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Doing this will hurt the profit they make from advertising, not only because less people will watch it now, but because people who just paid for a tournament are going to be less persuaded to support Gom by buying the products being advertised. The cost for the stream is ridiculous, and despite DJ Wheat saying the cost boils down to about $0.33 a game, let people pay for individual vods then, that way I might possibly buy the vods with idra, artosis, and tlo in them, this way, I'm not going to be buying anything.
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On September 02 2010 04:22 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 04:19 mmdmmd wrote:On September 02 2010 04:10 LuciD` wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote:Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!! YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?Yes! (103) 86% Not Sure. (9) 8% No! (8) 7% 120 total votes Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream? (Vote): Yes!
(Vote): No!
(Vote): Not Sure.
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it. The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now. Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause. All I can say is: 95% of us disagree. Speak for yourself. Maybe you like stealing and complaining about anything that isn't free, but I can assure you that 95% of people are not like that.
Agreed, but what more do you expect from the younger generation?
To the guy stating he was going to pirate because he wasn't going to buy in the first place, why would you complain about the pricing in the first place if you wasn't planning on buying? If you don't agree with the pricing, let your voices be heard on their forum and speak with your wallet. Pirating the VoDs wouldn't do anything but hurt these sorts of things from happening in the future when they see that, after offering the option to access VoDs and streams, that their products are getting downloaded in the masses. It's already a privilege for us to have the stream/Vods available with english commentary. They could have easily scratched that off the board and only provided the Korean coverage. However, for them to give us the quality that we want along with English commentary (that we were looking forward to), choices had to be made. If you don't like it, don't buy it but just going on a tandrum on pirating it really isn't making the community much different than other lacking game communities.
I'm probably wasting my breath giving my $.02.
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On September 02 2010 04:21 LuciD` wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 04:19 mmdmmd wrote:On September 02 2010 04:10 LuciD` wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote:Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!! YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?Yes! (103) 86% Not Sure. (9) 8% No! (8) 7% 120 total votes Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream? (Vote): Yes!
(Vote): No!
(Vote): Not Sure.
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it. The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now. Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause. All I can say is: 95% of us disagree. Then don't expect a Korean company to ever try and provide us with anything in the future. The price is too high for sure I am on board with that. But respect the fact that there's a company inside Korea that wishes to reach out to the foreign community and try to be civil about their mistakes. That's all I am saying.
well im glad you live in lala land but some people appreciate the truth
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On September 02 2010 04:22 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 04:19 mmdmmd wrote:On September 02 2010 04:10 LuciD` wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote:Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!! YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?Yes! (103) 86% Not Sure. (9) 8% No! (8) 7% 120 total votes Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream? (Vote): Yes!
(Vote): No!
(Vote): Not Sure.
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it. The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now. Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause. All I can say is: 95% of us disagree. Speak for yourself. Maybe you like stealing and complaining about anything that isn't free, but I can assure you that 95% of people are not like that. Lucid is speaking the truth.
The 95% was probably a reference to the poll. Makes sense.
As for the whole issue - it's their tournament, their enterprise and they are free to develop it as they think fit. They definitely put a lot of money on the line, so they, somehow, expect at least the same amount back.
Having said that, I also must say that I wouldn't pay even the tiniest amount in the world just to have access to a stream (paying to increase quality / get rid of commercials is a completely different issue). I do this not because said amount would make a hole in my finances, but rather because I feel it's fundamentally flawed and an extremely wrong approach. SC2 should get as much publicity and as many viewers as humanly possible, in order to grow, and in order to, like any other sport (or every other major business on this planet) finance itself through the advertisement - customer relationship. I don't see how a $30 stream is going to attract anyone but the hardcore fans.
I feel that this strategy is going to take a huge toll on their viewer count, and I don't see how they're gonna be able to keep up with future events if this will really be the case.
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On September 02 2010 04:30 ikkyixo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 04:22 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:On September 02 2010 04:19 mmdmmd wrote:On September 02 2010 04:10 LuciD` wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote:Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!! YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?Yes! (103) 86% Not Sure. (9) 8% No! (8) 7% 120 total votes Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream? (Vote): Yes!
(Vote): No!
(Vote): Not Sure.
