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Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 2638

Forum Index > SC2 General
54608 CommentsPost a Reply
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TeeTS
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany2762 Posts
March 29 2013 15:59 GMT
#52741
Very good episode. I like the new show really much. JP has put a really good crew together with Artosis, Moonglad, Catz and this time theognis. Really good stuff!

For the widow mine problem: I think it would be a great thing just to remove the drill upgrade. I think the upgrade takes away all the disadvatages of the mines and makes them too cost efficiant.
Topdoller
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom3860 Posts
March 29 2013 16:05 GMT
#52742
Moonglade was such a boss in this episode. Excellent show JP !!
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
March 29 2013 16:15 GMT
#52743
On March 29 2013 23:41 Holy_AT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2013 22:52 blackone wrote:
On March 29 2013 22:48 Holy_AT wrote:

Summary:: Balance is not all about the pro play. I would like to have seen 10-20% suggestions on how to make the game more accessible and fun for the 90-95% of players that are not pro players. I would also like to see a discussion on how certain tactics and units change in strength considering the level of play.

That's not a balance discussion. A balance discussion talks about strenghts and weaknesses of units, unit composition and strategies, not a players incompetence to use them. If you lose to something you can't deal with it, you didn't lose because of balance. And if the solution to your losses is just "learn to play better", then it would be insane to change the entire game just so you don't have to do that. Because it is absolutely impossible to balance a game for different skill levels. As we can see with the discrepancy between Korean and foreign Terrans, it's not even easy to balance the game between different skill levels among pros.

Of course it's frustrating to lose to one base void rays in bronze, but that's something you can't prevent. As long as units have strengths and weaknesses, someone can find a strategy that exploits a certain strenth and a low level player will feel that it is imbalanced when in reality he just hasn't found the (most likely simple) solution to his problem.


Meh I think its always balanced around some kind of skill level, lets just say pro players could split marines and lings or blink stalkers and what not like an AI with 1000 APM, the game would look completely different then what you are used to see now. Units that once seemed strong would be completely useless and other units would seem very powerful.
So you see it is always based on some kind of skill level. Tactics and the strength of units do not only evolve out of the game but of the synergy of player and the game.
And I am not talking about some one base void ray kind of play, that belongs to the wol release were players were figuring out stuff, I haven't seen this level of play you describe for month or even a year.
The main reason is because the experience throughout the game has risen and most players have quit trying to do multiplayer.

I really would like to see a statistic that shows how many of the players that bought hots are playing 10-20 games per week of ranked/unkranked games (not counting custom games) and how many of the players that bought WOL have already transitioned to HOTS.
I also didnt say that it was easy or that it should be only balanced on the lower levels, all I said was that it would have been nice to also loose a few words on the situation that most players are experiencing.

So, what issues are lower levels having with balance? Pro players cant talk about low level balance because they dont know what they are going through.
PardonYou
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1360 Posts
March 29 2013 16:20 GMT
#52744
I like the consensus of the game's balance from them. Seems sort of close to balance, but they all agree to see things out. The best balance talke this show has ever had.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 29 2013 16:30 GMT
#52745
On March 30 2013 01:20 Spektor wrote:
I like the consensus of the game's balance from them. Seems sort of close to balance, but they all agree to see things out. The best balance talke this show has ever had.


Agreed, and beyond the voidray, which needs some attention vs zerg, the game seems pretty good. The only problem I see are the doom drops that terran can do if they catch another player out of position or want to roll the dice. Although it might be balanced and fair, I can see that getting super fustrating and sucking the wind right out of a lot of good games. I am not sure, but I could see that being a problem.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
MrCash
Profile Joined October 2011
United States1504 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-29 16:38:03
March 29 2013 16:35 GMT
#52746
An idea for Void Ray balance.
Have the Corruption ability also make the unit afflicted by corruption unable to cast spells AND de-activate any existing spell, without reseting the cooldown.

Thus void ray charge, turns off and cannot be activated for the duration of corruption.
Same goes for medivac boost.

