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Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 1875

Forum Index > SC2 General
54608 CommentsPost a Reply
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NPF
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1635 Posts
December 11 2011 20:42 GMT
#37481
On December 12 2011 05:37 FoxyMayhem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2011 05:14 champy wrote:
Suggestion for getting number of viewers up to 30-40k: 2v2, tyler and day9 vs incontrol and jp, destiny + husky casting.


Yeah I'm pretty sure that would do it. Is there a way we can fit IdrA in there somewhere?


Besides Idra being in Korea, he isn't part of the normal STOG crew or a caster, so he might not much desire to attend to this event. Plus we would have tons of random Koreans looking at drunk white guys on the internet behind him.
FoxyMayhem
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
624 Posts
December 11 2011 20:46 GMT
#37482
On December 12 2011 05:42 NPF wrote:
Plus we would have tons of random Koreans looking at drunk white guys on the internet behind him.


Yeah, see that, that would bring the crowds . Aside from that last line, you make a good point.
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-11 21:58:23
December 11 2011 21:58 GMT
#37483
The mech stuff was pretty good. Thor mech was actually really good but feedback and nerfing the emp killed it.

However, I think the key to mech is unsieged tanks. The assumption for mech based around sieged tanks is kinda silly.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
Kharnage
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia920 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 00:32:18
December 12 2011 00:30 GMT
#37484
On December 12 2011 06:58 Antisocialmunky wrote:
The mech stuff was pretty good. Thor mech was actually really good but feedback and nerfing the emp killed it.

However, I think the key to mech is unsieged tanks. The assumption for mech based around sieged tanks is kinda silly.


unsieged tanks are more expensive, bigger maruders that can't be healed with a medivac and can't stim.
Sure they are better vs zealots than maruaders but crunch the numbers. 15 base damage vs 10, 160hp vs 125 and both have 1AR but at 150/125 vs 100/25 it's pretty obvious that maruaders are better, especially if you factor in stim and conc shells.

Look at it this way, for the price of 2 siege tanks you can get a 2 marauders and a raven (and everyone knows that ravens aremade of unobtanium and can't be made by terrans ever because they need to build a TECHLAB on a STARPORT and they cost ALL THE GAS. ALL OF IT!!)
Telcontar
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom16710 Posts
December 12 2011 00:35 GMT
#37485
On December 12 2011 05:14 champy wrote:
Suggestion for getting number of viewers up to 30-40k: 2v2, tyler and day9 vs incontrol and jp, destiny + husky casting.

Edit: or 2 1v1's:

artosis vs day9
tyler vs incontrol


How about MVP & NesTea vs any combo of the 'pillars'?
Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.
Kharnage
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia920 Posts
December 12 2011 00:41 GMT
#37486
On December 12 2011 09:35 Telcontar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2011 05:14 champy wrote:
Suggestion for getting number of viewers up to 30-40k: 2v2, tyler and day9 vs incontrol and jp, destiny + husky casting.

Edit: or 2 1v1's:

artosis vs day9
tyler vs incontrol


How about MVP & NesTea vs any combo of the 'pillars'?


tyler and incontrol would love that man.
if they lose everyone is all "well, they are slumping and mvp & nestea are teh best" but if they win it's all "zomg they boss mode!"
NoS-Craig
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia3122 Posts
December 12 2011 03:23 GMT
#37487
Does anyone know when the drunk cast is? It doesn't say on page one at the moment. Seems glitched out or something.
Artosis loves Starcraft
ChuCky.Ca
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada2497 Posts
December 12 2011 03:24 GMT
#37488
On December 12 2011 12:23 NoS-Craig wrote:
Does anyone know when the drunk cast is? It doesn't say on page one at the moment. Seems glitched out or something.

2 days 1 hour
Most Skilled Current esport Games Scbw>Sc2>Cs1.6>Dota2>Hon>Loopin Louie The Drinking Game>LoL
NoS-Craig
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia3122 Posts
December 12 2011 04:14 GMT
#37489
Thanks man.

Know I know when to start drinking myself. I'm going to watch this drunk lol.
Artosis loves Starcraft
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
December 12 2011 04:32 GMT
#37490
On December 12 2011 09:30 Kharnage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2011 06:58 Antisocialmunky wrote:
The mech stuff was pretty good. Thor mech was actually really good but feedback and nerfing the emp killed it.

