magnitude of those events are exponentially larger than the StarCraft II foreigner community. We are an extremely tiny niche community when it comes to broadcasting. Lots of people do pay extra for Boxing, MMA, American Football, Baseball, Hockey and Basketball games that are not broadcasted by their local cable service. People will pay literally hundreds of dollars for it too.
In this particular case the price does not seem to be right, however. Many of us can not afford the combined cost of the VoD and livestream or don't want to pay that much. I believe they'll find this out pretty quickly too.
On September 02 2010 05:33 Doomrok wrote: It's perfectly reasonable considering what it costs them to provide the stream.
$30 a season for the VOD ticket (300+ games) and $20 for a season of streaming (150+ events) seems like a good deal to me. I wish everyone freaking out about paying $30 a month would actually learn to read, go to the GOMtv site and read the details instead of sperging out.
Exactly.
Just because streaming is still in it's infancy compared to other services on our merry planet, doesn't mean it shouldn't be "exploited" as a money-maker.
Besides, money talks, and every cent poured into e-sports will contribute to it's growth.
The reason the VOD ticket is OUTRAGEOUS is because it's a RENTAL! A TEMPORARY rental of 1 month worth of games for $30 is terribly overpriced. Especially since a "season" is apparently going to only be 1 month long.
You can rent a full season of a high production value HD television show for LESS than $30 on iTunes. Netflix gives you access to a monstrous SD/HD television and movie catalog for $9/month as long as you are an active subscriber. Both iTunes and Netflix let you view without commercials, but I bet Gom will be packed full of commercials.
On September 02 2010 05:33 Doomrok wrote: It's perfectly reasonable considering what it costs them to provide the stream.
$30 a season for the VOD ticket (300+ games) and $20 for a season of streaming (150+ events) seems like a good deal to me. I wish everyone freaking out about paying $30 a month would actually learn to read, go to the GOMtv site and read the details instead of sperging out.
300 (games) * 15(min(ish) per game) / 60 (min in an hour) = 75 hours 75 hours / 24 hours = 3.125 days of continuous gameplay.
thats AWESOME for $30 IF your INSANE or super HARDCORE
im assuming most people dont really wanna watch the unheard of people in the ro64 and ro32 (except for like idra and TLO's games and ppl that they know of) play their games.. the most interesting games are the ro8 ro4 and finals.. where the real talent is displayed.. which isnt that many games...
not everyone has the time to watch 3.125 days worth of games.... considering there are like 10 seasons a year or something... thats 31 days of games... a MONTH of just watching sc for $300.. sounds awesome... but you gotta be pretty hardcore to keep up with that... and most ppl ARE NOT hardcore as we have jobs, school, and a life to attend to...
not willing to part with three hundered of my hard earned dollars to give up a twelfth of my year to WATCH, not play.. just watch starcraft... that too sc2 not bw
On September 02 2010 05:33 Doomrok wrote: It's perfectly reasonable considering what it costs them to provide the stream.
$30 a season for the VOD ticket (300+ games) and $20 for a season of streaming (150+ events) seems like a good deal to me. I wish everyone freaking out about paying $30 a month would actually learn to read, go to the GOMtv site and read the details instead of sperging out.
Didn't read the site but went off the comments in this thread. If that's really the case, then that is not bad at all. Might consider purchasing now and contribute. Thank you for the heads up on that important information that most of us have overlooked.
On September 02 2010 01:41 Nilaus wrote: Anyone else noticed the amount of threads being closed today dealing with restreaming of this event?
I don't like the way TL is moving, by being the lapdogs of greedy organisations such as GOMTV. It seems quite ambigous to provide VODs and restreams of BW, but stomp down on any mentioning of the same measure for SC2.
We close restreams for every organization that requests it, provided they own the rights to their broadcasts. We did it for IEM, MLG, and we'll do it for GOM if they request it. We allow restreams of BW because we haven't been told by OGN or MBC to take them down. Additionally, the BW streams have a free stream, it's not paid premium.
So does that mean TL.NET will not allow any stream/vod of all the major sc2 events from now on?!?!
Hasn't that been the case for awhile? A single link to MLG / ESL's stream with all restreams shut down?
This is sad news man, I first came TL because of the VODs. Then I came because of the streams. Sad sad sad...
Why is that sad? Just watch on the official stream or request that they allow restreams.
Is TL going to request restream?
I can't infer what you are asking here so I will say no.
Even worse. $30 for 2 weeks worth of VODs, and the VODs will be taken down soon after it's over.
That I don't get at all, why the fuck do they take the vods down?
Probably penny pinching. Trying to save up supposed server bandwidth costs or something. Maybe also to make sure that people who subscribe later rather than sooner don't get the added value of having extra stuff available. Not too sure how I feel about that though.
On September 02 2010 01:41 Nilaus wrote: Anyone else noticed the amount of threads being closed today dealing with restreaming of this event?
I don't like the way TL is moving, by being the lapdogs of greedy organisations such as GOMTV. It seems quite ambigous to provide VODs and restreams of BW, but stomp down on any mentioning of the same measure for SC2.
We close restreams for every organization that requests it, provided they own the rights to their broadcasts. We did it for IEM, MLG, and we'll do it for GOM if they request it. We allow restreams of BW because we haven't been told by OGN or MBC to take them down. Additionally, the BW streams have a free stream, it's not paid premium.
So does that mean TL.NET will not allow any stream/vod of all the major sc2 events from now on?!?!
Hasn't that been the case for awhile? A single link to MLG / ESL's stream with all restreams shut down?
This is sad news man, I first came TL because of the VODs. Then I came because of the streams. Sad sad sad...
Why is that sad? Just watch on the official stream or request that they allow restreams.
Is TL going to request restream?
I can't infer what you are asking here so I will say no.
He was asking whether TL would make the request for him, presumably because TL requesting something carries a lot more weight than mmdmmd requesting something. I would imagine the answer would still be the same, however.
There will be other tournaments to watch anyway. I wouldn't pay a dime, no f'in way man, this is pathetic and they did this with all their other series but the VODS were free in their other season. This is bullcrap you got to build the e-sport scene before you start asking for frikin' pro fighting fees like pay per view broski.
I use Linux so It doesn't make a difference for me, I can't use the GOMTV player, I will be looking for restreams anyway. Maybe if I could get GOMTV player working with Wine or something I'd watch for Artosis and Tasteless but IDK if its worth $20 :/
Well that sucks... so much for me looking forward to the GSL anymore, seeing as I won't even be able to watch a single game during or after they're played. It's pretty absurd that they think charging $20 a month to watch the games live (so you better not miss a game or too f'ing bad!), in a stream that they used to offer completely free..
On September 02 2010 01:41 Nilaus wrote: Anyone else noticed the amount of threads being closed today dealing with restreaming of this event?
I don't like the way TL is moving, by being the lapdogs of greedy organisations such as GOMTV. It seems quite ambigous to provide VODs and restreams of BW, but stomp down on any mentioning of the same measure for SC2.
We close restreams for every organization that requests it, provided they own the rights to their broadcasts. We did it for IEM, MLG, and we'll do it for GOM if they request it. We allow restreams of BW because we haven't been told by OGN or MBC to take them down. Additionally, the BW streams have a free stream, it's not paid premium.
So does that mean TL.NET will not allow any stream/vod of all the major sc2 events from now on?!?!
Hasn't that been the case for awhile? A single link to MLG / ESL's stream with all restreams shut down?
This is sad news man, I first came TL because of the VODs. Then I came because of the streams. Sad sad sad...
Why is that sad? Just watch on the official stream or request that they allow restreams.
Is TL going to request restream?
I can't infer what you are asking here so I will say no.
I think he's asking if TL is going to (magically?) get permission to do a free restream....in which case the answer is still no.
If my iphone didn't drop and the water and I didn't have to buy parts to replace it then maybe I would pay it but I am a broke college student where every dollar counts and I will find some other way to watch it if I can.
This entire pricing model is absolutely disgusting.
How in the hell do they plan on growing the audience for this game when mildly curious outsiders have to pay 50 dollars to watch a handful of games (coincidentally, some of the most important games, similar to the playoffs/world cup).
This is moronic and greedy, similar to everything else blizzard has breathed on in the last three years.
On September 02 2010 05:50 ckw wrote: This is bullcrap you got to build the e-sport scene before you start asking for frikin' pro fighting fees like pay per view broski.
Don't want to flame you or anything but honestly, even if the E-Sport scene built up to be something popular, people would still complain about being charged because they were used to something that was free and accessible for a certain time period. Just something I'd throw out there to think about.
I always say I don't begrudge these guy a right to make a buck. I love Starcraft and want to see it do well. I'd like to see it keep growing as the worlds largest Esport. So I have no problem with them charging money for the stream. Sure I prefer if they make there money threw advertisements, but I guess GOM can't for whatever reason.
So the real question is the steam worth 50$ a month to me? As big of a Starcraft fan as I am I'd have to say no. I can watch MLG, IEM, and likely WCG one day for free and get my starcraft fix that way. Sure it sucks that I won't be seeing the worlds largest starcraft tournment, but its just not worth 300$ a year to see it when i have options. If it was closer to maybe 10$ a month I think i be much more willing.
On September 02 2010 05:50 ckw wrote: There will be other tournaments to watch anyway. I wouldn't pay a dime, no f'in way man, this is pathetic and they did this with all their other series but the VODS were free in their other season. This is bullcrap you got to build the e-sport scene before you start asking for frikin' pro fighting fees like pay per view broski.
I sort of feel the same way but this is THE tournament and league. It's like all the other ones are just side shows compared to GSL. That's why I feel it's such bull. I want to a part of a big connected community, and its a shame that they're doing it!
What I would like to see is why they're charging so much. If the GomTV people were like, "We need to charge this much this season in order to be financially stable. Next season you will see a price drop."(or something)
I dunno, I just think the the big WHY needs to be answered.
To me, I think the reason is they need to show good profits their first season, so larger sponsors get on board. If their reason is for the greater good of sc2, I'll totally be on board. But we will probably never know.
On September 02 2010 05:50 ckw wrote: There will be other tournaments to watch anyway. I wouldn't pay a dime, no f'in way man, this is pathetic and they did this with all their other series but the VODS were free in their other season. This is bullcrap you got to build the e-sport scene before you start asking for frikin' pro fighting fees like pay per view broski.
I sort of feel the same way but this is THE tournament and league. It's like all the other ones are just side shows compared to GSL. That's why I feel it's such bull. I want to a part of a big connected community, and its a shame that they're doing it!
While this might be true, 80% of the players in the GSL, I've never even heard of. Sure they might all be extremely good, but as we saw from the qualifiers, some people got through with an extremely easy bracket (e.g. even Torch qualified) while others had a much harder time. There's no guarantee that these matches will be more exciting than say IEM, which I knew at least 95% of the players there and had a free stream. Furthermore, there's absolutely no way I'll pay for a stream when the Korean streams and VODs are offered for free.
There are too many good tournaments with free VODs and released replays. I already have more SC2 than I can possibly consume. Why would I pay for more?
On September 02 2010 06:30 fantomex wrote: There are too many good tournaments with free VODs and released replays. I already have more SC2 than I can possibly consume. Why would I pay for more?
Because the GSL has the most money invested into it at this point and has the most outgoing income. They're setting up for a huge BW-esque scene and if you don't pay then they can't continue to do more of these sorts of tournaments.. Which for competitive scene and spectators isn't good.
