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On June 30 2012 03:10 Rabbitmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 22:35 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:29 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:25 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:22 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:19 Elldar wrote:
So, you had to have QXC to say what Avilo was "trying" to say because he had made poor arguments and silly examples (which was so funny that they made JP laugh), when he started to derail everything from a debate he got cut off, what a surprise. How did avilo derail the debate? I agree his arguments weren't that solid, but i think the people telling him to "shut the fuck up" are the ones derailing the debate. No, people telling him shut the fuck up were just stating the fact. Avilo was like a student that decided to teach his teacher. It was irritating and stupid. He was clearly on the show for drama only and that is what we got. Only people complaining in here are either Avilo fanboys (good thing they didn't do this to Destiny :D) or the most hardcore whiners that moved over the that Terran whine topic that was closed recently. I had never even heard of Avilo before this show. And telling a person to shut the fuck up in a debate, no matter how bad one party is doing, is both bad mannered and immature. Also i play protoss, not terran. I have a problem with this kind of behaviour, nothing else. If you look at it as a debate from equals then that is true. And if Idra said to QXC at any point to shut the fuck up I would also be here holding a pitchfork or a torch but to Avilo?! Did you listen to him at all? As I said, it was like when a teacher who obviously knows much more then you tries to teach you something and you start acting like he knows shit and you should teach him what did you expect?! Has never in your schooling years a teacher told one of his students to Shut up? Well idra isn't his teacher, nor is a top player. And i actually do consider all human beings to be equal. Strange thought, i know.
IdrA IS a top player. Especially if you compare him to Avilo. The difference in not only but skill but also (and most importantly) experience is huge. If an amateur tries to argue with an expert, it's going to be a waste of everyone's time (except for novelty/entertainment value, which is the reason he was brought on in the first place).
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Well maybe this got a bit out of proportion but I still think an apology could be in order, from JP specially.
Avilo made his case despite being pretty much ridiculed from the very beginning in a relatively orderly way. Then he gets a lot of shit and gets thrown of the show mid sentence. There was nothing in the manner Avilo showed during that show that made him deserve that and I think JP simply owes him an apology for that. No more no less.
To be ridiculed in front of an audience of, I dunno 10-20k people, when you are close to completely unknown is a pretty big deal so. By now I guess he actually earned quite a bit of fame but that is not really the point.
PS: Can we stop talking on skill level of SC2 players, it is completely irrelevant if Avilo is a bronze player. A persons skill level in SC2 dont justify any kind of behavior. Also if we want a good TvZ discussion I am not sure Idra in the first place is a suitable person. Someone like Sheth or Darkforce would both be better options.
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On June 30 2012 03:09 ChuCky.Ca wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:07 BlitzerSC wrote:
To be honest I feel that JP should have cut off IdrA instead of Avilo. I mean... saying those kinds of things in front of 10k people is not good at all, it pretty much ruined the show for me. I don't give a shit about " Idra being Idra " , that guys shouldn't get away with things like that. I also love how biased some people are.
For example, if Nani would have said the same thing we would have a topic about it FULL of people talking trash on him, but with IdrA it doesn't happens. Go figure ^^
<3 SC2 community, always coherent. did you even watch the episode seems like you missed so much...
Uhm, yes ? The only difference between me and you is that i see things from an objective point of view since i dislike both of them. The thing I saw was that IdrA got interrupted once and then he started talking about how bad Avilo is, that he should STFU ecc. OH RIGHT, if you pay attention there were people LAUGHING in the background (except QXC which seems the only civil guy in there). That's not what i call RESPECT.
You don't call a guy just to make fun of the way he talks or about his opinions. THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO SAY THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH SOMEONE WITHOUT DROPPING THE F-BOMB OR HUMILATING HIM IN FRONT OF 10K PEOPLE.
Childs, that's what the sotg people are ( except a few ), and i'm done now since most of the people here are so blind that support everything pro players do. I have my opinions, you have yours. Probably neither me or you will change that. Peace.
edit: stop saying that IdrA is a top player. Truth is that he is at the same level as Avilo. They both didn't win anything
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... what the fuck did I just listen to.
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On June 30 2012 03:07 BlitzerSC wrote:
To be honest I feel that JP should have cut off IdrA instead of Avilo. I mean... saying those kinds of things in front of 10k people is not good at all, it pretty much ruined the show for me. I don't give a shit about " Idra being Idra " , that guys shouldn't get away with things like that. I also love how biased some people are.
