In a none EU language? wut? Sorry but dont Americans speak an EU language.... English?
Ive been disapointed with iNcontroL with his anti-european jokes and perspective also. Seems crazy to disrespect a full continent of potental fans. The more he does it the more Europeans will take offence. Its not funny Geoff and i'd say a guy that wants to continue to be a sponsored and proffessional sportsman should take more care to not purposfully alienate a full continent from his cause, it doesnt make yourself or your sponsors look good in any way.
Also as a guy that states he doesnt like some of the shit he gets on the internet and lets some of that get to him, why insist on publically doing the same thing to all europeans. Thats crazy man, just asking for more hate at the next excuse for internet trolls.
I'll still be watching out for how well iNcontroL does at the next MLG and hoping he can post some good results but i would be a bigger fan if he stopped being a total idiot sometimes.
I can't even... are you real life?
Seriously guys? We openly joke about poking fun at EU people and then watching the threads for the outrage and ... you guys buy it. How? How is this possible?
We are counter-trolling because we know more about the EU scene than any one person that has bitched about our "lack of EU coverage." We do it in the MOST OBVIOUS WAY WE KNOW HOW.. and this still goes under the radar for some of you?
WOWOWOOW
One of my open dreams is to go to europe. I talk all the time about how amazing it's players are (without sarcasm). And I bleed envy when we discuss HSC, DH etc etc.. how is it some of you get so off track by a few blatant jokes?
As a test I will do this:
EU players are garbage and I hate everyone south of Iceland which means almost all of Poland and Turkey
Ok wish me luck!
I think people complain because there were too many eu trolling jokes without, you know, any reason. When someone's there from Europe and you guys troll each other that's fine, or when Europeans destroy an event with lots of americans in it, it's also ok to make sarcastic jokes or like a recent statement from X player celebrity how EU>>> US. Or really if there's anything you can put your finger on, that's because they are making those jokes, not because they are being douchebags.
Btw i'm not offended at all, and i know they are only jokes, and would love some Eu vs US trolling session with a standup Eropean guy on Sotg, but i get why some people get offended or think it's uncalled for.
The reason they did the EU trolling is because of this thread.
-They talked about Lucifron
-Whiners who need to get their hearing checked misinterpreted this as hate on Lucifron, or ignorance of the EU scene as a whole. They complained loudly and obnoxiously.
-SOTG hosts shake their heads in bemusement, then take the piss out of them by making EU jokes.
-'OMG RACISM'
Because those same whiners have the memories of goldfish, all they saw was
-take the piss out of them by making EU jokes
I personally didn't whine about Lucifron so your logic is flawed. And so is your conclusion, if there is any.
My conclusion is you're dumb super sensitive.
Well you are certainly not the brightest spark either, so I can live with that.
I'm sorry man but what other conclusion am I to draw when you're calling people racists for lightly making fun of forum whiners?
I didn't know about the forum whiners and how should I? I don't read the forums 24/7, I honestly thought he was making fun of europeans for no reason at all.
Well he wasn't. And even if he was the 'making fun' was so lightweight that throwing around accusations of racism is a fucking incredibly over the top response.
On September 21 2011 19:02 doko100 wrote: I personally didn't whine about Lucifron so your logic is flawed.
I think The KY might have made the truly unforgiveable mistake of forgetting that this conversation was all about you. I'm sure he's already begged forgiveness via PM, but in case he's away I'll just apologize publically on his behalf.
a dicto simpliciter ad dictum secundum quid
EDIT: Actually I'm really obviously wasting my time and am just gonna get banned for getting involved in a dumb argument if I carry on.
On September 21 2011 19:02 doko100 wrote: I personally didn't whine about Lucifron so your logic is flawed.
I think The KY might have made the truly unforgiveable mistake of forgetting that this conversation was all about you. I'm sure he's already begged forgiveness via PM, but in case he's away I'll just apologize publically on his behalf.
a dicto simpliciter ad dictum secundum quid
No it's not.
Yes it is. If your argument is that "everyone knows that he was talking about the whiners" and I didn't know about the whiners then I (and many others who don't read the forums alot) am obviously an exception to your rule, so therefore your conclusion is wrong.
