Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 1877

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itmeJP

United States1101 Posts

December 12 2011 22:10 GMT

#37521

Day[9], Artosis vs. EG.iNcontroL, Liquid`Tyler.. 2v2, BO3.

40,000 concurrent. Make it happen.

Condor Hero

United States2931 Posts

December 12 2011 22:10 GMT

#37522

On December 13 2011 07:10 itmeJP wrote:
Day[9], Artosis vs. EG.iNcontroL, Liquid`Tyler.. 2v2, BO3.

40,000 concurrent. Make it happen.

holy shit is this really happening?
what races they playing?

Big J

Austria16289 Posts

December 12 2011 22:11 GMT

#37523

On December 13 2011 06:40 Hider wrote:

Show nested quote +

On December 13 2011 06:23 Big J wrote:

On December 13 2011 05:32 Hider wrote:

On December 13 2011 05:14 Big J wrote:

On December 13 2011 05:02 Hider wrote:

On December 13 2011 02:18 sVnteen wrote:

On December 13 2011 02:00 Velr wrote:
Just listened to the last episode..

Comments..

1: Alltogether really great show, was fun

.

2:
I disliked:
The Mech in TvP discussion... It just did not make sense. I mean... I hope I remember this right atm but the argument, in short, went like this:
Artosis: "I think Mech should be the future standard of PvT because if T has some, perfectly composed, 200/200 ball, which is only possible to get on some maps with very specific characteristics, it's hard to counter for Protoss."
Incontrol sais: "No, most Protoss units are to strong against Mech... You don't get that huge/perfect 200/200 ball / you get out expanded like crazy and in the end just roll over and die.... Additionally, don't you think that some high class Progamer would already have exploited this or at least experimented with this already?"
Artosis: The progamers are just lazy and only want fast money (sadface).
Incontrol: "WAT?" *baffled*

If you discuss somethng like this, shouldn't there be something more behind it? I fully agree with incontrols points because, all evidence supports him. Shouldn't the "pro-mech" faction (Artosis and to a lesser extend Day9?) have a little more fire power behind it's arguments?
Right now there is like 0 indication of Mech being truly viable in a ZvP Macrogame?
I did not get how you could go on and off about this so long, but Incontrols resignation was fun and understandable :D.

3:
Talk/discussion about NASL finals:
It just felt weird to hear Tyler talk and talk bringing up valid points as for why it was bad and day9 answer like: "what exactly did you just say the last few minutes?" This happened like twice in a row?
The conclusion/discussion after this was great/fine, this just felt strange?

About the Music copyrights...Could it be, that the cost to play songs is just WAY higher in the US as compared to Sweden or other smaller countries? In the US you basically buy the right to plays that music to 300mio people while in sweden you just buy it for ~9mio.
I mean the price of other broadcasting rights also varies HEAVYLI between countries.

hm i dont really get your point why the discussion about mech in TvP was bad

i mean they brought it up and discussed it and i think this kind of discussion about the game is awesome because you get much insight and think about stuff that wouldnt have come to your mind

and i think that incontrol is not necessarily right because mech DOES work from time to time TvP and it certainly would work more often if terran players realize how to play it correctly

what i hated about the show was that artosis was bashing GoOdy saying that he is "bad at macroing .... has horrible decision making... just sucks" or something like that

if MVP or some good player would say that im fine with it but artosis is not even close to a level where he could talk badly about a player that already won a lot of tournaments (maybe more than anyone else in sc2) and is competing with the best on a high level (wcg for example)
none of the hosts of SoTG is in a position to critizize a pro player since neither Tyler nor incontrol have comparable results to goody

Yes inc is right. Artosis logic is simple and its so annoying that people actualyl think he knows what he is talking about, and understands the game better than the average viewer. He doesn't. (at least not a better understanding than average mater leauge player).

His logic is as follows: IF you play defensive and create a deathball you will in the long run beat the attacking player. In the short run you have to learn how to defend against all his attacks, but eventaully you will learn to defend everything, adn then you will have a 200 deathball and crush him.

However this logic fails on so many levels, its really sad. (and no i am not gonna list all the failures of his logic).

And that's exactly why Artosis is sooo much better than people like you and "the average masters player".
Because that IS NOT his logic. Not even in the most simplyfied way. You don't even have a clue to begin with what he is talking about.

Your not even trying to come with arguments on why artosis has a higher game understanding.

Have you actualyl ever heard artosis say anything else, than the phrasees "you just have to defend, then you will win". Thats it. There has never been any more to artosis argumentations. Can you prove me wrong?

Well I actually did argument why he has a better understanding:
You are not even getting what he is talking about. Of course he is not gonna explain why X is better than Y everytime he casts, as the complexity of it would take a long time just explain the theory behind it, not to even start with argumenting how you can adapt against X and Y while people want to see him talking about what's happening in the game he is actually paid to commentate on.

I'm not gonna say that I understand the full complexity of his thought process, but I agree with him on most things he says (not because I'm a "fanboy", but because I have come to the same or similar conclusions most of the time... which then made me to some kind of "fanboy")
If you want to know why I (I can't say that Artosis has the same thought process getting there) think compositions like Mech, Broodlord/Infestor (generally high tier compositions) and why playing defensive/reactive is usually the better way to go for in the early game and mid game, we can do that per PM, as I really do think that this is quite offtopic here...

There is no argument in your post. You just say he has a better game understanding than average master league player. Thats a a claim, not a argument.

But well he has had a lot of oppurtunies to explain in deeper throughts why ppl like Jinro (or every other terran player) is wrong when they claim that mech is bad. But he keeps saying: If mech guy just defends and plays perfectly, he gets the 200 deathball and he wins.