On the other hand the prices are a LITTLE overpriced however I'm still willing to pay. Perhaps someone will make an event out of the spectating as not everyone is willing to pay?
So do I understand correctly that the Korean stream will be broadcasted for free and we will have restreamers? B/C as much as I would love to listen to english commentating during the event, there is no way I will watch for that price. If the Korean stream is available I guess I know what I'll be watching...
I find it rather mind boggling they can not find an eu/american sponsor willing to cover their stream cost. From all tournaments we seen so far it seems sponsoring SC2 has given many more views then expected no ?
Do I think this is a great idea? Nope. I can't believe that it is 2010 and companies believe they can control the internet. What wants to be seen will be seen, and fifty bucks is stupid because there are 100 livestreams and multiple other tournaments going on for free.
But...
I am not surprised by the fee. SC2 is a niche, and like other niche events coverage is expensive. Ever try to watch professional squash? I had to buy super expensive DVDs. Look, football is free on TV because so many people watch it that high priced ads can cover the profit. When low numbers of people watch, you often have to pay more for specialty stuff.
Anyway, I would rather listen to the Korean than Tasteless and Artosis anyway.
On September 02 2010 06:48 viraltouch wrote: so you CAN watch the korean stream for free on on game net? that would be like charging extra on cable tv for spanish audio... makes no sense
But I don't think you'll be able to get vod's. [Obviously someone will just save them and upload to youtube but rest assured those will be deleted soon after.]
On September 02 2010 06:51 JinDesu wrote: Someone should link this thread to their forums or something, so they can see how much money they are losing out.
The problem is, they'll see 45 people who are going to pay for the stream and think "wow, that's $900 we just made!"
All they're doing is making their tournament less popular than it otherwise could have been in countries outside korea. I mean I had doubts that I would even watch many of the games anyway considering how many tournaments are going on, but now I doubt I'll watch anything other than the finals, after they've been pirated/rereleased for torrents.
On September 02 2010 06:30 fantomex wrote: There are too many good tournaments with free VODs and released replays. I already have more SC2 than I can possibly consume. Why would I pay for more?
Because the GSL has the most money invested into it at this point and has the most outgoing income. They're setting up for a huge BW-esque scene and if you don't pay then they can't continue to do more of these sorts of tournaments.. Which for competitive scene and spectators isn't good.
On the other hand the prices are a LITTLE overpriced however I'm still willing to pay. Perhaps someone will make an event out of the spectating as not everyone is willing to pay?
ignorance ftw
they can charge no money and still be able to put on events like this. they are just milking everyone for $$
I was seriously considering buying the $20 live stream... but then I realized I'd still have to stay up until 5am EVERY night or else never be able to see the matches. And $30 for videos of matches that will probably just get spoiled the next day is a waste of money if I never have the chance to see them live.
As it is now, I might pay the $3 one-day fee for the finals and restream it on my 50-user max livestream channel. That's about all they'll get out of me.
The best way to think about spelling definitely is de-FINITE-ly, as in "I have a finite amount of money in my wallet therefore I won't be paying for the GSL stream"
On September 02 2010 06:51 JinDesu wrote: Someone should link this thread to their forums or something, so they can see how much money they are losing out.
The problem is, they'll see 45 people who are going to pay for the stream and think "wow, that's $900 we just made!"
All they're doing is making their tournament less popular than it otherwise could have been in countries outside korea. I mean I had doubts that I would even watch many of the games anyway considering how many tournaments are going on, but now I doubt I'll watch anything other than the finals, after they've been pirated/rereleased for torrents.
i'm pretty sure only making $900 would be considered a massive failure by GOM
On September 02 2010 06:49 Manifesto7 wrote: Do I think this is a great idea? Nope. I can't believe that it is 2010 and companies believe they can control the internet. What wants to be seen will be seen, and fifty bucks is stupid because there are 100 livestreams and multiple other tournaments going on for free.
But...
I am not surprised by the fee. SC2 is a niche, and like other niche events coverage is expensive. Ever try to watch professional squash? I had to buy super expensive DVDs. Look, football is free on TV because so many people watch it that high priced ads can cover the profit. When low numbers of people watch, you often have to pay more for specialty stuff.
Anyway, I would rather listen to the Korean than Tasteless and Artosis anyway.
what you say is true. but there are 3 major problems with it:
1. its not a niche in the esports world. this can easily draw in more viewers then any other event right now in the world of gaming. look at hdhs success. this is way bigger and we're not in beta anymore. also it wouldnt surprise me if sc2 has way more interested followers then squash
2. its free for koreans. the coverage is already there. all "extra cost" is tastosis and bandwith. tastosis isnt much and could easily be covered by a HQ upgrade which some will get. same applies for bandwith + im sure Tlpeople would help with that.
3. the competition is doing it for free/very low prices for HQ. look at esl. you can watch stuff there like 4 days a week. and thats only sc2. yeah the pricepool is huge here. but that doesnt have anything to do with the cost of nonkorean coverage.
it just feels like a ripoff and will 100% fail which is very sad since this couldve been really really fkkin huge.
On September 02 2010 07:05 Rashia wrote: I hope somone makes a .torrent of the shows and loads em up on some site.. Heck I'd pay a small fee to the guy that would do that.
On September 02 2010 06:51 JinDesu wrote: Someone should link this thread to their forums or something, so they can see how much money they are losing out.
The problem is, they'll see 45 people who are going to pay for the stream and think "wow, that's $900 we just made!"
All they're doing is making their tournament less popular than it otherwise could have been in countries outside korea. I mean I had doubts that I would even watch many of the games anyway considering how many tournaments are going on, but now I doubt I'll watch anything other than the finals, after they've been pirated/rereleased for torrents.
i'm pretty sure only making $900 would be considered a massive failure by GOM
But the foreigner scene isn't even the target audience, they're banking primarily on revenues from advertisements on OGN. As far as they're concerned we're all rich westerners they can just make a buck off of in exchange for hiring 2 casters.
Frankly who's going to honestly watch every single match played over the course of this next month? That's the only way this could be even remotely worthwhile, and since there's an abundance of other tournaments like IEM and MLG that provide english commentary of professional games for FREE, I think I'll just stick with those and watch the highlight matches from GSL for free from the OGN stream. English casting already feels like a luxury for BW fans, I can handle watching a couple more games without sound if it saves me $30
On September 02 2010 06:51 JinDesu wrote: Someone should link this thread to their forums or something, so they can see how much money they are losing out.
The problem is, they'll see 45 people who are going to pay for the stream and think "wow, that's $900 we just made!"
All they're doing is making their tournament less popular than it otherwise could have been in countries outside korea. I mean I had doubts that I would even watch many of the games anyway considering how many tournaments are going on, but now I doubt I'll watch anything other than the finals, after they've been pirated/rereleased for torrents.
i'm pretty sure only making $900 would be considered a massive failure by GOM
But the foreigner scene isn't even the target audience, they're banking primarily on revenues from advertisements on OGN. As far as they're concerned we're all rich westerners they can just make a buck off of in exchange for hiring 2 casters.
Frankly who's going to honestly watch every single match played over the course of this next month? That's the only way this could be even remotely worthwhile, and since there's an abundance of other tournaments like IEM and MLG that provide english commentary of professional games for FREE, I think I'll just stick with those and watch the highlight matches from GSL for free from the OGN stream. English casting already feels like a luxury for BW fans, I can handle watching a couple more games without sound if it saves me $30
?? I'm assuming that all the revenue from ads (when GSL is shown on OGN) go to OGN, not GOM. In fact, I would think GOM's only revenue comes from the ads shown on their GOMTV player and "premium" services. Correct me if I'm wrong though...
imo let us watch the first ever huge SC2 tourney, let us enjoy it for free. That way when it's time to pay for the next one we know what to expect and what we are getting. We have to want what you're selling before we pay for it.
On September 02 2010 06:51 JinDesu wrote: Someone should link this thread to their forums or something, so they can see how much money they are losing out.
The problem is, they'll see 45 people who are going to pay for the stream and think "wow, that's $900 we just made!"
All they're doing is making their tournament less popular than it otherwise could have been in countries outside korea. I mean I had doubts that I would even watch many of the games anyway considering how many tournaments are going on, but now I doubt I'll watch anything other than the finals, after they've been pirated/rereleased for torrents.
i'm pretty sure only making $900 would be considered a massive failure by GOM
But the foreigner scene isn't even the target audience, they're banking primarily on revenues from advertisements on OGN. As far as they're concerned we're all rich westerners they can just make a buck off of in exchange for hiring 2 casters.
Frankly who's going to honestly watch every single match played over the course of this next month? That's the only way this could be even remotely worthwhile, and since there's an abundance of other tournaments like IEM and MLG that provide english commentary of professional games for FREE, I think I'll just stick with those and watch the highlight matches from GSL for free from the OGN stream. English casting already feels like a luxury for BW fans, I can handle watching a couple more games without sound if it saves me $30
?? I'm assuming that all the revenue from ads (when GSL is shown on OGN) go to OGN, not GOM. In fact, I would think GOM's only revenue comes from the ads shown on their GOMTV player and "premium" services. Correct me if I'm wrong though...
are you saying that the NFL doesnt get any of the TV money from the Super Bowl? only the tv station who broadcasts it since they are the one's selling commercial time? i dont KNOW that that information would be incorrect, but i do not believe that is correct.
Idk if OGN has to buy the broadcasting rights or if it is the other way tho i guess..
On September 02 2010 06:51 JinDesu wrote: Someone should link this thread to their forums or something, so they can see how much money they are losing out.
The problem is, they'll see 45 people who are going to pay for the stream and think "wow, that's $900 we just made!"
All they're doing is making their tournament less popular than it otherwise could have been in countries outside korea. I mean I had doubts that I would even watch many of the games anyway considering how many tournaments are going on, but now I doubt I'll watch anything other than the finals, after they've been pirated/rereleased for torrents.
i'm pretty sure only making $900 would be considered a massive failure by GOM
But the foreigner scene isn't even the target audience, they're banking primarily on revenues from advertisements on OGN. As far as they're concerned we're all rich westerners they can just make a buck off of in exchange for hiring 2 casters.
Frankly who's going to honestly watch every single match played over the course of this next month? That's the only way this could be even remotely worthwhile, and since there's an abundance of other tournaments like IEM and MLG that provide english commentary of professional games for FREE, I think I'll just stick with those and watch the highlight matches from GSL for free from the OGN stream. English casting already feels like a luxury for BW fans, I can handle watching a couple more games without sound if it saves me $30
?? I'm assuming that all the revenue from ads (when GSL is shown on OGN) go to OGN, not GOM. In fact, I would think GOM's only revenue comes from the ads shown on their GOMTV player and "premium" services. Correct me if I'm wrong though...
Considering OGN had to sign an agreement with GOM to even broadcast any games at all, I doubt GOM would have signed all of the profits away. In fact I bet OGN is getting the short end of the stick in that regard.
At the end of the day, we've never been charged to view tournament games, in the history of e-sports, and I refuse to kneel over and let them reach into my pockets just because they have a fancy new game with fancy new contracts. Especially considering that there are so, so many other tournaments going on for sc2 that will be completely free to watch.
It's not even like we're watching brood war where the top players appear to be gods playing on an inhuman level, they're just some dudes who are really, really good at being efficient/not making mistakes/strategy, playing against each other. Just like every other large tournament there has been or will be for this game.
I'd be more inclined to pay a small fee (less than $3) to watch the OSL finals to be honest, even without english commentating. But the amount they're charging is just absurd. It rubs me the wrong way, like how do they view the fans? Wallets with legs?
