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On September 09 2010 13:15 me_viet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 05:15 TheYango wrote:On September 07 2010 04:34 mierin wrote:On September 07 2010 04:20 JudoChopper wrote:On September 07 2010 04:11 RinconH wrote:
Maybe Blizzard isn't nerfing Mauraders because it would ruin balance in single player?
Marauders ARE nerfed in single player, they don't have stim... I hadn't thought about that, apparently too OP for single player, but fair game multi. Marauder Concussive Shells also apply an AoE slow in single-player. THAT would be extremely OP in multiplayer. I'd rather the Marauder has AOE slow like in multiplayer rather than stim. That's what makes it too OP imo. You'll never be able to run away from a Marauder army with stim. As of now, Marauders can be used as tanking units, DPS dealer to Armour as well as chasing down fleeing army. It does it well at all of these roles. It even has a relatively long range too.
AND Stim does way too less DMG to a Marauder-Army. I mean, would you have been able to abuse Stim in a Army-VS-Army Battle in SCBW without Medics around? HELL NO!
In SC2, stimming 1-2 times without any Medivac to heal you up is absolutely no problem.
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On September 09 2010 13:15 me_viet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 05:15 TheYango wrote:On September 07 2010 04:34 mierin wrote:On September 07 2010 04:20 JudoChopper wrote:On September 07 2010 04:11 RinconH wrote:
Maybe Blizzard isn't nerfing Mauraders because it would ruin balance in single player?
Marauders ARE nerfed in single player, they don't have stim... I hadn't thought about that, apparently too OP for single player, but fair game multi. Marauder Concussive Shells also apply an AoE slow in single-player. THAT would be extremely OP in multiplayer. I'd rather the Marauder has AOE slow like in multiplayer rather than stim. That's what makes it too OP imo. You'll never be able to run away from a Marauder army with stim. As of now, Marauders can be used as tanking units, DPS dealer to Armour as well as chasing down fleeing army. It does it well at all of these roles. It even has a relatively long range too.
they also can be used for blowing up ur nexuses/hatches in under 20 seconds.
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On September 09 2010 13:26 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 13:15 me_viet wrote:On September 07 2010 05:15 TheYango wrote:On September 07 2010 04:34 mierin wrote:On September 07 2010 04:20 JudoChopper wrote:On September 07 2010 04:11 RinconH wrote:
Maybe Blizzard isn't nerfing Mauraders because it would ruin balance in single player?
Marauders ARE nerfed in single player, they don't have stim... I hadn't thought about that, apparently too OP for single player, but fair game multi. Marauder Concussive Shells also apply an AoE slow in single-player. THAT would be extremely OP in multiplayer. I'd rather the Marauder has AOE slow like in multiplayer rather than stim. That's what makes it too OP imo. You'll never be able to run away from a Marauder army with stim. As of now, Marauders can be used as tanking units, DPS dealer to Armour as well as chasing down fleeing army. It does it well at all of these roles. It even has a relatively long range too. they also can be used for blowing up ur nexuses/hatches in under 20 seconds.
Stalker can attack both air and ground... and they have blink.
Roaches can move/regen underground.
Marauder have stim and slow... stim hurt the unit.
stalker/roach can regen hp/shield, marauder need another unit to heal it.
It was like that during the beta and they didnt change it... pretty sure stim gonna stay.
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On September 09 2010 13:37 MegaBUD wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 13:26 Sfydjklm wrote:On September 09 2010 13:15 me_viet wrote:On September 07 2010 05:15 TheYango wrote:On September 07 2010 04:34 mierin wrote:On September 07 2010 04:20 JudoChopper wrote:On September 07 2010 04:11 RinconH wrote:
Maybe Blizzard isn't nerfing Mauraders because it would ruin balance in single player?
