EPTOn April 14 2011 01:43 Hatorade wrote:
Like Southern California does that to you dood.
Like Southern California does that to you dood.
Day[9] is from Kansas.
Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 765
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Bear4188
United States1797 Posts
Day[9] is from Kansas. | ||
|
Thetan
240 Posts
On April 14 2011 01:29 Mailing wrote: The less units a zerg attacks with, the less overall damage you do with each attack due to speed at which they die That's not true. The smaller the armies are when you engage, the more cost effective the zerg army is. The bigger terran and protoss armies get, the scarier they are b/c of their better range and splash damage. If you can split that army up, the T/P army decreases greatly in cost-effectiveness. | ||
|
emecee
United States222 Posts
but he lives in southern california | ||
|
Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
On April 14 2011 01:29 Mailing wrote: Except the counter argument is that, against a equally skilled opponent, the constant attack/harass style does not work any better. All forms of zerg aggression are pretty simple to stop for players who scout a lot, it's why aggressive zergs will not do any better against someone like MC. The entire reason people got into the "macro style" was because of how hard it is to attack and do enough damage to justify it. The less units a zerg attacks with, the less overall damage you do with each attack due to speed at which they die As for idra vs cruncher, on terminus, take a look at morrow (?) i think, last time he tried it. Oh, a protoss scouted early with a phoenix. Bam, you just lost the game because all you have is a lot of terrible units that are not good unless they are inside the protoss base. That's not a counter argument unless you can prove that equal skill always gives the Protoss the win over zerg harass. July and Idra on Terminus 2: Morrow 1 (didn't see which map). That's a large data pool. As to zerg harass not being justified because they die fast, they run fast too you know? Mutas, speedlings, speed roaches. Losira was looking unbelievably strong with his ling counterattacks the last time I saw him play. Even if he didn't "out skill" his opponents, I think those would have been somewhat effective. Sentries might deny most harass, but if you force a toss to make more sentries or use more force fields than their build calls for, you've effectively slowed them down. How much you've slowed them down is another issue and will again require more data. | ||
|
mikesaysno
United States85 Posts
I also really love the balance discussion and hope you guys continue to talk about whatever you want and not listen to all of the people who complain about everything. | ||
|
mollify
1 Post
I remember how every Protoss player whined a ton when Saviour was doing 3 hatch mutas, every Zerg when the Bisu build came around and everyone when Boxer introduced the triple bunker rush. And as for INcontroL's rant on cheese, while true it's also true that very few will respect a player who hasn't proven his worth outside of cheesing. That's why so many people hated on Flash when he was just a no-name who cheesed Bisu instead of the incredibly skilled player he would later prove himself to be. | ||
|
Resilient
United Kingdom1431 Posts
I understand that there is time that needs to be killed but I think it's a shame that Dreamhack was basically covered in like 30 seconds, period. Then it moved on to IdrA and the state of PvP. I don't know if the hosts didn't watch it since it's an EU event, but it was definitely the topic that deserved the most coverage and discussion. It basically blew everything out of the water so far in terms of entertainment value and production. Probably would have been something positive to discuss in an episode that seemed to be depressing in a way. | ||
|
karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On April 14 2011 02:21 Resilient wrote: I think it's a bit silly to spend so much time on stuff that obviously has no merit whatsoever... like MC/Whitera rivalry (no...just no) another MLG Dallas recoup and stating how IdrA kills himself for the 50th time. I totally understand that the two last things are more interesting to the hosts since they're all heavily involved in the NA scene... but honestly, it's just not that interesting as the answers always come back the same. (MLG will do better, IdrA needs to sort his state of mind out and he'll be the best) I understand that there is time that needs to be killed but I think it's a shame that Dreamhack was basically covered in like 30 seconds, period. Then it moved on to IdrA and the state of PvP. I don't know if the hosts didn't watch it since it's an EU event, but it was definitely the topic that deserved the most coverage and discussion. It basically blew everything out of the water so far in terms of entertainment value and production. Probably would have been something positive to discuss in an episode that seemed to be depressing in a way. Yeah i'm kinda sad that they had so little to say about the tournament. I guess it's partly cause it's a eu tournament and they are all connected to other venues. D9 to TSL/MLG, JP to MLG and InControl to NASL. Dreamhack was pure awesome though. 7 rax marines, SjoW's 32 kill banshee, Morrows epic hold against MC, White-Ra being the most awesome person on the planet, great casting and overall execution. | ||
|
GriNn
United States243 Posts
