Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 1543

On September 14 2011 16:53 Resilient wrote:
I'm confused. Koreans get so much stick for being boring drones with no personality ever by so many people.

--> GomTV arranges All-Star matches with 6 Koreans doing dumb shit like offracing or doing a kong dance on stage and it gets shit on by SOTG.

Korean culture doesn't consist of pro-gamers smashing gaming equipment or shit-talking mid-game like our foreigner scene does. This is how their players show a bit more personality. I just can't see how anyone would think the All-Star games were a waste of time or dismissing everyone in the LR thread who also had a good time watching them. I, for one, hope GomTV does other events that let us see the best players in the world loosen up again.

On September 14 2011 13:21 Duravi wrote:

This. Do these guys not watch any other sports? Pro-bowl, NBA all-star game, etc... A bunch of the best players messing around and having fun, it isn't meant to be some cut throat competition. You are supposed to be enjoying the personalities not the actual game, they totally missed the point.

On September 14 2011 17:21 Arisen wrote:
It frustrates me looking back. I used to always get inspiration for ZvP back in the roach/hydra/corrupter days from community shows like this; that maybe I was just doing something wrong, and I needed to constantly push the envelope because the protoss' said the matchup was fine and patches weren't needed; and today they admit that a lot of pro protoss didn't even practice PvZ for a long time in that time because they thought there was no way to lose, while saying that something needed to be done to "fix" current PvZ. :/

I understand the frustration from losing alot as new styles haven't been figured out, but there are plenty of games where protoss just roll great zergs STILL because they got to that unkillable army scenario, even with great infestor usage. Sure, infestors are strong, but I hardley ever see a few phoenix to lift up the infestors. I hardly ever see mothership (and it's fantastic, like destiny said anyone decent with a mothership will not let it get NP'd, watch some kewi games), I hardly ever see appropriate amounts of phoenix scouts, etc. It's the same 2 builds over and over even though these things have proven to be good.

I wish they would have talked a bit more about the NP and state of ZvP, because I think we hear a lot from protoss players, but not a lot from zergs on community shows like this. IdrA is on once in a while, but no one wants to take him seriously about protoss because that's all he talks about. For almost a year zergs have been bashing their heads against a wall trying everything they could find and still losing almost every game that went to three base against protoss, and after about 1.5 months of zergs finally winning a bit, everyone flys off the handle. It's very understandable because a lot of community figureheads are protoss players, so that's the opinion you'll hear most often. However, I really don't think people put a lot of thought into how zerg players are feeling at the moment. This matchup has been almost unwinnable for almost a year and now we finally have a fighting chance and get smashed right back down. From a zerg perspective it's pretty messed up, and we don't get to hear that a lot. That oppinion needs to be voiced more, imo so players hear it. So often you'll hear someone say that they heard inc or nony say this or that on sotg; they get exposed to one side of the fence but not the other. Sure, IdrA voices his opinions on these types of shows, but due to his character in the SC community, it doesn't really matter. Maybe what he says is legitimate, maybe it isn't, but all a lot of people hear is "IdrA qq", so it gets disregaurded pretty fast.

I don't know, but like I said, I just wish the convo went on a bit longer, though I respect and understand the hosts have other personal time constraints so it may not have been possible.

Great show, regaurdless. Much <3 for Liquid`Tyler making a comeback!

On September 14 2011 17:21 Arisen wrote:
It frustrates me looking back. I used to always get inspiration for ZvP back in the roach/hydra/corrupter days from community shows like this; that maybe I was just doing something wrong, and I needed to constantly push the envelope because the protoss' said the matchup was fine and patches weren't needed; and today they admit that a lot of pro protoss didn't even practice PvZ for a long time in that time because they thought there was no way to lose, while saying that something needed to be done to "fix" current PvZ. :/

I understand the frustration from losing alot as new styles haven't been figured out, but there are plenty of games where protoss just roll great zergs STILL because they got to that unkillable army scenario, even with great infestor usage. Sure, infestors are strong, but I hardley ever see a few phoenix to lift up the infestors. I hardly ever see mothership (and it's fantastic, like destiny said anyone decent with a mothership will not let it get NP'd, watch some kewi games), I hardly ever see appropriate amounts of phoenix scouts, etc. It's the same 2 builds over and over even though these things have proven to be good.

I wish they would have talked a bit more about the NP and state of ZvP, because I think we hear a lot from protoss players, but not a lot from zergs on community shows like this. IdrA is on once in a while, but no one wants to take him seriously about protoss because that's all he talks about. For almost a year zergs have been bashing their heads against a wall trying everything they could find and still losing almost every game that went to three base against protoss, and after about 1.5 months of zergs finally winning a bit, everyone flys off the handle. It's very understandable because a lot of community figureheads are protoss players, so that's the opinion you'll hear most often. However, I really don't think people put a lot of thought into how zerg players are feeling at the moment. This matchup has been almost unwinnable for almost a year and now we finally have a fighting chance and get smashed right back down.

On September 14 2011 17:46 galivet wrote:
Blizzard's goal is to get all three races on equal footing, not to alternate which race gets to win more easily every few months by buffing each race round-robin.