Marauders ARE nerfed in single player, they don't have stim... I hadn't thought about that, apparently too OP for single player, but fair game multi. Marauder Concussive Shells also apply an AoE slow in single-player. THAT would be extremely OP in multiplayer. I'd rather the Marauder has AOE slow like in multiplayer rather than stim. That's what makes it too OP imo. You'll never be able to run away from a Marauder army with stim. As of now, Marauders can be used as tanking units, DPS dealer to Armour as well as chasing down fleeing army. It does it well at all of these roles. It even has a relatively long range too. they also can be used for blowing up ur nexuses/hatches in under 20 seconds. Stalker can attack both air and ground... and they have blink. Roaches can move/regen underground. Marauder have stim and slow... stim hurt the unit. stalker/roach can regen hp/shield, marauder need another unit to heal it. It was like that during the beta and they didnt change it... pretty sure stim gonna stay.
Heres the problem, stim on a Marine is a big deal. Their comparatively low HP means that stim actually matters when it's used on them HP wise until medivacs come into play. Marauders don't really have this issue.
Stim wouldn't be such a huge deal if it didn't turn a slow tank like unit into a god damn squirrel on crack that DEMOLISHES buildings so fast you pretty much can't prevent them from doing so. With stim they can kite so easily as well, it's just a huge stack of things and how well Stim synergies with their slow and their +damage vs armored.
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On September 09 2010 13:26 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 13:15 me_viet wrote:On September 07 2010 05:15 TheYango wrote:On September 07 2010 04:34 mierin wrote:On September 07 2010 04:20 JudoChopper wrote:On September 07 2010 04:11 RinconH wrote:
Maybe Blizzard isn't nerfing Mauraders because it would ruin balance in single player?
Marauders ARE nerfed in single player, they don't have stim... I hadn't thought about that, apparently too OP for single player, but fair game multi. Marauder Concussive Shells also apply an AoE slow in single-player. THAT would be extremely OP in multiplayer. I'd rather the Marauder has AOE slow like in multiplayer rather than stim. That's what makes it too OP imo. You'll never be able to run away from a Marauder army with stim. As of now, Marauders can be used as tanking units, DPS dealer to Armour as well as chasing down fleeing army. It does it well at all of these roles. It even has a relatively long range too. they also can be used for blowing up ur nexuses/hatches in under 20 seconds.
Under 20 seconds? Try under 5!
Srsly, what's up with Terran Units tearing down Buildings like crazy...
Here I am spending all my ressources defending reapers and teching to Liar - putting up my spire in my base and then 6-10 Reapers jump in AND KILL THE SPIRE IN LIKE 5 SECONDS?
Reapers and Marauders also make Structural defense obsolete. Really, with that much additional DMG and all the cliff-hopping, Spine crawlers could have range10 and still be underpowered!
Get rid of Reaper and Marauder anti-building-DMG and make the Marauder have -1 Range, so Zerg can use Strucural defense at least.
I tested out how many Spine Crawlers I need to hold off a Marauder-Hellion timing-attack on Steppes, it was 10! 10 Spine Crawlers+few Zerglings/Roaches were able to fend off an early push by the Terran! 10!
10!
TEN!
Ever seen 10 Spine Crawlers on one Spot - It's hysterical!
100 Minerals for each spine crawler + 50 Minerals for the Drones + mining time = 1500+ minerals (+like 300-500 mins+a bit of gas worth of Speedlings/Roaches) to hold off like 3-4 Hellions and 10-15 Stimmed-Marauders!
THAT'S JUST PAINFUL TO LOOK AT!
I wanna punch sm1 from Blizzard in the face!
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Marauders need a range nerf. Make em 4 range for a little bit. See if people actually use other units for once.
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On September 09 2010 13:37 MegaBUD wrote:
Stalker can attack both air and ground... and they have blink.
Roaches can move/regen underground.
Marauder have stim and slow... stim hurt the unit.
stalker/roach can regen hp/shield, marauder need another unit to heal it.
It was like that during the beta and they didnt change it... pretty sure stim gonna stay.
Stop crying toss, you guys got shields, that just like getting healed amirite?
Stop crying zerg, roaches can move while burrowed and regen health, all it takes is 250/250 and 2 LAIR upgrades (oh wait actually it still fails because its an armored unit...too bad!)
I mean cmon, terran units need other units to heal them! Toss got heal-shields and zergs have roaches, what more could anyone ask for?