If GOM is trying to expand their viewer base and the SC2 scene, they are going about it the wrong way. Forcing people to pay for a stream, instead of giving a free low quality and an optional paid high quality stream will hurt them in the end. With their current plan only the hardcore crowd will watch the American coverage, reducing the viewer base to a mere fraction of a free service would get. With only the hardcore market, it will be harder to find sponsors and the sponsors they do find will be unwilling to pay as much money. What GOM should do is start off allowing it free, making sponsors and viewers happy. Then, if they find that they need more revenue in the future they can eventually charge a small fee, or raise high quality stream prices a bit, or both. This will alienate a much smaller portion of the potential fanbase and will likely be a better long-term business strategy.
On September 02 2010 07:05 Rashia wrote: I hope somone makes a .torrent of the shows and loads em up on some site.. Heck I'd pay a small fee to the guy that would do that.
Bad idea. I'm sure there's a lot of guys that would do it for free anyway lol.
Everyone here post your points and opinions on this matter on gomtv.net, signup and do so. This is the only way we'll have our voices heard so everyone go there and post well constructed responses.
On September 02 2010 08:31 RifleCow wrote: Everyone here post your points and opinions on this matter on gomtv.net, signup and do so. This is the only way we'll have our voices heard so everyone go there and post well constructed responses.
Why would game points matter in spectating SC2?
Also I am very sad about this I think this is a bad move and will Koreans get to watch it on the the tv?
yah i'm not paying to watch a game that's only 1/3 complete with relatively inferior talent when i can watch for free a perfected game with the best players in the world. Which is probably why Blizzard wants to kill BW
On September 02 2010 08:31 RifleCow wrote: Everyone here post your points and opinions on this matter on gomtv.net, signup and do so. This is the only way we'll have our voices heard so everyone go there and post well constructed responses.
Why would game points matter in spectating SC2?
Also I am very sad about this I think this is a bad move and will Koreans get to watch it on the the tv?
he meant your speaking points. Like your opinions, not ur bnet points. =). and yes they will they are getting it through a tv station's broadcast.
I'd gladly support GOM but the price they're asking is just too much. There's no way I could catch the live stream at the time they're playing it, I'm interested in the VODs but it's simply too much money for me to justify the expense.
You know when GomTV asked for people to pay for the stream back in the brood war days, at least it was a tournament full of pros.
The majority of the players in the Ro of 64 are korean amateurs.... 50 dollars for full access to a tournament of mostly amateurs and during the wee hours of the morning for most foreigners, is not just steep, it is down right ridiculous and insulting
If it was between $5 and $10 for stream + vods per month, people would actually consider buying a ticket.. like seriously, they would expand their client base by a huge amount.
Their price models just don't make any sense, gretech needs to learn to economics herp.
I don't care, we should organize and go to nearest Korean embassy and complain in the banner of prejudice. Branding "racism" as a sword always get something done
They don't seem to understand that they're marketing mostly to broke college students ages 20-24. This demographic does not have much money to spend! It's a miracle most of us could afford SC2!
I understand the need for bandwidth; however, with their history of laggy streams, I don't see how they expect anyone to pay $20 to watch a stream at 4am.
On September 02 2010 10:28 Hesmyrr wrote: I don't care, we should organize and go to nearest Korean embassy and complain in the banner of prejudice. Branding "racism" as a sword always get something done
we should call the canadian embassy ;D
i voted yes, ill pay 20 for the fucking vods and watch them all. Because i cba to even remotely consider live. Guess why? BECAUSE I HAVE A LIFE ;D
This is a huge mistake. They will do this for season 1, and 98% of people will watch illegal, restreams or stolen VoDs/Replays. Then they will realize they made a mistake and season 2 will be considerably cheaper... But honestly it is too late, because by that point, everyone will have figured out about restreaming and VoD pirating, so they will have no need to buy the subscription... the convenience will be gone.
I was more than willing to purchase a premium account for GomTV to watch the GSL, because it would be simple, convenient and obvious. But now I won't, because the price is not worth the convenience... so I am going to find a solid restreamer, watch Korean version or get hold of the VoDs some other way, which will be more complicated and frustrating, but once I have figured out how to do that by the end of the month, I will have no reason to go to GomTV even if they lower the price.
This sounds like one of two things to me. Either Xenophobia or simple ignorance...
The only reasoning I can see behind such a gigantic price is... well that they simply do not want us to watch it. They can pretend they do by providing an English client and giving us Tastosis to commentate, that way their sponsors (Western companies like Intel) and Blizzard will be happy that they are providing the service. This price will just turn away foreigners, they will make minimal profits from it, that way when they do their profit projections, they can see that they are losing money or gaining nothing by providing their service to the west, and therefore have an excuse to stop all english streaming entirely. It seems completely unreasonable, but possible. KESPA is related to GOM in some way or another, so I can honestly see a potential hand in this from them... KESPA stands to profit if SC2 fails in either Korea or the West.
The other reason I can see for this price is downright stupidity and ignorance. They either think that 50$ is a perfect price for us, overfed, consumerist, rich Americans, or they have absolutely no knowledge of how economics work. I can't imagine the latter is necessarily the case, because I have a hard time believing that a big company could have gotten as far as it did without the knowledge of how a basic economic model... I mean do they really honestly believe that charging more money means more profits? Seriously? I suppose they could misunderstand their demographic... The majority of SC2 players are college students and young people with very little spare income (I don't get my loan till the 7th anyway). We can't afford to pay such unreasonable amounts for the game. Also, we are in a different timezone from those Koreans (REALLY!?)... I personally need to wake up at 3am to see the games live. Most people will miss the majority of the streams, so it seems ridiculous to pay a subscription for something we will rarely use. Maybe they don't understand that?
To anyone who thinks Blizzard is responsible... You have no backing for believing that. None whatsoever. Blizzard has never been mentioned, nor do they have anything to gain for charging such a ridiculous amount for the world to see e-sports. If you can tell me what they have to gain, I will give you a cookie, but you have nothing... Blizzard is an English, western company. They have something to gain ($$$) from seeing e-sports expand to the west. Making it so 98% of the hardcore (much less the casual) audience cannot afford to see the games does not benefit them in any way shape or form. They will not make money off of this, because no one will buy it. They will not kill brood war from this, because it would just squelch SC2, which would not benefit them. Brood war will just live longer, but Blizz will not earn profits from that. So how will Blizz earn money from this? What exactly makes you think that this is the work of Blizzard/Satan/Activision? This is GOMTV being Ignorant, Stupid, Xenophobic or some retarded mix of all 3 (which is what I think it is).
On September 02 2010 11:23 Zanez.smarty wrote: This is a huge mistake. They will do this for season 1, and 98% of people will watch illegal, restreams or stolen VoDs/Replays. Then they will realize they made a mistake and season 2 will be considerably cheaper... But honestly it is too late, because by that point, everyone will have figured out about restreaming and VoD pirating, so they will have no need to buy the subscription... the convenience will be gone.
I was more than willing to purchase a premium account for GomTV to watch the GSL, because it would be simple, convenient and obvious. But now I won't, because the price is not worth the convenience... so I am going to find a solid restreamer, watch Korean version or get hold of the VoDs some other way, which will be more complicated and frustrating, but once I have figured out how to do that by the end of the month, I will have no reason to go to GomTV even if they lower the price.
This sounds like one of two things to me. Either Xenophobia or simple ignorance...
The only reasoning I can see behind such a gigantic price is... well that they simply do not want us to watch it. They can pretend they do by providing an English client and giving us Tastosis to commentate, that way their sponsors (Western companies like Intel) and Blizzard will be happy that they are providing the service. This price will just turn away foreigners, they will make minimal profits from it, that way when they do their profit projections, they can see that they are losing money or gaining nothing by providing their service to the west, and therefore have an excuse to stop all english streaming entirely. It seems completely unreasonable, but possible. KESPA is related to GOM in some way or another, so I can honestly see a potential hand in this from them... KESPA stands to profit if SC2 fails in either Korea or the West.
The other reason I can see for this price is downright stupidity and ignorance. They either think that 50$ is a perfect price for us, overfed, consumerist, rich Americans, or they have absolutely no knowledge of how economics work. I can't imagine the latter is necessarily the case, because I have a hard time believing that a big company could have gotten as far as it did without the knowledge of how a basic economic model... I mean do they really honestly believe that charging more money means more profits? Seriously? I suppose they could misunderstand their demographic... The majority of SC2 players are college students and young people with very little spare income (I don't get my loan till the 7th anyway). We can't afford to pay such unreasonable amounts for the game. Also, we are in a different timezone from those Koreans (REALLY!?)... I personally need to wake up at 3am to see the games live. Most people will miss the majority of the streams, so it seems ridiculous to pay a subscription for something we will rarely use. Maybe they don't understand that?
To anyone who thinks Blizzard is responsible... You have no backing for believing that. None whatsoever. Blizzard has never been mentioned, nor do they have anything to gain for charging such a ridiculous amount for the world to see e-sports. If you can tell me what they have to gain, I will give you a cookie, but you have nothing... Blizzard is an English, western company. They have something to gain ($$$) from seeing e-sports expand to the west. Making it so 98% of the hardcore (much less the casual) audience cannot afford to see the games does not benefit them in any way shape or form. They will not make money off of this, because no one will buy it. They will not kill brood war from this, because it would just squelch SC2, which would not benefit them. Brood war will just live longer, but Blizz will not earn profits from that. So how will Blizz earn money from this? What exactly makes you think that this is the work of Blizzard/Satan/Activision? This is GOMTV being Ignorant, Stupid, Xenophobic or some retarded mix of all 3 (which is what I think it is).
You have no backing or evidence for your assertions either. Given the spat between KeSPA and Gretech, I don't think KeSPA influences anything.
On the otherhand, have you ever wondered why Blizz sold rights to SC2 for $1 and now this comes along? I think you are the one who is zenophobic, since you think Gretech/Gom are stupid asking for such ridiculous prices. Oh those asians, how dumb. Maybe Gretech/Gom did the math taking into account Blizzard's cut, and found this is the price that makes profits for them.
junkacc, are you aware that they did this during gom season 3 too? Everyone was similarly upset about the pricing then, too. IIRC it was pretty much the same, except that now they have completely taken away the free options.
Seems like someone looked at the results of gom season 3 and said 'people are just watching the free versions, so let's get rid of the free versions!'... and knocked up the price some to boot. It's probably going to be the same this time around - low quality stream, and very low quality stream if you can't handle the low quality stream. and most people in the US can't even stream the very low quality stream reliably...
There were also issues with the VODS too, I think. Audio out of sync, again not so good quality, probably other things..
I graduated and now have plenty of disposable income.. but I do not want to encourage this.
On September 02 2010 12:42 errol1001 wrote: junkacc, are you aware that they did this during gom season 3 too? Everyone was similarly upset about the pricing then, too. IIRC it was pretty much the same, except that now they have completely taken away the free options.
Seems like someone looked at the results of gom season 3 and said 'people are just watching the free versions, so let's get rid of the free versions!'... and knocked up the price some to boot. It's probably going to be the same this time around - low quality stream, and very low quality stream if you can't handle the low quality stream. and most people in the US can't even stream the very low quality stream reliably...
There were also issues with the VODS too, I think. Audio out of sync, again not so good quality, probably other things..
I graduated and now have plenty of disposable income.. but I do not want to encourage this.
Note: I'm not defending GOM or their prices, but that's what you get when you make a pact with the devil.