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it. The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now. Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause. All I can say is: 95% of us disagree. Speak for yourself. Maybe you like stealing and complaining about anything that isn't free, but I can assure you that 95% of people are not like that. To the guy stating he was going to pirate because he wasn't going to buy in the first place, why would you complain about the pricing in the first place if you wasn't planning on buying?
Well, there are A LOT of ppl in this thread that aren't going to pay for this stream and still complain about it. Are you saying that everyone is wrong?
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On September 02 2010 04:28 mmdmmd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 04:22 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:On September 02 2010 04:19 mmdmmd wrote:On September 02 2010 04:10 LuciD` wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote:Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!! YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?Yes! (103) 86% Not Sure. (9) 8% No! (8) 7% 120 total votes Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream? (Vote): Yes!
(Vote): No!
(Vote): Not Sure.
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it. The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now. Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause. All I can say is: 95% of us disagree. Speak for yourself. Maybe you like stealing and complaining about anything that isn't free, but I can assure you that 95% of people are not like that. Lucid is speaking the truth. Noble sir, (almost) every sc youtube/vod/stream you watched until now are reproduced without the permission of the copyright holder. Have the thought of "Maybe 'I' like stealing and complaining about anything that isn't free" ever came across your mind?
Has it ever come across to you that the advertisements and sponsorships that pay for those broadcasts mean absolutely nothing to us foreigners so OGN and MBC probably don't care that it's restreamed for the foreign community because it is completely irrelevant to their business?
This is also probably why it's costing us foreigners money because the advertising and sponsorships simply aren't quite there for something like this.
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I'd pay for it if I had some assurance (in the form of a trial first or something--I feel they should make the first broadcast first or something so we could see what we'll get?) that what I'm buying is going to be worth it.
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To the guy stating he was going to pirate because he wasn't going to buy in the first place, why would you complain about the pricing in the first place if you wasn't planning on buying?
You guys seem to be confusing "upset and complaining" with "not going to buy". I'm not going to buy it. I haven't complained yet. If I want to watch it, it'll be for free. That's all there is to it.
I do think they have terrible, terrible decision making abilities though. They could make 10 times as much if they charged 1/10th as much.
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On September 02 2010 04:34 mmdmmd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 04:30 ikkyixo wrote:On September 02 2010 04:22 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:On September 02 2010 04:19 mmdmmd wrote:On September 02 2010 04:10 LuciD` wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 02 2010 03:13 mmdmmd wrote:Just imagine what will happen when Blizzard kills off Kespa and takes complete control of the Starcraft scene!! YOU PAY WHAT WE SAY! CAUSE WE HAVE DA POWER!!!!Poll: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream?Yes! (103) 86% Not Sure. (9) 8% No! (8) 7% 120 total votes Your vote: Will you download a pirate version of the paid stream? (Vote): Yes!
(Vote): No!
(Vote): Not Sure.
Honestly, I'm kind of ashamed of polls like this one. I do happen to think their pricing plan is pretty steep, but this kind of behavior is not really necessary. To me it shows we feel that there's some sort of entitlement to this foreigner coverage. We aren't entitled to any of it. They have decided to use some of their resources to provide us with coverage of this huge event and they pretty clearly can not do it for free if they think they can charge this much for it. The answer is not to throw a hissy fit and say we are going to steal your product because we deserve to see english commentary of this event both live and on VoD for a price we set. If I were the one making business decisions I would just feel disrespected by the audience and feel no reason to even offer it in the future. Who knows, maybe anything less and they will be operating at a loss? We have no idea what the circumstances are. If that's the case if they lower prices, operate at a loss, they may get some more subscriptions but maybe they feel their product is still going to be stolen now. Seriously, the best way to go about this is to voice your opinion in a respectful manner as a mass and if the two parties can't come to a mutal agreement just simply don't purchase their plan. Don't try and act like the pirating community and say well we're just going to stick it to you by stealing and brag about it. It's childish, selfish and it is indeed counter productive to the advancement of our cause. All I can say is: 95% of us disagree. Speak for yourself. Maybe you like stealing and complaining about anything that isn't free, but I can assure you that 95% of people are not like that. To the guy stating he was going to pirate because he wasn't going to buy in the first place, why would you complain about the pricing in the first place if you wasn't planning on buying? Well, there are A LOT of ppl in this thread that aren't going to pay for this stream and still complain about it. Are you saying that everyone is wrong?