However, I think the key to mech is unsieged tanks. The assumption for mech based around sieged tanks is kinda silly.


unsieged tanks are more expensive, bigger maruders that can't be healed with a medivac and can't stim.
Sure they are better vs zealots than maruaders but crunch the numbers. 15 base damage vs 10, 160hp vs 125 and both have 1AR but at 150/125 vs 100/25 it's pretty obvious that maruaders are better, especially if you factor in stim and conc shells.

Look at it this way, for the price of 2 siege tanks you can get a 2 marauders and a raven (and everyone knows that ravens aremade of unobtanium and can't be made by terrans ever because they need to build a TECHLAB on a STARPORT and they cost ALL THE GAS. ALL OF IT!!)


Think of it as more of problem and solution. Sieged tanks do more DPS vs single targets and tanks in the back and provide splash. 2 Tanks is roughly 1 Thor in damage and durability (somewhat inferior due to drop off due to crowding and the fact that you can't lose 1/2 a Thor).

If a 120 food Thor Ball was feasible using a fast 3/4 base build and harass then you can do the same with tanks (it was). Of course you can always try Ghost Thor with strike cannon against immortals. If you get enough Thors and good engages, they evaporate gateway units and outrange every Protoss Units tanks can do the same thing except tanks in the back don't become useless. So I think its feasible, practical? Probably not until you get truely great players.

The main counter to mech like in TvZ is the mass air translation. The advantage with mass Thor ball was that carriers could get volleyed down since you're going to likely fight a handful of 1/1 carriers with 100+ food of 3/3 Thors.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
Kharnage
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia920 Posts
December 12 2011 05:01 GMT
#37491
On December 12 2011 13:32 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2011 09:30 Kharnage wrote:
On December 12 2011 06:58 Antisocialmunky wrote:
The mech stuff was pretty good. Thor mech was actually really good but feedback and nerfing the emp killed it.

However, I think the key to mech is unsieged tanks. The assumption for mech based around sieged tanks is kinda silly.


unsieged tanks are more expensive, bigger maruders that can't be healed with a medivac and can't stim.
Sure they are better vs zealots than maruaders but crunch the numbers. 15 base damage vs 10, 160hp vs 125 and both have 1AR but at 150/125 vs 100/25 it's pretty obvious that maruaders are better, especially if you factor in stim and conc shells.

Look at it this way, for the price of 2 siege tanks you can get a 2 marauders and a raven (and everyone knows that ravens aremade of unobtanium and can't be made by terrans ever because they need to build a TECHLAB on a STARPORT and they cost ALL THE GAS. ALL OF IT!!)


Think of it as more of problem and solution. Sieged tanks do more DPS vs single targets and tanks in the back and provide splash. 2 Tanks is roughly 1 Thor in damage and durability (somewhat inferior due to drop off due to crowding and the fact that you can't lose 1/2 a Thor).

If a 120 food Thor Ball was feasible using a fast 3/4 base build and harass then you can do the same with tanks (it was). Of course you can always try Ghost Thor with strike cannon against immortals. If you get enough Thors and good engages, they evaporate gateway units and outrange every Protoss Units tanks can do the same thing except tanks in the back don't become useless. So I think its feasible, practical? Probably not until you get truely great players.

The main counter to mech like in TvZ is the mass air translation. The advantage with mass Thor ball was that carriers could get volleyed down since you're going to likely fight a handful of 1/1 carriers with 100+ food of 3/3 Thors.


no protoss counters anything terran does with carriers.

not even mech, no matter what jinro says.

imagine i have 8 carriers and all their interceptors die, most of my zealots die, half my VR die and the entire 20/200 mech army is shattered. I'm spending 200mins every 8 ingame secs on interceptors alone from the start of the engagement. i've been bleeding 25mins per second.
The carriers move so slowly and they are so amazingly bad against marines and vikings that even if I win the mech engagement, I'll spend most of my minerals rebuilding interceptors instead of zealots and gateway units while terran will just build vikings and marines. when my carriers die (when, not if) you won't have the gateways or the resources to warpin say, 20 chargelots, and even if i do 20 zealots can't kill a PF that is being repaired before the reinforcements arrive. if I was that invested in carriers I'll probably have at best 1/1/3 on my ground army so my units will suck badly.

The problem with protoss in this matchup is that with the exception of HT/DT vikings counter everything tier 3. If terran are going mech and have those vikigns in the air, you won't see any VR, carriers or colossus. a few vikings patrolling the approach angles will even stop warp prism, if not speed prism.

