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On August 28 2010 04:25 Radio.active wrote:
ok a small group of like 5 marauders are officially stronger than a group of six tanks, it'll completely break tvt in half like none other.
siege tanks will do about 35 damage plus like 10 dmg splash. While the marauders have 125 life...
stim, get in close gfg baby. im pretty sure a group of roaches could walk up to the tanks fast enough and get in close to actually kill the tanks before the roaches die. A tank should feel like a tank, that can deal a large amount of damage. now they'll feel like a over priced paper weight.
Read the fucking post. Honestly, half the people don't even read and start complaining.
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On August 28 2010 04:27 Iggyhopper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 04:25 Frack wrote:On August 28 2010 04:21 Jinsin5 wrote:
In ZvZ you can defend a 6pool with a 13 pool easily using just your drones, you even have to kill a spine crawler before it can be completed. What is so different between 6pooling in ZvZ and ZvP, can't protoss just use probes to kill the zerglings while a zealot finishes production?
You could lose probably have your probes and still be in an economical advantage, anyone care to explain this? Lings take down pylons, we need pylons for power :S no power = no gates, no gates = no retaliation Use probes to attack? Even if you get surrounded, you can tell all your probes to mine minerals and they will have no collision.
If you're building against a possible rush, your Pylon MUST be next to your narrow choke. If his 6 Zerglings get there and start nibbling on your Pylon, I'd love to see you fight Zerglings with workers in a narrow choke. Hell, it probably actually helps the Zerg. And I'm wondering if the Zealots would be blocked from attacking by the workers.
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On August 28 2010 04:25 Radio.active wrote:
ok a small group of like 5 marauders are officially stronger than a group of six tanks, it'll completely break tvt in half like none other.
siege tanks will do about 35 damage plus like 10 dmg splash. While the marauders have 125 life...
stim, get in close gfg baby. im pretty sure a group of roaches could walk up to the tanks fast enough and get in close to actually kill the tanks before the roaches die. A tank should feel like a tank, that can deal a large amount of damage. now they'll feel like a over priced paper weight.
Its 35 (50 vs armored). The patch doesn't affect pure marauder vs tank fights. Stim Marauders dominated tanks cost for cost before anyways. The main thing is that tank's won't be 1-shotting marines anymore, but tbh considering the range and splash marines are still not even close to viable for breaking a tank line. IMO this doesn't affect TvT all that much.
More so it makes hydras get raped slightly less by tanks and is a big boon for speedlot users. It allows for Z or P to actually consider breaking a tank line now! This is fantastic cause terrans can't just completely decide "this is going to be a turtle game no matter what, if you attack me you auto-lose".
Edit: besides, the main strength of the tank is the absurd range and splash damage. That hasn't changed. It doesn't actually matter all that much that tanks do 30% less damage against non-armoured units when a properly set up tank line will not even allow these units to get to the tanks without eating 15+ shots of splash damage.
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On August 28 2010 04:28 Carthage wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 04:18 Turbo.Tactics wrote:
I want to take a moment to remember all the Terrans defending Siege Tanks for beeing "perfectly fine".
I'm opening a bottle of Bordeaux now... this is the first time since the Roachincident that i feel my prayers are heard. Just a quick note that because it is patched does not mean it not was perfectly fine. It takes years to figure this stuff out. Edit: TvT mass barracks mass marines? What's the counter?
marines without stim will still get demolished by one single siege tank with a bunker at your ramp. dont see the problem there
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On August 28 2010 04:29 Frack wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 04:27 Iggyhopper wrote:On August 28 2010 04:25 Frack wrote:On August 28 2010 04:21 Jinsin5 wrote:
In ZvZ you can defend a 6pool with a 13 pool easily using just your drones, you even have to kill a spine crawler before it can be completed. What is so different between 6pooling in ZvZ and ZvP, can't protoss just use probes to kill the zerglings while a zealot finishes production?
You could lose probably have your probes and still be in an economical advantage, anyone care to explain this? Lings take down pylons, we need pylons for power :S no power = no gates, no gates = no retaliation Use probes to attack? Even if you get surrounded, you can tell all your probes to mine minerals and they will have no collision. Pull all our probes to attack the lings, which are continually reproducing at a rate of about 4 or 5 every 20 or so seconds, meaning we cant mine for zealots? The situation in zvz is different because lings build faster, its only a stop gap, zealots are also slower than lings, much easier to surround. The situations are not comparable.
wow we're still discussing 6pool because of this patch
holy christ its 3.5 real life seconds
thats the latency I get on the euro servers
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Seems to be a good patch, I don't get the Battlecruiser nerf though. Of all the units available to Terran the Battlecruiser is the one I hear the least whine about. Luckily I've been distancing myself of heavy Tank play for a while now, very curious whether this will make Tanks obsolete versus Protoss. I'm also curious how 1-1-1 builds will deal with mass marine rushes now .
