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On December 07 2011 16:39 donotforgetme wrote:
Ok here we go, i would guarentee you 40k viewers hands down, and i'd donate 100$ to the show for lying if it doenst happen with this idea, put destiny, deezer, incontrol, and combatex, all drunk, into one skype call and just let us all enjoy, with artosis sean tyler and jp all dying laughing in the backround, and once you finally get them to stop yelling at eachother, let us fans call in and voice our opinion on the situation and then have wrestling matches of the eg team just for fun, and then at the end, have sean ladder for us, being as we all want to see him do it.
If you dont like that idea, the crazy thing we could have sean do is enter a major tournament, such as dreamhack, nasl, mlg, or gsl as a player and not be a caster. That would be crazy and very popular
Way too ambitious... And the Deezer/CombatEx thing is an odd idea. I wouldn't think anybody wants to see that :\
Also though, why are people so defensive about the Mech v. P discussion? It is arguable that it has not been fully explored. Just open your minds to it maybe having its place in the matchup in the future as players get better and work things out. No need to be a dick about it.
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HuK lost to Mech two games in a row.
User was warned for this post
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On December 07 2011 18:37 Chriscras wrote:+ Show Spoiler +HuK lost to Mech two games in a row .
One, you should spoiler that and two, that wasn't mech.
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Im watching VOD first 20minutes is talking about how bad NASL final timing were... So its actually good topic to discuss but if you say something about it on TL forums then you'll get banned for 2 days. TL is getting to the point that you cannot type anything in event topic without getting warn or ban, I understand banning trolls and bm'ers, but lately you cannot even express disappointment or made constructive criticism.
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On December 07 2011 18:37 Chriscras wrote:
HuK lost to Mech two games in a row.
+ Show Spoiler +reactor hellions vs nexus first isnt going mech.......
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gsl spoilers
On December 07 2011 18:37 Chriscras wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
HuK lost to Mech two games in a row.
+ Show Spoiler +
1 base reactor hellion with bio isn't mech
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On December 07 2011 16:39 donotforgetme wrote:
Ok here we go, i would guarentee you 40k viewers hands down, and i'd donate 100$ to the show for lying if it doenst happen with this idea, put destiny, deezer, incontrol, and combatex, all drunk, into one skype call and just let us all enjoy, with artosis sean tyler and jp all dying laughing in the backround, and once you finally get them to stop yelling at eachother, let us fans call in and voice our opinion on the situation and then have wrestling matches of the eg team just for fun, and then at the end, have sean ladder for us, being as we all want to see him do it.
If you dont like that idea, the crazy thing we could have sean do is enter a major tournament, such as dreamhack, nasl, mlg, or gsl as a player and not be a caster. That would be crazy and very popular
I'm pretty sure Deezer and Combatex receive more than enough attention as it is.
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can't believe day9 trying to defend NASL scheduling, after Tyler talks about it for 5 minutes, laying down valid point after valid point, Day9 just says "so what is your criticism?"
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On December 07 2011 16:39 donotforgetme wrote:
[...]
If you dont like that idea, the crazy thing we could have sean do is enter a major tournament, such as dreamhack, nasl, mlg, or gsl as a player and not be a caster. That would be crazy and very popular
Maybe not a major tournament, but I could see it working @Homestory Cup... Day9 could enter it playing only very unusual strategies... (Unless Take wants to move away from the "fun environment" to a more serious tournament.)
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Thanks very much for the timely release of the VOD. As a European, the morning after the moment I remember SotG was yesterday I can access it. Just like old times. <3
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On December 07 2011 18:47 Bulkers wrote:
Im watching VOD first 20minutes is talking about how bad NASL final timing were... So its actually good topic to discuss but if you say something about it on TL forums then you'll get banned for 2 days. TL is getting to the point that you cannot type anything in event topic without getting warn or ban, I understand banning trolls and bm'ers, but lately you cannot even express disappointment or made constructive criticism.
1) What SOTG talks about isn't necessarily okay to talk about on the forums. They routinely bring up those two jackassed stream-cheaters, but TL has a standing "Don't make threads mentioning them" policy.
2) There's a difference. Saying "Yeah....NASL timing is a bit off" is okay on a podcast, but the 50 page shitstorm that blows up in the LR thread if the mods don't keep it under control is completely different.
TL isn't nearly as bad as it could be, or as I think it should be. LR threads are completely unreadable right now (unless you go to a GSL LR, but that's only because no one's ever up to spam those) and your random general thread is full of pitchforks and fire.
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I definitely agree with Tyler and his "rant" about the NASL scheduling. Personally, the finals were really poorly scheduled. Yes, i understand that they needed to show HoN finals and so on, but still; showing the Puma vs Hero finals at 4-5am on Sunday for Europeans is VERY tough to watch. Of course, not to forget NFL Sunday and all the North-Americans on east(?)coast who had it pretty late also. So they clearly could have done better job with that.
NASL most likely would have had more viewers if they'd have started SC2 finals at least couple hours earlier, as Tyler said. Day9 said that MLG's grand finals are very similarly scheduled, but i'm pretty sure that few previous MLG finals ended before 2-4 AM CET. So that is already hour(s) before NASL GFs started.
In my opinion, they should have had their own stream for HoN so the SC2 finals would have been able to start earlier.
Thanks for the fast VoD JP.