Now GOM must pay out the expenses of setting up the tournament, broadcasting, infrastructure, getting sponsors, setting up teams... etc. And on top of that pay a royalty to Blizzard on every penny they make, at who knows what rates. They're not even a cable broadcaster like MBCgames (MSL) or Ongamenet (OSL), they are an internet re-broadcaster who hardly makes any content themselves. Do they even have the capacity or do they need to spend extra for that? And now they want to kill KeSPA and proleague so they won't have competition. LOL, I say fuck them. They made the deal with Blizzard, they have to live with it. Same goes for all of you who blindly support Blizzard.
On September 02 2010 11:23 Zanez.smarty wrote: This is a huge mistake. They will do this for season 1, and 98% of people will watch illegal, restreams or stolen VoDs/Replays. Then they will realize they made a mistake and season 2 will be considerably cheaper... But honestly it is too late, because by that point, everyone will have figured out about restreaming and VoD pirating, so they will have no need to buy the subscription... the convenience will be gone.
I was more than willing to purchase a premium account for GomTV to watch the GSL, because it would be simple, convenient and obvious. But now I won't, because the price is not worth the convenience... so I am going to find a solid restreamer, watch Korean version or get hold of the VoDs some other way, which will be more complicated and frustrating, but once I have figured out how to do that by the end of the month, I will have no reason to go to GomTV even if they lower the price.
This sounds like one of two things to me. Either Xenophobia or simple ignorance...
The only reasoning I can see behind such a gigantic price is... well that they simply do not want us to watch it. They can pretend they do by providing an English client and giving us Tastosis to commentate, that way their sponsors (Western companies like Intel) and Blizzard will be happy that they are providing the service. This price will just turn away foreigners, they will make minimal profits from it, that way when they do their profit projections, they can see that they are losing money or gaining nothing by providing their service to the west, and therefore have an excuse to stop all english streaming entirely. It seems completely unreasonable, but possible. KESPA is related to GOM in some way or another, so I can honestly see a potential hand in this from them... KESPA stands to profit if SC2 fails in either Korea or the West.
The other reason I can see for this price is downright stupidity and ignorance. They either think that 50$ is a perfect price for us, overfed, consumerist, rich Americans, or they have absolutely no knowledge of how economics work. I can't imagine the latter is necessarily the case, because I have a hard time believing that a big company could have gotten as far as it did without the knowledge of how a basic economic model... I mean do they really honestly believe that charging more money means more profits? Seriously? I suppose they could misunderstand their demographic... The majority of SC2 players are college students and young people with very little spare income (I don't get my loan till the 7th anyway). We can't afford to pay such unreasonable amounts for the game. Also, we are in a different timezone from those Koreans (REALLY!?)... I personally need to wake up at 3am to see the games live. Most people will miss the majority of the streams, so it seems ridiculous to pay a subscription for something we will rarely use. Maybe they don't understand that?
To anyone who thinks Blizzard is responsible... You have no backing for believing that. None whatsoever. Blizzard has never been mentioned, nor do they have anything to gain for charging such a ridiculous amount for the world to see e-sports. If you can tell me what they have to gain, I will give you a cookie, but you have nothing... Blizzard is an English, western company. They have something to gain ($$$) from seeing e-sports expand to the west. Making it so 98% of the hardcore (much less the casual) audience cannot afford to see the games does not benefit them in any way shape or form. They will not make money off of this, because no one will buy it. They will not kill brood war from this, because it would just squelch SC2, which would not benefit them. Brood war will just live longer, but Blizz will not earn profits from that. So how will Blizz earn money from this? What exactly makes you think that this is the work of Blizzard/Satan/Activision? This is GOMTV being Ignorant, Stupid, Xenophobic or some retarded mix of all 3 (which is what I think it is).
You have no backing or evidence for your assertions either. Given the spat between KeSPA and Gretech, I don't think KeSPA influences anything.
On the otherhand, have you ever wondered why Blizz sold rights to SC2 for $1 and now this comes along? I think you are the one who is zenophobic, since you think Gretech/Gom are stupid asking for such ridiculous prices. Oh those asians, how dumb. Maybe Gretech/Gom did the math taking into account Blizzard's cut, and found this is the price that makes profits for them.
I will ignore you accusing me as a racist considering you lack any reasoning for it... You seem to have a good idea what Blizzard's cut is on this. So care to enlighten us? I see KESPA having far more to gain than Blizzard for charging such a ridiculous amount. Not that it is likely either of them are responsible. We are all looking for people to point fingers at, and in all honesty until we have more information it seems like the only person/group we can blame is GOM... Blizz has nothing to gain from these prices, KESPA has been fighting with these people for ages... there has always been issues with getting decent streams for eSports outside of Korea for reasons unknown. So I have given my possible explanations for such a ridiculous price. It seems your theory is that Blizzard is charging them something unholy to stream it to us in the west, but with some kind of convoluted financing method that allows them to stream Korean versions in Korea for free... This kind of thought seems to be coupled with the idea that Blizzard has some paralytic fear of profits, considering the poll... Trust me, Blizzard knows how to make a profit... in fact, I believe they are very very good at it... and anyone with any remote understanding of economics understands that high prices =/= high profits. Trust me, both Blizzard and GOM understand the concept of how to make money. They both know that if you put the price this high you will lose a considerable chunk of money. They have gigantic financial divisions who's SOLE PURPOSE is to find out how to maximize profits, and no one on earth would make a price plan like this in order to maximize profits... There is some other reason behind this... If Blizzard is charging GOM a HUGE amount of money for the streaming rights (which would be stupid because...) then GOM would be stupid to charge this amount of money to view the stream (because this price plan is no in place to maximize income). This destroys eSports, costing Blizzard a ton of money, and vaporizing GOM outside of Korea. Yeah that sounds like a good idea.
Mark my words, something funny is going on behind the scenes... This is not about greed, because very little money will be flowing... this is about something else.
On September 02 2010 11:23 Zanez.smarty wrote: This is a huge mistake. They will do this for season 1, and 98% of people will watch illegal, restreams or stolen VoDs/Replays. Then they will realize they made a mistake and season 2 will be considerably cheaper... But honestly it is too late, because by that point, everyone will have figured out about restreaming and VoD pirating, so they will have no need to buy the subscription... the convenience will be gone.
I was more than willing to purchase a premium account for GomTV to watch the GSL, because it would be simple, convenient and obvious. But now I won't, because the price is not worth the convenience... so I am going to find a solid restreamer, watch Korean version or get hold of the VoDs some other way, which will be more complicated and frustrating, but once I have figured out how to do that by the end of the month, I will have no reason to go to GomTV even if they lower the price.
This sounds like one of two things to me. Either Xenophobia or simple ignorance...
The only reasoning I can see behind such a gigantic price is... well that they simply do not want us to watch it. They can pretend they do by providing an English client and giving us Tastosis to commentate, that way their sponsors (Western companies like Intel) and Blizzard will be happy that they are providing the service. This price will just turn away foreigners, they will make minimal profits from it, that way when they do their profit projections, they can see that they are losing money or gaining nothing by providing their service to the west, and therefore have an excuse to stop all english streaming entirely. It seems completely unreasonable, but possible. KESPA is related to GOM in some way or another, so I can honestly see a potential hand in this from them... KESPA stands to profit if SC2 fails in either Korea or the West.
The other reason I can see for this price is downright stupidity and ignorance. They either think that 50$ is a perfect price for us, overfed, consumerist, rich Americans, or they have absolutely no knowledge of how economics work. I can't imagine the latter is necessarily the case, because I have a hard time believing that a big company could have gotten as far as it did without the knowledge of how a basic economic model... I mean do they really honestly believe that charging more money means more profits? Seriously? I suppose they could misunderstand their demographic... The majority of SC2 players are college students and young people with very little spare income (I don't get my loan till the 7th anyway). We can't afford to pay such unreasonable amounts for the game. Also, we are in a different timezone from those Koreans (REALLY!?)... I personally need to wake up at 3am to see the games live. Most people will miss the majority of the streams, so it seems ridiculous to pay a subscription for something we will rarely use. Maybe they don't understand that?
To anyone who thinks Blizzard is responsible... You have no backing for believing that. None whatsoever. Blizzard has never been mentioned, nor do they have anything to gain for charging such a ridiculous amount for the world to see e-sports. If you can tell me what they have to gain, I will give you a cookie, but you have nothing... Blizzard is an English, western company. They have something to gain ($$$) from seeing e-sports expand to the west. Making it so 98% of the hardcore (much less the casual) audience cannot afford to see the games does not benefit them in any way shape or form. They will not make money off of this, because no one will buy it. They will not kill brood war from this, because it would just squelch SC2, which would not benefit them. Brood war will just live longer, but Blizz will not earn profits from that. So how will Blizz earn money from this? What exactly makes you think that this is the work of Blizzard/Satan/Activision? This is GOMTV being Ignorant, Stupid, Xenophobic or some retarded mix of all 3 (which is what I think it is).
You have no backing or evidence for your assertions either. Given the spat between KeSPA and Gretech, I don't think KeSPA influences anything.
On the otherhand, have you ever wondered why Blizz sold rights to SC2 for $1 and now this comes along? I think you are the one who is zenophobic, since you think Gretech/Gom are stupid asking for such ridiculous prices. Oh those asians, how dumb. Maybe Gretech/Gom did the math taking into account Blizzard's cut, and found this is the price that makes profits for them.
I will ignore you accusing me as a racist considering you lack any reasoning for it... You seem to have a good idea what Blizzard's cut is on this. So care to enlighten us? I see KESPA having far more to gain than Blizzard for charging such a ridiculous amount. Not that it is likely either of them are responsible. We are all looking for people to point fingers at, and in all honesty until we have more information it seems like the only person/group we can blame is GOM... Blizz has nothing to gain from these prices, KESPA has been fighting with these people for ages... there has always been issues with getting decent streams for eSports outside of Korea for reasons unknown. So I have given my possible explanations for such a ridiculous price. It seems your theory is that Blizzard is charging them something unholy to stream it to us in the west, but with some kind of convoluted financing method that allows them to stream Korean versions in Korea for free... This kind of thought seems to be coupled with the idea that Blizzard has some paralytic fear of profits, considering the poll... Trust me, Blizzard knows how to make a profit... in fact, I believe they are very very good at it... and anyone with any remote understanding of economics understands that high prices =/= high profits. Trust me, both Blizzard and GOM understand the concept of how to make money. They both know that if you put the price this high you will lose a considerable chunk of money. They have gigantic financial divisions who's SOLE PURPOSE is to find out how to maximize profits, and no one on earth would make a price plan like this in order to maximize profits... There is some other reason behind this... If Blizzard is charging GOM a HUGE amount of money for the streaming rights (which would be stupid because...) then GOM would be stupid to charge this amount of money to view the stream (because this price plan is no in place to maximize income). This destroys eSports, costing Blizzard a ton of money, and vaporizing GOM outside of Korea. Yeah that sounds like a good idea.
Mark my words, something funny is going on behind the scenes... This is not about greed, because very little money will be flowing... this is about something else.
You are the one who brought racism into this in the first place. Care to elaborate why you think this is zenophobia? You say GOM is influenced by zenophobia and then go on to say GOM knows how to make money so it doesn't make sense... so then you blame KeSPA. See any contradiction in that? WTF is with people like you who have zero reasoning skills. How hard is it to understand KeSPA has NO INFLUENCE IN THIS WHATSOEVER CONTRACTUALLY OR BY AFFILIATION.
