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On May 05 2011 00:02 Uhnno wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 23:59 -_- wrote:
Just listened to SoTG. Heard the argument between Nony and Incontrol. Completely agree with Nony. Can't stand this ridiculous PR in SC2. I hope SC2 crashes so all this fucking suits get the fuck out Starcraft. Hate EG. Hate dumb sponsors. Hate stupid tournaments Hate dumb, bland posts. Hate coaching. Hate people trying to make money. Pathetic. You actually being serious? If not, great attempt to troll.
Yes, I'm serious.
On May 05 2011 00:00 Mordiford wrote:
Yeah... Money is so dumb.
Why do people even try to make it? Fucking suits.
If you want money, listen to your dad and get a real job. SC2 players are so desperate to monetize their passion its pitiful. I really can't stand these scheming losers anymore. Do what you love and the money might follow, but if you chase money by selling out, you're a loser.
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On May 05 2011 00:10 MechKing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 00:07 DukeCanada wrote:On May 04 2011 23:54 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 04 2011 23:40 DukeCanada wrote:
In regards to the argument between Incontrol and Tyler, I need to agree with Tyler. The that the EG rep posted was not "basic" or "simple". It was uninformative. Not telling the whole truth is the equivalent of lying. Especially if the message is misleading.
Im not saying Tyler reacted correctly, but the blame should be on the EG rep. How does that make any sense? Some asked where TeamLiquid was and he said they were invited but chose not to play. That's all Colbi needed to say there, there's absolutely no reason to start up some big discussion especially since his only 2 other options were to either just explain EG's side and not mention TL's side which would be a completely dick move or to explain EG's side and then also speak for TL which I don't think is the right thing to do. Colbi said what he should say there and had TL responded after Colbi's comment with something along the lines of "We were invited but due to the logistical problem's involved with us having half of our team in Korea and us not being able to come to a compromise to fix some of those issues we chose not to participate" everything would have been fine. Instead Tyler posts his aggressive statements and starts a giant flame war. No, thats wrong. The EG rep should have left no room for ambiguity. This isnt some EG fanboy talking about something he saw on the forum. This is an EG rep. Colbi needs to present the situation in a manner which benefits the EG Masters League the most. Clearly, his methodology did not work. The situation speaks for itself. If he did a good job this conversation would not be happening right now. Colbi should not need to depend on TL to explain their side. Thats just bad PR. Colbi isn't a spokesperson for liquid though. All he said was that EG invited Liquid and Liquid didn't accept. Is it up to Colbi to speak for Liquid, or is it up to someone actually connected to it?
Then EG will just have to accept the backlash that is the result of acting inconsiderate.
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On May 05 2011 00:16 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 00:02 Uhnno wrote:On May 04 2011 23:59 -_- wrote:
Just listened to SoTG. Heard the argument between Nony and Incontrol. Completely agree with Nony. Can't stand this ridiculous PR in SC2. I hope SC2 crashes so all this fucking suits get the fuck out Starcraft. Hate EG. Hate dumb sponsors. Hate stupid tournaments Hate dumb, bland posts. Hate coaching. Hate people trying to make money. Pathetic. You actually being serious? If not, great attempt to troll. Yes, I'm serious. Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 00:00 Mordiford wrote:
Yeah... Money is so dumb.
Why do people even try to make it? Fucking suits. If you want money, listen to your dad and get a real job. SC2 players are so desperate to monetize their passion its pitiful. I really can't stand these scheming losers anymore. Do what you love and the money might follow, but if you chase money by selling out, you're a loser.
They are doing what they love! Do you really think that they play SC2 8-12 hours a day just because they want money? IdrA could've went to college to study Physics, but he plays SC instead, even if there is WAY less money in the scene.
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I don't want the negativity that is being expressed about the exchanges in this last episode to give off a wrong impression.
This is, of course, super IMO but I found the Greg/Sean debate on balance to be the most captivating thing I've ever seen on SotG so far. Similarly, Geoff and Tyler getting slightly heated was not a major derail form the show, all of the information was relevant and provides a great transparancy for the community to see what is happening inside all of these occurances with players who's opinions matter.
