EPTHave Day[9],InControl,Arotosis,Jp,Tyler,Tasteless Play showmatches while being really drunk :D
Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 1868
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RimasOwn
Ireland34 Posts
Have Day[9],InControl,Arotosis,Jp,Tyler,Tasteless Play showmatches while being really drunk :D | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 08 2011 10:32 Liquid`Jinro wrote: BoxeR would have never ever ever lost that game if he spent some of his excess minerals on PFs or if he just fucking killed marineking after he suicided his entire army. Mech past 2 bases vs protoss is the biggest joke of an idea ever tho. 200 supply mech just doesnt do shit to protoss and you are completely unable to spread your army because anytime you do, 2 immortals will show up and eat 6 tanks without losing their shield. I dont even think mech is gonna be good vs protoss in the expansion, based purely on what we have seen so far. Until a single warp prism makes it into your base and you cant fend it off without sending your entire army. Until a protoss blinks into your main and snipes every addon. Until a protoss tech switches to carriers and then back to ground. Until you lose a 200/200 fight and by the time he's at your front door, remaxed, your first reinforcement wave of units has not even finished. Until a mothership recalls immortals into your main and you have to engage immortals unsieged up a ramp. (btw, if you recall over an unpassable area like water the fucking units will show up on land, if you are close enough - had that happen when I had a perfect turret ring setup and god damn HerO recalled over the water and everything ended up inside my main) Until you realize that tanks take 11 shots to kill an archon. Until you realize that tanks get raped by colossi unless you are maxed out. Until you realize that there is 0 ways to kill an expansion because of how good warp in is, without commiting your entire army. Macro mech vs protoss is bad on almost every map. So you're playing around with Mech against Protoss in practice? Is there any way to get replay packs or a description of your gameplan for Mech play from you in TvP?  Just to add it, that's exactly what I was talking about... Those kinds of lists that happened in some game and now Mech is "not viable" because of it. It sounds a little bit like the "Muta OP vs Protoss" - arguments in which Protoss "can't win unless zerg screws up", while the mutalisk-month november was the best Protoss PvZ month in a long time. But I guess there is really no point for me to argue with you, as you will simply know better than me, still I think that Mech could at least be refinded to the point where Protoss players would need a gameplan other than "oh fuck, he is going Mech and I have no clue how to play against it. Let's just try something and hope he doesn't know how to react to it". (though I don't have that big of an insight into Pro-Training as you have, so I might point out something that people are actually working on to be prepared "just in case someone really has a very refinded TvP Mech". | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
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Kevan
Sweden2303 Posts
On December 08 2011 07:24 iNcontroL wrote: I can clarify that IdrA is married to Kathy. It's a secret marriage that must now be discussed: Kathy was originally a man but the surgery was such a success that she was renamed to "Eva." Eva was originally married to the surgeon that performed the operation but the marriage became loveless as the surgeon had a tough time actually maintaining his attraction to "Eva" due to the fact that she was in fact a he. Eva eventually moved on but due to the fact that her vaginal operation wasn't fully complete her vaginal canal was shallow and thus clearly not that of a normal woman. Knowing this she preferred to be with younger men or men who don't have as much sexual experience and could thus never really understand something was wrong. That is where Greg comes in.. since then they have had a physical relationship that has made everyone around Eva and greg uncomfortable due to the intensity of their relationship but also because Eva behaved fairly predatorial. Fast forward to NOW where greg has fled the country to korea under the guise of "training" but in reality he just can't take the truth. Demuslim came hope after learning about Eva's true identity and he outted her in a dramatic clash last night that left machine physically impaired. Now Axslav is afraid to come out of his room Eva renamed her/himself "Kathy" and is stalking the halls of the EG lair. I write this so you may all know what happened. Pray for me. Just call Manfred and Sean and get some tinderboxes. And oil, lots of oil. | ||
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:08 NPF wrote: This a thousand times. But throw in a Tasteless vs Artosis off racing with Artosis Zerg and Nick Terran. Just so they play the opposing races of there game knowledge. Since I'm guessing Nick knows Protoss + Zerg and Dan Protoss + Terran. Other way around. Tasteless played Terran in the beta and Artosis played Zerg. Artosis even qualified for a GSL open as Zerg. It'd be a little unfair. | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
So four/five people go out to prove the point by instantly replying to me continuing arguing the point I already said I did not care about, and clearly replies without having read my post since you once again state "Well we just don't like it when Artosis sais mech is the best thing in TvP" or more iterations of "this is why mech does not work, here is a pro player who supports my position". Are people really this fucking stupid in 2011? READ THE GOD DAMN POST BEFORE YOU REPLY TO IT IN A WAY THAT COMPLETELY PROVES MY ARGUMENT. | ||