I'm saying this as a Terran. Seems like a cool way to add skill to the game and provide an answer to some of the balance.
Had this thought during the conversation they had about zerg not being able to efficiently deal with void rays and Artosis thinking the corruptors should be able to deal with void rays somehow.

This might screw up other things like ghosts, sentries, hts, infestors, queens, tanks, oracles, etc.
But it seemed like an interesting idea.
macncheezeplz
Profile Joined June 2011
United States93 Posts
March 29 2013 16:51 GMT
#52747
JP said this thread was dead. It is not dead. Ummm.

I thought all the balance talk was great. Artosis is almost a required person when it comes to actual balance of SC2 these days. Both MoonGlade and TheOgnes provided the perfect balance to each other and Artosis. I hope to see more shows like this in the future.

I have one opinion to speak: Instead of nerfing Voidrays give a slight buff to Corruptors. Remove extra damage to Massive(-6) and buff base damage slightly(+4). Corruptors would deal less damage to colossus, yet with vipers I don't see this becoming a problem. It might also help the still non-existent Carrier.
UltiBahamut
Profile Joined October 2010
United States102 Posts
March 29 2013 17:03 GMT
#52748
I am a zerg player and I kind of wish that they wouldn't say nerf this nerf that. But i would rather prefer they buff zerg AA so that they can stand up to the skytoss/templar. This way it doesn't break the other match ups for Protoss, maybe allow a bit more variety in ZvZ and depending on the buff might round out zerg in ZvT as well against raven/bcs as well maybe.

"Thats Halo, Dont worry" Huk
lordsaul
Profile Joined December 2010
13 Posts
March 29 2013 17:18 GMT
#52749
On March 30 2013 01:51 macncheezeplz wrote:
JP said this thread was dead. It is not dead. Ummm.

I have one opinion to speak: Instead of nerfing Voidrays give a slight buff to Corruptors. Remove extra damage to Massive(-6) and buff base damage slightly(+4). Corruptors would deal less damage to colossus, yet with vipers I don't see this becoming a problem. It might also help the still non-existent Carrier.


My worry there is that corruptors are very dominant in the air vs terran (unless you decide to bunch them all for a couple of lucky HSMs). This might "improve" PvZ, but may affect the TvZ matchup adversely
Tuczniak
Profile Joined September 2010
1561 Posts
March 29 2013 17:55 GMT
#52750
Nice show again. Thanks.
gustoffen
Profile Joined March 2013
Canada1 Post
Last Edited: 2013-03-29 17:56:48
March 29 2013 17:56 GMT
#52751
Is it not fair to suggest they simply change the ability of void rays to affect only *mechanical* armored units? Tempests are there to deal with brood lords, and this wouldn't change any of the meta shifts that Artosis was mentioning in regards to PvP, but would stop the void rays from completely dominating corrupters, while still making them effective overall (as they always were).
InSpiReZerG
Profile Joined January 2010
United States159 Posts
March 29 2013 18:15 GMT
#52752
On March 30 2013 02:03 UltiBahamut wrote:
I am a zerg player and I kind of wish that they wouldn't say nerf this nerf that. But i would rather prefer they buff zerg AA so that they can stand up to the skytoss/templar. This way it doesn't break the other match ups for Protoss, maybe allow a bit more variety in ZvZ and depending on the buff might round out zerg in ZvT as well against raven/bcs as well maybe.



come on ulti you are way too smart to just repeat suppy's opinion. nah jk i agree doe. buff corruption against channeled abilities. game fixed.
Treacherous and impure, impious and murderous, Cadaverous yet living, dead to eyes but ever dreaming
TimENT
Profile Joined November 2012
United States1425 Posts
March 29 2013 18:51 GMT
#52753
Allow Mutalisks to hatch into Scourge (like zerglings hatching into banelings)!
Barcelona / Arsenal Fan!
hzflank
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom2991 Posts
March 29 2013 19:07 GMT
#52754
On March 30 2013 01:35 MrCash wrote:
An idea for Void Ray balance.
Have the Corruption ability also make the unit afflicted by corruption unable to cast spells AND de-activate any existing spell, without reseting the cooldown.