Marauders have to spend 20 HP to get that +50% to attack and movement speed! Cmon, its not like having medivacs completely TRIVIALIZES the stim damage or anything...
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Marauders need to get nerfed. I think removing stim or reducing base attack speed would be a good first step.
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On September 09 2010 13:22 kickinhead wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 13:15 me_viet wrote:On September 07 2010 05:15 TheYango wrote:On September 07 2010 04:34 mierin wrote:On September 07 2010 04:20 JudoChopper wrote:On September 07 2010 04:11 RinconH wrote:
Maybe Blizzard isn't nerfing Mauraders because it would ruin balance in single player?
Marauders ARE nerfed in single player, they don't have stim... I hadn't thought about that, apparently too OP for single player, but fair game multi. Marauder Concussive Shells also apply an AoE slow in single-player. THAT would be extremely OP in multiplayer. I'd rather the Marauder has AOE slow like in multiplayer rather than stim. That's what makes it too OP imo. You'll never be able to run away from a Marauder army with stim. As of now, Marauders can be used as tanking units, DPS dealer to Armour as well as chasing down fleeing army. It does it well at all of these roles. It even has a relatively long range too. AND Stim does way too less DMG to a Marauder-Army. I mean, would you have been able to abuse Stim in a Army-VS-Army Battle in SCBW without Medics around? HELL NO! In SC2, stimming 1-2 times without any Medivac to heal you up is absolutely no problem.
not really marines are 4 stims but with shields 5 stims. The marauder looses 20 health per stim which is also 6 stims. (125 total health) This all is excluding hits they take. In broodwar marines have 40 health so thats 3 stims which is half of what a marauder can take and 1 less than what the sc2 marine can take. But medics are lower on the tech path so does that little bit matter.
And not that it is relevant at all because marauders are definately better than firebats but firebats can stim 5 times with no medics.
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Wasn't the patch planned for yesterday or did I seriously misread something?
Btw, Stim needs a timer and a small boost in duration, like Stm takes 20 secs but than recharges 40 secs.
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By the way, I love how people tend to compare Marauders to Stalkers and Roaches and than forgot make it look like the Marauder is weakest... DPS Wise, Marauders are extremely strong, way stronger than Stalkers or Roaches could ever be.
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On September 09 2010 13:37 MegaBUD wrote:
Stalker can attack both air and ground... and they have blink.
Roaches can move/regen underground.
Marauder have stim and slow... stim hurt the unit.
stalker/roach can regen hp/shield, marauder need another unit to heal it.
It was like that during the beta and they didnt change it... pretty sure stim gonna stay.
stalkers can blink yes, nothing can stop that. though it requires a lengthy and expensive upgrade at the twilight council. and they have regen shields. however in a fight that wont help.
marauders get stim and slow, sure they can only attack ground units, but nothing can nullifie their stim and slow effects. and with them being remarkable easily accessable and cheap they are by far the best upgrades in the game.
roaches can burrow underground and move and heal whilst doing so. however a single observer or raven/scan. completely nulifies that effect. and the upgrades needed to do so are often not worth the benefit then the stalkers and marauders.
please dont misread this as a NERF T AND P BUFF Z. this is just as it is.
the marauder is the best of all three races tier 1.5 armoured unit. stalker second and roach last.
now heres the intersting thing.
Stalker is the most expensive, and all its upgrades will cost the most(taking into account shield armour weapons and blink)
Marauder is the second most expensive.
and roach is cheapest.
just by knowing that the way the units should work is Stalker>marauder>roach.
but that isnt the case. the question is why?
is it because stim is overpowered. many believe so. is it because conc shells, many believe so.
personally i feel its a combination of the two. and i believe a possible change that might fix that would be that stim reduces much more hp from the marauder then it already does.
but im just one person. my say means nothing to anyone but myself.
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Conc shells are fine stim is broken on marauders. You remove stim and the game changes completely (might make T a little weak vs protoss though.) It's certainly the most game changing ability for T on the strongest unit T has.
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its a lie that marauders can only attack ground units.
