EPTIn Bronze, trends are emerging - Page 6
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Pikachusc2
Canada91 Posts
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backtoback
Canada1276 Posts
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
On September 01 2010 15:31 backtoback wrote: OP I know exactly what you mean on your post. I am a mid - high level diamond player and I played on my friend's bronze account. I played one game where they go heavy macro and make the proper units to depend. I was shocked they did mass banshee rushes, even in diamond i don't often see this. It is repelled with ease but i was shocked they gave a fight. After one game of winning PvT, i got him promoted to silver.. don't know what i did but i got him in silver with one win hahha! Sure bronze was easy on release but people are improving a lot and a lot more. I was copper when the game released and after became gold, platinum when resets have happened. May you show us reps? I have a couple friends in bronze: although the strats aren't viable on a competetive level, they are strangely viable on the casual level: mass banshees does well against stalkers en masse. | ||
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Vz0
Canada378 Posts
he sounds like a guy thats willing to improve and thats all thats needed. sorry topic starter if any of us sound rude. I mean its like me jumping into the honda forum and saying why can't I top 200 with my 2004 civic anymore?? People (especially people that are mean) will take the change and jump on you. even though your not, i suggest you NOT to ask for help and just discover the game for yourself. The graph of your rts ability and time is not linear its more like a ... y=tan(x) where Y is your rts ability and X is time. ![[image loading]](http://www.clarku.edu/~djoyce/trig/tan.gif) o<x<π/2 teh start mgiht be a little slow but as you get better your ability willl shoot up until its pretty high up (diamond ish) to the point where it becomes increasingly hard to get better (thus the asymptote). | ||
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backtoback
Canada1276 Posts
On September 01 2010 15:36 Froadac wrote: I have a couple friends in bronze: although the strats aren't viable on a competetive level, they are strangely viable on the casual level: mass banshees does well against stalkers en masse. wait what? I actually massed stalkers with blink against his mass banshees o.o. It was countered with ease with an observer but I was diamond and he was bronze. My bronze friend ragequits when he sees banshees and voidrays killing their probeline/base. They are just too slow and unresponsive to react on threat situations. | ||
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Rokk
United States425 Posts
On September 01 2010 15:38 Vz0 wrote: y=tan(x) where Y is your rts ability and X is time. [graph...] o<x<π/2 teh start mgiht be a little slow but as you get better your ability willl shoot up until its pretty high up (diamond ish) to the point where it becomes increasingly hard to get better (thus the asymptote). Your asymptote is going the wrong way. Your graph shows that with a little more time your skill increases exponentially. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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TheBB
Switzerland5133 Posts
On September 01 2010 15:38 Vz0 wrote: y=tan(x) where Y is your rts ability and X is time. + Show Spoiler + o<x<π/2 So all I have to do to get infinitely good is to play for pi/2 time? | ||
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crappen
Norway1546 Posts
On September 01 2010 14:51 gaizka wrote: Responses are making this sound like if the bronzers have gained consciousness or something like that. August 31, 2010: Reports of sights of intelligence in bronze league. December 3, 2010: All the bronzers have advanced into upper leagues. January 9, 2011: A bronzer qualifies for GSL2. January 15, 2011: Skynet launches a nuclear attack on the east. August 29, 1997: Judgement day. Off-topic + Show Spoiler + Holy mother of, that was so damn funny. I get the same feeling reading this. On-topic I made a smurf account with my guest key, Im a douche I know. So I have experienced bronze league, and it is something that is fascinating to scout for. Actually the upper bronze players can sometimes even set you off-guard with things you'd never expect. The wall-in make a bunch of units is very boring though. Seeing bunkers and cannons you are now free to expand overall, but still scout. So basically, you should not hate that they all wall-in like that, just take the oppurtunity, it is a new experience. If they cannon and turret up to shut all your harrass up, you can be aggressive in another way, the aggressive art of expanding. Many people dont see the aggressive part in expanding, but it is one of my favourite moves to be aggressive with, and as zerg one of the few ways (what is a post without zerg qq). You may hate that games are taking longer, not sure how long is for you, but 15minutes is not that long, and you should aim to get a big enough army by this point. Atleast at this timemark your economy should kick in. Just enjoy the new style of bronze, go battlecruisers with your new aggressive style in expanding, go 3 ghosts 3 nukes on production facilities, Im sure you can find a small way in, atleast in most games. | ||