I don't understand the disappointment with the exchanges in EP 37 because, frankly, SotG is supposed to provide a weekly sort of pulse of the community and what is going on. This past episode was phenomenal at that.
The last minute addition of Machine to the show made it just that much better. Greg should be a mainstay because he actually does provide good analysis and discussion despite his directed interest.
Nick coming on the show was completely awesome.
This was the first SotG in a while that truely felt like it was communicating the pulse of the community in a completely open way. It was very entertaining for me and a few of my friends at least.
Don't let the distaste coming from the people who don't completely understand what is being talked about discourage you from having open discussion like that in the future. For the people who do care, it is very very captivating and greatly appreciated.
Keep being awesome guys. And make Greg a pillar so he can come back every week please. <3
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This Idra discussion was really interesting. I agree every player will have frustrations with their own race but I have to say I haven't heard anyone able to express so clearly and correctly. Its difficult to argue against with whatever he said. And I also liked Nony's comment about risky play. I hope the game shifts from this because thats kinda why I have been watching far less and losing interest.
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On May 04 2011 23:59 -_- wrote:
Just listened to SoTG. Heard the argument between Nony and Incontrol. Completely agree with Nony. Can't stand this ridiculous PR in SC2. I hope SC2 crashes so all this fucking suits get the fuck out Starcraft. Hate EG. Hate dumb sponsors. Hate stupid tournaments Hate dumb, bland posts. Hate coaching. Hate people trying to make money. Pathetic.
Somewhat agree. Going too far but on the other hand probably inevitable.
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On May 05 2011 00:17 ckaren wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 00:10 MechKing wrote:On May 05 2011 00:07 DukeCanada wrote:On May 04 2011 23:54 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 04 2011 23:40 DukeCanada wrote:
In regards to the argument between Incontrol and Tyler, I need to agree with Tyler. The that the EG rep posted was not "basic" or "simple". It was uninformative. Not telling the whole truth is the equivalent of lying. Especially if the message is misleading.
Im not saying Tyler reacted correctly, but the blame should be on the EG rep. How does that make any sense? Some asked where TeamLiquid was and he said they were invited but chose not to play. That's all Colbi needed to say there, there's absolutely no reason to start up some big discussion especially since his only 2 other options were to either just explain EG's side and not mention TL's side which would be a completely dick move or to explain EG's side and then also speak for TL which I don't think is the right thing to do. Colbi said what he should say there and had TL responded after Colbi's comment with something along the lines of "We were invited but due to the logistical problem's involved with us having half of our team in Korea and us not being able to come to a compromise to fix some of those issues we chose not to participate" everything would have been fine. Instead Tyler posts his aggressive statements and starts a giant flame war. No, thats wrong. The EG rep should have left no room for ambiguity. This isnt some EG fanboy talking about something he saw on the forum. This is an EG rep. Colbi needs to present the situation in a manner which benefits the EG Masters League the most. Clearly, his methodology did not work. The situation speaks for itself. If he did a good job this conversation would not be happening right now. Colbi should not need to depend on TL to explain their side. Thats just bad PR. Colbi isn't a spokesperson for liquid though. All he said was that EG invited Liquid and Liquid didn't accept. Is it up to Colbi to speak for Liquid, or is it up to someone actually connected to it? Then EG will just have to accept the backlash that is the result of acting inconsiderate.
Alternatively Tyler could have stepped back from his post for a second and realised the tone it was bringing across and let someone better suited to explain do so.
The EG statement wasn't inconsiderate at all, it was simple facts. Honestly I have a hard time understanding why people are trying to lynch Colbi for stating a simple fact - that TL was invited and chose not to attend - when Tyler's post was nothing but facetious.
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On May 04 2011 23:49 MechKing wrote:That's all that Colbi said at first regarding the issue with Liquid. I don't understand what Tyler wants. Colbi isn't a speaker for liquid, and he probably didn't feel comfortable giving that information if TL didn't want it given out.
It's misleading, that's the problem Tyler had with it. It implies that EG asked "hey guys, do you want to play in our league" and Liquid said "nope, we don't". And really when you read that one liner post from Colbi, it's easy to assume that it's exactly what happened.