I think I'll stop right here. Your arguments speak for themselves on how misinformed you are. I will leave it up to other readers to gauge if your logic stems from racism/lack of understanding or not.
On September 02 2010 11:23 Zanez.smarty wrote: This is a huge mistake. They will do this for season 1, and 98% of people will watch illegal, restreams or stolen VoDs/Replays. Then they will realize they made a mistake and season 2 will be considerably cheaper... But honestly it is too late, because by that point, everyone will have figured out about restreaming and VoD pirating, so they will have no need to buy the subscription... the convenience will be gone.
I was more than willing to purchase a premium account for GomTV to watch the GSL, because it would be simple, convenient and obvious. But now I won't, because the price is not worth the convenience... so I am going to find a solid restreamer, watch Korean version or get hold of the VoDs some other way, which will be more complicated and frustrating, but once I have figured out how to do that by the end of the month, I will have no reason to go to GomTV even if they lower the price.
This sounds like one of two things to me. Either Xenophobia or simple ignorance...
The only reasoning I can see behind such a gigantic price is... well that they simply do not want us to watch it. They can pretend they do by providing an English client and giving us Tastosis to commentate, that way their sponsors (Western companies like Intel) and Blizzard will be happy that they are providing the service. This price will just turn away foreigners, they will make minimal profits from it, that way when they do their profit projections, they can see that they are losing money or gaining nothing by providing their service to the west, and therefore have an excuse to stop all english streaming entirely. It seems completely unreasonable, but possible. KESPA is related to GOM in some way or another, so I can honestly see a potential hand in this from them... KESPA stands to profit if SC2 fails in either Korea or the West.
The other reason I can see for this price is downright stupidity and ignorance. They either think that 50$ is a perfect price for us, overfed, consumerist, rich Americans, or they have absolutely no knowledge of how economics work. I can't imagine the latter is necessarily the case, because I have a hard time believing that a big company could have gotten as far as it did without the knowledge of how a basic economic model... I mean do they really honestly believe that charging more money means more profits? Seriously? I suppose they could misunderstand their demographic... The majority of SC2 players are college students and young people with very little spare income (I don't get my loan till the 7th anyway). We can't afford to pay such unreasonable amounts for the game. Also, we are in a different timezone from those Koreans (REALLY!?)... I personally need to wake up at 3am to see the games live. Most people will miss the majority of the streams, so it seems ridiculous to pay a subscription for something we will rarely use. Maybe they don't understand that?
To anyone who thinks Blizzard is responsible... You have no backing for believing that. None whatsoever. Blizzard has never been mentioned, nor do they have anything to gain for charging such a ridiculous amount for the world to see e-sports. If you can tell me what they have to gain, I will give you a cookie, but you have nothing... Blizzard is an English, western company. They have something to gain ($$$) from seeing e-sports expand to the west. Making it so 98% of the hardcore (much less the casual) audience cannot afford to see the games does not benefit them in any way shape or form. They will not make money off of this, because no one will buy it. They will not kill brood war from this, because it would just squelch SC2, which would not benefit them. Brood war will just live longer, but Blizz will not earn profits from that. So how will Blizz earn money from this? What exactly makes you think that this is the work of Blizzard/Satan/Activision? This is GOMTV being Ignorant, Stupid, Xenophobic or some retarded mix of all 3 (which is what I think it is).
You have no backing or evidence for your assertions either. Given the spat between KeSPA and Gretech, I don't think KeSPA influences anything.
On the otherhand, have you ever wondered why Blizz sold rights to SC2 for $1 and now this comes along? I think you are the one who is zenophobic, since you think Gretech/Gom are stupid asking for such ridiculous prices. Oh those asians, how dumb. Maybe Gretech/Gom did the math taking into account Blizzard's cut, and found this is the price that makes profits for them.
I will ignore you accusing me as a racist considering you lack any reasoning for it... You seem to have a good idea what Blizzard's cut is on this. So care to enlighten us? I see KESPA having far more to gain than Blizzard for charging such a ridiculous amount. Not that it is likely either of them are responsible. We are all looking for people to point fingers at, and in all honesty until we have more information it seems like the only person/group we can blame is GOM... Blizz has nothing to gain from these prices, KESPA has been fighting with these people for ages... there has always been issues with getting decent streams for eSports outside of Korea for reasons unknown. So I have given my possible explanations for such a ridiculous price. It seems your theory is that Blizzard is charging them something unholy to stream it to us in the west, but with some kind of convoluted financing method that allows them to stream Korean versions in Korea for free... This kind of thought seems to be coupled with the idea that Blizzard has some paralytic fear of profits, considering the poll... Trust me, Blizzard knows how to make a profit... in fact, I believe they are very very good at it... and anyone with any remote understanding of economics understands that high prices =/= high profits. Trust me, both Blizzard and GOM understand the concept of how to make money. They both know that if you put the price this high you will lose a considerable chunk of money. They have gigantic financial divisions who's SOLE PURPOSE is to find out how to maximize profits, and no one on earth would make a price plan like this in order to maximize profits... There is some other reason behind this... If Blizzard is charging GOM a HUGE amount of money for the streaming rights (which would be stupid because...) then GOM would be stupid to charge this amount of money to view the stream (because this price plan is no in place to maximize income). This destroys eSports, costing Blizzard a ton of money, and vaporizing GOM outside of Korea. Yeah that sounds like a good idea.
Mark my words, something funny is going on behind the scenes... This is not about greed, because very little money will be flowing... this is about something else.
I'm sorry, but this is BS (no offense). GOM already used to offer a paid subscription for higher quality stream and VODs for StarCraft TG Sambo 3, - a logical step in an absolutely standard practice in pay-per-view switch process:
1. Offer media content for free via another broadcaster (MBC) with commercials and all the rest of it. 2. As the audience grows over the course of several years, - offer a premium package (HQ stream, VODs, special event casting). 3. As a perspective audience is established, - switch to a 100% paid service with a number of different packages and options available.
All of this is absolutely standard and has been done by almost every single paid cable television provider all over the world. It's even easier for Gretech as they are the exclusive rights holder and broadcaster of Starcraft II in Korea.
As for the financial side of it, I would be surprised if Blizzard didn't charge Gretech a considerable negotiable fee for unlimited broadcasting rights, the same KeSPA (OGN/MBC) used to pay Blizzard over the course of 10 or so years.
On September 02 2010 11:23 Zanez.smarty wrote: This is a huge mistake. They will do this for season 1, and 98% of people will watch illegal, restreams or stolen VoDs/Replays. Then they will realize they made a mistake and season 2 will be considerably cheaper... But honestly it is too late, because by that point, everyone will have figured out about restreaming and VoD pirating, so they will have no need to buy the subscription... the convenience will be gone.
I was more than willing to purchase a premium account for GomTV to watch the GSL, because it would be simple, convenient and obvious. But now I won't, because the price is not worth the convenience... so I am going to find a solid restreamer, watch Korean version or get hold of the VoDs some other way, which will be more complicated and frustrating, but once I have figured out how to do that by the end of the month, I will have no reason to go to GomTV even if they lower the price.
This sounds like one of two things to me. Either Xenophobia or simple ignorance...
The only reasoning I can see behind such a gigantic price is... well that they simply do not want us to watch it. They can pretend they do by providing an English client and giving us Tastosis to commentate, that way their sponsors (Western companies like Intel) and Blizzard will be happy that they are providing the service. This price will just turn away foreigners, they will make minimal profits from it, that way when they do their profit projections, they can see that they are losing money or gaining nothing by providing their service to the west, and therefore have an excuse to stop all english streaming entirely. It seems completely unreasonable, but possible. KESPA is related to GOM in some way or another, so I can honestly see a potential hand in this from them... KESPA stands to profit if SC2 fails in either Korea or the West.
The other reason I can see for this price is downright stupidity and ignorance. They either think that 50$ is a perfect price for us, overfed, consumerist, rich Americans, or they have absolutely no knowledge of how economics work. I can't imagine the latter is necessarily the case, because I have a hard time believing that a big company could have gotten as far as it did without the knowledge of how a basic economic model... I mean do they really honestly believe that charging more money means more profits? Seriously? I suppose they could misunderstand their demographic... The majority of SC2 players are college students and young people with very little spare income (I don't get my loan till the 7th anyway). We can't afford to pay such unreasonable amounts for the game. Also, we are in a different timezone from those Koreans (REALLY!?)... I personally need to wake up at 3am to see the games live. Most people will miss the majority of the streams, so it seems ridiculous to pay a subscription for something we will rarely use. Maybe they don't understand that?
To anyone who thinks Blizzard is responsible... You have no backing for believing that. None whatsoever. Blizzard has never been mentioned, nor do they have anything to gain for charging such a ridiculous amount for the world to see e-sports. If you can tell me what they have to gain, I will give you a cookie, but you have nothing... Blizzard is an English, western company. They have something to gain ($$$) from seeing e-sports expand to the west. Making it so 98% of the hardcore (much less the casual) audience cannot afford to see the games does not benefit them in any way shape or form. They will not make money off of this, because no one will buy it. They will not kill brood war from this, because it would just squelch SC2, which would not benefit them. Brood war will just live longer, but Blizz will not earn profits from that. So how will Blizz earn money from this? What exactly makes you think that this is the work of Blizzard/Satan/Activision? This is GOMTV being Ignorant, Stupid, Xenophobic or some retarded mix of all 3 (which is what I think it is).
You have no backing or evidence for your assertions either. Given the spat between KeSPA and Gretech, I don't think KeSPA influences anything.
On the otherhand, have you ever wondered why Blizz sold rights to SC2 for $1 and now this comes along? I think you are the one who is zenophobic, since you think Gretech/Gom are stupid asking for such ridiculous prices. Oh those asians, how dumb. Maybe Gretech/Gom did the math taking into account Blizzard's cut, and found this is the price that makes profits for them.
I will ignore you accusing me as a racist considering you lack any reasoning for it... You seem to have a good idea what Blizzard's cut is on this. So care to enlighten us? I see KESPA having far more to gain than Blizzard for charging such a ridiculous amount. Not that it is likely either of them are responsible. We are all looking for people to point fingers at, and in all honesty until we have more information it seems like the only person/group we can blame is GOM... Blizz has nothing to gain from these prices, KESPA has been fighting with these people for ages... there has always been issues with getting decent streams for eSports outside of Korea for reasons unknown. So I have given my possible explanations for such a ridiculous price. It seems your theory is that Blizzard is charging them something unholy to stream it to us in the west, but with some kind of convoluted financing method that allows them to stream Korean versions in Korea for free... This kind of thought seems to be coupled with the idea that Blizzard has some paralytic fear of profits, considering the poll... Trust me, Blizzard knows how to make a profit... in fact, I believe they are very very good at it... and anyone with any remote understanding of economics understands that high prices =/= high profits. Trust me, both Blizzard and GOM understand the concept of how to make money. They both know that if you put the price this high you will lose a considerable chunk of money. They have gigantic financial divisions who's SOLE PURPOSE is to find out how to maximize profits, and no one on earth would make a price plan like this in order to maximize profits... There is some other reason behind this... If Blizzard is charging GOM a HUGE amount of money for the streaming rights (which would be stupid because...) then GOM would be stupid to charge this amount of money to view the stream (because this price plan is no in place to maximize income). This destroys eSports, costing Blizzard a ton of money, and vaporizing GOM outside of Korea. Yeah that sounds like a good idea.