It's also pretty obvious the Blizz guys have been watching IEM.
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im pretty sure i made that siege tank suggestion in the beta and got warned =(
will hydras make a comeback in TvZ?
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I would rather have zerg buffs then terran and zerg nerfs
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Well, I think it will be interesting overall. Can't wait to see it work in the ladder.
There's something interesting though: zerg won't need roaches against tanks anymore. Roaches will die with 3 shots as Hydras, and Hydra have more range e more DPS.
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On August 28 2010 04:28 Carthage wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 04:18 Turbo.Tactics wrote:
I want to take a moment to remember all the Terrans defending Siege Tanks for beeing "perfectly fine".
I'm opening a bottle of Bordeaux now... this is the first time since the Roachincident that i feel my prayers are heard. Just a quick note that because it is patched does not mean it not was perfectly fine. It takes years to figure this stuff out. Edit: TvT mass barracks mass marines? What's the counter?
Are you really going to drastically change your strategy in TvT because of a 15 damage reduction on one unit towards another unit????
That is pretty incredible man.
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On August 28 2010 04:29 Frack wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 04:27 Iggyhopper wrote:On August 28 2010 04:25 Frack wrote:On August 28 2010 04:21 Jinsin5 wrote:
In ZvZ you can defend a 6pool with a 13 pool easily using just your drones, you even have to kill a spine crawler before it can be completed. What is so different between 6pooling in ZvZ and ZvP, can't protoss just use probes to kill the zerglings while a zealot finishes production?
You could lose probably have your probes and still be in an economical advantage, anyone care to explain this? Lings take down pylons, we need pylons for power :S no power = no gates, no gates = no retaliation Use probes to attack? Even if you get surrounded, you can tell all your probes to mine minerals and they will have no collision. Pull all our probes to attack the lings, which are continually reproducing at a rate of about 4 or 5 every 20 or so seconds, meaning we cant mine for zealots? The situation in zvz is different because lings build faster, its only a stop gap, zealots are also slower than lings, much easier to surround. The situations are not comparable. Block off choke with buddings with small space for probe or zealot to fit through? Who doesn't wall off in PvZ?
If you don't lose any probes with micro [and pulling them back via harvest command], then his 6-pool failed, no matter how many minerals you can't mine due to pulling off.
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forgive me if this is a stupid question, does this mean that tanks wont be able to 1shot +0/+1 lings? O_O
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On August 28 2010 04:31 likeaboss wrote:
my big question is when
report says around 15th september
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there are more tears and whine in this thread then "IEM day 5" that had to be closed -,-' good lord
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On August 28 2010 02:13 KingRajesh wrote:
What set of light, unarmored units do Zerg have to "perform better against siege tanks"? The Zergling?.
I was just thinking that...
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On August 28 2010 04:27 Iggyhopper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 04:25 Frack wrote:On August 28 2010 04:21 Jinsin5 wrote:
In ZvZ you can defend a 6pool with a 13 pool easily using just your drones, you even have to kill a spine crawler before it can be completed. What is so different between 6pooling in ZvZ and ZvP, can't protoss just use probes to kill the zerglings while a zealot finishes production?
You could lose probably have your probes and still be in an economical advantage, anyone care to explain this? Lings take down pylons, we need pylons for power :S no power = no gates, no gates = no retaliation Use probes to attack? Even if you get surrounded, you can tell all your probes to mine minerals and they will have no collision.
ZvP, you typically build at the front door. If you are getting 6 pooled, that first 100 goes into the zeal and if you need to pull off mining, you won't have another 100 for a second zeal. Zerg can just alternate between attacking your pylon, picking stray probes and hitting your nexus and you won't be able to get them. If you don't pull off to address lings at the pylon, it will certainly go down before your zeal pops
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OMG, Thank you, Thank you. Siege tank nerf. I'm so happy right now.
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On August 28 2010 04:32 lim1017 wrote:
im pretty sure i made that siege tank suggestion in the beta and got warned =(
will hydras make a comeback in TvZ?
It's was most likely not because of the particular change to tanks but that they said pure suggestion threads were frowned upon.
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On August 28 2010 04:33 eth3n wrote:
forgive me if this is a stupid question, does this mean that tanks wont be able to 1shot +0/+1 lings? O_O
Correct. But +1 vehicle weapons means tanks will 1shot +3 armor lings so it creates an interest dynamic where getting +1 armour and attacking with lings as Z is quite powerful if you can do all of this before T gets +1 vehicle weapons.
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EPT