Now I don't think Tyler argued well at all, as he didn't focus on what's really important in the whole situation - which is EG insisting that the game is played on NA and claiming that they want a NA-based league, but then inviting a number of European and international teams and at the same time refusing to provide the most fair and equal playing conditions for everyone. This is just wrong on multiple levels.
Coupled with the fact that NASL and now IPL (for season 2) have a similar attitude (both insist on games being played on NA), this is a worrying trend that should definitely be addressed.
If you're INVITING international teams and players, you should feel OBLIGATED as the organizer (to both players and the community) to do whatever it takes to make sure that ANY 2 players in your competition are on equal footing when they play their game. If you're not prepared to do this for whatever reason, then be fair and don't invite the players and teams you can't provide these conditions for.
This way, EG Masters (as well as NASL and IPL which should receive the same amount of criticism for this) get all the significant benefits from having star players and teams from overseas, but really give them nothing in return except a "chance" to compete at a disadvantage compared to "home" players. I'd like to see anyone argue that this is actually a fair treatment.
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Day9 for part of the discussion was talking about balance in a different way than we commonly understand it to be in SC2. When he was talking about reaching an equilibrium he was saying that nothing is imbalanced because ultimately people will figure out the better way to do things and then it just comes down to execution. To give an example someone alluded to earlier, he is saying something like, "If zerglings are ridiculously strong and make it impossible for the other races to win, every pro will switch to zerg, use a zergling focused strat, and whoever can execute that the best will win, so there is no imbalance."
This view is not productive at all. When we talk about balance in SC2 we are talking about the best player having the best chance to win REGARDLESS of their race. So it is in a sense combining balance with game design. Day 9 doesn't want to have that discussion. If you want to combat Idra you need to debate one of his initial assumptions, not what "balance" means in SC2.
Idra posited two things:
1. In order to give the better player the best chance to win you either need to be able to scout effectively early in the game or if you are not able to do so be able to blind counter anything it is not possible to scout with a safe build that does not leave you behind until you have the ability to scout again.
2. Zerg cannot do either of those things.
If you want to debate Idra attack one of those; once you admit both are true you essentially have to agree with him. How Sean responded is unproductive.
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On May 05 2011 00:16 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 00:02 Uhnno wrote:On May 04 2011 23:59 -_- wrote:
Just listened to SoTG. Heard the argument between Nony and Incontrol. Completely agree with Nony. Can't stand this ridiculous PR in SC2. I hope SC2 crashes so all this fucking suits get the fuck out Starcraft. Hate EG. Hate dumb sponsors. Hate stupid tournaments Hate dumb, bland posts. Hate coaching. Hate people trying to make money. Pathetic. You actually being serious? If not, great attempt to troll. Yes, I'm serious. Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 00:00 Mordiford wrote:
Yeah... Money is so dumb.
Why do people even try to make it? Fucking suits. If you want money, listen to your dad and get a real job. SC2 players are so desperate to monetize their passion its pitiful. I really can't stand these scheming losers anymore. Do what you love and the money might follow, but if you chase money by selling out, you're a loser.
This just in. -_- posts his opinions as if they are facts!
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On May 05 2011 00:07 DukeCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 23:54 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 04 2011 23:40 DukeCanada wrote:
In regards to the argument between Incontrol and Tyler, I need to agree with Tyler. The that the EG rep posted was not "basic" or "simple". It was uninformative. Not telling the whole truth is the equivalent of lying. Especially if the message is misleading.
Im not saying Tyler reacted correctly, but the blame should be on the EG rep. How does that make any sense? Some asked where TeamLiquid was and he said they were invited but chose not to play. That's all Colbi needed to say there, there's absolutely no reason to start up some big discussion especially since his only 2 other options were to either just explain EG's side and not mention TL's side which would be a completely dick move or to explain EG's side and then also speak for TL which I don't think is the right thing to do. Colbi said what he should say there and had TL responded after Colbi's comment with something along the lines of "We were invited but due to the logistical problem's involved with us having half of our team in Korea and us not being able to come to a compromise to fix some of those issues we chose not to participate" everything would have been fine. Instead Tyler posts his aggressive statements and starts a giant flame war. No, thats wrong. The EG rep should have left no room for ambiguity. This isnt some EG fanboy talking about something he saw on the forum. This is an EG rep. Colbi needs to present the situation in a manner which benefits the EG Masters League the most. Clearly, his methodology did not work. The situation speaks for itself. If he did a good job this conversation would not be happening right now. Colbi should not need to depend on TL to explain their side. Thats just bad PR.
