Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 952

On May 04 2011 22:21 Leavzou wrote:


Yeah you are right, zergs have differents brain than protoss.

On May 04 2011 22:18 Leavzou wrote:


Are you freaking serious ?

Idra explained what strategy/thing are imbalanced, and you know what ? Protoss can abuse these things.

Do you seriously think zerg fear protoss because it's write "protoss" on the load screen ?

On May 04 2011 22:20 Linkirvana wrote:
Even an entire match-up is so detailed and complex that it will take plenty of time to figure out most of the action/reaction possibilities there.

Surely you do realize that specific strats were not part of the discussion? The discussion was about whether Zerg has a _FUNDAMENTAL_ disadvantage towards other races!

Holy fuck, this really isn't that complicated.

On May 04 2011 22:25 Linkirvana wrote:


Erhm, what? Are we having the same discussion? You said strategies and race are the same thing. I completely blew that out of the water and your reply to that is this? I don't even see what you're getting at.

On May 04 2011 22:02 hugman wrote:

Thank you for that contribution.
Would you care to elaborate instead of keeping all the actual arguments inside your own head?
IdrA made rational arguments, Day9 just tried to argue against the discussion as a whole

On May 04 2011 22:21 OrchidThief wrote:

Some of the stuff day9 said in that episode was completely incoherent, but I get his point that statistically you should be wary of crying imbalance too fast. His degree in math clearly makes him see the game differently than IdrA, he just doesn't seem to explain his insight very well in their discussions.

On May 04 2011 22:26 hugman wrote:


The discussion both here, and on the podcast, were being had with the implicit understanding that there's is knowledge about the previous parts of the discussion, which involved specific strats. I was replying to someone who criticized Day9's argument which is an argument that he has made several times in the past in regards to specific strategies.

On May 04 2011 22:20 gnutz wrote:

And look at Blizzards Protoss-Nerfs

oh wait


Please read his post the fullest. And think about things. Actually in a german forum i analyzed many ZvPs, told them what they could do better, how i lose my games etc. and they just didn't stop complaining. So it could be that Protosses are just getting tired...

Maybe that's also why they don't say anythng, but i think i would still find it interesting what they have trouble with. But by reading posts like yours i think it will not help to get most Zergs any more intelligent. But i think for the 2 Zergs who get something out of it it would be worth it.

On May 04 2011 22:24 Takkara wrote:
A lot of people calling Tyler arrogant are doing so seemingly because he mentioned Colbi coming to "his" forum, where the insinuation seems to be that he means Team Liquid as his forum because of his connection to Team Liquid. I sincerely believe that if Tyler was on team ROOT and the issue involved team ROOT he would have said the same things in the same way, and defended them on SotG the same way.

I really feel based on what he said that Tyler feels an ownership and veteranship on these forums that is independent of him being on the titular team. As he said towards the end of SotG, he often engages in self-destructive behavior on the forums (at least in the past), and sometimes doesn't think about how he's coming off while saying what he feels.

Tyler may well still be arrogant, but I don't think he really implied it to mean that nobody can post their business here but TL. I sincerely believe (but can't prove) that he meant it be that nobody can post their business here but the TL community.

On May 04 2011 22:28 SnuggleZhenya wrote:


I think Day9 also just thinks it isn't productive to complain about. Maybe its imbalanced, but if you are a serious pro gamer, its your job to figure out how to win games. Day9 is simply saying: Spend your time figuring out how to win games - not complaining about balance, because you are wasting your time.

On May 04 2011 22:42 MrCon wrote:
But gladly we have this imba discussion so we keep focusing on what is important.

On May 04 2011 22:10 Yaotzin wrote:

It's part of our secret conspiracy to keep Zergs down!

Seriously though, IME toss players (myself included) struggle with what they tell Zergs to do: unexpected early aggression (most Zergs play as passive as Idra), multi pronged attacks, drops, infestors. I watched Sheth's replay pack where he destroys pretty much every toss and that's how they lost too. Seems like GSL level tosses lose their games like this too.

For some reason whenever these things are mentioned they get dismissed as unviable for some reason or another. Go figure.

On May 04 2011 22:17 exog wrote:
Hmm detected hallucinations should have less threat level btw.

On May 04 2011 22:36 MrCon wrote:

Yeah, Tyler just said that he is still Tyler, and he is not in constant PR for TeamLiquid, and that basically he wouldn't spread lies or try to deceive the forumers even if his "boss" asked him.
Incontrol said that now they're "in the business" so now the forums are a public relation arena were you can say whatever bullshit you want as long as it's good for your image, because of "the greater good of esports". Incontrol has been a pillar of Liquid, hearing him talk like that just shocked me.

I'm going to close this since it's been completely derailed and is effectively useless.
Some important points.

- Teamliquid as an organization is in a very unique and interesting position being home to both its own team and the largest starcraft 2 community on the internet. We've had many long and detailed discussions about the way in which we should manage our community given the number of influencers, businesses and "competing" organizations that rely on the forums to promote themselves. I think we have found a pretty happy medium.

- The team and the the site staff/management run completely separately. The decision not to play in EG Masters was made by the players themselves. Just for naming conventions sake, internally we say "Teamliquid" when discussing the site/community and "Liquid`" for the team specifically.

- I think this thread serves as a teaching point for everyone. When speaking on behalf of an organization it's important to be 100% open or NDA everyone and i think thats what EG tried to do here. Due to the speed of the thread, Colbi replied quickly to the question but didn't realize that the "neutral" nature of his response lacked some detail and could have been misinterpreted. It was cleared up by hotbid/scoots a few pages in but its pretty easy to see that the ball was already rolling.

This was really a non-issue in the big picture, and as Scoots suggested earlier, perhaps EG will re-evaluate the server stuff next season.

Colbi please remake this OP and the discussion will be dedicated to the tournament itself and not this specific issue.