On September 14 2011 17:21 Arisen wrote:
It frustrates me looking back. I used to always get inspiration for ZvP back in the roach/hydra/corrupter days from community shows like this; that maybe I was just doing something wrong, and I needed to constantly push the envelope because the protoss' said the matchup was fine and patches weren't needed; and today they admit that a lot of pro protoss didn't even practice PvZ for a long time in that time because they thought there was no way to lose, while saying that something needed to be done to "fix" current PvZ. :/

I understand the frustration from losing alot as new styles haven't been figured out, but there are plenty of games where protoss just roll great zergs STILL because they got to that unkillable army scenario, even with great infestor usage. Sure, infestors are strong, but I hardley ever see a few phoenix to lift up the infestors. I hardly ever see mothership (and it's fantastic, like destiny said anyone decent with a mothership will not let it get NP'd, watch some kewi games), I hardly ever see appropriate amounts of phoenix scouts, etc. It's the same 2 builds over and over even though these things have proven to be good.

I wish they would have talked a bit more about the NP and state of ZvP, because I think we hear a lot from protoss players, but not a lot from zergs on community shows like this. IdrA is on once in a while, but no one wants to take him seriously about protoss because that's all he talks about. For almost a year zergs have been bashing their heads against a wall trying everything they could find and still losing almost every game that went to three base against protoss, and after about 1.5 months of zergs finally winning a bit, everyone flys off the handle. It's very understandable because a lot of community figureheads are protoss players, so that's the opinion you'll hear most often. However, I really don't think people put a lot of thought into how zerg players are feeling at the moment. This matchup has been almost unwinnable for almost a year and now we finally have a fighting chance and get smashed right back down. From a zerg perspective it's pretty messed up, and we don't get to hear that a lot. That oppinion needs to be voiced more, imo so players hear it. So often you'll hear someone say that they heard inc or nony say this or that on sotg; they get exposed to one side of the fence but not the other. Sure, IdrA voices his opinions on these types of shows, but due to his character in the SC community, it doesn't really matter. Maybe what he says is legitimate, maybe it isn't, but all a lot of people hear is "IdrA qq", so it gets disregaurded pretty fast.

I don't know, but like I said, I just wish the convo went on a bit longer, though I respect and understand the hosts have other personal time constraints so it may not have been possible.

Great show, regaurdless. Much <3 for Liquid`Tyler making a comeback!

On September 14 2011 17:52 aebriol wrote:

Then Terran needs a huge nerf, and IF they end up underpowered, they can be buffed again.

Because at no point since release have Terran ever had problems.

On September 14 2011 18:57 galivet wrote:
It seems that in this show they're afraid to take a side or get into a controversial discussion that might put them at odds with Blizzard's "party line" -- basically discussing game balance in depth at at length is just taboo.

On September 14 2011 18:57 galivet wrote:
It seems that in this show they're afraid to take a side or get into a controversial discussion that might put them at odds with Blizzard's "party line" -- basically discussing game balance in depth at at length is just taboo.

I guess you can't blame them; they're in a kind of "The Emperor Has No Clothes" situation. Pros and commentators have to pretend that the game is reasonably well balanced no matter what, because once most fans perceive the game as imbalanced then they'll lose interest in the competitive scene that writes all the paychecks of pro players and commentators.

Right now many SC2 fans perceive that the game is probably significantly imbalanced, but most respect the opinions of the real experts on that matter. As long as Day9 and the cooler-headed pros don't say that the game is imbalanced then it gets the benefit of the doubt. The massive numbers of protoss fans will still pay to watch TvP in the GSL because hey, maybe it really is a fair competition after all and the best man will win. Hope springs eternal.

However, if there was a SotG that heavily discussed game balance and made a convincing case that the game is broken, then people will lose interest in the pro tournaments that write paychecks to these guys. It's just like the steroids controversies in the Tour de France -- no one wants to watch if the whole competition just comes down to who has the best doctor with the newest black-market steroids. If playing the terran race is shown to be SC2's version of steroids, then it's bad for e-sports. Imagine if every pro who cares to make money started race-switching so that every tournament was even more full of TvT than it is now -- the entertainment value of tournament play will start to rapidly evaporate.

So ya, don't expect the folks who run this show to shoot themselves in the foot by taking any strong position on game balance. Their job is to entertain, get paid, and stay famous; thinking about game balance is Blizzard's job.

On September 14 2011 19:41 karpo wrote:
If you look at the win charts the game isn't unbalanced. It might need some tweaks but i'm pretty sure most pros agree that it's not far from decently balanced.

On September 14 2011 19:41 karpo wrote:


All the people involved with SotG know that as soon as they start discussing game balance indepth it will spawn 200+ pages in this thread and multiple standalone threads where people pick and choose information to use for their race's benefit, ultimately resulting in shitposting and nonconstructive complaining.

On September 14 2011 19:41 karpo wrote:
If you look at the win charts the game isn't unbalanced. It might need some tweaks but i'm pretty sure most pros agree that it's not far from decently balanced.

On September 14 2011 13:59 AlBundy wrote:
Very surprised by today's SoTG. You got actual progamers (Tyler and Incontrol), and you got experts (Artosis and Day9); and what do you do? You talk about Destiny.

Kind of a waste if you ask me...

On September 14 2011 19:59 Za7oX wrote:


They were talking about stream sniping. Why not bring him on?

On September 14 2011 20:04 galivet wrote:


Why talk about a matter of such little importance on a show called "State of the Game" to begin with? SC2 stream sniping is an issue that effects like 50 people on the whole planet. It's like if Oprah devoted part of her show to discussing issues that bother black talkshow hostesses.