You're right the situation does speak for itself. Colbi presented a neutral statement since he shouldn't be speaking for TL and only presenting EG's side would be a terrible move as well and instead of saying something productive Tyler proceeded to start a flame war.
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On May 05 2011 00:23 Duravi wrote:
1. In order to give the better player the best chance to win you either need to be able to scout effectively early in the game or if you are not able to do so be able to blind counter anything it is not possible to scout with a safe build that does not leave you behind until you have the ability to scout again.
2. Zerg cannot do either of those things.
If you want to debate Idra attack one of those; once you admit both are true you essentially have to agree with him. How Sean responded is unproductive.
Firstly, you don't know that Zerg can do neither of those things. The game is not figured out.
Secondly, I don't think a safe build (that is, a build safe against every allin), should not leave you behind. It most certainly should leave you behind. That's the price you pay for safety.
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On May 05 2011 00:18 MechKing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 00:16 -_- wrote:On May 05 2011 00:02 Uhnno wrote:On May 04 2011 23:59 -_- wrote:
Just listened to SoTG. Heard the argument between Nony and Incontrol. Completely agree with Nony. Can't stand this ridiculous PR in SC2. I hope SC2 crashes so all this fucking suits get the fuck out Starcraft. Hate EG. Hate dumb sponsors. Hate stupid tournaments Hate dumb, bland posts. Hate coaching. Hate people trying to make money. Pathetic. You actually being serious? If not, great attempt to troll. Yes, I'm serious. On May 05 2011 00:00 Mordiford wrote:
Yeah... Money is so dumb.
Why do people even try to make it? Fucking suits. If you want money, listen to your dad and get a real job. SC2 players are so desperate to monetize their passion its pitiful. I really can't stand these scheming losers anymore. Do what you love and the money might follow, but if you chase money by selling out, you're a loser. They are doing what they love! Do you really think that they play SC2 8-12 hours a day just because they want money? IdrA could've went to college to study Physics, but he plays SC instead, even if there is WAY less money in the scene.
Dang, can't think of how to word this, nm.
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On May 05 2011 00:16 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 00:02 Uhnno wrote:On May 04 2011 23:59 -_- wrote:
Just listened to SoTG. Heard the argument between Nony and Incontrol. Completely agree with Nony. Can't stand this ridiculous PR in SC2. I hope SC2 crashes so all this fucking suits get the fuck out Starcraft. Hate EG. Hate dumb sponsors. Hate stupid tournaments Hate dumb, bland posts. Hate coaching. Hate people trying to make money. Pathetic. You actually being serious? If not, great attempt to troll. Yes, I'm serious. Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 00:00 Mordiford wrote:
Yeah... Money is so dumb.
Why do people even try to make it? Fucking suits. If you want money, listen to your dad and get a real job. SC2 players are so desperate to monetize their passion its pitiful. I really can't stand these scheming losers anymore. Do what you love and the money might follow, but if you chase money by selling out, you're a loser.
People are losers for wanting to make a living doing what they love? Yeah, you're right. Jobs should be things that we hate.
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On May 05 2011 00:26 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 00:23 Duravi wrote:
1. In order to give the better player the best chance to win you either need to be able to scout effectively early in the game or if you are not able to do so be able to blind counter anything it is not possible to scout with a safe build that does not leave you behind until you have the ability to scout again.
2. Zerg cannot do either of those things.
If you want to debate Idra attack one of those; once you admit both are true you essentially have to agree with him. How Sean responded is unproductive. Firstly, you don't know that Zerg can do neither of those things. The game is not figured out. Secondly, I don't think a safe build (that is, a build safe against every allin), should not leave you behind. It most certainly should leave you behind. That's the price you pay for safety.