I have had plenty of games where i kill all terran anti air and marauders just run in and destroy every hatchery i have just because they laugh at muta dmg.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 09 2010 13:46 kickinhead wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 13:26 Sfydjklm wrote:On September 09 2010 13:15 me_viet wrote:On September 07 2010 05:15 TheYango wrote:On September 07 2010 04:34 mierin wrote:On September 07 2010 04:20 JudoChopper wrote:On September 07 2010 04:11 RinconH wrote:
Maybe Blizzard isn't nerfing Mauraders because it would ruin balance in single player?
Marauders ARE nerfed in single player, they don't have stim... I hadn't thought about that, apparently too OP for single player, but fair game multi. Marauder Concussive Shells also apply an AoE slow in single-player. THAT would be extremely OP in multiplayer. I'd rather the Marauder has AOE slow like in multiplayer rather than stim. That's what makes it too OP imo. You'll never be able to run away from a Marauder army with stim. As of now, Marauders can be used as tanking units, DPS dealer to Armour as well as chasing down fleeing army. It does it well at all of these roles. It even has a relatively long range too. they also can be used for blowing up ur nexuses/hatches in under 20 seconds. Under 20 seconds? Try under 5! Srsly, what's up with Terran Units tearing down Buildings like crazy... Here I am spending all my ressources defending reapers and teching to Liar - putting up my spire in my base and then 6-10 Reapers jump in AND KILL THE SPIRE IN LIKE 5 SECONDS? Reapers and Marauders also make Structural defense obsolete. Really, with that much additional DMG and all the cliff-hopping, Spine crawlers could have range10 and still be underpowered! Get rid of Reaper and Marauder anti-building-DMG and make the Marauder have -1 Range, so Zerg can use Strucural defense at least. I tested out how many Spine Crawlers I need to hold off a Marauder-Hellion timing-attack on Steppes, it was 10! 10 Spine Crawlers+few Zerglings/Roaches were able to fend off an early push by the Terran! 10! 10! TEN! Ever seen 10 Spine Crawlers on one Spot - It's hysterical! 100 Minerals for each spine crawler + 50 Minerals for the Drones + mining time = 1500+ minerals (+like 300-500 mins+a bit of gas worth of Speedlings/Roaches) to hold off like 3-4 Hellions and 10-15 Stimmed-Marauders! THAT'S JUST PAINFUL TO LOOK AT! I wanna punch sm1 from Blizzard in the face!
Thank you SO much for posting this. My thoughts exactly.
Played a zvt yesterday and got completely crushed by hellion+marauder push. Besides from marauder stim and their dmg to buildings, I think they should NOT hard counter roach. It's just nothing a zerg can do against marauder+hellions!
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Buildings definitely need to be stronger. +Damage to Armor that marauders and other units have should not effect buildings (except MAYBE defense buildings, but their damage should still be reduced some against them)
Then take stim away from marauders or.. reduce their attack speed + make their range shorter. Another idea would be to make their concussive shot only happen every other attack or something, or maybe a short cooldown on it to give units a chance to get away.
My 2 cents anyway
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why is blizz neglecting this?
are marauders actually not a problem?
is it internal politics? is someone going to get in trouble or lose money over this?
too proud?
oblivious?
marketing ploy to keep us talking about the game by maintaining controversy?
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On September 09 2010 16:55 dump wrote:
why is blizz neglecting this?
are marauders actually not a problem?
is it internal politics? is someone going to get in trouble or lose money over this?
too proud?
oblivious?
marketing ploy to keep us talking about the game by maintaining controversy?
Blizzard play Terran.
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One quick idea.
Maybe change the banelings attack like explode with bonus on every bio unit, that would reduce the Maraudeur's who tanks for marines and at the same time maybe reduce the bonus to avoid BL to become imba ?
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On September 09 2010 16:58 branflakes14 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 16:55 dump wrote:
why is blizz neglecting this?
are marauders actually not a problem?
is it internal politics? is someone going to get in trouble or lose money over this?
too proud?
oblivious?
marketing ploy to keep us talking about the game by maintaining controversy? Blizzard play Terran.
Browder's sons play Terran
User was warned for this post
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EPT
