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On October 28 2010 23:12 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 12:45 Kazang wrote:On October 28 2010 10:20 Liquid`Tyler wrote:At the end of the day the numbers say the marauder is not unbalanced, that's all blizzard were saying. It's just your opinion as a protoss player that it is too strong, and you are biased as a professional protoss player. Making them sound wrong to support your own opinion is pretty poor form. You've already voiced the sentiment that I have: "no matter what they say people bitch and twist it into something negative" because really I haven't done anything to make Blizzard sound wrong about this case. You're twisting my words into something negative. That's all I did was agree with a guy who explained how kiting Stalkers is useful and then I added the facts that increased move speed increases damage and the increased movement from stim makes marauders cross the threshold of movement speed necessary for retreating. These are facts just like the things I've written earlier in this post. I'm not judging stimmed marauders. I didn't say anything about what you said, I was talking about what iNcontrol said in the podcast. My statement about negative attitudes towards developers wasn't directed at anyone, it was a general statement of what happens when any developer makes a change and generally interacts with community, it wasn't even specific to Blizzard. Which should have been fairly obvious from the wording, sorry if you got the wrong idea but that wasn't the intention. It's not "oh tyler is negative and twisting words", nothing like that, it's not especially not about the balance of marauders which I definitely would not argue with you about, for that I was just reiterating what the panel actually said, and tried to give some context. It's about iNcontrol either deliberately or by mistake unfairly criticizing what the devs on the panel said. People who didn't see the panel but listen to cast which is going to be quite a lot are going to think iNcontrol is right, as he usually is. This in turn lead can lead to negativity towards Blizzard and them being even less forthcoming information and interaction with the community for fear of negative backlash. It's like when Fruit Dealer went on a little rant about how he loses all his practice games and how zerg suck etc before he won the GSL. Suddenly you have a horde of people claiming it to be gospel and that was irrefutable evidence that Zerg is terrible and needs major buffs, becasue he said it. You think someone reading my post may get the wrong idea becasue it simply seemed to have some thought put into it? Incontrols words or yours are going to have 100 time more weight, not about balance in this situation but about Blizzard being wrong or stupid in regard to the marauder statements. It's about not biting the hand that feeds, to put it somewhat melodramatically. I'm not like "INCONTROL MUST RETRACT THESE INFLAMMATORY STATEMENTS IMMEDIATELY!!" either. I'm just pointing out that it's really not a good idea to say stuff like when you have the ear of so many people. I'm not trying to argue about I just find it frustrating to see, as a developer myself it's something I find really disheartening. Sorry but when FruitDealer whined, he got a patch that won him $85,000 and then Blizzard paid him to come to Blizzcon and do a showmatch with the most legendary progamer ever and then they presented him with original artwork to honor his accomplishments. It sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me and if I'm ever in that situation I don't think I'll be able to act for the best of the community... I'll take the huge sum of money, the free trip, the unexpected honor, the burst of fame and the respect that whining "earned" me
I just give up. You obviously don't understand at all what I'm talking about.
Suggesting that whining is what made fruitdealer accomplish what he did is also pretty sad to see. Keep it up I guess if you think it will get you anywhere.
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Someone made a thread a few minutes ago called "B*tch Of The Game".
It was actually a dumb thread about 2v2/3v3 but I initally thought it was about something else so I clicked on it, only to find it was already closed.
Who closed the thread? [88]Incontrol; I guess he thought the same as me ^^
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Do you guys think that these huge prize pools are a type of marketing gimmick to bring some attention to Starcraft 2, and we'll see them get lower as time goes on, or do you think that these prize pools are here to stay?
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On October 29 2010 00:35 Zorkmid wrote:
Do you guys think that these huge prize pools are a type of marketing gimmick to bring some attention to Starcraft 2, and we'll see them get lower as time goes on, or do you think that these prize pools are here to stay?
Will definitly lower over time
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On October 29 2010 00:35 Zorkmid wrote:
Do you guys think that these huge prize pools are a type of marketing gimmick to bring some attention to Starcraft 2, and we'll see them get lower as time goes on, or do you think that these prize pools are here to stay?
Depends on the attention SC2 actually gets.
It's the sponsors that determines how the prize pools are gonna be like.
Attention will most prolly grow or at least continue the same level for quite a while.
But it will drop over time , every game does. SC2 won't last forever, but won't be soon tho.
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I request that next week's SOTG discuss the Jibjab day[9] chipendales dance.
