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United Kingdom20282 Posts
On March 29 2013 14:56 Whitewing wrote:
I'm with artosis, bring back the old WoL void rays with speed upgrade and get rid of the charge up spell. Make them into a flying harass unit that does alright vs corrupters rather than destroying them.
Nobody wants to pay 250/150, 4 supply and 60 seconds of production time for a harass unit. If it's supply efficient against corruptors (can 2v1 them) then it's hardly good enough to be in a maxed army - it's well accepted that zerg can max long before toss and has much stronger remaxing capability, which means it has to be MORE than supply efficient for the toss to even be in the game
Oracle is 150/150, 3 supply, 50 seconds production time and even with it's devastating power (people screaming for nerfs whenever they decide games) they are underutilized outside of a few niche uses.
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After thinking about it, I feel the best way to hit Artosis' goal of nerfing the Void Ray but not ruining PVP is to reduce the void rays base damage by a fair chunk, and add +shields damage.
I'm not saying this is the ideal way to deal with it, but I think it's the only way to achieve the goal of not changing PVP.
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United Kingdom20282 Posts
reduce the void rays base damage by a fair chunk
Its pretty dangerous to reduce it too far though, void rays only do 6 damage and most protoss + some zerg units have 1 armor base before upgrades, so 5.
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On March 29 2013 15:07 Cyro wrote:Its pretty dangerous to reduce it too far though, void rays only do 6 damage and most protoss + some zerg units have 1 armor base before upgrades, so 5.
This is true, which is why their boost ability should be super important and considered.
I guess either way it doesn't really affect me, I don't use Void Rays in my PVZ as I figured they are getting nerfed (similar to Artosis sentiments I guess). My thoughts were just trying to problem solve the case of leaving PVP exactly as is and nerfing late game VR compositions in PVZ.
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United Kingdom20282 Posts
This is true, which is why their boost ability should be super important and considered
Their boost only affects armored units though, so you can get into weird situations even now where you cant touch light units because zealots for example have 1 base armor 150hp - if they have +2 ground and you dont have air ups, you do 3 damage to them, charged or not, which makes air attack neccesary, but you need a fleet beacon to get +2 - It makes zeal/archon very scary, they have so many zealots and you do not actually damage light units with void rays, archons are not armored but shoot up and hit hard so you have to vary your army quite a bit and be really careful, it's not like you can build 1 composition that universally wrecks everything
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Ty JP or should i say Tudabutt.
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theognis and moonglade is boring :<
bring back day9, idra and incontrol making controversial comments and listeners angrily quoting them in this thread and upvoting on reddit.
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Totally disagree with some of the stuff with What theognis Said... but then again im not a progamer so I can't really say my opinions are from a deeper understanding of the game, but I can say that in the lower leagues I feel the medivac boosters should cost energy cuz it sorted balances things out in PvT (but this is Only looking at PvT). Here are just some of my view points on the nerfs/changes that could be implemented and their Pros and cons.
Energy Based Medivac Boosters:
+ Show Spoiler +Con: The medivac committed to the drop will Only be used as a dropship rather than anything else, unless it had full energy. Thus, the units dropped and the energy remaining would also determine the amount of units the protoss would have to commit to defending since the medivac will have lower energy to heal. Also the distance of the drop would be reduced if the player were to opt for the boosters.
Pro: Basically Terrans can just flip off the camping HT'S that would normally just feedback and deny the drop 100%. So in a way this means the success rate of the drop is higher.
Increased Cooldown for Medivac Boosters:
+ Show Spoiler +Con: Terrans would either have to 1) Survive long enough for the cooldown to return and then Escape or 2) be prepared to use the boosters quick enough to get past defenses (but suffer to the probability that there will be a small force defending in the dropping location, thus losing a medifull of units).
Pros: Retaining energy? (there doesnt seem to be any pros. and the change would just be a straight-up nerf).
Require a tech-lab (research):
+ Show Spoiler +Con: Research time delays the drop.
pro: While the there is a tech-lab researching, any Protoss who scouts it may have to be more aware of anything else that might possibly derive from such choice: i.e. cloak banshee, ravens with extra energy (probably Cheese at that point), or a fake out and the terran is actually doing just a regular banshee Marine siege tank all-in.
Require a fusion cOre (laugh so hard, and i dont think he was serious):
+ Show Spoiler +Con: additional investments.
Pro: allows time to build up a higher medivac count, ease the transition Into BCs if needed or when the opportunity presents itself.
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I am in Diamond so there isn't much I know about balance. Just need to learn to inject more often, and make units durring fights more. Probably win me more games with that than a swarm host locust vs air change or something like that. + Show Spoiler +
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United States7483 Posts
On March 29 2013 15:03 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 14:56 Whitewing wrote:
I'm with artosis, bring back the old WoL void rays with speed upgrade and get rid of the charge up spell. Make them into a flying harass unit that does alright vs corrupters rather than destroying them. Nobody wants to pay 250/150, 4 supply and 60 seconds of production time for a harass unit. If it's supply efficient against corruptors (can 2v1 them) then it's hardly good enough to be in a maxed army - it's well accepted that zerg can max long before toss and has much stronger remaxing capability, which means it has to be MORE than supply efficient for the toss to even be in the game Oracle is 150/150, 3 supply, 50 seconds production time and even with it's devastating power (people screaming for nerfs whenever they decide games) they are underutilized outside of a few niche uses.