Thus void ray charge, turns off and cannot be activated for the duration of corruption.
Same goes for medivac boost.

I'm saying this as a Terran. Seems like a cool way to add skill to the game and provide an answer to some of the balance.
Had this thought during the conversation they had about zerg not being able to efficiently deal with void rays and Artosis thinking the corruptors should be able to deal with void rays somehow.

This might screw up other things like ghosts, sentries, hts, infestors, queens, tanks, oracles, etc.
But it seemed like an interesting idea.


I had the exact same thought. But for balance reasons I think you would need to separate spells and abilities, which would be confusing. For example, medivac boost is an ability that can be corrupted, but medivac healing is a spell that cannot be corrupted.
Lukeeze[zR]
Profile Joined February 2006
Switzerland6838 Posts
March 29 2013 19:31 GMT
#52755
On March 30 2013 01:35 MrCash wrote:
An idea for Void Ray balance.
Have the Corruption ability also make the unit afflicted by corruption unable to cast spells AND de-activate any existing spell, without reseting the cooldown.

Thus void ray charge, turns off and cannot be activated for the duration of corruption.
Same goes for medivac boost.

I'm saying this as a Terran. Seems like a cool way to add skill to the game and provide an answer to some of the balance.
Had this thought during the conversation they had about zerg not being able to efficiently deal with void rays and Artosis thinking the corruptors should be able to deal with void rays somehow.

This might screw up other things like ghosts, sentries, hts, infestors, queens, tanks, oracles, etc.
But it seemed like an interesting idea.


A bit too strong against skyterran ? Considering that 4 starports units out of 5 rely on abilities.
Terran & Potato Salad.
TigerKarl
Profile Joined November 2010
1757 Posts
March 29 2013 19:44 GMT
#52756
I found myself watching this episode just because i like the personalities, despite already losing interest in the game.
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17727 Posts
March 29 2013 19:50 GMT
#52757
On March 30 2013 02:56 gustoffen wrote:
Is it not fair to suggest they simply change the ability of void rays to affect only *mechanical* armored units? Tempests are there to deal with brood lords, and this wouldn't change any of the meta shifts that Artosis was mentioning in regards to PvP, but would stop the void rays from completely dominating corrupters, while still making them effective overall (as they always were).

I like this idea actually
"Expert" mods4ever.com
Schelim
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Austria11528 Posts
March 29 2013 22:09 GMT
#52758
great show yet again

Moonglade has really warmed up to the show and is both hilarious and well-spoken, backing it up with good arguments. he also is handsome. before the last few SotG episodes, i never knew anything about theognis aside from reading results in MLG open brackets, but he seems really cool. he already seemed a lot more comfortable than in the first episode. Artosis is the best human being in the world, not much to say there.

it was kinda awesome when Artosis just took over the hosting and nothing was heard from JP aside from the occasional chuckle lol. he's a great host, don't get me wrong, just thought that was funny and kinda cool to see the crew get along so well they don't even need a host to keep the discussion going.
TY <3 Cure <3 Inno <3 Special <3
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
March 29 2013 22:17 GMT
#52759
On March 30 2013 07:09 Schelim wrote:
great show yet again

Moonglade has really warmed up to the show and is both hilarious and well-spoken, backing it up with good arguments. he also is handsome. before the last few SotG episodes, i never knew anything about theognis aside from reading results in MLG open brackets, but he seems really cool. he already seemed a lot more comfortable than in the first episode. Artosis is the best human being in the world, not much to say there.

it was kinda awesome when Artosis just took over the hosting and nothing was heard from JP aside from the occasional chuckle lol. he's a great host, don't get me wrong, just thought that was funny and kinda cool to see the crew get along so well they don't even need a host to keep the discussion going.

JP said it in the twitch chat, something like, "this is a balance show, why would i talk, when i have Artosis"

JP knew Artosis/Theognis/Moonglade had it and made the right call in letting Artosis really direct it.
www.superbeerbrothers.com
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
March 30 2013 00:05 GMT
#52760
Great show. It was a balance talk but kept really civil and informative while throwing out solutions, couldn't ask for anything more. I enjoyed it!
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
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