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baconbits
United States419 Posts
four in five TL.net posters are idiots who can't comprehend a thread on observations, assuming it was a quest for advice. And yes, even bronze players do get better at playing. Some will superexceed their ladder standings, and some will stay where they are, because they are matched properly. ANd I do believe Blizzard designed all these seemingly inane leagues and visible/hidden point scoring system to let even average players notice improvement and feel ontop of their ladder and game. This is a pretty good example that its doing its job (even if some dont notice it or are unhappy how it works). | ||
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Kpyolysis32
553 Posts
On September 01 2010 15:38 Vz0 wrote: honestly I think if this guy wanted, by the time this thread gets closed, his hidden elo would probably be at silver level. he sounds like a guy thats willing to improve and thats all thats needed. sorry topic starter if any of us sound rude. I mean its like me jumping into the honda forum and saying why can't I top 200 with my 2004 civic anymore?? People (especially people that are mean) will take the change and jump on you. even though your not, i suggest you NOT to ask for help and just discover the game for yourself. The graph of your rts ability and time is not linear its more like a ... y=tan(x) where Y is your rts ability and X is time. o<x<π/2 teh start mgiht be a little slow but as you get better your ability willl shoot up until its pretty high up (diamond ish) to the point where it becomes increasingly hard to get better (thus the asymptote). ...Your ability to analyze graphs is disgusting. The asymptote does not mean that it's hard to get better at all, it actually means that, by some arbitrary time (which I guess would be whatever the time you stop playing is, because it's the right bound of the graph), your skill will converge to infinity, and in the time approaching that, you skill will skyrocket at unimaginable speeds. If you were to change the graph's bounds to -π/2<x<π/2, rotate it 90 degrees clockwise, and then reflect it over the x-axis (Postin' from a phone, so I can't do this in Paint or anything), it would actually represent what you said. This brings me to my next point: I think that what you said is also false. Between leaving Bronze and getting into Diamond, I don't believe there's any increase in your rate of improvement, it seems like it stays approximately constant. | ||
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ultimateq
United States114 Posts
If you do practice against a harder difficulty computer, I suggest you be careful. Because bad habits can form; like turtling, not scouting because the computer's strategy is predictable, 1 basing, and other things. That's not to say that those things are bad, in certain situations they are appropriate, but for your general SC2 career they can be bad habits to get into. Remember to always be producing workers, don't stare at battles too long and keep macroing, and be very cautious of your supply level, because getting supply blocked can cost you games. User was warned for this post | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
I don't think turtling counts as "competent macro", unless "competent" means "makes more than 10 SCVs". As to map trends, some maps (Scrap Station, Desert Oasis) are designed to make players go air, because moving out ground forces leaves your base vulnerable. The issue here is that you should not be losing. You're not as aggressive as you think you are, or you wouldn't be in Bronze. None of your games need to take more than 10 minutes, there is no way a bronze player who's teching and turtling on one base, not scouting or harassing, will counter a stim timing push or a banshee rush. How much "turtling" can you really do in the first ten minutes? You can protect against cheese, sure, but if all you're looking for out of this game is proxy rushing then you either have to become really really good at your timing and micro or face the fact that people will either learn to defend against this or quit playing. Rather than developing good "skills", I have noticed that people are starting to customize their play to the map they are on. There is very little scouting, just defensive builds that have a good chance of success on a particular map. This is just a weird thing to say. If their goal is to stay alive, having a good defensive build for the map they're on is most certainly a good skill. But this is why you shouldn't be in Bronze - you're supposedly aggressive and your enemies are predictable. If most every zerg on Scrap Station is spamming spine crawlers against terran, then wall off with a rax and a factory and spam banshees for attacking and rines for counterattack defense and win. EDIT: what's with all the warnings? I mean, the OP isn't really providing some amazing insight into Bronze. People are in Bronze because they're doing it wrong or they're brand new. It's perfectly reasonable to suggest that the OP stops doing it wrong, because Bronze is certainly not going to change, except that most players actually do get out of there, if they keep playing said league at all. | ||