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Soulrivers
Sweden46 Posts
On December 08 2011 07:24 iNcontroL wrote: I can clarify that IdrA is married to Kathy. It's a secret marriage that must now be discussed: Kathy was originally a man but the surgery was such a success that she was renamed to "Eva." Eva was originally married to the surgeon that performed the operation but the marriage became loveless as the surgeon had a tough time actually maintaining his attraction to "Eva" due to the fact that she was in fact a he. Eva eventually moved on but due to the fact that her vaginal operation wasn't fully complete her vaginal canal was shallow and thus clearly not that of a normal woman. Knowing this she preferred to be with younger men or men who don't have as much sexual experience and could thus never really understand something was wrong. That is where Greg comes in.. since then they have had a physical relationship that has made everyone around Eva and greg uncomfortable due to the intensity of their relationship but also because Eva behaved fairly predatorial. Fast forward to NOW where greg has fled the country to korea under the guise of "training" but in reality he just can't take the truth. Demuslim came hope after learning about Eva's true identity and he outted her in a dramatic clash last night that left machine physically impaired. Now Axslav is afraid to come out of his room Eva renamed her/himself "Kathy" and is stalking the halls of the EG lair. I write this so you may all know what happened. Pray for me. Thanks for clearing things up. | ||
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Necosarius
Sweden4042 Posts
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On December 08 2011 14:55 VanGarde wrote: I still would like to hear Artosis and Day9 use their combined theoretical brilliance on the matter and just get their thoughts. . This 'theoretical brilliance' is no better than random people on the forums theorycrafting stupid shit. Artosis i wouldn't call brilliant at all hence why he defends these stupid ideas so poorly, and Day9 just takes his overly-neutral view and will try and argue in favour of it regardless of how dumb it is. Comparing TvT mech to TvP, a fucking mirror matchup, is the dumbest shit ever. So many reasons it's wrong and dumb, and SO MANY differences from BW to make mech much worse. It's not interesting to hear theoretical compositions that don't even stand up very well in theory let alone in practice. It's pathetic really to see Artosis who hypes up everyone as amazing claiming that mech is really hard so it's not been tested enough. You know what else was hard, mech in BW.. and people like MVP played it for fucking years so why would it be too hard to try and do now. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
Im willing to let the stream run on both desktop and laptop next week to help achieve the 30-40k although I can't watch live because I have university on wednesday, but sad face because no SOTG for so long lol^^ | ||
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On December 09 2011 01:13 VanGarde wrote: I am going to have to applaud the few people who replied to my post and thus proved my argument. So I made a long post pointing out that Day9 and Artosis never said mech was actually good but just wanted to discuss if it could be. I also made the point that people get so caught up in arguing a stupid point that did not even exist in the first place that they don't listen to what people say or read what people write. So four/five people go out to prove the point by instantly replying to me continuing arguing the point I already said I did not care about, and clearly replies without having read my post since you once again state "Well we just don't like it when Artosis sais mech is the best thing in TvP" or more iterations of "this is why mech does not work, here is a pro player who supports my position". Are people really this fucking stupid in 2011? READ THE GOD DAMN POST BEFORE YOU REPLY TO IT IN A WAY THAT COMPLETELY PROVES MY ARGUMENT. Maybe you should listen to the episode again. Artosis did say that tvp mech would the best way to play the match up ("forget marines, man, siege tanks are so good" and other nonsense) which is why he kept bringing up tvt mech, which he for some nostalgic BW reason thinks is the best way to play tvt in SC2. Blizzard have been doing what they can to make sure that tvt mech isn't the best and only way to play the match up, so he's even off the mark on that one. Day9 was way more moderate and open, and initially not even interested in a pure mech discussion, but rather a mobile harassment base style of play with a strong, fortified position like in tvz. Artosis is the one who made it into a "mech is the right way to play tvp" discussion. On top of that, Artosis was really confrontational and belligerent towards Incontrol when confronted with the fact that mech is garbage in tvp. Incontrol was the only one who actually backed up his arguments with things related to how the match up actually works now, when he described the current protoss playstyle. Anyway, I prefer listening to people like Jinro and Thorzain, who actually have first hand, practice- and tournament-based, rather than Artosis who is just theory crafting | ||
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MasterBlasterCaster
United States568 Posts
No, I don't think it is the end-all-be-all "only way to play" method in ANY matchup. Yes, I do think that it is extremely strong in TvT when done correctly, and can be used in TvP. Bio+Ghosts+Mech BACKUP= IMO the best Terran strategy for almost any matchup. | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