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It should be noted that every time a Terran has gone mech in TvP regardless of tank/hellion 2 base timing/ Jinro vs MC/ or massed Thor strategies i think the only time mech lost was Mvp vs Squirtle in GSTL and there was soooooo many reasons outside of the composition itself why he lost that for one not actually starting any mech production till really late and being low on upgrades.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
Even Goody admits that mech doesn't work TvP. Immortals, Chargelots, Phoenix, Voids, Carriers. Almost every unit bar non-blink stalkers is good against mech.
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I'd like to say though that I really hope one day some nerfs come or something happens that just makes bio not as viable of a strategy as Mech where you'll whip out the bio a lot too and it'll be good but for the most part you are going to to want to Mech on almost all maps because I feel Mech in TvP just encourages some amazing looking game play.
It's not like bio where a lot of times late game you get these 2 big mobile armies just kind of walking around forever until either a lot of feed-backs land or EMPs land and then there's an engagement and for the most part the games over right there despite how much longer it takes after that engagement to finish off the opponent. Also the engagements themselves look very flimsy and weird and not like 2 armies fighting what with how bio needs to be stutter stepped like crazy to have effectiveness.
When you get into Mech TvP I find the games just can get 10 times more entertaining because the whole point of the match up at that point becomes constant action and stuff blowing up all over the place. The Protoss is constantly engaging everywhere and constantly trying to whittle down the tank count and starve out the Terran whereas the Terran is constantly moving around with hellions everywhere while building up their army that once maxed and fully upgraded gloriously evaporates even a heavy immortal based army.
As a Terran who pretty much only Mechs at a low Master level of play I would almost encourage it especially in NA because it can be easier to pull off than bio at our low level because the Protosses just don't get how to respond a lot and will sometimes let you get your ideal army because that's how they play against bio.
And it's interesting because occasionally you will hit a protoss who just gets it, constantly harasses and goes very heavy Zealot Immortal archon and will sometimes just smash you or you smash them and you begin to ask yourself a lot of questions why.
You also find a ton of weird timings such as one time I actually went for a 1 fact siege expand on shattered and the Protoss went for a 1 gate nexus and i scouted it and figured i might as well try something out so i took my one tank and a handful of marines and just attacked on the logic that I was on one base just slightly longer to get the factory so my army logically should be stronger and it was I kind of just killed him and he went hardcore BM on me for winning only cause I did a stupid attack.
I just hate the Mech isn't used in TvP at all, I hate that bio still has enough effectiveness that it's the only thing being used. I wouldn't care if Mech became standard or not but as long as it became useable a lot just to make it worth while to tune into a TvP because i just cannot admire or respect bio play in TvP for some reason it just doesn't feel or look right to me and never has.
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On December 07 2011 13:48 XRaDiiX wrote:
I love how the Europeans were crying about the Time of the NASL finals when Western Hemisphere has to watch GSL at like 1-5 AM Start All -Year Round.
NASL Final once or Twice a Year ( Why Complain about staying up late one night every half a year).
GSL almost 3-5 Days a week for most months of the year??? (We have to stay up late if we don't pay for VODS Almost Every night)
Euros have a shitty time watching the GSL as well. It's 10AM for us, on weekdays where we hav school/work.
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and again we praise the casters for their theorycrafting but neglect the opinion of someone, without any big achievement for this year i can grant you that, who play/has played against some of the best foreigner terran (PuMa, DeMusliM) ...
aslo why is Day9 so butthurt about the schedule complain?
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Vod is quick like old times again.
Nice.
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On December 07 2011 19:16 mememolly wrote:
can't believe day9 trying to defend NASL scheduling, after Tyler talks about it for 5 minutes, laying down valid point after valid point, Day9 just says "so what is your criticism?"
I actually really liked that. Day9 has a very precise approach to debate, which means that he won't make an argument until he's nailed down the parameters of the object under discussion. In this case, he wasn't 100% clear on what, precisely, Tyler found objectionable about the scheduling. Note that, once it became more clear that it was the international audience Tyler had in mind more than the local time, Day changed his stance on the argument.
Following up someone else's 5-minute explanation of a problem by asking for a quick explanation of what exactly is the issue is a sign of someone who's actually listening and thinking. Debates these days tend to consist of people with opinions they don't intend to change seizing upon whatever they can find in their opponents' arguments to find fault with so that they don't change their mind. Hearing someone discuss and resolve a difference of opinion in a rational way was utterly refreshing.
Edit: Just to throw my own opinion in there: I agree with Tyler's argument. I couldn't watch the final live without basically getting up super early for it, and I really would have liked to see it. The NASL obviously can schedule their events as they like, but there's no question that it cost them a significant fraction of their EU audience.
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The NASL finals could not have been worse scheduled for the EU audience if they tried, so yea there is no arguing that. But as usual the response from parts of the community is:
"you do realize that it is called the NASL bro, u mad? lawl"
(Gotta have that "you do realize..." and a old meme in it to really make it work.)
All tournaments should be scheduled so that both EU and NA viewers have a realistic shot at watching it, i can bet you all i got that more people in the EU watched HoN because they passed out before SC2 came on. Tyler brought some solid arguments (which is him in a nutshell really).
I remember waking up for a shower and my coffee at 5:30 in the morning and seeing one of the matches.
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EPT