On September 21 2011 19:02 doko100 wrote: I personally didn't whine about Lucifron so your logic is flawed.
I think The KY might have made the truly unforgiveable mistake of forgetting that this conversation was all about you. I'm sure he's already begged forgiveness via PM, but in case he's away I'll just apologize publically on his behalf.
a dicto simpliciter ad dictum secundum quid
No it's not.
Yes it is. If your argument is that "everyone knows that he was talking about the whiners" and I didn't know about the whiners then I (and many others who don't read the forums alot) am obviously an exception to your rule, so therefore your conclusion is wrong.
Alright I'll bite.
Actually the point was that the people who whined ignored the context and whined more. Since you didn't know the context, or more importantly didn't bother to find out if there was one, the basic concept still applies.
On September 21 2011 19:02 doko100 wrote: I personally didn't whine about Lucifron so your logic is flawed.
I think The KY might have made the truly unforgiveable mistake of forgetting that this conversation was all about you. I'm sure he's already begged forgiveness via PM, but in case he's away I'll just apologize publically on his behalf.
a dicto simpliciter ad dictum secundum quid
No it's not.
Yes it is. If your argument is that "everyone knows that he was talking about the whiners" and I didn't know about the whiners then I (and many others who don't read the forums alot) am obviously an exception to your rule, so therefore your conclusion is wrong.
Alright I'll bite.
Actually the point was that the people who whined ignored the context and whined more. Since you didn't know the context, or more importantly didn't bother to find out if there was one, the basic concept still applies.
No it doesn't at all. The people who whined, appearantly whined because of something Geoff has said about Lucifron, I however didn't know that, so there is no way that the same concept can apply, if Subject A whines because of something that has been said beforehand and Subject B whines because of something that has been said afterwards they are obviously two different examples.
On September 21 2011 15:40 0neder wrote: real estate being irresistable to look at instead of the ACTUAL ACTION. Go watch the OSL finals Jangbi vs Soo and see the difference it makes. It is SO much more exciting, EVEN given a mediocre quality game.
OMG GO WATCH BROOD WAR FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP
Sorry, there's no argument that can convince me. Maybe some people like being in the dark but I don't. It's not better for me. I think it's not better for e-sports in general... It's hard enough to bring in new people as-is, because understanding the game as an outsider is hard. It would be even harder without an actual graph or numbers to show people.
And the point that the casters will tell you whats going in is pretty bad too. Sometimes casters are trash. Sometimes they're GREAT of course. But on the off chance the casters predict the wrong thing, say the wrong thing or miss something? I like to see the numbers and the minimap because sometimes they get it wrong. For example in Code A today, one of the casters called a 10pool, but it wasn't a 10pool, I could tell by the production tab.
I don't want to be taken emotionally by a game because of ambiguity - that's what playing the game is for.
How can it not be 'good for eSports' when the most established eSport doesn't have it (until recently in the OSL at least)? Clearly it's not vital at all. Resources/supply isn't as bad but things like worker count, that's just basically letting you call the game before it happens. Being somewhat in the dark like the players are is a good thing. Being surprised by units coming out and things like that have certainly made games more exciting.
I just watched episode 50, havent been following much SotG before... can someone explain why they keep hyping up european players and tournaments? It is with a ironical undertone, but WHY? i really dont get it... are they implying it all sucks? are they really praising it? thanks in advance...
On September 21 2011 15:40 0neder wrote: real estate being irresistable to look at instead of the ACTUAL ACTION. Go watch the OSL finals Jangbi vs Soo and see the difference it makes. It is SO much more exciting, EVEN given a mediocre quality game.
OMG GO WATCH BROOD WAR FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP
Sorry, there's no argument that can convince me. Maybe some people like being in the dark but I don't. It's not better for me. I think it's not better for e-sports in general... It's hard enough to bring in new people as-is, because understanding the game as an outsider is hard. It would be even harder without an actual graph or numbers to show people.
And the point that the casters will tell you whats going in is pretty bad too. Sometimes casters are trash. Sometimes they're GREAT of course. But on the off chance the casters predict the wrong thing, say the wrong thing or miss something? I like to see the numbers and the minimap because sometimes they get it wrong. For example in Code A today, one of the casters called a 10pool, but it wasn't a 10pool, I could tell by the production tab.
