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On May 05 2011 02:00 Jiddra wrote:I find it amusing that djWheat can manage video calls with skype, overlays and people calling in during the show, but sotg is always fucking with that overlay. JP, time to get DjWheat on the show 
fixed, would looooooooooove to have him on, i loved when JP was co-host on WoC ^^
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Okay, obviously Idra is biased, and a lot of his remarks are inflammatory. However, Day9 did not really add anything to the conversation, and seems completely unwilling to make any sort of comment on Idra's points. I have to say, from a listener perspective, this is slightly frustrating.
Day9 obviously knows a lot about the game and does really great analysis, but he is not a competitive player and doesn't actively contribute to the meta game, other than from a strictly bystander perspective.
That being said, it could also be argued that Idra doesn't contribute anything either by making statements like "My race is broken." Statements like that seem to come from frustration, and frustration is not a good element to add into a balance discussion. But, statements like "No amount of creativity will get an Overlord past a marine" point out something specific that shows a serious weakness in Zerg. I would love to hear Day9 say something about this point other than "I don't agree with you" or continue to argue that some magic solution is out there, which might be true, but doesn't really add anything to the discussion of Zerg's scouting problems. Furthermore, Day9 admitted that the game might evolve to the point where one race isn't played anymore because of how the metagame has evolved. In my opinion, this would be terrible for esports and sc2, and if such a thing were to happen, serious changes in the game would have to be made.
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On May 05 2011 02:00 Jiddra wrote:I find it amusing that djWheat can manage video calls with skype, overlays and people calling in during the show, but sotg is always fucking with that overlay. JP, time to get a chrash course in overlay managment with Whet!
Yeah whats up with, goddam overlays. How do they work?
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On May 05 2011 01:41 dark14cs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 01:35 zs3000 wrote:On May 05 2011 01:31 dark14cs wrote:
That last SOTG made me lose respect for Sean. They should have Idra on every show and also a Terran representative. You realize Idra whole arguement was "I know everything, there's nothing else to ever know about anything ever" Your right, terrible guy. I tend to give more weight to the person who plays the game for a living rather than a professional commentator.
Really, because it seems like that's not entirely fair.
You're giving more weight to the person who says a race is the weakest and plays that race, so it's in his interest for the race to get buffed, or for everyone to attribute his defeats to the weakness of his race so he comes out looking good.
IdrA has reason to be biased.
On the other hand, the commentator you mention has nothing to gain from saying any race is weak or strong because.
I tend to consider biases.
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Had to lol when idra called imba on bw PvT. Brings back precious memories of idra getting stomped by european protosses after having spent a long time in korea, and then flaming them for being random and not playing according to korean standards.
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Can JP please in the future prevent the co-casters of the show from drinking strong alcoholic beverages? I felt as the show progressed the discussions became severly impaired due to that factor.
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Day9 made himself look like a fool on this episode as did Tyler.
Day9 tells him evidence is needed when it comes to balance talk but has ZERO points to add to a conversation about balance. This is probably because he is a figure that alot of people watch and he doesnt want to give ~30% of his viewers reason to believe balance is the reason they are losing.
At a high level I agree that zerg needs better scouting early but at a low level 100% of losses are not due to not being able to scout.
Tyler's point was just horrible and I think he knew it after incontrol and greg talked for 5 minutes.
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tyler and day9 both lost their arguments, doesn't usually happen.
was an entertaining episode regardless though
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I also don't think there has ever been an actual productive balance discussion, so why bother? Sean knows it won't lead anywhere or contribute anything. Especially when idra is there, his attitude is extremely shitty for the community in general imotbh.
You say this but you don't realize that when Tyler brought up valid points it changed Idra's thoughts and he actually agreed with Tyler on alot of them.
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On May 05 2011 02:07 SoKHo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 01:49 Tranqje wrote:On May 05 2011 01:35 zs3000 wrote:On May 05 2011 01:31 dark14cs wrote:
That last SOTG made me lose respect for Sean. They should have Idra on every show and also a Terran representative. You lost respect for a guy that just showed everyone that Idra doesn't know what he's talking about? You realize Idra whole arguement was "I know everything, there's nothing else to ever know about anything ever" You lost respect for Day9 because Idra thinks that and Day9 actually puts thought and foresight into his words? Your right, terrible guy. Are you really serious? I understand people have opinions, but for you to come here and say a player of Idra's calibre has no clue what he's talking about is stupid. seeing he doesn't have a clue, his results are based on what exactly, him being lucky rather then knowing what he's doing and understanding the game? I tought his points of it being hard to scout and early aggression being difficult were very valid atleast. And countering everything someone says with 'well, haven't figured it out yet' seems incredibly easy. Imagine nothing changes, and in 5 years time thesame problems are still there. Will you come here and say 'oops, guess i was wrong'? It's not Idra does not know what he's talking about, but he is CLEARLY BIASED... MVP says terran is the weakest race, idra says zerg is the weakest... There is bias, and I take anything Idra says with a grain of salt... His terran is the weakest race is BW was bs as well.