It'll be chargelot, archon, HT/DT with some stalker/sentry support and some immortals for bust damage. In a nutshell, what they are doing right now vs terran bio minus the colossus. I would say step 1 is take air control with 5 or vikings and build more if you see colossus / warp prism on the field (or if you want to do viking harass, though a few ravens would be better imho. dump auto-turrets and leave).

TvP 'mech' style should take look very 'sky terran' with thors only if they are massing pheonix in an attempt to regain air control or mass stalkers (thors with repair eat stalkers. nom nom nom)
small numbers of tanks where the map permits (cliffs, chokes) and hellions or marines (combat shield, stim, but probably not medivacs) and PFs.
lots of bunkers too. bunker the shit out of everywhere.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
December 12 2011 05:15 GMT
#37492
On December 11 2011 05:45 svefnleysi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2011 06:26 Mattchew wrote:
For 40k Viewers I would love to see a buzzed/drunk 2v2 Featuring:
Taste my 9: Sean and Nick
vs
In my Tosis: Dan and Geoff

Casted by Tyler and JP and any guests

All the players remain on the skype call. Shittalking encouraged

Please, I've been a good boy all year, I've bought all my MLG, NASL and GSL Tickets, I've watched all my IPL's, IEM's and Dreamhacks.

We deserve this showmatch.

You could also make the losers do something like the pink hair or something like that

That would be amazing.

Or a FFA with all the hosts on Skype and JP observing.

Too bad none of this will happen because Day9's ego is too fragile to let anyone see him play SC2.



alcohol cures social anxiety amirite?
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
December 12 2011 11:43 GMT
#37493
On December 12 2011 14:01 Kharnage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2011 13:32 Antisocialmunky wrote:
On December 12 2011 09:30 Kharnage wrote:
On December 12 2011 06:58 Antisocialmunky wrote:
The mech stuff was pretty good. Thor mech was actually really good but feedback and nerfing the emp killed it.

However, I think the key to mech is unsieged tanks. The assumption for mech based around sieged tanks is kinda silly.


unsieged tanks are more expensive, bigger maruders that can't be healed with a medivac and can't stim.
Sure they are better vs zealots than maruaders but crunch the numbers. 15 base damage vs 10, 160hp vs 125 and both have 1AR but at 150/125 vs 100/25 it's pretty obvious that maruaders are better, especially if you factor in stim and conc shells.

Look at it this way, for the price of 2 siege tanks you can get a 2 marauders and a raven (and everyone knows that ravens aremade of unobtanium and can't be made by terrans ever because they need to build a TECHLAB on a STARPORT and they cost ALL THE GAS. ALL OF IT!!)


Think of it as more of problem and solution. Sieged tanks do more DPS vs single targets and tanks in the back and provide splash. 2 Tanks is roughly 1 Thor in damage and durability (somewhat inferior due to drop off due to crowding and the fact that you can't lose 1/2 a Thor).

If a 120 food Thor Ball was feasible using a fast 3/4 base build and harass then you can do the same with tanks (it was). Of course you can always try Ghost Thor with strike cannon against immortals. If you get enough Thors and good engages, they evaporate gateway units and outrange every Protoss Units tanks can do the same thing except tanks in the back don't become useless. So I think its feasible, practical? Probably not until you get truely great players.

The main counter to mech like in TvZ is the mass air translation. The advantage with mass Thor ball was that carriers could get volleyed down since you're going to likely fight a handful of 1/1 carriers with 100+ food of 3/3 Thors.


no protoss counters anything terran does with carriers.

not even mech, no matter what jinro says.

imagine i have 8 carriers and all their interceptors die, most of my zealots die, half my VR die and the entire 20/200 mech army is shattered. I'm spending 200mins every 8 ingame secs on interceptors alone from the start of the engagement. i've been bleeding 25mins per second.
The carriers move so slowly and they are so amazingly bad against marines and vikings that even if I win the mech engagement, I'll spend most of my minerals rebuilding interceptors instead of zealots and gateway units while terran will just build vikings and marines. when my carriers die (when, not if) you won't have the gateways or the resources to warpin say, 20 chargelots, and even if i do 20 zealots can't kill a PF that is being repaired before the reinforcements arrive. if I was that invested in carriers I'll probably have at best 1/1/3 on my ground army so my units will suck badly.