For example, if Nani would have said the same thing we would have a topic about it FULL of people talking trash on him, but with IdrA it doesn't happens. Go figure ^^
<3 SC2 community, always coherent.
Being passive agressive is just as bad as calling someone a horrible player to their face. Avilo twisted every one of Idras points in an effort to strenght his own argument. That is super annoying and leaves Idra with two choices. A: Put up with it and to cut through the passive agressive non-sense or B: Blow up and call him out on it, but risk everyone seeing you as a jerk.
Personally I like the second route. Passive agressiveness is super annoying and a horrible way to have a discussion.
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On June 30 2012 03:13 MichaelDonovan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:10 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:35 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:29 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:25 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:22 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:19 Elldar wrote:
So, you had to have QXC to say what Avilo was "trying" to say because he had made poor arguments and silly examples (which was so funny that they made JP laugh), when he started to derail everything from a debate he got cut off, what a surprise. How did avilo derail the debate? I agree his arguments weren't that solid, but i think the people telling him to "shut the fuck up" are the ones derailing the debate. No, people telling him shut the fuck up were just stating the fact. Avilo was like a student that decided to teach his teacher. It was irritating and stupid. He was clearly on the show for drama only and that is what we got. Only people complaining in here are either Avilo fanboys (good thing they didn't do this to Destiny :D) or the most hardcore whiners that moved over the that Terran whine topic that was closed recently. I had never even heard of Avilo before this show. And telling a person to shut the fuck up in a debate, no matter how bad one party is doing, is both bad mannered and immature. Also i play protoss, not terran. I have a problem with this kind of behaviour, nothing else. If you look at it as a debate from equals then that is true. And if Idra said to QXC at any point to shut the fuck up I would also be here holding a pitchfork or a torch but to Avilo?! Did you listen to him at all? As I said, it was like when a teacher who obviously knows much more then you tries to teach you something and you start acting like he knows shit and you should teach him what did you expect?! Has never in your schooling years a teacher told one of his students to Shut up? Well idra isn't his teacher, nor is a top player. And i actually do consider all human beings to be equal. Strange thought, i know. IdrA IS a top player. Especially if you compare him to Avilo. The difference in not only but skill but also (and most importantly) experience is huge. If an amateur tries to argue with an expert, it's going to be a waste of everyone's time (except for novelty/entertainment value, which is the reason he was brought on in the first place).
Well since ive never seen Avilo play i will agree that Idra is most likely alot better than him. But calling Idra a "top" player, is very very far from the truth. Sure, he was a top foreigner in BW, if not THE top foreigner. But not in sc2 mate.
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On June 30 2012 02:46 Bommes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 02:42 Femari wrote:On June 30 2012 02:39 Bommes wrote:
Can't believe people are calling this bullying, thats just mean towards children who are really bullied and no one is helping them.
Avilo is an adult human being and they had a discussion over the INTERNET. Saying that it is bullying is just attention whoring and some people drooling because they can't wait to get their pitchforks out again. The law would entirely disagree with you. Well, have fun finding a lawyer who agrees that Avilo got bullied. I'm no lawyer or anything, but hanging up on someone on a phone is none of my known definitions on bullying.
You could find one easily. I mean he shouldn't press charges or anything but a lot of lawyers would agree that it's bullying.
Also I'm not talking about him being booted. I'm talking about the constant insults and put downs. That is considered bullying. Always has been. I don't think that point matters cause I'm sure Avilo can handle himself but that is still bullying by definition.
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Honestly, I just feel bad for idra. He clearly knew what would happen before it did, made it obvious he didn't want to do it, got annoyed while he did it (which he pretty much warned the others would happen) and then is told he has done wrong for being disrespectful.
I'm not gonna say who /was/ in the wrong, but thats my small take on it.
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On June 30 2012 03:16 BlitzerSC wrote:
Childs, that's what the sotg people are
Can this please be the tagline for SOTG from now on? Maybe with a little graphic of Chad Ochocinco next to it mouthing "Child please."
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I just listened to the show expecting a crazy shit storm, and what I got was a tiny rainbow drizzle. I can't believe how much people are overreacting to this. What the fuck.
