EPTOfficial State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 637
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Freebirdo7
United States163 Posts
| ||
|
rolfe
United Kingdom1266 Posts
On March 25 2011 05:10 blakbeard wrote: Why is playing video games nerdy? It's just the stereotype. well i know video games is stereotype of nerdiness but animal ownership? thats no stereotype i've ever heard of | ||
|
iSTime
1579 Posts
On March 25 2011 05:12 IVN wrote: And game knowledge and experience are foiled by phenomenon like cognitive dissonance, group think and personal pride, as well as conflict of interest. What you are forgetting here, that not only is in a global market (like eSports), MC a competitor, he is actually the worst kind of competitor for the 3 toss players that have commented on his style. And thats because hes the best toss at the moment. He is basically "stealing" all the attention, "fame and glory". Or let me put it this way: ever heard of a GM representative saying "wow, that new car from Toyota is awesome"? How you can defend someone who tries to argue from first principles in a game as complicated as SC2 while calling Tyler "biased" and assuming that I'm not going on a lot of my own game experience is beyond me. This guy is claiming that SC2 is going to be based on timing attacks and such because of things like the macro mechanics and the way the units are designed. Do you know what level of arrogance combined with complete obliviousness you need to have this kind of opinion? No one can possibly know that timing attacks are going to be strong a priori, yet randplaty seems to think that he can. | ||
|
DARKHYDRA
United States303 Posts
Also is there an mp3 for the preshow with artosis? | ||
|
barkles
United States285 Posts
On March 25 2011 03:41 randplaty wrote: I am trying my best not to stubbornly argue. That's why I concede that there is a distinct possibility that Tyler may very well be right. SC2 may become more macro oriented as the game progresses. I just haven't seen much convincing evidence that it will. I do value Tyler's opinion as one who has played both games professionally, but I still expect him to provide evidence beyond "that's the way it was in BW." I acknowledge that macro mechanics, unit pathing, and damage modifiers does not necessarily mean that timing attacks will be more prevalent. I admit that I have no definitive knowledge of the future of the game. I would argue that those things point towards timing attacks, but you're right, I cannot be sure. The question is, can you, or Tyler concede that he does not know with certainty that SC2 will proceed down the macro path? I'd say that the future of ANY game is difficult to predict whether or not you are a pro gamer. Could Johnny Unitas predict the advent of the West Coast offense? Could Sandy Koufax have anticipated the steroid era? Yet Tyler uses his "knowledge" of the future to determine that MC's style will not work in the future. How can he predict the future of the game like that? Especially when MC has been the most consistent pro gamer in SC2. Did I play SCBW on a "semi-serious" level? I played for 8 hours a day at one point. I was never a pro gamer. I played Warcraft 2 for 8 hours a day at one point. I played Warcraft the original quite a bit also. I always viewed Starcraft as the sequal to Warcraft 2. And Starcraft was completely different from Warcraft 2 just like Warcraft 2 was completely different from Warcraft 1. It would have been silly of me to predict the future of Starcraft based on ow Warcraft 2 played out. I know SC had damage modifiers, but not nearly to the extent that SC2 has them. But again, I don't think our "qualifications" should have much to do with the argument. I'm arguing for fun obviously. I think it's an interesting discussion. I appreciate that you disagree with me and are willing to articulate your thoughts however different they are from mine. I appreciate Tyler's thoughts and appreciate him for bringing up the subject and stimulating me to think deeper into the game. I just want to continue that discussion and have more fun diving into topic. If I'm not qualified to discuss because I'm not a progamer or have not played the game "semi-seriously" then well ... I guess that sucks for me. I was never trying to argue that you're not qualified to discuss SC2 if you're not a pro. If it sounded that way, I apologize. What I meant was that one should not expect to make assertions and expect them to be believed (like "SC2 is nothing at all like SC1") without sufficient qualifications to make that assertion believable. Talking about Starcraft is (mostly) fun, and everyone should do it more often imo  What I've been trying to argue all along is that I'm making a probabilistic statement: I'm taking some previous knowledge (SC1 strategy development) and making a prediction based on that knowledge for the future. It's mainly like a conditional expectation. The point is that the whole prediction is based on some element of randomness; so yes, I acknowledge that I could be %100 wrong about this and that SC2 could be ruined by 1 base until the end of time. However, given the evidence, I still think that the opposite (prevalent macro play) is the best assumption we can make for the future. However, I confess that I remain skeptical of your BW background; generally people that play for 8 hrs a day discover TL before Sept. 2010. And if anything, BW damage modifiers were even more severe than SC2: consider explosive damage (tanks, hydras, dragoons etc) doing on 50% damage to every small unit (marines, workers, zealots, zerglings), or concussive damage which had similarly harsh damage reduction for basically everything but small units. In any case, I appreciate you pulling this from the brink of a flame-war back to the realm of an actual discussion. | ||