Protoss and Terran can play safely up until the point that they can scout without falling behind economically against a zerg. It is not that difficult to nullify zerg aggression early game.
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On May 05 2011 00:22 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 23:49 MechKing wrote:Liquid was invited, but chose not to participate. That's all that Colbi said at first regarding the issue with Liquid. I don't understand what Tyler wants. Colbi isn't a speaker for liquid, and he probably didn't feel comfortable giving that information if TL didn't want it given out. It's misleading, that's the problem Tyler had with it. It implies that EG asked "hey guys, do you want to play in our league" and Liquid said "nope, we don't". And really when you read that one liner post from Colbi, it's easy to assume that it's exactly what happened. Now I don't think Tyler argued well at all, as he didn't focus on what's really important in the whole situation - which is EG insisting that the game is played on NA and claiming that they want a NA-based league, but then inviting a number of European and international teams and at the same time refusing to provide the most fair and equal playing conditions for everyone. This is just wrong on multiple levels. Coupled with the fact that NASL and now IPL (for season 2) have a similar attitude (both insist on games being played on NA), this is a worrying trend that should definitely be addressed. If you're INVITING international teams and players, you should feel OBLIGATED as the organizer (to both players and the community) to do whatever it takes to make sure that ANY 2 players in your competition are on equal footing when they play their game. If you're not prepared to do this for whatever reason, then be fair and don't invite the players and teams you can't provide these conditions for. This way, EG Masters (as well as NASL and IPL which should receive the same amount of criticism for this) get all the significant benefits from having star players and teams from overseas, but really give them nothing in return except a "chance" to compete at a disadvantage compared to "home" players. I'd like to see anyone argue that this is actually a fair treatment.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. Colbi stated facts. That's it. He didn't go into some in-depth response, sure, but he told people that Liquid wouldn't be competing. If people want to know why, talk to the Liquid guys.
I do agree, however, to the server issue. I think most leagues should try to equalize the lag between two players. It isn't fair to teams from EU or KR to have a disadvantage when they are the "guests" of the league. EG is the "host" and they should try to accommodate other teams if they want them competing. If they want to play it on the NA server, only invite NA teams imo.
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Tyler, I heard what you had to say on SOTG. You are still a hell lot better than all those EG guys combined. Gogo Tyler!
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On May 05 2011 00:32 pHelix Equilibria wrote:
Tyler, I heard what you had to say on SOTG. You are still a hell lot better than all those EG guys combined. Gogo Tyler!
...lol
:/
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People should take the balance bullshit elsewhere. This was the best SOTG I have seen, Tasteless coming on was awesome. KEEP DOING THIS JP! You should get a subscription thing like Day9 has done.
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On May 05 2011 00:28 Scribble wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 00:16 -_- wrote:On May 05 2011 00:02 Uhnno wrote:On May 04 2011 23:59 -_- wrote:
Just listened to SoTG. Heard the argument between Nony and Incontrol. Completely agree with Nony. Can't stand this ridiculous PR in SC2. I hope SC2 crashes so all this fucking suits get the fuck out Starcraft. Hate EG. Hate dumb sponsors. Hate stupid tournaments Hate dumb, bland posts. Hate coaching. Hate people trying to make money. Pathetic. You actually being serious? If not, great attempt to troll. Yes, I'm serious. On May 05 2011 00:00 Mordiford wrote:
Yeah... Money is so dumb.
Why do people even try to make it? Fucking suits. If you want money, listen to your dad and get a real job. SC2 players are so desperate to monetize their passion its pitiful. I really can't stand these scheming losers anymore. Do what you love and the money might follow, but if you chase money by selling out, you're a loser. People are losers for wanting to make a living doing what they love? Yeah, you're right. Jobs should be things that we hate. T
If the only way you can make money is by ruining something you love so you can wring money out of it, you're a LOSER. Day9 isn't a loser. Tasteless isn't a loser. Nazgul isn't a loser. And they all make money by doing something they love. However, a whole lot of people who turned up when SC2 came out a consummate LOSERS.
As Idra would say, it will be very satisfying watching them dissapear when Halo: Modern Warfare 4: Esports Edition comes out and takes the world by storm.
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EPT