Ofcourse he's biased. I'm not saying he's 100% right or day9 is. in my opinion both of their opinions make sense. And i'm nowhere near a lvl where it matters to me personally, let alone comment on it.
My post was directed directly to the guy i quoted. these forum superstars stating professional player x or y doesn't have a clue irritate me to no end.
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Day[9] is like an ent (? from Lord of the Rings). Nothing is worth saying unless it takes a very, very long time.
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On May 05 2011 02:10 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 02:00 Jiddra wrote:I find it amusing that djWheat can manage video calls with skype, overlays and people calling in during the show, but sotg is always fucking with that overlay. JP, time to get a chrash course in overlay managment with Whet! Yeah whats up with, goddam overlays. How do they work?
Every time someone enters or leaves the call the preset windows for screens are changed, WoC and all of djwheats shows would have the same problem if callers kept joining and leaving, but they don't
It's not JP's fault.
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On May 05 2011 01:44 ridonkulous wrote:
you do realize that this guy to this day claims tvp in bw is imba despite of flash owning everyone with stunning 72% winrate ?
why taking him serious when u have much better sc2 players (in bw too) like mc or mvp saying totaly different things?
He only said that because Geoff put him on the spot to say which race was the weakest. In Brood War it was way more likely for the better player to win even if theoretically there was some small imbalance because of the huge amount of opportunities to come out ahead through superior mechanics and unit control.
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I think that the whole EG - Liquid debate that was going on was completely off topic and wasted ALOT of time. Like i understand why both of them were arguing, i feel it was the job of the host to move it on when it was quite clear that a issue (that ironically has nothing to do with the "state of the game") was not going to be resolved and was just wasting time. Especially since they were bantering on about getting 20k viewers and such (great achievement actually btw!) and then they waste most of the viewers time by making them listen to a stupid argument, that to be fair 80% of the viewers really didn't care about at all (80% being super generous, if anyone actually thought that argument was interesting/ thought inspiring about sc2 then please speak up).
There were a few good points brought up by IdrA and Machine, i would like to hear from machine abit more actually in future, seems super mannered guy with interesting opinions.
Great to see tasteless on, added some humour to a otherwise pretty drab episode.
Seems Wheat has provided a great alternative.
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Just like to mention that blink stalkers counter thor centric play quite nicely (with upgrades ASAP).
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You say this but you don't realize that when Tyler brought up valid points it changed Idra's thoughts and he actually agreed with Tyler on alot of them.
Agree. They both agreed about coinflips, and then both proceeded to agree that was poor game design. Idra is obviously very bias but to just disregard everything he says because of that is a disservice to the community.
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Pretty much, all that happens is...
Terrans highlight Terran problems, Protoss highlight Protoss problems, Zergs highlight Zerg problems.
And IdrA just highlights the Zerg problems as though the game is fucking broken.
Okay, Zerg has a hard time predicting early aggression? You need to be really on point with scouting, it's easy to fuck up, yada yada.
Terran has been having a ridiculous time dealing with Brood Lord, Corruptor, Infestor in the late game, particularly when mixed in with the tech switches that are available to Zerg.
You put in a shit ton of effort early game, have to be a lot better early on to survive Terran and they have to be a lot better later on from what I've seen. It's a relative balance. The way IdrA discusses it always boils down to it sounding like Zerg should never win a fucking game against a competent Terran and this is clearly not the case.
It just makes him feel like a baller when he wins, and makes it easy to brush off his losses because it's not his fault, obviously. If he's not winning 100% of the time against these foreign baddies, the game is obviously broken...
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 05 2011 02:21 adius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 01:44 ridonkulous wrote:
you do realize that this guy to this day claims tvp in bw is imba despite of flash owning everyone with stunning 72% winrate ?
why taking him serious when u have much better sc2 players (in bw too) like mc or mvp saying totaly different things? He only said that because Geoff put him on the spot to say which race was the weakest. In Brood War it was way more likely for the better player to win even if theoretically there was some small imbalance because of the huge amount of opportunities to come out ahead through superior mechanics and unit control.
No. I asked him that because I knew the answer because we discussed it before.
He tried to dodge his own answer by saying a matchup and not the race btw
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EPT