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On June 30 2012 03:16 BlitzerSC wrote:
he only difference between me and you is that i see things from an objective point of view since i dislike both of them.
epic
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This is what happens when you happily oblige the 12-year-old stream chat crowd and purposely set yourselves up for a situation that was going to be anything but a mature and friendly discussion. Hopefully in the future people who are invited on aren't those who are hated/disliked by half of the hosts. Most reactions have, in turn, unsurprisingly been negative towards the show and people on it.
Unfornately, it seems whatever the show does some people will always feel entitled and upset they didn't get the content they felt they "deserved."
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On June 30 2012 03:17 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 02:46 Bommes wrote:On June 30 2012 02:42 Femari wrote:On June 30 2012 02:39 Bommes wrote:
Can't believe people are calling this bullying, thats just mean towards children who are really bullied and no one is helping them.
Avilo is an adult human being and they had a discussion over the INTERNET. Saying that it is bullying is just attention whoring and some people drooling because they can't wait to get their pitchforks out again. The law would entirely disagree with you. Well, have fun finding a lawyer who agrees that Avilo got bullied. I'm no lawyer or anything, but hanging up on someone on a phone is none of my known definitions on bullying. You could find one easily. I mean he shouldn't press charges or anything but a lot of lawyers would agree that it's bullying. Also I'm not talking about him being booted. I'm talking about the constant insults and put downs. That is considered bullying. Always has been. I don't think that point matters cause I'm sure Avilo can handle himself but that is still bullying by definition.
To bad bullying isn't illegal, as I stated before. Harrassment, assult and stalkering are. Having your feelings hurt on a talk show you willing went on to, not so much. Really, hurting someones feelings is never illegal. It is when you don't give them the option to walk away or escape having their feelings hurt that crime starts to happen.
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Wow people are overreacting. Just lay it to rest and move on. The issue Avilo and IdrA has towards each other is non of our buisness and why wont we just move on. Situations like these happens all the time and will def happen again. It's like dropping a drama bomb and all the communities explodes in anger.
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On June 30 2012 03:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:17 Femari wrote:On June 30 2012 02:46 Bommes wrote:On June 30 2012 02:42 Femari wrote:On June 30 2012 02:39 Bommes wrote:
Can't believe people are calling this bullying, thats just mean towards children who are really bullied and no one is helping them.
Avilo is an adult human being and they had a discussion over the INTERNET. Saying that it is bullying is just attention whoring and some people drooling because they can't wait to get their pitchforks out again. The law would entirely disagree with you. Well, have fun finding a lawyer who agrees that Avilo got bullied. I'm no lawyer or anything, but hanging up on someone on a phone is none of my known definitions on bullying. You could find one easily. I mean he shouldn't press charges or anything but a lot of lawyers would agree that it's bullying. Also I'm not talking about him being booted. I'm talking about the constant insults and put downs. That is considered bullying. Always has been. I don't think that point matters cause I'm sure Avilo can handle himself but that is still bullying by definition. To bad bullying isn't illegal, as I stated before. Harrassment, assult and stalkering are. Having your feelings hurt on a talk show you willing went on to, not so much. Really, hurting someones feelings is never illegal. It is when you don't give them the option to walk away or escape having their feelings hurt that crime starts to happen.
Actually bullying is harassment so lol. Also there are literally cyber-bullying laws. So again, lol.
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On June 30 2012 03:10 Rabbitmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 22:35 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:29 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:25 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:22 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:19 Elldar wrote:
So, you had to have QXC to say what Avilo was "trying" to say because he had made poor arguments and silly examples (which was so funny that they made JP laugh), when he started to derail everything from a debate he got cut off, what a surprise. How did avilo derail the debate? I agree his arguments weren't that solid, but i think the people telling him to "shut the fuck up" are the ones derailing the debate. No, people telling him shut the fuck up were just stating the fact. Avilo was like a student that decided to teach his teacher. It was irritating and stupid. He was clearly on the show for drama only and that is what we got. Only people complaining in here are either Avilo fanboys (good thing they didn't do this to Destiny :D) or the most hardcore whiners that moved over the that Terran whine topic that was closed recently. I had never even heard of Avilo before this show. And telling a person to shut the fuck up in a debate, no matter how bad one party is doing, is both bad mannered and immature. Also i play protoss, not terran. I have a problem with this kind of behaviour, nothing else. If you look at it as a debate from equals then that is true. And if Idra said to QXC at any point to shut the fuck up I would also be here holding a pitchfork or a torch but to Avilo?! Did you listen to him at all? As I said, it was like when a teacher who obviously knows much more then you tries to teach you something and you start acting like he knows shit and you should teach him what did you expect?! Has never in your schooling years a teacher told one of his students to Shut up? Well idra isn't his teacher, nor is a top player. And i actually do consider all human beings to be equal. Strange thought, i know.