The problem with protoss in this matchup is that with the exception of HT/DT vikings counter everything tier 3. If terran are going mech and have those vikigns in the air, you won't see any VR, carriers or colossus. a few vikings patrolling the approach angles will even stop warp prism, if not speed prism.

It'll be chargelot, archon, HT/DT with some stalker/sentry support and some immortals for bust damage. In a nutshell, what they are doing right now vs terran bio minus the colossus. I would say step 1 is take air control with 5 or vikings and build more if you see colossus / warp prism on the field (or if you want to do viking harass, though a few ravens would be better imho. dump auto-turrets and leave).

TvP 'mech' style should take look very 'sky terran' with thors only if they are massing pheonix in an attempt to regain air control or mass stalkers (thors with repair eat stalkers. nom nom nom)
small numbers of tanks where the map permits (cliffs, chokes) and hellions or marines (combat shield, stim, but probably not medivacs) and PFs.
lots of bunkers too. bunker the shit out of everywhere.


Yeah, it is a lot like the broodlord timing except not as devastating since Thors max out almost faster than any other unit for Terran for a small amount of factories. A straight push with mass Thor against anything but a mass of immortals or HTs is quite good for Terran. Like I said, if you get caught without an absolute critical mass of carriers and you switched to carriers, you die anyway.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9407 Posts
December 12 2011 11:53 GMT
#37494
On December 12 2011 20:43 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2011 14:01 Kharnage wrote:
On December 12 2011 13:32 Antisocialmunky wrote:
On December 12 2011 09:30 Kharnage wrote:
On December 12 2011 06:58 Antisocialmunky wrote:
The mech stuff was pretty good. Thor mech was actually really good but feedback and nerfing the emp killed it.

However, I think the key to mech is unsieged tanks. The assumption for mech based around sieged tanks is kinda silly.


unsieged tanks are more expensive, bigger maruders that can't be healed with a medivac and can't stim.
Sure they are better vs zealots than maruaders but crunch the numbers. 15 base damage vs 10, 160hp vs 125 and both have 1AR but at 150/125 vs 100/25 it's pretty obvious that maruaders are better, especially if you factor in stim and conc shells.

Look at it this way, for the price of 2 siege tanks you can get a 2 marauders and a raven (and everyone knows that ravens aremade of unobtanium and can't be made by terrans ever because they need to build a TECHLAB on a STARPORT and they cost ALL THE GAS. ALL OF IT!!)


Think of it as more of problem and solution. Sieged tanks do more DPS vs single targets and tanks in the back and provide splash. 2 Tanks is roughly 1 Thor in damage and durability (somewhat inferior due to drop off due to crowding and the fact that you can't lose 1/2 a Thor).

If a 120 food Thor Ball was feasible using a fast 3/4 base build and harass then you can do the same with tanks (it was). Of course you can always try Ghost Thor with strike cannon against immortals. If you get enough Thors and good engages, they evaporate gateway units and outrange every Protoss Units tanks can do the same thing except tanks in the back don't become useless. So I think its feasible, practical? Probably not until you get truely great players.

The main counter to mech like in TvZ is the mass air translation. The advantage with mass Thor ball was that carriers could get volleyed down since you're going to likely fight a handful of 1/1 carriers with 100+ food of 3/3 Thors.


no protoss counters anything terran does with carriers.

not even mech, no matter what jinro says.

imagine i have 8 carriers and all their interceptors die, most of my zealots die, half my VR die and the entire 20/200 mech army is shattered. I'm spending 200mins every 8 ingame secs on interceptors alone from the start of the engagement. i've been bleeding 25mins per second.
The carriers move so slowly and they are so amazingly bad against marines and vikings that even if I win the mech engagement, I'll spend most of my minerals rebuilding interceptors instead of zealots and gateway units while terran will just build vikings and marines. when my carriers die (when, not if) you won't have the gateways or the resources to warpin say, 20 chargelots, and even if i do 20 zealots can't kill a PF that is being repaired before the reinforcements arrive. if I was that invested in carriers I'll probably have at best 1/1/3 on my ground army so my units will suck badly.

The problem with protoss in this matchup is that with the exception of HT/DT vikings counter everything tier 3. If terran are going mech and have those vikigns in the air, you won't see any VR, carriers or colossus. a few vikings patrolling the approach angles will even stop warp prism, if not speed prism.