No, not at all. I agree the price is pretty high for what you're getting. I assure you though, if the price was lower, higher quality, etc., that most would actually purchase. From what I took from your statement, it reflected that regardless of price, you weren't going to pay for it anyway. I would assume this would apply if the stream was a $1. If you weren't going to purchase to watch the stream, then why would you complain when the price is actually higher than expected?
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If they really wanted to expand the e-sports community in the west,
A) they would have made the preliminaries to their tournament online (lol, having to fly to korea?),
B) they would make their streaming options welcoming to foreigners instead of extremely unappealing
They probably don't care about foreign viewership. I don't know why, but that would be my guess. Oh well.
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according to the GOM website, TG-Intel are the primary sponsors again for this tournament (just like the Gom Classic for BW). but we have to recognize the fact that TG-Intel paid their sponsorship costs because they expect there will be alot of viewers and get good PR for their products. right now, this do not appear to be the case, especially if they piss off OGN/MBC.
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On September 02 2010 04:26 papaz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 04:23 Anomarad wrote:
So is the stream free for Koreans though? I thought this was on TV as well?
I'm sure someone will stream the Korean version which we can all watch. Sorry Tasteless your voice isn't worth 20 bucks to me. :\ I think it will be free and here is a thread that shows how to register and all to see the stream. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=100219
Excellent, I already had an account for BW(<3) viewing. I suggest everyone else makes accounts now in anticipation of the matches. Provided that OGN will stream it. ^_^;
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They do need to make some return on the bandwidth and other costs associated with having english streams (in addition to paying artosis and tasteless) and serving Korean ads to people thousands of miles away does not make them money.
They attempted to do this during the gom sc1 leagues with "donations" and prize tickets or whatever. They've had all the time in the world to come up with a better solution and instead opted for a worse one either out of greed or just stupidity.
If there was no english stream to begin with there'd be no questions about restreaming 
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All I can say to GOM is "Hell hath no fury like a nerd scorned."
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Kinda works for me living with roommates I suppose we can share the bill. We regulary watch an MMA event or two a month for 55 bucks each. A month of 120+ games and many hours of entertainment seems worth it. I'll probably be buying it. I'd imagine the round of 8 and up will be pretty entertaining and that's at least a few hours.
It was nice being free, I participated in the beta donations in Season 2 and the 50 dollar pricing model of Season 3. Enjoyed the hell out of it. My roommates really enjoyed watching MLG and this will probably be of much higher production.
It would be nice to know where all of the money is going to, but there will definitely be complaints from me at least if it isn't smooth. 500k stream doesn't really seem high enough to be considered high quality, unless they have some super Netflix compression or something.
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On September 02 2010 04:37 Buddhist wrote:I do think they have terrible, terrible decision making abilities though. They could make 10 times as much if they charged 1/10th as much.
Exactly. If you're selling an ice cream for 20 dollars with 50 cent costs and 5 people buy it, you earn 97.50$. If you sell it for 1 dollar and 5000 people buy it, you earn 2500$.
They never learnt the basics of marketing.
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No way I am paying for this. I am very excited about this GOM league and I really wish them huge succes but I think selling tickets for live stream and VODs is a big mistake.
They should stream for free and sell HD stream just like MLG did.
I am so dissapointed now. I was so hyped for this event. I guess Ill read the results on this forum. /sigh.
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i'll buy it despite not being happy with the price but i do want want to see what should be a damn good sc2 event.
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i have a 48in big screen HD tv... i need to figure out how to get the matches on my tv... might be worth stream costs then...
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Back when GOM did the "donate for HD stream" thing back in BW, I donated and didn't think about it at all because GOMTV were awesome and it was cheap entertainment.
But now, when we are forced into it, I just don't like the idea of paying because it just seems so greedy/stupid/anti-esports.
Understandable that they want some ways to earn money from the foreigners watching as well though, especially considering the amount of money that Gretech sunk into this project, but this isn't the way and it just won't work, you just can't stop every guy restreaming and everyone is gonna find them easily.
For the current price, very few people will buy it, a ton of people will restream it and the majority will watch restreams for free.
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EPT