Mark my words, something funny is going on behind the scenes... This is not about greed, because very little money will be flowing... this is about something else.
You are the one who brought racism into this in the first place. Care to elaborate why you think this is zenophobia? You say GOM is influenced by zenophobia and then go on to say GOM knows how to make money so it doesn't make sense... so then you blame KeSPA. See any contradiction in that? WTF is with people like you who have zero reasoning skills. How hard is it to understand KeSPA has NO INFLUENCE IN THIS WHATSOEVER CONTRACTUALLY OR BY AFFILIATION.
I think I'll stop right here. Your arguments speak for themselves on how misinformed you are. I will leave it up to other readers to gauge if your logic stems from racism/lack of understanding or not.
Pick and choose what you want from my thread, since it really helps you... accomplish... whatever it is you are trying to accomplish... I even said it is unlikely that KESPA is involved. I already elaborated on the possible xenophobia... the fact that korean stream to koreans is free, but the english stream to foreigners costs an unreasonably huge amount for... some reason... I assume they are trying to get servers in the US and those are... insanely expensive, so they are trying to minimize the number of servers they need, by minimizing viewers, by charging a huge amount...? I guess that could make sense. Again, these are my theories and reasons behind them. What are yours?
On September 02 2010 11:23 Zanez.smarty wrote: This is a huge mistake. They will do this for season 1, and 98% of people will watch illegal, restreams or stolen VoDs/Replays. Then they will realize they made a mistake and season 2 will be considerably cheaper... But honestly it is too late, because by that point, everyone will have figured out about restreaming and VoD pirating, so they will have no need to buy the subscription... the convenience will be gone.
I was more than willing to purchase a premium account for GomTV to watch the GSL, because it would be simple, convenient and obvious. But now I won't, because the price is not worth the convenience... so I am going to find a solid restreamer, watch Korean version or get hold of the VoDs some other way, which will be more complicated and frustrating, but once I have figured out how to do that by the end of the month, I will have no reason to go to GomTV even if they lower the price.
This sounds like one of two things to me. Either Xenophobia or simple ignorance...
The only reasoning I can see behind such a gigantic price is... well that they simply do not want us to watch it. They can pretend they do by providing an English client and giving us Tastosis to commentate, that way their sponsors (Western companies like Intel) and Blizzard will be happy that they are providing the service. This price will just turn away foreigners, they will make minimal profits from it, that way when they do their profit projections, they can see that they are losing money or gaining nothing by providing their service to the west, and therefore have an excuse to stop all english streaming entirely. It seems completely unreasonable, but possible. KESPA is related to GOM in some way or another, so I can honestly see a potential hand in this from them... KESPA stands to profit if SC2 fails in either Korea or the West.
The other reason I can see for this price is downright stupidity and ignorance. They either think that 50$ is a perfect price for us, overfed, consumerist, rich Americans, or they have absolutely no knowledge of how economics work. I can't imagine the latter is necessarily the case, because I have a hard time believing that a big company could have gotten as far as it did without the knowledge of how a basic economic model... I mean do they really honestly believe that charging more money means more profits? Seriously? I suppose they could misunderstand their demographic... The majority of SC2 players are college students and young people with very little spare income (I don't get my loan till the 7th anyway). We can't afford to pay such unreasonable amounts for the game. Also, we are in a different timezone from those Koreans (REALLY!?)... I personally need to wake up at 3am to see the games live. Most people will miss the majority of the streams, so it seems ridiculous to pay a subscription for something we will rarely use. Maybe they don't understand that?
To anyone who thinks Blizzard is responsible... You have no backing for believing that. None whatsoever. Blizzard has never been mentioned, nor do they have anything to gain for charging such a ridiculous amount for the world to see e-sports. If you can tell me what they have to gain, I will give you a cookie, but you have nothing... Blizzard is an English, western company. They have something to gain ($$$) from seeing e-sports expand to the west. Making it so 98% of the hardcore (much less the casual) audience cannot afford to see the games does not benefit them in any way shape or form. They will not make money off of this, because no one will buy it. They will not kill brood war from this, because it would just squelch SC2, which would not benefit them. Brood war will just live longer, but Blizz will not earn profits from that. So how will Blizz earn money from this? What exactly makes you think that this is the work of Blizzard/Satan/Activision? This is GOMTV being Ignorant, Stupid, Xenophobic or some retarded mix of all 3 (which is what I think it is).
You have no backing or evidence for your assertions either. Given the spat between KeSPA and Gretech, I don't think KeSPA influences anything.
On the otherhand, have you ever wondered why Blizz sold rights to SC2 for $1 and now this comes along? I think you are the one who is zenophobic, since you think Gretech/Gom are stupid asking for such ridiculous prices. Oh those asians, how dumb. Maybe Gretech/Gom did the math taking into account Blizzard's cut, and found this is the price that makes profits for them.
I will ignore you accusing me as a racist considering you lack any reasoning for it... You seem to have a good idea what Blizzard's cut is on this. So care to enlighten us? I see KESPA having far more to gain than Blizzard for charging such a ridiculous amount. Not that it is likely either of them are responsible. We are all looking for people to point fingers at, and in all honesty until we have more information it seems like the only person/group we can blame is GOM... Blizz has nothing to gain from these prices, KESPA has been fighting with these people for ages... there has always been issues with getting decent streams for eSports outside of Korea for reasons unknown. So I have given my possible explanations for such a ridiculous price. It seems your theory is that Blizzard is charging them something unholy to stream it to us in the west, but with some kind of convoluted financing method that allows them to stream Korean versions in Korea for free... This kind of thought seems to be coupled with the idea that Blizzard has some paralytic fear of profits, considering the poll... Trust me, Blizzard knows how to make a profit... in fact, I believe they are very very good at it... and anyone with any remote understanding of economics understands that high prices =/= high profits. Trust me, both Blizzard and GOM understand the concept of how to make money. They both know that if you put the price this high you will lose a considerable chunk of money. They have gigantic financial divisions who's SOLE PURPOSE is to find out how to maximize profits, and no one on earth would make a price plan like this in order to maximize profits... There is some other reason behind this... If Blizzard is charging GOM a HUGE amount of money for the streaming rights (which would be stupid because...) then GOM would be stupid to charge this amount of money to view the stream (because this price plan is no in place to maximize income). This destroys eSports, costing Blizzard a ton of money, and vaporizing GOM outside of Korea. Yeah that sounds like a good idea.
Mark my words, something funny is going on behind the scenes... This is not about greed, because very little money will be flowing... this is about something else.
I'm sorry, but this is BS (no offense). GOM already used to offer a paid subscription for higher quality stream and VODs for StarCraft TG Sambo 3, - a logical step in an absolutely standard practice in pay-per-view switch process:
1. Offer media content for free via another broadcaster (MBC) with commercials and all the rest of it. 2. As the audience grows over the course of several years, - offer a premium package (HQ stream, VODs, special event casting). 3. As a perspective audience is established, - switch to a 100% paid service with a number of different packages and options available.
All of this is absolutely standard and has been done by almost every single paid cable television provider all over the world. It's even easier for Gretech as they are the exclusive rights holder and broadcaster of Starcraft II in Korea.
As for the financial side of it, I would be surprised if Blizzard didn't charge Gretech a considerable negotiable fee for unlimited broadcasting rights, the same KeSPA (OGN/MBC) used to pay Blizzard over the course of 10 or so years.
But this is not about profits, obviously... Look at the number of people who are going to pay for this stream! The poll is on the front page of this thread. If this were about profits, they would charge something like 20$ for both streaming and vods, because more people would buy it, meaning more money would come in. 1723 people in the poll. 53 people spending 50$ would get them $2650 1000 people spending 5$ would get them $5000 It is likely that they will earn far more money by charging less money for their service. A big reason for them charging a large amount of money would be for them to actually aquire fewer subscribers... Maybe it is a bandwidth issue, maybe it is that they are somehow charged by Blizzard or something on a crazy "per-viewer basis"...
I get professional sports in 1080p at a better rate than this, and you can bet the production quality is a hell of a lot better. No fucking way would I pay that much to see the GSL.
But this is not about profits, obviously... Look at the number of people who are going to pay for this stream! The poll is on the front page of this thread. If this were about profits, they would charge something like 20$ for both streaming and vods, because more people would buy it, meaning more money would come in. 1723 people in the poll. 53 people spending 50$ would get them $2650 1000 people spending 5$ would get them $5000 It is likely that they will earn far more money by charging less money for their service.
1. It's never about instantaneous profits and never will be. 2. Korean broadcasters in the end only care about Korean viewership in millions, not foreigner Internet viewers in thousands (tens of thousands at the very best), it's more of a courtesy or an experiment. 3. A TL.net poll (bottom right corner) shows 3% Yes and 11% Posslble, - numbers likely to increase if any of the foreigners makes it into top 16 or further and follows it up with some good games in earlier rounds. 15% out of 4000 is already 600x50$ (or even 600x20$), which is more than enough to pay 5 people (2 casters, director, technicians) a monthly wage, support the thing and build on it.
But this is not about profits, obviously... Look at the number of people who are going to pay for this stream! The poll is on the front page of this thread. If this were about profits, they would charge something like 20$ for both streaming and vods, because more people would buy it, meaning more money would come in. 1723 people in the poll. 53 people spending 50$ would get them $2650 1000 people spending 5$ would get them $5000 It is likely that they will earn far more money by charging less money for their service.
1. It's never about instantaneous profits and never will be. 2. Korean broadcasters in the end only care about Korean viewership in millions, not foreigner Internet viewers in thousands (tens of thousands at the very best), it's more of a courtesy or an experiment. 3. A TL.net poll (bottom right corner) shows 3% Yes and 11% Posslble, - numbers likely to increase if any of the foreigners makes it into top 16 or further and follows it up with some good games in earlier rounds. 15% out of 4000 is already 600x50$ (or even 600x20$), which is more than enough to pay 5 people (2 casters, director, technicians) a monthly wage, support the thing and build on it.
Instantaneous Profits are one thing, but they must surely know this will damage their future profits from the west as well. So why don't they care about the west? Why is Korea all that matters with esports?
But this is not about profits, obviously... Look at the number of people who are going to pay for this stream! The poll is on the front page of this thread. If this were about profits, they would charge something like 20$ for both streaming and vods, because more people would buy it, meaning more money would come in. 1723 people in the poll. 53 people spending 50$ would get them $2650 1000 people spending 5$ would get them $5000 It is likely that they will earn far more money by charging less money for their service.
1. It's never about instantaneous profits and never will be. 2. Korean broadcasters in the end only care about Korean viewership in millions, not foreigner Internet viewers in thousands (tens of thousands at the very best), it's more of a courtesy or an experiment. 3. A TL.net poll (bottom right corner) shows 3% Yes and 11% Posslble, - numbers likely to increase if any of the foreigners makes it into top 16 or further and follows it up with some good games in earlier rounds. 15% out of 4000 is already 600x50$ (or even 600x20$), which is more than enough to pay 5 people (2 casters, director, technicians) a monthly wage, support the thing and build on it.
Instantaneous Profits are one thing, but they must surely know this will damage their future profits from the west as well. So why don't they care about the west? Why is Korea all that matters with esports?