It'll be chargelot, archon, HT/DT with some stalker/sentry support and some immortals for bust damage. In a nutshell, what they are doing right now vs terran bio minus the colossus. I would say step 1 is take air control with 5 or vikings and build more if you see colossus / warp prism on the field (or if you want to do viking harass, though a few ravens would be better imho. dump auto-turrets and leave).

TvP 'mech' style should take look very 'sky terran' with thors only if they are massing pheonix in an attempt to regain air control or mass stalkers (thors with repair eat stalkers. nom nom nom)
small numbers of tanks where the map permits (cliffs, chokes) and hellions or marines (combat shield, stim, but probably not medivacs) and PFs.
lots of bunkers too. bunker the shit out of everywhere.


Yeah, it is a lot like the broodlord timing except not as devastating since Thors max out almost faster than any other unit for Terran for a small amount of factories. A straight push with mass Thor against anything but a mass of immortals or HTs is quite good for Terran. Like I said, if you get caught without an absolute critical mass of carriers and you switched to carriers, you die anyway.


ACtually thors were never good (even pre feedback change) vs toss. VR/+gateway army actually beat it as well, as thors were auto target firing vrs. You can test it in unit tester. It is pretty even from a cost effective pov, but giving that teran is more immobile, he needs to crush the toss army, and he wont do that vs vr/gateway units.
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 12:10:59
December 12 2011 12:10 GMT
#37495
Its not that bad for the Thors, the VRs tend to stack and you can mass repair. VRs aren't great at maxed sized either. Predy made a thread about it a few patches ago before ThorZain got them nerfed to crap.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
December 12 2011 12:17 GMT
#37496
On December 11 2011 05:45 svefnleysi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2011 06:26 Mattchew wrote:
For 40k Viewers I would love to see a buzzed/drunk 2v2 Featuring:
Taste my 9: Sean and Nick
vs
In my Tosis: Dan and Geoff

Casted by Tyler and JP and any guests

All the players remain on the skype call. Shittalking encouraged

Please, I've been a good boy all year, I've bought all my MLG, NASL and GSL Tickets, I've watched all my IPL's, IEM's and Dreamhacks.

We deserve this showmatch.

You could also make the losers do something like the pink hair or something like that

That would be amazing.

Or a FFA with all the hosts on Skype and JP observing.

Too bad none of this will happen because Day9's ego is too fragile to let anyone see him play SC2.


I can't say I blame him, considering the reception some actually active progamers get for their performance. -_-
cHicKeLoR
Profile Joined October 2008
Germany559 Posts
December 12 2011 12:38 GMT
#37497
for the drunk episode... i'm debating if waking up at 5.30am is justified.. and i'm thinking it will be
Asha
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom38257 Posts
December 12 2011 12:44 GMT
#37498
On December 12 2011 09:35 Telcontar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2011 05:14 champy wrote:
Suggestion for getting number of viewers up to 30-40k: 2v2, tyler and day9 vs incontrol and jp, destiny + husky casting.

Edit: or 2 1v1's:

artosis vs day9
tyler vs incontrol


How about MVP & NesTea vs any combo of the 'pillars'?


MVP & Tasteless vs NesTea & Artosis.
Bleak
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Turkey3059 Posts
December 12 2011 13:57 GMT
#37499
The entire Protoss arsenal is designed to kill Mech in WoL. Immortal is a tank hunter, Zealots shred Tank lines, with Blink and Mass Recall you can thrash a T base long before his big ass immobile army comes back, if nothing you can even try to go for Carriers and even that will work because by the time he can defend himself from your harrass, you will be so far ahead with multiple bases and you will have all the time in the world to tech to Carriers. And if he even moves out to take out some, he will leave his entire, vulnerable infrastructure open to a counterattack. And contrary to him, as Protoss you actually have warp-in, but he cannot go back in time. Even sending a small force won't work because 1. Mech unit work well together and in big numbers and 2. In those small numbers, the warpin zealots will rip through anything.

Perhaps it will change in HOTS with the new units (Shredder seems awesome for protecting tanks from Zealot swarms and establishing a position on the map), but right now, Mech is NOT viable. It never was except for some games where so called pros played terribly or got caught off-guard due to not practicing enough against it.
"I am a beacon of knowledge blazing out across a black sea of ignorance. "
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 14:39:11
December 12 2011 14:38 GMT
#37500
I am glad that people finally called out Goody's decision making. I'm sure he's a nice guy but so much of his decision making at major competitions has made my head implode. He really needs to get better at it .
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Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
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