Old WoL version was only 3 supply, but more importantly, once you had 3-4 of them zooming around the map, you could annihilate buildings and very little could pin them down. They were great for harass, and were actually useful in PvT. They'd still be decent in the army, as they still are good vs corrupters, just not as absurdly ridiculous.
Design wise it's more useful, the unit just doesn't make any sense in its current state. What does blizzard envision people doing with it?
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easy fix would to make each booster cost HP like stimpack so it's easier to take down the medivac and repeated use is discouraged unless you're just retreating and having scvs repair again
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On March 29 2013 16:04 Gamegene wrote:
theognis and moonglade is boring :<
bring back day9, idra and incontrol making controversial comments and listeners angrily quoting them in this thread and upvoting on reddit.
couldn't disagree more. Go check out Inside the Game if you want to hear Idra and incontrol, or Day9TV for Day9.
This new SotG set-up is much better for a number of reasons. Besides, why the fuck would we want the same people saying the same things on two different shows? Ludicrous.
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On March 29 2013 16:42 RogerChillingworth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 16:04 Gamegene wrote:
theognis and moonglade is boring :<
bring back day9, idra and incontrol making controversial comments and listeners angrily quoting them in this thread and upvoting on reddit. couldn't disagree more. Go check out Inside the Game if you want to hear Idra and incontrol, or Day9TV for Day9. This new SotG set-up is much better for a number of reasons. Besides, why the fuck would we want the same people saying the same things on two different shows? Ludicrous.
because day9 doesn't argue with day9 and idra and incontrol don't argue with each other unless someone not sharing a sponsor opens a topic for discussion.
essentially there's no energy or drama on the show. it's like flat soda.
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On March 29 2013 17:07 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 16:42 RogerChillingworth wrote:On March 29 2013 16:04 Gamegene wrote:
theognis and moonglade is boring :<
bring back day9, idra and incontrol making controversial comments and listeners angrily quoting them in this thread and upvoting on reddit. couldn't disagree more. Go check out Inside the Game if you want to hear Idra and incontrol, or Day9TV for Day9. This new SotG set-up is much better for a number of reasons. Besides, why the fuck would we want the same people saying the same things on two different shows? Ludicrous. because day9 doesn't argue with day9 and idra and incontrol don't argue with each other unless someone not sharing a sponsor opens a topic for discussion. essentially there's no energy or drama on the show. it's like flat soda.
If you actually have a legit concern for the "energy level" that the current members are bringing to the show then there might be a discussion to be heard but if all you are looking for is drama then just stop watching. SOTG is way better now with how it is done now and hopefully he keeps it up!
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Absolutely. The new format is so much cleaner and the show is so much more informative. You have fewer laughs, but I'm never really bored watching the show or longing for more drama. Keep up the greatness, JP!
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amazing show so much better then with crazy drama
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i actually find it to be just as funny as before--it's just a different brand of humor. And while i love incontrol, his interruptions and random jokes do sidetrack conversations, at times, and it can get a little frustrating. much prefer these 3 dudes. it's a very welcomed departure from ITG, and the previous SotG.
also kind of funny how JP said like nothing during the last 30 minutes of the show--looked so tired and bored. Artosis to the rescuE :D
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On March 29 2013 18:09 RogerChillingworth wrote:
Artosis to the rescuE :D
Amen to that. Artosis is such a great character, I think I could watch a reality show of him gutting fish for twelve hours at a time and never get bored.
The only treat better than Artosis is Tastosis and I can't wait for the next Code S, whenever that'll be.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On March 29 2013 14:29 starslayer wrote:
its really sad to hear that mech is died at the highest level cause i havent gone bio in like a year or so and im getting so close to master oh well i guess MMMM here i come
If mech is working for you, much like it's working for me moving into Masters, why stop?
I haven't had a chance to watch the show yet, going to listen in a minute while doing my shopping but if the ognis is saying it's not working at the highest level, well that's not really going to affect the majority of us unless you play in tournaments with pro-gamers. There's GM and plenty of Masters players playing Mech on both EU and America (not sure about the other servers), but they get along fine so I'm not sure why it'd mean you or I would have to stop using it.
I really hope mech gets viable at the highest level, there's plenty of timings to be explored (2-2 tank/hellbat push off of 2 base is pretty strong against every ground composition protoss can make) but if it requires a buff to see it happen I hope it does. I just don't even watch TvP anymore because every game has been the same for the past 3 years, I only stomach it if it's someone that I like playing.
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EPT