|
crms
United States11933 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:51 PJA wrote: Yes, because all of your arguments are not backed by any sort of actual logic, so there's really no way for me to attack them. he brings up debatable points all the time, all you've done is resort to fallacious ad hominem attacks... | ||
|
iSTime
1579 Posts
On March 25 2011 06:08 crms wrote: he brings up debatable points all the time, all you've done is resort to fallacious ad hominem attacks... Conveniently dodging my posts that actually outlined my arguments against his absurd claims and logical leaps. In the line of debate you quoted, I pointed out that it is ridiculous to say that Tyler isn't more qualified to comment on it because he is a pro gamer. Would you argue differently? I would say that it's pretty much fact that if I know more about a topic then I am more qualified than someone else to talk about it. | ||
|
Rylune
14 Posts
If you ever end up in Phoenix (with Scoots and whoever else from EG lives there) on a Thursday where you are free you should find Imperial Outpost Games. Board games, MTG, and WH40k. Gotta show some love for your local game store! | ||
|
The Stapler
United States326 Posts
it's not worth it geoff......or is it? | ||
|
Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
I listened to the same cast as you did, and I have no idea why the fuck you guys have been arguing about the past 12 pages. Tyler and others had an opinion about the game, which is the show's entire premise. People are entitled to disagree, but I'm blown away by how pompous some of the comments are. Stop taking yourselves so seriously! This podcast and message board is supposed to be fun. Jeesus. | ||
|
Mintastic
United States166 Posts
On March 25 2011 07:08 The Stapler wrote: good job guys.....This is what you have driven him to it's not worth it geoff......or is it? Well... it WOULD cut down on the spam on the forums. | ||
|
IzieBoy
United States865 Posts
I'm trying to get replays of the tourneys though, and I have no idea which site to look on (for the good ones- i can get plently of mediocres already). And where is idra recently anyways? I want to see that impeccable macro. Although I wish he gets a little more creative, not changing units (from roach) ofc, but like using nydus a lot more often or some other support unit. | ||
|
SwiftSpear
Canada355 Posts
 | ||
|
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 25 2011 07:08 The Stapler wrote: good job guys.....This is what you have driven him to it's not worth it geoff......or is it? It was hilarious seeing him shoot and had no ammo. Haha. But why that gun? | ||
|
DARKHYDRA
United States303 Posts
On March 25 2011 06:04 barkles wrote: However, I confess that I remain skeptical of your BW background; generally people that play for 8 hrs a day discover TL before Sept. 2010. And if anything, BW damage modifiers were even more severe than SC2: consider explosive damage (tanks, hydras, dragoons etc) doing on 50% damage to every small unit (marines, workers, zealots, zerglings), or concussive damage which had similarly harsh damage reduction for basically everything but small units. In any case, I appreciate you pulling this from the brink of a flame-war back to the realm of an actual discussion. I think SC2 would benefit from bringing this back or addapting their current system to something similar where you only have light, armored and massive. Get rid of the other weird unit types such as psionic and biological. It can also have a damage penalty system for example a unit that does bonus to light would do normal damage to armored and deal less damage to massive. This would also add value to units that don't get any bonuses as they would also get no penalties. | ||
|
TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
| ||
|
BetterFasterStronger
United States604 Posts
On March 25 2011 09:15 Torte de Lini wrote: It was hilarious seeing him shoot and had no ammo. Haha. But why that gun? ooo god rofl. Remember when he said that if he was ever rich he would make people accountable for what they do / say on the internet. IS HE GETTING READY TO VISIT PolishCheesE and CombatEX? lol. | ||
|
iSTime
1579 Posts
On March 25 2011 08:10 Defacer wrote: Uhhhh guys, I listened to the same cast as you did, and I have no idea why the fuck you guys have been arguing about the past 12 pages. Tyler and others had an opinion about the game, which is the show's entire premise. People are entitled to disagree, but I'm blown away by how pompous some of the comments are. Stop taking yourselves so seriously! This podcast and message board is supposed to be fun. Jeesus. I'm enjoying myself thanks! About changing the unit types to be what they were in BW: Why would it be better to go back to a less flexible system? | ||
|
DARKHYDRA
United States303 Posts
| ||
|
iSTime
1579 Posts
On March 25 2011 10:07 DARKHYDRA wrote: less flexible? Are you seriously this retarded? A flat 50%/75%/100% and only 3 armor types is obviously less flexible than having more armor types and varying amounts of bonus damage. | ||
| ||