There is really nothing else to his argumentation. If you have heard something (even if you dont understand the argumentation), your welcome to write down. And no i dont think this is off topic. This is a debate of a dicussion on SOTG.

But the thing is, that ppl keep believing that Artosis has this magical game understanding ,even though he doesn't play terran, he doesn't watch more sc2 than a lot of master league aplyers, and he doesn't actually play at a higher level than many master league players.

So what do you want to discuss about?
1) Why Mech is better than bio in TvP?
2) Why certain expensive compositions are better than others and why playing defensive/reactive is the better way?

because those two are different discussions and the second one is not necessarily related to the first one, while it can be.
If you want to talk about 1), like your last post signaled, I just want you to read the comment (it was one of mine) right before your original comment on the last page. You can read there that Artosis never claimed (original quote from the episode) that Mech is the way to go in TvP, but as there is noone trying it, noone can say it has been figuered out.
If you want to talk about 2), which it sounded like in the post before this one I'm responding to, then I have to tell you that it is offtopic as it would contain stuff like "why broodlord/infestor is and should be better than Marine/tank/medivac in TvZ and why Mech is and should be better than bio in TvT" (both generally=statistically spoken, which doesn't need to be true for any map/situation)

Teoita

Italy12248 Posts

December 12 2011 22:16 GMT

#37524

On December 13 2011 07:10 itmeJP wrote:
Day[9], Artosis vs. EG.iNcontroL, Liquid`Tyler.. 2v2, BO3.

40,000 concurrent. Make it happen.

Holy shit. I will leave my pc on for that...not gonna be able to watch, but i dont care. Goddamn.

Condor Hero

United States2931 Posts

December 12 2011 22:22 GMT

#37525

On December 13 2011 07:10 itmeJP wrote:
Day[9], Artosis vs. EG.iNcontroL, Liquid`Tyler.. 2v2, BO3.

40,000 concurrent. Make it happen.

Jp if you make this happen I'll add 3 viewers just by myself: desktop, laptop, work laptop.

Wrathsc2

United States2025 Posts

December 12 2011 22:25 GMT

#37526

On December 13 2011 07:10 itmeJP wrote:
Day[9], Artosis vs. EG.iNcontroL, Liquid`Tyler.. 2v2, BO3.

40,000 concurrent. Make it happen.

dAPhREAk

Nauru12397 Posts

December 12 2011 22:27 GMT

#37527

On December 13 2011 07:10 itmeJP wrote:
Day[9], Artosis vs. EG.iNcontroL, Liquid`Tyler.. 2v2, BO3.

40,000 concurrent. Make it happen.

pp is so ridiculously stupid against pz (i assume but dont know what race day9 will pick if not random). tyler and incontrol have this as long as they turtle-toss into a huge protoss deathball. go watch azide and superninja (the turtle-tosses) for strategies. pt is kinda strong against turtle-toss (tanks and stalkers with observer). pp against pp i have never seen before, because nobody wants to play weak-toss in 2v2 matches. should be interesting.

tsuxiit

1305 Posts

December 12 2011 22:29 GMT

#37528

JP, to get 40k concurrent I really think you gotta bring out the 1v1s against Day9. Especially this short notice. Even if he refuses to do it, you should still promise it.

Kharnage

Australia920 Posts

December 12 2011 22:52 GMT

#37529

On December 13 2011 02:00 Velr wrote:

3:
Talk/discussion about NASL finals:
It just felt weird to hear Tyler talk and talk bringing up valid points as for why it was bad and day9 answer like: "what exactly did you just say the last few minutes?" This happened like twice in a row?
The conclusion/discussion after this was great/fine, this just felt strange?

I actually thought this was good.
Day9 kept clarifying and making sure he understood Tylers point exactly and then restated it to make certain he had it and then agreed. I really like that Day could initially disagree, really question Tyler and then change his mind based on the point Tyler made.
I wish more people in society were capable of such things.

dmans

Sweden358 Posts

December 12 2011 23:07 GMT

#37530

If State of the Game reaches 40k viewers tomorrow, miniWHEAT and I will play drunk 2v2's with Mia Rose and Destiny.

from djwheat's twitter

PREVIOUS TWEET WAS A JOKE! (For those who actually believed it) - Although I think miniWHEAT's drink of choice would be Jager!

Loki57

United States292 Posts

December 12 2011 23:59 GMT

#37531

http://twitter.com/#!/itmeJP/status/146350637473468416

Make it happen! This could be something that we laugh at for many years to come rofl

Also as a personal request I think instead of having JP/tasteless cast we should just have both teams talking massive shit to each other on Skype

Zzoram

Canada7115 Posts

December 13 2011 00:03 GMT

#37532

Ugh why can't we see Day9 play? Is he embarrassed? He certainly has the potential to play at least at iNcontroL's level if not better, but I guess he doesn't have time to practice so he doesn't want to look bad on stream.

Ryuuka

Sweden87 Posts

December 13 2011 00:18 GMT

#37533

Didn't Day9 appear on Kings of Tin? I admit that wasn't very serious play but I doubt this would be any different.

Zzoram

Canada7115 Posts

December 13 2011 00:54 GMT

#37534

On December 13 2011 09:18 Ryuuka wrote:
Didn't Day9 appear on Kings of Tin? I admit that wasn't very serious play but I doubt this would be any different.

What is Kings of Tin and how did he play there?

SMD

Canada627 Posts

December 13 2011 01:03 GMT

#37535

On December 13 2011 09:54 Zzoram wrote:

Show nested quote +

What is Kings of Tin and how did he play there?

One of DjWheats shows.

Djwheat and wacksteven bring guests on and play some 3v3's

Zzoram

Canada7115 Posts

December 13 2011 01:12 GMT