Korean viewership in millions of viewers is all the matters to OGN, MBC and GOM. None of them will be getting any money from traditional advertising in free Internet broadcast to western or any international audience. Same applies to every single broadcaster around the globe. - Advertisers pay minimum for online viewers even from the region, compared to actual rated viewers for regular television broadcasts. - Advertisers pay nothing for global audience (which is why, for example, US broadcasters do not allow non US/Canada viewers watch shows w/ integrated ads for free on their websites). - The only way to establish this kind of service, in this case - English-speaking broadcast, is to charge a solid fee, which can't be too low, since they are obviously planning to expand and later on offer $100+ (probably $250+) packages for other tournaments, yearly subscriptions for the Team and Solo leagues and so on.
I wont be paying. I'm angry because I was looking forward to seeing Tasteless cast again, him being the one who got me interested in competitive Starcraft in the first place. But between classes, books, and car money I really don't have an extra fifty bucks to get a livestream I'll miss half of and VODs that will only be there during the season. I'm a bit disgusted that there isn't even a free low-quality stream honestly.
On September 01 2010 22:42 TanX wrote: Being a university student I can safely say that there is no way in hell that I am able to pay that much for a replay! 5 bucks a series or something would be possible, but 20 bucks a pop, and 30 bucks vods? forget it.
Good thing the internet is free if you search long enough!
But this is not about profits, obviously... Look at the number of people who are going to pay for this stream! The poll is on the front page of this thread. If this were about profits, they would charge something like 20$ for both streaming and vods, because more people would buy it, meaning more money would come in. 1723 people in the poll. 53 people spending 50$ would get them $2650 1000 people spending 5$ would get them $5000 It is likely that they will earn far more money by charging less money for their service.
1. It's never about instantaneous profits and never will be. 2. Korean broadcasters in the end only care about Korean viewership in millions, not foreigner Internet viewers in thousands (tens of thousands at the very best), it's more of a courtesy or an experiment. 3. A TL.net poll (bottom right corner) shows 3% Yes and 11% Posslble, - numbers likely to increase if any of the foreigners makes it into top 16 or further and follows it up with some good games in earlier rounds. 15% out of 4000 is already 600x50$ (or even 600x20$), which is more than enough to pay 5 people (2 casters, director, technicians) a monthly wage, support the thing and build on it.
Instantaneous Profits are one thing, but they must surely know this will damage their future profits from the west as well. So why don't they care about the west? Why is Korea all that matters with esports?
So what is your point? First you accuse GOM of racism then you retract that. Then you speculate on what's going on behind the scenes but you have no way of knowing for sure. The only thing you're saying is that GOM is stupid but you have no idea why they're doing what they are. It's just wild speculation on your part. You've blamed everyone except Blizzard so far and come up with convoluted scenarios to take Blizzard out of the loop in these shenanigans.
So what on earth is your point in all this? You have no idea about the cost structure incurred by GOM nor the internals of the contract between GOM and Blizzard. What are you trying to say?
But this is not about profits, obviously... Look at the number of people who are going to pay for this stream! The poll is on the front page of this thread. If this were about profits, they would charge something like 20$ for both streaming and vods, because more people would buy it, meaning more money would come in. 1723 people in the poll. 53 people spending 50$ would get them $2650 1000 people spending 5$ would get them $5000 It is likely that they will earn far more money by charging less money for their service.
1. It's never about instantaneous profits and never will be. 2. Korean broadcasters in the end only care about Korean viewership in millions, not foreigner Internet viewers in thousands (tens of thousands at the very best), it's more of a courtesy or an experiment. 3. A TL.net poll (bottom right corner) shows 3% Yes and 11% Posslble, - numbers likely to increase if any of the foreigners makes it into top 16 or further and follows it up with some good games in earlier rounds. 15% out of 4000 is already 600x50$ (or even 600x20$), which is more than enough to pay 5 people (2 casters, director, technicians) a monthly wage, support the thing and build on it.
Instantaneous Profits are one thing, but they must surely know this will damage their future profits from the west as well. So why don't they care about the west? Why is Korea all that matters with esports?
So what is your point? First you accuse GOM of racism then you retract that. Then you speculate on what's going on behind the scenes but you have no way of knowing for sure. The only thing you're saying is that GOM is stupid but you have no idea why they're doing what they are. It's just wild speculation on your part. You've blamed everyone except Blizzard so far and come up with convoluted scenarios to take Blizzard out of the loop in these shenanigans.
So what on earth is your point in all this? You have no idea about the cost structure incurred by GOM nor the internals of the contract between GOM and Blizzard. What are you trying to say?
I didn't accuse them of racism, nor did I retract it. I said xenophobia is a potential explanation. Along with pure stupidity, bandwidth costs, desire to keep viewership numbers and/or profits low and such. This is a forum in which ideas can be explored. I am simply bringing up discussions... you taking it so deeply to heart is your own personal problem. I have never claimed to know WHY they are charging such ridiculous prices, and it is certainly possible that Blizzard could be responsible... But I am brainstorming ideas and explanations, not because I want someone to blame, not because I want to seem smart, but because I have nothing better to do, and I enjoy having debates and discussions. Not my fault that you can't have a decent discussion... You seem to want to blame Blizzard, but you can't seem to find anything to back it up. All my theories have had some backing and rationale.
On September 02 2010 15:28 Go0g3n wrote: Korean viewership in millions of viewers is all the matters to OGN, MBC and GOM. None of them will be getting any money from traditional advertising in free Internet broadcast to western or any international audience. Same applies to every single broadcaster around the globe. - Advertisers pay minimum for online viewers even from the region, compared to actual rated viewers for regular television broadcasts. - Advertisers pay nothing for global audience (which is why, for example, US broadcasters do not allow non US/Canada viewers watch shows w/ integrated ads for free on their websites). - The only way to establish this kind of service, in this case - English-speaking broadcast, is to charge a solid fee, which can't be too low, since they are obviously planning to expand and later on offer $100+ (probably $250+) packages for other tournaments, yearly subscriptions for the Team and Solo leagues and so on.
1. US channel websites (ie comedy central) are not viewable from Canadian IP address because the Canadian channels (ie comedy network) purchased the Canadian broadcast rights, including internet casts.
2. you can still get paid for international audience. look at youtube.
3. there are sufficient amount of revenue to be generated from online ads to support streaming service. look at how many ppl are offering streams of their own bnet matches. how do you expect companies like ustream survive?
But this is not about profits, obviously... Look at the number of people who are going to pay for this stream! The poll is on the front page of this thread. If this were about profits, they would charge something like 20$ for both streaming and vods, because more people would buy it, meaning more money would come in. 1723 people in the poll. 53 people spending 50$ would get them $2650 1000 people spending 5$ would get them $5000 It is likely that they will earn far more money by charging less money for their service.
1. It's never about instantaneous profits and never will be. 2. Korean broadcasters in the end only care about Korean viewership in millions, not foreigner Internet viewers in thousands (tens of thousands at the very best), it's more of a courtesy or an experiment. 3. A TL.net poll (bottom right corner) shows 3% Yes and 11% Posslble, - numbers likely to increase if any of the foreigners makes it into top 16 or further and follows it up with some good games in earlier rounds. 15% out of 4000 is already 600x50$ (or even 600x20$), which is more than enough to pay 5 people (2 casters, director, technicians) a monthly wage, support the thing and build on it.
Instantaneous Profits are one thing, but they must surely know this will damage their future profits from the west as well. So why don't they care about the west? Why is Korea all that matters with esports?
So what is your point? First you accuse GOM of racism then you retract that. Then you speculate on what's going on behind the scenes but you have no way of knowing for sure. The only thing you're saying is that GOM is stupid but you have no idea why they're doing what they are. It's just wild speculation on your part. You've blamed everyone except Blizzard so far and come up with convoluted scenarios to take Blizzard out of the loop in these shenanigans.
So what on earth is your point in all this? You have no idea about the cost structure incurred by GOM nor the internals of the contract between GOM and Blizzard. What are you trying to say?
I didn't accuse them of racism, nor did I retract it. I said xenophobia is a potential explanation. Along with pure stupidity, bandwidth costs, desire to keep viewership numbers and/or profits low and such. This is a forum in which ideas can be explored. I am simply bringing up discussions... you taking it so deeply to heart is your own personal problem. I have never claimed to know WHY they are charging such ridiculous prices, and it is certainly possible that Blizzard could be responsible... But I am brainstorming ideas and explanations, not because I want someone to blame, not because I want to seem smart, but because I have nothing better to do, and I enjoy having debates and discussions. Not my fault that you can't have a decent discussion... You seem to want to blame Blizzard, but you can't seem to find anything to back it up. All my theories have had some backing and rationale.
The only backing you have is that it doesn't make sense to your uninformed mind, thus there must be a conspiracy or racism involved.
Ok, let's take Blizzard out of the picture as you so ferverently wish. Have you ever wondered why streams out of Korea are so bad. The pipe that links Korea to the rest of the world is not good. Within Korea, internet is lightning fast but connecting from overseas is slow. But ofcourse you have no way of knowing that. Then, GOM has two options: either relocate all their servers to the US or jack up the price so they can handle the limited traffic. But once again, you don't know that for sure, but you call GOM stupid or racist because you can't understand their motivations.
Intel and Blizzard are both western companies based in the United States. I am sure they are thrilled with the idea that the tournament they are backing is charging such a huge amount that no one in the United States are ever going to watch to see their ads and their game.
But this is not about profits, obviously... Look at the number of people who are going to pay for this stream! The poll is on the front page of this thread. If this were about profits, they would charge something like 20$ for both streaming and vods, because more people would buy it, meaning more money would come in. 1723 people in the poll. 53 people spending 50$ would get them $2650 1000 people spending 5$ would get them $5000 It is likely that they will earn far more money by charging less money for their service.
1. It's never about instantaneous profits and never will be. 2. Korean broadcasters in the end only care about Korean viewership in millions, not foreigner Internet viewers in thousands (tens of thousands at the very best), it's more of a courtesy or an experiment. 3. A TL.net poll (bottom right corner) shows 3% Yes and 11% Posslble, - numbers likely to increase if any of the foreigners makes it into top 16 or further and follows it up with some good games in earlier rounds. 15% out of 4000 is already 600x50$ (or even 600x20$), which is more than enough to pay 5 people (2 casters, director, technicians) a monthly wage, support the thing and build on it.
Instantaneous Profits are one thing, but they must surely know this will damage their future profits from the west as well. So why don't they care about the west? Why is Korea all that matters with esports?
So what is your point? First you accuse GOM of racism then you retract that. Then you speculate on what's going on behind the scenes but you have no way of knowing for sure. The only thing you're saying is that GOM is stupid but you have no idea why they're doing what they are. It's just wild speculation on your part. You've blamed everyone except Blizzard so far and come up with convoluted scenarios to take Blizzard out of the loop in these shenanigans.
So what on earth is your point in all this? You have no idea about the cost structure incurred by GOM nor the internals of the contract between GOM and Blizzard. What are you trying to say?
I didn't accuse them of racism, nor did I retract it. I said xenophobia is a potential explanation. Along with pure stupidity, bandwidth costs, desire to keep viewership numbers and/or profits low and such. This is a forum in which ideas can be explored. I am simply bringing up discussions... you taking it so deeply to heart is your own personal problem. I have never claimed to know WHY they are charging such ridiculous prices, and it is certainly possible that Blizzard could be responsible... But I am brainstorming ideas and explanations, not because I want someone to blame, not because I want to seem smart, but because I have nothing better to do, and I enjoy having debates and discussions. Not my fault that you can't have a decent discussion... You seem to want to blame Blizzard, but you can't seem to find anything to back it up. All my theories have had some backing and rationale.
The only backing you have is that it doesn't make sense to your uninformed mind, thus there must be a conspiracy or racism involved.
