The Truth About Diamond League - Page 61

On March 04 2011 13:36 WAAA wrote:


I never played on Iccup but I can see how wrong you are.. I am sure there would of been over 200 people at a B- or higher rank in any given season and Iccup had a lower competitive player base than sc2 does atm so it seems reasonable that sc2 would have more people at a higher rank higher. Just because someone was X iccup rank and is now Y sc2 rank doesnt mean that x=y although if you were to follow this logic the simple fact that there are more than 200 (I assume) people b- or higher would prove that the top 200 is "at that level". Its funny how you say " its pretty damn easy to do well in this ladder" but the fact remains there can only ever be 200 people in the top 200 and atm there are more people playing sc2 competitively...

On March 04 2011 14:00 evanthebouncy! wrote:
I think to put it this way is best:
On ICCup, Koreans are there as well.
On SC2 ladder, in NA server, there are no koreans.

So if you imagine what A rank on ICCup means...

On March 04 2011 14:00 evanthebouncy! wrote:
I think to put it this way is best:
On ICCup, Koreans are there as well.
On SC2 ladder, in NA server, there are no koreans.

So if you imagine what A rank on ICCup means...

On March 04 2011 14:12 bkrow wrote:

The skill difference between Korean and Foreign BW players is not the same as the skill difference (if any) between Korean and Foreign SC2 players.. I don't think that can be ignored..

On March 04 2011 14:09 b_unnies wrote:
Getting into Masters = D-.

On March 04 2011 14:47 ZarMulix wrote:
I probably shouldn't have but I actually get offended when I see what people think lower league players can and cannot do. Before even going into this, almost no one who hasn't recently been in a lower league has any credibility to speak about this because when's the last time they laddered in bronze, silver, gold, etc? I assume most people speak with no experience on the matter and it doesn't make sense logically either. It has been established that people in lower leauges have mainly two problems: macro and build order execution.

Since everyone on battlenet 2.0 has internet, EVERYONE playing starcraft has the ability to access sources such as TL, other strategy forums, replays of pro players, advice givers like Day[9], etc. I assume the vast majority of people who access this information is made up of people who are looking to improve and they spend most of this time researching rather than playing, which is what they would be doing if they knew how to improve (example: professional gamers).

I just recently got promoted to gold league and am playing mostly platinum players. However, I play barely once a week (maybe 3-4 games every a week on average) when I can, and spend most of my time overcoming my rustiness. I know what a build order is (in fact I know many, maybe too many), I use hotkeys, macro while microing battles, play reactively (see: zerg) and have my own distinctive play style in development. So has every player I've played from bronze to platinum and I really have no idea why people cite "a friend they introduced to the game" as a player of the average skill level of the league they're in.

The lower leagues have their share of people who don't know what they're doing, but most people I played were people who knew exactly what they were doing, but keep playing other people who also know what they're doing and therefore don't clobber the opposition. I find it curious that most people that I played in silver had 100+ apm while I noticed a dramatic drop when playing gold and platinum players (take it for what it's worth, yes there are those 400apm spammers who can barely 4gate- I played one).

The biggest problem accounting for lack of ability to win I see from lower league players is a two fold problem. One aspect is perceived knowledge and the other is lack of practice. Honestly how many of the lower league players who complain about losing have actually played more than (making up some number) 400 games? Lower league players are bombarded with ideas and strategies from the venues that they were introduced to the game in (professionals) and have simply not played enough to know first hand how these strategies come into play.
That doesn't mean a lower league player doesn't understand how things work, why things work, or can't offer insight into the game (see:human with average intelligence). I do feel that discussions about already refined strategies should respect the thoughts of those who have more experience with it more. However remember that a lower league player may very well be more intelligent than you are and simply does not spend as much time playing Starcraft (humanitarian efforts, research, con artistry).

So basically I'm just pleading for everyone to have a little more respect for lower leaguers who attempt to be part of a community. If they're here it's because they actually care to increase their knowledge and understanding of the game and I'm not a fan of the dismissal and elitism that I see sometimes. Do you play more? Certainly. Are you better at Starcraft than me? I certainly hope so or else all that effort and time was put to waste. Does that mean my opinion isn't valid because I'm not of the same ranking? That has to be decided based on more information.

On March 04 2011 14:56 chenchen wrote:


The problem is that while lower league playes CAN offer insight as to what works at their level, they can't offer insight as to what works at the highest level of play, which is the level of play that much of TL is concerned with. They simply do not have a good enough understanding of the game to offer any valuable ideas. Whatever they can point out that does happen to be useful can be pointed out by a high level player just as easily.

On March 04 2011 14:47 Kuri wrote:
I think we should just accept that SC2 and BW are completely different games and require different skill sets. You can be C+ in BW and be stuck in Diamond in SC2 (haha trust me.. i know ). BW is a little more forgiving in the sense that you can makeup for subpar tactics with good mechanics. This is also the reason why BW is a harder game. Conversely, SC2 is a game where mechanics, although still very necessary, are easy to master. Thus, SC2 focuses more on a different aspect of the game: tactics. Mistakes in BO and strategy is very unforgiving and often times it is impossible to comeback from such errors.

So if you wanna compare SC2 ranks to ICCup ranks, gotta ask yourselves the following question: Did I get to B- because I had better mechanics or was I tactically a better player. I know a B Toss player who had 90 apm... basically he wins with tactics and timings. He would be a strong SC2 player. I, on the other hand, relied on mechanics to win my games in BW. I have yet to learn about unit composition and tactics in SC2. That is probably why I'm still in Diamond.

On March 04 2011 19:24 Axeinst wrote:

You totally forget, that lower league players may watch more tournament games etc and thus have good amount of knowledge.

And intelligence plays big role here too.

On March 04 2011 19:32 Turgid wrote:

However, in my personal experience, if you understand the game at a diamond or higher level, you will play at that level. I have never encountered a silver or gold player who I felt knew a considerable amount about the game.