and hell, as long me and incontrol are losing, we're in a similar boat too. i think that unless you can point to a pro game where the thing you're saying will work works, you're kinda stuck. either it's proven in competition or it's not | ||
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Crushgroove
United States793 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:08 NPF wrote: This a thousand times. But throw in a Tasteless vs Artosis off racing with Artosis Zerg and Nick Terran. Just so they play the opposing races of there game knowledge. Since I'm guessing Nick knows Protoss + Zerg and Dan Protoss + Terran. Dan played Zerg through the entire beta and the first 3 months of release.... | ||
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Hider
Denmark9377 Posts
On December 09 2011 02:52 infinity2k9 wrote: This 'theoretical brilliance' is no better than random people on the forums theorycrafting stupid shit. Artosis i wouldn't call brilliant at all hence why he defends these stupid ideas so poorly, and Day9 just takes his overly-neutral view and will try and argue in favour of it regardless of how dumb it is. Comparing TvT mech to TvP, a fucking mirror matchup, is the dumbest shit ever. So many reasons it's wrong and dumb, and SO MANY differences from BW to make mech much worse. It's not interesting to hear theoretical compositions that don't even stand up very well in theory let alone in practice. It's pathetic really to see Artosis who hypes up everyone as amazing claiming that mech is really hard so it's not been tested enough. You know what else was hard, mech in BW.. and people like MVP played it for fucking years so why would it be too hard to try and do now. True. The problem with artosis is that he likes a certain playstyle or a specific player, and instead of stating these strategies/players as his favourites, he makes a case that these are the best strategies and the best players. He will do this very often, and its imo a huge problem for an analytical caster that he cant be objective. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9377 Posts
On December 09 2011 03:48 Liquid`Tyler wrote: day9 is really smart and im constantly impressed with how well he keeps up with strategies, and even sees new strats coming before they hit mainstream. but i think the thing that gave him the extra oomph that made him american champion of BW so many times was his own personal testing and re-testing and re-testing and re-testing. he talks about this method all the time in his dailies, where you essentially make a hypothesis on how to play a certain strat, play it until it fails, then adjust it, play it until it fails, adjust it, as many times as you can before you have to use it in competition. i think that process is something he has very little time for nowadays, so his own personal concrete contributions to strategy are extremely limited. he still comes up with great hypotheses, but without inhuman genius, it's a fact that most hypotheses are going to be simply wrong or in need of a ton of refinement through that process. so he's in an awkward position where he can hardly ever prove anything he says but he's still worth listening to, even though a lot of what he says is going to be (to some extent) wrong. artosis is in a similar boat and hell, as long me and incontrol are losing, we're in a similar boat too. i think that unless you can point to a pro game where the thing you're saying will work works, you're kinda stuck. either it's proven in competition or it's not No doubt day9 is really smart. But i have a question out of curiousity: What strategies/trends has he predicted? | ||
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Noev
United States1105 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:08 NPF wrote: This a thousand times. But throw in a Tasteless vs Artosis off racing with Artosis Zerg and Nick Terran. Just so they play the opposing races of there game knowledge. Since I'm guessing Nick knows Protoss + Zerg and Dan Protoss + Terran. I'm not sure what i would do if they did this, obviously watch but that would just be so amazing and funny to watch. Oh well we can dream can't we. | ||
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NPF
Canada1635 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:48 TedJustice wrote: Other way around. Tasteless played Terran in the beta and Artosis played Zerg. Artosis even qualified for a GSL open as Zerg. It'd be a little unfair. Yes CrushGroove I read your response as well. Ok you're right. I was thinking in BW Dan played Terran + now he plays Protoss and Nick played Protoss and his brother Sean was a great Zerg. I even watched Artosis lose in the GSL thanks for reminding me. I didn't know Tasteless played Terran in Beta I thought he played random like Mr.9 since they faced off in the HDH invitational tournament as both random. But a show matches would be pretty cool. | ||
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SeRenExZerg
United States401 Posts
i dont know, maybe viewers actually want to hear about tournament inefficiency and other drama within esports, but in the beginning the show was about the actual game starcraft 2- with blurbs here and there about tournament happenings and the like. i tune in to hear some of the greatest starcraft minds talking about game theory and strategy, not about who they think is going to do well in group X of tournament Y, or why some guy is an idiot because of a mistake he made. I'm actually starting to prefer Inside the Game, because there is some great discussion that goes on about strategy, game predictions, etc. sotg, please go back to the way you used to be T.T | ||
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