Ok, let's take Blizzard out of the picture as you so ferverently wish. Have you ever wondered why streams out of Korea are so bad. The pipe that links Korea to the rest of the world is not good. Within Korea, internet is lightning fast but connecting from overseas is slow. But ofcourse you have no way of knowing that. Then, GOM has two options: either relocate all their servers to the US or jack up the price so they can handle the limited traffic. But once again, you don't know that for sure, but you call GOM stupid or racist because you can't understand their motivations.
Sir, sir... for a person with a name like "junkacc" you really seem to take this stuff personally...
I'm going to pay, I do think it is too expensive, and I do have some concerns about the quality and performance of the stream.
But a) They are paying members of our community, to cast in English. b) This supports e-sports directly, and the e-sport I'm interested in specifically. c) I want to watch the games ASAP!
I know a lot of people have spoken out quite strongly against the GOM approach and the arguments are certainly with a lot of merit. But at the end of the day, people need to get paid, and particularly the fact that GOM are giving people like Artosis and Tasteless money to get by, means we, if we are in a position to do so, should support them.
We should offer constructive feedback too. I certainly will. But I think reflexive criticism (no one likes to pay, we need to be upfront about that) will not see things improve.
I am not paying $20 a month (which is more than I pay for cable/ internet each month) for an online stream that is WAY out of my timezone. Gom couldnt even wait a few months before strong arming us into paying, if they did this with the second or third season I could see that, but damn.
Watch this 3 months in a row and you PAY FOR THE DAMN GAME AGAIN. I can see why Kespa ran you out of business Gom, you guys suck.
Whoa what? Theres obviously no chance in hell me or anybody I know would pay to watch this. Damn I was looking forward to it too. I suppose I'll try to find restreams but other than that I won't be watching.
20 bucks for stream, well that's alot but GSL is how long? 1 month right? You pay 10 bucks for MLG weekend stream, so looking at it again it might not be 2bad of a deal at all.
it's absurd to demand that much money for vids of a such new game, it cannot get popular this way. assuming blizz/gomtv don't want to increase their earnings only for this year, it's a absolutly bad marketing strategy.
I don't know for sure whether GOM are making a huge mistake here or if they've taken a great gamble on the actual popularity of SCII, but my gut feeling is they've overestimated.
I won't be paying for the stream or the vods because;
I won't be free to watch all the matches I want to.
I don't trust the GOMTV streaming service.
I will need more than the given month to watch all the VODS.
I don't want to support a company that doesn't seem to understand or care about its audience.
I really do want to support the Liquid team out there but I guess I'll have to wave my TL flag somewhere else.
i wonder if jon747, who usually upload MBC and OGN matches to youtube, will be able to upload the korean version of the GSL. my guess is that Gom is gonna ask youtube to take it down.
On September 02 2010 17:32 kar1181 wrote: But at the end of the day, people need to get paid, and particularly the fact that GOM are giving people like Artosis and Tasteless money to get by, means we, if we are in a position to do so, should support them.
So basically this is a charity for Tasteless and Artosis? Why don't you donate 25$ to each of them directly, as I am sure they will get a larger share of that.
I hope (and think) that Tasteless and Artosis are as frustrated by this as everyone else is, but of course they can't speak up against their employee. We can only hope that they have some clout with the organisation and can help persuade them of the benefits of free/cheap streams and VODs.
On September 02 2010 19:20 dybydx wrote: i wonder if jon747, who usually upload MBC and OGN matches to youtube, will be able to upload the korean version of the GSL. my guess is that Gom is gonna ask youtube to take it down.
On September 02 2010 08:01 st3roids wrote: Consider sc2 is one of the most - if not the most expensive game in pc plus u need a good pc to run it all adds within the cost.
blizzard making millions as profit , they want a popular sc2 sponsor the good tournaments.
Even a million a year for tournament prices for a company as big as blizzard. is pocket change.
Even if a million is "pocket change", its still a buisness you never want to run in the negative of ANY investment regardless of how much that negative is.
Regardless of what people are saying $2 a day is pretty cheap. Considering most won't want to watch EVERY player in their matches. I personally only care to watch TLO, IntoTheRainbow, Tester and Fruitseller/Cool. Even if all their days are different that is what $8? Not much of an investment.
I still think they're a bit overpriced but if the prices don't change I'll pay.
To me, the issue isn't with whether it will be money worth spent. I can buy a bottle of water for about 2USD in South Africa, but since our tap water is completely fine, I refuse to buy a bottle of water. If Gom was the only organisation that had large Starcraft 2 broadcasts, I would consider paying for the service. However, I refuse to pay for their stream because there are other organisations like MLG and ESL who have shown that it is possible to present a good free stream. To add to this, their premium streams were both much cheaper, of a higher quality, and more reliable than Gom's (from past experience).
Gom is trying to ask a lot of money for an inferior service that most people get for free, and I refuse to support that. I agree with Chill that if a free stream was offered, and this was a HD service that we had to pay more for, more people would be willing to pay. Perhaps Gom would make slightly less money by offering a free stream, but they wouldn't alienate the entire foreign community with a single tournament.
IMHO, if people start paying 20$, next year, (or may be when Heart Of The Swarm gets out) the price will be 30$, and next one 40$, etc...
Time and history has show us that the greedy of the sector is a bottomless pit, they wont stop unless none purchase their streams.
And that doesnt means they are gonna think people lost interest on Sc2, and give up casting in english, or something, cause they know Sc2 is becoming bigger and bigger everyday, and if they want to grow larger with Sc2, they must do the right things, not try to milk customers.
So, basically if someone is thinking in purchase a vod or the stream (at those prices), he is making us more harm than good.
My friends and I enjoyed staying up till 1-2am to watch starcaft on GomTV. But if we were tired we would just say screw it and watch it in the morning on VODS.
Now we'll HAVE to stay up since we're paying for it, or we'll have to buy vods :/
On September 02 2010 18:11 myIRE wrote: 20 bucks for stream, well that's alot but GSL is how long? 1 month right? You pay 10 bucks for MLG weekend stream, so looking at it again it might not be 2bad of a deal at all.
When I paid for the MLG premium stream, i did it knowing that it was a weekend long tournament and thus i made time to watch the whole thing. There's no way i'll be able to catch every single game in GSL however, there are just too many. Not to mention the fact that it's being broadcast from korea so the time zone difference will make it even worse. Or the fact that the stream quality is evidently much worse and the ToS is pretty sketchy.
Sure, if you're looking at it from a $/game watched standpoint, $20 is cheap. If you watch every game, and if the stream is up and the quality is decent. But how many people will watch every game? I watch GSL it's going to be to watch the 5-8 people in the tournament i've actually heard of, I'm not going to watch all the other people until the semifinals.
Honestly, a fair price to me would be like $60 a YEAR. What is this month by month shit? I don't think GOMtv understands anything about America right now. I don't think they understand their target audience, and I am starting to have doubts they understand how much $50 dollars is to 18-26 year old people. Maybe they got their unit conversions wrong? Maybe they mean $50 Korean?
It'll be interesting to see how many people do buy the stream/VODs. Hopefully not many people do and they're forced to switch to a different model, but who knows?
No, I will not buy either. Seriously, there's other games to watch, lots of other games. It would be like if ESPN started charging for the games they air, considering it's not my teams playing on their network, I'll just watch the people still paying for it with advertising.
Plus, how much better of a deal is it to secure advertisements for everyone. Like the HDH, I never knew what IRIP was until their tournament, and that's a product I see the use for.
I can't help but think they would make the same amount of money offering a free stream + HD upgrade, like everyone else. The number of people who are actually going to pay for those streams has to be very few, no?
Will not pay for Live ticket and wasn't going to because it happens at like 6 am were i am. I am willing to pay for a VOD ticket if they reduce the price to under 10 bucks. I
I think I understand GOM's mentality here. They decided that what they would do is figure out what the most sensible course of action would be, and then do the opposite.
I won't pay for this. They are free to organize their tournament and make people pay to watch this but I won't participe to this. Btw if there is no pro scene watchable for free I won't buy the next 2 starcraft extension and I'll just forget this game.
welp, really happy I'm in Korea. There's no way I'd pay to watch it, but its great that because they're trying to make it catch on in Korea its free for everyone here.
I think it's not worth to bring this thread back to life as the pricing details have changed. I know many people who just weren't going to buy it because it was forced and after it was made free + premium, they bought it :o
It's a terrible idea to charge for streaming and vods at this point in time.
SC2 is at an infant stage and although this might be big in Korea, it is not the same case in the rest of the world. Not many people even KNOWS about the GSL, even amongst my SC2-playing friends, here in Southern California, where Blizzard's HQ is.
Simply said, Blizzard should make streaming AND vods free in order to promote this game worldwide AS AN ESPORT.
There are plenty of ways to make money after tournaments like this are more well-known. By charging for the less-than-perfect service that is GomTV, they are running the risk of damaging their reputation. Anyone who's purchased it knows it was a waste of money, and word of mouth will ruin them.
On September 08 2010 08:26 Otakusan wrote:Anyone who's purchased it knows it was a waste of money, and word of mouth will ruin them.
I find it highly amusing that you're trying to speak for everyone. I bought the season ticket and couldn't be happier and know a ton of people who feel the same way. In fact, based on what i've been reading on the forums, a vast majority of people who purchased the season ticket seem to agree with me.
If you disagree that's fine, obviously you're entitled to an opinion, but please don't speak for all of us.
This whole pricing system has killed my interest in this tournament entirely. I'll watch the maybe some foreigner games and the final... the korean version of the vods, anyway. Unless the english casts get linked directly on teamliquid for free, they're just not worth it.
edit: Of course if you bought it you don't think it's a waste of money, because then you'd have to feel bad about a purchase you made, which nobody likes to do. But obviously it is a waste of money, since we've never had to pay for vods, ever before. I'll watch free tournaments where I actually recognize the players over this any day.
edit2: And what the dude above me said, how is this tournament helping to spread the word that e-sports is awesome? Nobody who's not a totally committed fan already is going to watch this tournament. It might as well not even exist to a large majority of the human race. This is in direct contrast to IEM, and even HDH back in the beta, which drew in lots of new fans to the game. Even the GOM tournaments back in 2007 that had free english casted VODs of pro-games did wonders for the revitalization of Brood War. This tournament, however, doesn't even come close to doing what it's predecessor and the other SC2 tournaments have done and are doing for the non-korean scene.
It's only $20....hell if every tournament gave me this many games for the price tag, i'd be happy to pay.
So far its been amazing games with fantastic commentary. Even if you have a minimum wage job, you can afford the $20. The more people who actually pay and support these guys, the more events we will get to see. If people are just going to find a restream, why would these guys go through all the extra work to provide English commentary / higher quality streams?
It's the same argument as pirating software, if you like the product you should want to support it.
On September 08 2010 08:26 Otakusan wrote:Anyone who's purchased it knows it was a waste of money, and word of mouth will ruin them.
I find it highly amusing that you're trying to speak for everyone. I bought the season ticket and couldn't be happier and know a ton of people who feel the same way. In fact, based on what i've been reading on the forums, a vast majority of people who purchased the season ticket seem to agree with me.
If you disagree that's fine, obviously you're entitled to an opinion, but please don't speak for all of us.
Sorry, that was not my intention at all.
But once you realize there are websites that re-stream at high quality with VODS available for free... I guess it is down to whether you support GomTV that much, kind of like whether you would purchase official music CD's of artists you support.
EPT
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