Yes but Humans aren't equal in this situation. There is no right to speak if what you are going to say doesn't make any sense, is just wasting time, and is purposely trying to tick someone off. Are you really going to give Avilo any respect after that? That wasn't a debate they were having. Avilo was intentionally ticking off IdrA. I don't blame IdrA for getting angry at that.
You can't say they were having a respectable debate when it wasn't even a debate. It was an argument, and naturally arguments spin out of control. If Avilo wanted a real debate he should have been the one to act it. Not cut into what IdrA was saying every few seconds and not act like a total idiot.
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On June 30 2012 03:16 BlitzerSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:09 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On June 30 2012 03:07 BlitzerSC wrote:
To be honest I feel that JP should have cut off IdrA instead of Avilo. I mean... saying those kinds of things in front of 10k people is not good at all, it pretty much ruined the show for me. I don't give a shit about " Idra being Idra " , that guys shouldn't get away with things like that. I also love how biased some people are.
For example, if Nani would have said the same thing we would have a topic about it FULL of people talking trash on him, but with IdrA it doesn't happens. Go figure ^^
<3 SC2 community, always coherent. did you even watch the episode seems like you missed so much... Uhm, yes ? The only difference between me and you is that i see things from an objective point of view since i dislike both of them. The thing I saw was that IdrA got interrupted once and then he started talking about how bad Avilo is, that he should STFU ecc. OH RIGHT, if you pay attention there were people LAUGHING in the background (except QXC which seems the only civil guy in there). That's not what i call RESPECT. You don't call a guy just to make fun of the way he talks or about his opinions. THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO SAY THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH SOMEONE WITHOUT DROPPING THE F-BOMB OR HUMILATING HIM IN FRONT OF 10K PEOPLE. Childs, that's what the sotg people are ( except a few ), and i'm done now since most of the people here are so blind that support everything pro players do. I have my opinions, you have yours. Probably neither me or you will change that. Peace.
well sir goodbye you will not be missed. It sure doesn't seem like you see thing from an objective point of view you see all the things you belive to be rude by the sotg people but you dont see all the stuff Avilo did like stiring the pot when he first gets on, constantly interrupting and twisting idras words around, our how a about the 8 days of bullshit trash talk previous to the episode? seriously people like you right now nneed to calm down take a step back and relax stop bring drama up when there is none.
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So...uhh can we have a permanent seat on SoTG for a Terran player? (Come on QXC! do it for the people!)
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Wow, all this fuss over such a little argument. Personally, I viewed it as Avilo crying imbalance and saying it was impossible for Terran to get anything done, whereas IdrA was trying to show that Terran has more options. IdrA is used to being right, and in this case, he was right. That's why he snapped at Avilo who wasn't making an proper argument.
4-6 queens is NOT a ticket right to Hive tech and 80 drones. That's such a silly notion.
+ Show Spoiler +Also, Avilo is hardly a professional player. There was no point keeping him on the show if he was going to act that way.
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On June 30 2012 03:16 Jono7272 wrote:
... what the fuck did I just listen to.
Pretty much this. Also this in regards to the forum explosion. We know how Greg is when he's put into these situations, I've never actually heard Avilo in any of these types of talk show deals ever and I certainly hope to never see him in a situation like this again. He is entirely unsuited to having an intelligible discussion with an established (albeit fairly mid-tier in regards to Korean progamers) progamer and keeping his head. People who are upset about this need to take a chill pill and get off their pitchfork parade, Avilo is not worth your time.
To Incontrol/Idra/JP, please stop posting public responses! I konow you want to respond to all the bullshit but if you didn't bother it would probably just blow over unless it was something really heinous, not a "shut the fuck up" and a hang up call on a State of the Game.
In other news, I love QXC, and he's probably one of the SC2 pros I would actually want to hang out with and talk about non-gaming related topics. Pretty chill dude.
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EPT