I don't want to be taken emotionally by a game because of ambiguity - that's what playing the game is for.
How can it not be 'good for eSports' when the most established eSport doesn't have it (until recently in the OSL at least)? Clearly it's not vital at all. Resources/supply isn't as bad but things like worker count, that's just basically letting you call the game before it happens. Being somewhat in the dark like the players are is a good thing. Being surprised by units coming out and things like that have certainly made games more exciting.
South Korea and BW is a pretty isolated case and saying "what worked for BW should be done in SC2" isn't really the best way to move forward. BW was a huge success there and it was a social phenomenon that can't easily be compared to anything else. I'm also pretty sure the global viewership and money in SC2 trump BW pretty hard if you look at the big picture (SC2 vs BW, world vs SK).
On September 21 2011 19:37 Yomi-no-Kuni wrote: I just watched episode 50, havent been following much SotG before... can someone explain why they keep hyping up european players and tournaments? It is with a ironical undertone, but WHY? i really dont get it... are they implying it all sucks? are they really praising it? thanks in advance...
Episode 49 they talked about Dreamhack, and for some insane reason a small bunch of EU residents thought they were either hating on Lucifron or showing ignorance of his skill. They were accused of having little to no EU coverage.
On September 21 2011 19:37 Yomi-no-Kuni wrote: I just watched episode 50, havent been following much SotG before... can someone explain why they keep hyping up european players and tournaments? It is with a ironical undertone, but WHY? i really dont get it... are they implying it all sucks? are they really praising it? thanks in advance...
KY summed it up nicely on the previous page.
On September 21 2011 18:58 The KY wrote:
-They talked about Lucifron
-Whiners who need to get their hearing checked misinterpreted this as hate on Lucifron, or ignorance of the EU scene as a whole. They complained loudly and obnoxiously.
-SOTG hosts shake their heads in bemusement, then take the piss out of them by making EU jokes.
-'OMG RACISM'
Because those same whiners have the memories of goldfish, all they saw was
On September 21 2011 18:22 dementrio wrote: i might be wrong but I think stand up comedy is an almost exclusively american thing, with some spinoffs elsewhere. The only stand up to be found in my country are some subtitled reruns of some fox channel show that air late night on cable tv
allright, thank you for clearing it up, sorry for not checking the thread before asking :/ i really like the show though, might be watching it more often now.
On September 21 2011 18:50 iNcontroL wrote: dude you didn't understand my joke about egyptian text being a european language.. the dude was typing in english and egypt is not in europe...
O_O
WTFFFFFFFFFFF
LOL. To be fair, that gag specifically doesn't work well when you read it. You need to add a picture of your face winking sarcastically with you mouth agape.
On September 21 2011 15:40 0neder wrote: real estate being irresistable to look at instead of the ACTUAL ACTION. Go watch the OSL finals Jangbi vs Soo and see the difference it makes. It is SO much more exciting, EVEN given a mediocre quality game.
OMG GO WATCH BROOD WAR FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP
Sorry, there's no argument that can convince me. Maybe some people like being in the dark but I don't. It's not better for me. I think it's not better for e-sports in general... It's hard enough to bring in new people as-is, because understanding the game as an outsider is hard. It would be even harder without an actual graph or numbers to show people.
And the point that the casters will tell you whats going in is pretty bad too. Sometimes casters are trash. Sometimes they're GREAT of course. But on the off chance the casters predict the wrong thing, say the wrong thing or miss something? I like to see the numbers and the minimap because sometimes they get it wrong. For example in Code A today, one of the casters called a 10pool, but it wasn't a 10pool, I could tell by the production tab.
I don't want to be taken emotionally by a game because of ambiguity - that's what playing the game is for.
How can it not be 'good for eSports' when the most established eSport doesn't have it (until recently in the OSL at least)? Clearly it's not vital at all. Resources/supply isn't as bad but things like worker count, that's just basically letting you call the game before it happens. Being somewhat in the dark like the players are is a good thing. Being surprised by units coming out and things like that have certainly made games more exciting.