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Rokk
United States425 Posts
On September 01 2010 16:37 kojinshugi wrote: EDIT: what's with all the warnings? I mean, the OP isn't really providing some amazing insight into Bronze. People are in Bronze because they're doing it wrong or they're brand new. It's perfectly reasonable to suggest that the OP stops doing it wrong, because Bronze is certainly not going to change, except that most players actually do get out of there, if they keep playing said league at all. Because he's not asking for advice. He's just giving his observations in how gameplay in the bronze league has evolved since the beginning of the game. It's pretty clear that anyone giving him advice hasn't actually read the OP in its entirety. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On September 01 2010 16:50 Rokk wrote:Because he's not asking for advice. He's just giving his observations in how gameplay in the bronze league has evolved since the beginning of the game. It's pretty clear that anyone giving him advice hasn't actually read the OP in its entirety. Actually he's not "just giving observations". He's also complaining about the game not being fun because people are doing this. See: This creates a problem for me as a player who likes to rush, sieze an advantage and then keep pushing. It seems that the game is now more about macro and patience, no one is willing to take any risks, just mass a big blob and wait. I really hate the fact that games are taking longer. Maybe it's you who didn't read the entire post, as that part is close to the end? Anyway, what is the observation? People who have played 150 games are learning basic defensive strategies? That's kind of obvious. The real question is "why are they still in Bronze?". EDIT: and that question is not elitism. It's a perfectly legitimate question to ask - why are these players, who are clearly not newbies, not succeeding? | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On September 01 2010 16:50 Rokk wrote: Because he's not asking for advice. He's just giving his observations in how gameplay in the bronze league has evolved since the beginning of the game. It's pretty clear that anyone giving him advice hasn't actually read the OP in its entirety. Just because he hasn't asked for advice does't mean you can't give it. TLer's see someone in bronze and just want to help. The whole site is pretty much about getting better at SC. | ||
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GoDannY
Germany442 Posts
Thanks for the insight! | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On September 01 2010 16:58 GoDannY wrote: Actually, the OP has an interesting point - since if you have ever seen the statistics platinum and diamond divisons only fill if I remember correctly 10-15% of the total player count- so bronze league is huuuuge and as a diamond player you wont notice much of it, wont you? Thanks for the insight! There are leagues between bronze and platinum, you know. There are more silver and gold players combined than there are bronze. There's one platinum player for every 3 bronze, it's not some massive majority. EDIT: checked the numbers, and the distribution is as follows: Bronze - 38% Silver - 21% Gold - 20% Plat - 15% Diamond - 6% | ||
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Kimaker
United States2131 Posts
There are SO many warnings in this thread, I don't think I've ever see that many before. On topic, your post displayed some serious insight and observation on your part, and it's actually something I've noticed as well whenever I play my bronze friends, but never quite registered before as an underlying theme (thx). I feel like it's just a lack of confidence in their own decision making, and it's so easy to just make photon cannons and "forget" about them, instead of having to control your defenses that contributes to this. If this is how they're playing you should take advantage of the themes and get that macro up  Turn a disfavorable situation into a chance to improve so that when you move up, you'll have shored up your weaknesses a bit. | ||
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Mo_oN
Germany82 Posts
Which is probably not the true^^ Cause every other post iread in the last days started with Hello im a semi good mid level diamond player ^^ just kidding thx for the insight on whats going on where the "newer or people with bad luck in placemtmatches" player battle it out. I wish you good luck with your journey to silver | ||
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