On April 14 2011 02:26 karpo wrote: Yeah i'm kinda sad that they had so little to say about the tournament. I guess it's partly cause it's a eu tournament and they are all connected to other venues. D9 to TSL/MLG, JP to MLG and InControl to NASL. Dreamhack was pure awesome though. 7 rax marines, SjoW's 32 kill banshee, Morrows epic hold against MC, White-Ra being the most awesome person on the planet, great casting and overall execution. You also have to realize that it was on pretty early for us in the US. The finals were over at like noon for me, and they were the only games i caught. Must have started at like 6am. | ||
|
Zeroes
United States1102 Posts
saw this on reddit | ||
|
Nakas
United States148 Posts
On April 14 2011 02:21 Resilient wrote: I understand that there is time that needs to be killed but I think it's a shame that Dreamhack was basically covered in like 30 seconds, period. Then it moved on to IdrA and the state of PvP. I don't know if the hosts didn't watch it since it's an EU event, but it was definitely the topic that deserved the most coverage and discussion. It basically blew everything out of the water so far in terms of entertainment value and production. Probably would have been something positive to discuss in an episode that seemed to be depressing in a way. I agree. Dreamhack was a step above every other tournament I've seen in terms of entertainment value. 2GD was awesome as a host, and really gave the whole tournament a fun personality. The casters were also really good. I did cringe when Demuslim used the term "raped" though, that's one term that I really wish would fall out of favor with the starcraft community. | ||
|
Lotar
132 Posts
On April 14 2011 00:02 Tranqje wrote: I can understand the point they make that not everything has been figured out. it's most likely true. But the constant, 'just take 7 bases and go mass infestor' or 'just pop nydus worms everywhere' is getting too silly for words. I cringe everytime Day[9] talks about Zerg  Especially lately, when he fantasizes about going mass Overseer for some reason. The Nydus Worm thing ("make more of them!") reminds me of the noob strats that we could hear the pros joke about, back in the beta. Now apparently it's the door that Zergs are reluctant to open, or something. | ||
|
Noocta
France12578 Posts
Whatever you do, whataver if it has succes or not, at the end if the game is longer than 20min, you will HAVE to kill that freaking stalkers colossi ( voirdray ) army, and most of the time you can't because zerg don't have a efficient way to do it for now. Hell, i can't count how many game i saw when zerg was dominating a turtle protoss, and after protoss start to be sick of harassement , he just push and win. That happend SOOO often. I'm not saying we should all complain about ZvP and wait for blizz to do something, that wont happend, ppl will have to find something by themselves. But seriously, it's not a protoss who will find that stuff out. Just stop. | ||
|
AzurewinD
United States569 Posts
On April 14 2011 01:13 Beyonder wrote: Also, JP really kills the conversation when the conversation finally gets going and makes the conversation so superficial. He constantly asks superficial questions that do not stimulate discussion. Is this something that's on my end, or do others also feel this? Completely agree. I thought it took quite awhile to work out of the depression rut they found themselves in. After they did however, they stumbled upon a goldmine of excellent, insightful discussion on the mentality of Starcraft which I would argue we haven't seen in quite awhile on the show. Unfortunately that seemed to get cut short. I guess what I'm trying to say is: Please do the throwback show. I'd love to hear more discussion in the same vein as what went on this week. You could really tell that Tyler, Geoff, and Day[9] seemed to get this spark of inspiration followed by excellent ideas when they were discussing this. | ||
|
Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 14 2011 02:45 Noocta wrote: What is funny is that day9 and Incontrol critize zerg to stockpile money to remax roaches instead of using it for cute stuff like end game nydus or overseer ( seriously, what's day9 obcession with that ) but if don't have anything to remax quickly, you will never kill the ball. Whatever you do, whataver if it has succes or not, at the end if the game is longer than 20min, you will HAVE to kill that freaking stalkers colossi ( voirdray ) army, and most of the time you can't because zerg don't have a efficient way to do it for now. Hell, i can't count how many game i saw when zerg was dominating a turtle protoss, and after protoss start to be sick of harassement , he just push and win. That happend SOOO often. I'm not saying we should all complain about ZvP and wait for blizz to do something, that wont happend, ppl will have to find something by themselves. But seriously, it's not a protoss who will find that stuff out. Just stop. I believe there were trying to point in the direction of making your units more effective and useful instead of just stockpiling and brute forcing. You can still remax quickly and stockpile while trying to make your army more effective via nydus/drops/whatever else. I'm 100% sure these players know the exact grips you have with their suggestions and know the exact situations facing Zergs in these situations. They aren't some internet forum posters. Give them some credit | ||
|
CheAse
Canada919 Posts
| ||
|
zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On April 14 2011 02:39 Lotar wrote: I cringe everytime Day[9] talks about Zerg Especially lately, when he fantasizes about going mass Overseer for some reason. The Nydus Worm thing ("make more of them!") reminds me of the noob strats that we could hear the pros joke about, back in the beta. Now apparently it's the door that Zergs are reluctant to open, or something.i would definitely like to see day9 stream this mass infestor/overseer play on ladder, against good players. that is a lot of gas to get, and given how fragile these units are, how is he going to sustain it. | ||
|
Hatorade
299 Posts
On April 14 2011 02:34 Nakas wrote: I agree. Dreamhack was a step above every other tournament I've seen in terms of entertainment value. 2GD was awesome as a host, and really gave the whole tournament a fun personality. The casters were also really good. I did cringe when Demuslim used the term "raped" though, that's one term that I really wish would fall out of favor with the starcraft community. Tbh it JUST happened the same day sotg aired. You have to remember all of them are very busy and often catch up on tournaments through vods. Tyler and Incontrol are busy training to play themselves and Incontrol is busy with lessons/nasl as well. So as I understood they just haven't seen the majority of the games yet. That said the vibe for this show seemed a bit off, it seemed like there was a time constraint in addition to a kind of bad vibe in general. Luckily the discussion on the attitude broodwar players had and how it translates into sc2 was more uplifiting and made the show. Hopefully next week everyone will be in a better mood, everyone will have had time to catch up on some of the games, and they can talk about this weeks results without spoiling anyone  . | ||
|
smileyyy
Germany1816 Posts
On April 14 2011 02:21 Resilient wrote: I think it's a bit silly to spend so much time on stuff that obviously has no merit whatsoever... like MC/Whitera rivalry (no...just no) another MLG Dallas recoup and stating how IdrA kills himself for the 50th time. I totally understand that the two last things are more interesting to the hosts since they're all heavily involved in the NA scene... but honestly, it's just not that interesting as the answers always come back the same. (MLG will do better, IdrA needs to sort his state of mind out and he'll be the best) I understand that there is time that needs to be killed but I think it's a shame that Dreamhack was basically covered in like 30 seconds, period. Then it moved on to IdrA and the state of PvP. I don't know if the hosts didn't watch it since it's an EU event, but it was definitely the topic that deserved the most coverage and discussion. It basically blew everything out of the water so far in terms of entertainment value and production. Probably would have been something positive to discuss in an episode that seemed to be depressing in a way. Well Incontrol is in for the NASL .. JP works for MLG .. Day9 would never say anything that would put a tournament in a bad light. So what would the discussion be like... DH was awesome full hd stream no lags whatsoever yeah unlike a recent event... The production value was awesome even better than a recent rebroadcasted event...  etc etc If they were to hype DH too much which it totally deserved they would put their product in a bad spotlight. My point is they cant really give full credit to another organization since they themselves are associated to another and Day9 is just happy that E-Spooooorts is growing and lol he wants to be booked in the future too =). So he has to be pretty neutral. Just watch last week ... they sugar cotted the MLG disaster so much. My bet is if the next MLG has a working stream and there are matches actually being streamed we will have a 20min discussion how awesome the event was :D. Ah anyways you cant really blame them ... I wish they would just talk about the games and keep the tournament talk to a minimum ... | ||
|
WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On April 14 2011 01:52 JWD wrote: Huge fan here. Guys, I really loved what you had to say re: game balance not being about "I should be able to win from any situation". I hadn't thought about it before, but completely agree that this incorrect attitude is all over the place in SC2 and wasn't really seen in BW. Thanks for bringing that up. Cheer up Tyler! All you SotG guys should ignore everyone who bags on you for being critical of other players. I'd guess 99% of listeners are just thrilled to get your opinion, negative or positive. I know you are experts and that's enough for me — don't need to mine iNc or Tyler's recent record to enjoy listening to them comment about MC. This thinking is so BWish. SC2 is a game where most of the army have a better mobility, deal more damage, where most of the race can rebuild an army faster, where you can reinforce your army faster with warp gate tech and such and where having a shitload of expand does not help you. It's NOT LIKE BW. I don't understand Tyler and Inc, always referring to BW to defend a point when it's just not the same game. You just cannot play against a protoss death ball like you play against a big mech army in BW: flanking is not as easy because in most maps you just can't flank, protoss death ball has the same / a better mobility than a MMM army unstimmed, FF just "exist", it's pretty easy to control a protoss death ball while moving a mech army is... well, I can had a lot of things after that. But I agree, Tyler & Inc are still one of the best commentators out there, especially Tyler, I always learn something when he opens his mouth, but just not this time. | ||
| ||