South Korea and BW is a pretty isolated case and saying "what worked for BW should be done in SC2" isn't really the best way to move forward. BW was a huge success there and it was a social phenomenon that can't easily be compared to anything else. I'm also pretty sure the global viewership and money in SC2 trump BW pretty hard if you look at the big picture (SC2 vs BW, world vs SK).
Ok way to go off on an unrelated rant?? It's not a competition between games, they are trying to make a sequel. So yes you take everything possible that worked. Considering the current balance and gameplay they should be taking more note of BW infact because it's still far more entertaining. That doesn't mean copying either, you can innovate things while retaining the basic ideas that worked and made it spectator friendly.
For example the fact battles are short, packed into a small space and have little interesting micro; doesn't meant they should necessarily re-add old units but how about some actual new ideas which are good but follow the same concepts? Positional based units like lurker, vultures with spider mines can be re-imagined, and less of units like roach/thor etc. shit no potential a-move units. Reaver is out but how about some new harassment unit for P that is a viable option, doesn't need a random element but a skill element would be probably a good idea.
Without some additions like that i foresee a bleak future for the spectator side of things, because there's only so long you are going to keep a casual viewer entertained by people macroing a particular unit composition and attacking. Or sure, you could just ignore all logic and pretend BW offers no insight into making a good spectator eSport.
On September 21 2011 15:40 0neder wrote: real estate being irresistable to look at instead of the ACTUAL ACTION. Go watch the OSL finals Jangbi vs Soo and see the difference it makes. It is SO much more exciting, EVEN given a mediocre quality game.
OMG GO WATCH BROOD WAR FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP
Sorry, there's no argument that can convince me. Maybe some people like being in the dark but I don't. It's not better for me. I think it's not better for e-sports in general... It's hard enough to bring in new people as-is, because understanding the game as an outsider is hard. It would be even harder without an actual graph or numbers to show people.
And the point that the casters will tell you whats going in is pretty bad too. Sometimes casters are trash. Sometimes they're GREAT of course. But on the off chance the casters predict the wrong thing, say the wrong thing or miss something? I like to see the numbers and the minimap because sometimes they get it wrong. For example in Code A today, one of the casters called a 10pool, but it wasn't a 10pool, I could tell by the production tab.
I don't want to be taken emotionally by a game because of ambiguity - that's what playing the game is for.
How can it not be 'good for eSports' when the most established eSport doesn't have it (until recently in the OSL at least)? Clearly it's not vital at all. Resources/supply isn't as bad but things like worker count, that's just basically letting you call the game before it happens. Being somewhat in the dark like the players are is a good thing. Being surprised by units coming out and things like that have certainly made games more exciting.
South Korea and BW is a pretty isolated case and saying "what worked for BW should be done in SC2" isn't really the best way to move forward. BW was a huge success there and it was a social phenomenon that can't easily be compared to anything else. I'm also pretty sure the global viewership and money in SC2 trump BW pretty hard if you look at the big picture (SC2 vs BW, world vs SK).
Ok way to go off on an unrelated rant?? It's not a competition between games, they are trying to make a sequel. So yes you take everything possible that worked. Considering the current balance and gameplay they should be taking more note of BW infact because it's still far more entertaining. That doesn't mean copying either, you can innovate things while retaining the basic ideas that worked and made it spectator friendly.
For example the fact battles are short, packed into a small space and have little interesting micro; doesn't meant they should necessarily re-add old units but how about some actual new ideas which are good but follow the same concepts? Positional based units like lurker, vultures with spider mines can be re-imagined, and less of units like roach/thor etc. shit no potential a-move units. Reaver is out but how about some new harassment unit for P that is a viable option, doesn't need a random element but a skill element would be probably a good idea.
Without some additions like that i foresee a bleak future for the spectator side of things, because there's only so long you are going to keep a casual viewer entertained by people macroing a particular unit composition and attacking. Or sure, you could just ignore all logic and pretend BW offers no insight into making a good spectator eSport.
Color me optimism, but I'm way more hopeful than that as a spectator. I have to agree with Artosis, when he said that basically we haven't even seen a perfect game out of a player in SC2 yet, and all the players are making mistakes.
I don't think there is anything so fundamentally broken about the design of the game that it is inhibiting it's ability to produce better and better games.
EPT