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On October 29 2010 00:28 john0507 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 00:13 vrok wrote:On October 28 2010 23:51 john0507 wrote:On October 28 2010 23:21 Tachion wrote:On October 28 2010 23:12 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 28 2010 12:45 Kazang wrote:On October 28 2010 10:20 Liquid`Tyler wrote:At the end of the day the numbers say the marauder is not unbalanced, that's all blizzard were saying. It's just your opinion as a protoss player that it is too strong, and you are biased as a professional protoss player. Making them sound wrong to support your own opinion is pretty poor form. You've already voiced the sentiment that I have: "no matter what they say people bitch and twist it into something negative" because really I haven't done anything to make Blizzard sound wrong about this case. You're twisting my words into something negative. That's all I did was agree with a guy who explained how kiting Stalkers is useful and then I added the facts that increased move speed increases damage and the increased movement from stim makes marauders cross the threshold of movement speed necessary for retreating. These are facts just like the things I've written earlier in this post. I'm not judging stimmed marauders. I didn't say anything about what you said, I was talking about what iNcontrol said in the podcast. My statement about negative attitudes towards developers wasn't directed at anyone, it was a general statement of what happens when any developer makes a change and generally interacts with community, it wasn't even specific to Blizzard. Which should have been fairly obvious from the wording, sorry if you got the wrong idea but that wasn't the intention. It's not "oh tyler is negative and twisting words", nothing like that, it's not especially not about the balance of marauders which I definitely would not argue with you about, for that I was just reiterating what the panel actually said, and tried to give some context. It's about iNcontrol either deliberately or by mistake unfairly criticizing what the devs on the panel said. People who didn't see the panel but listen to cast which is going to be quite a lot are going to think iNcontrol is right, as he usually is. This in turn lead can lead to negativity towards Blizzard and them being even less forthcoming information and interaction with the community for fear of negative backlash. It's like when Fruit Dealer went on a little rant about how he loses all his practice games and how zerg suck etc before he won the GSL. Suddenly you have a horde of people claiming it to be gospel and that was irrefutable evidence that Zerg is terrible and needs major buffs, becasue he said it. You think someone reading my post may get the wrong idea becasue it simply seemed to have some thought put into it? Incontrols words or yours are going to have 100 time more weight, not about balance in this situation but about Blizzard being wrong or stupid in regard to the marauder statements. It's about not biting the hand that feeds, to put it somewhat melodramatically. I'm not like "INCONTROL MUST RETRACT THESE INFLAMMATORY STATEMENTS IMMEDIATELY!!" either. I'm just pointing out that it's really not a good idea to say stuff like when you have the ear of so many people. I'm not trying to argue about I just find it frustrating to see, as a developer myself it's something I find really disheartening. Sorry but when FruitDealer whined, he got a patch that won him $85,000 and then Blizzard paid him to come to Blizzcon and do a showmatch with the most legendary progamer ever and then they presented him with original artwork to honor his accomplishments. It sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me and if I'm ever in that situation I don't think I'll be able to act for the best of the community... I'll take the huge sum of money, the free trip, the unexpected honor, the burst of fame and the respect that whining "earned" me I'm probably getting whooshed but there was never any patch that helped FD win GSL(unless you count the ultralisk bug in the match vs TOP) You're joking right? Almost ALL early game aggresion options vs zerg were nerfed in 1.1 (excluding protoss cannon). ZvT turned into Hatch first without any worries at that point in time. Tbh 1.1 helped zerg even more than 1.2 did. Anyways, waiting for the next podcast ^_^ Man, you can't even get the version numbering right and then you claim 1.1 helped zerg more? Not to mention the claim that 1.1 turned ZvT into free hatch first, LOL. How can you possibly be this clueless? Let me guess, you play terran? Because you don't know shit about zerg that's for sure. If zerg players got free hatch first vs you in ZvT because of patch 1.1 that only means you suck. Nothing else. 1.2 didn't even do much to TvZ , other than beating a dead horse. Post 1.1 Reapers Bunker were already not really good, and the best option was always gonna be hellions,and most zergs would more or less expect hellions. And yes it was a free hatch first for Z (on most maps anyways), the only thing u could do is force him into more units/defense. 1.2 just further beat Reapers into the ground that it's not even usable, and the Roach upgrade further made Hellions not effective. So ya , I would say 1.1 did more. 1.2 just further grinded it down.
1.2 isn't even out yet.
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On October 29 2010 01:13 kojinshugi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 00:28 john0507 wrote:On October 29 2010 00:13 vrok wrote:On October 28 2010 23:51 john0507 wrote:On October 28 2010 23:21 Tachion wrote:On October 28 2010 23:12 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 28 2010 12:45 Kazang wrote:On October 28 2010 10:20 Liquid`Tyler wrote:At the end of the day the numbers say the marauder is not unbalanced, that's all blizzard were saying. It's just your opinion as a protoss player that it is too strong, and you are biased as a professional protoss player. Making them sound wrong to support your own opinion is pretty poor form. You've already voiced the sentiment that I have: "no matter what they say people bitch and twist it into something negative" because really I haven't done anything to make Blizzard sound wrong about this case. You're twisting my words into something negative. That's all I did was agree with a guy who explained how kiting Stalkers is useful and then I added the facts that increased move speed increases damage and the increased movement from stim makes marauders cross the threshold of movement speed necessary for retreating. These are facts just like the things I've written earlier in this post. I'm not judging stimmed marauders. I didn't say anything about what you said, I was talking about what iNcontrol said in the podcast. My statement about negative attitudes towards developers wasn't directed at anyone, it was a general statement of what happens when any developer makes a change and generally interacts with community, it wasn't even specific to Blizzard. Which should have been fairly obvious from the wording, sorry if you got the wrong idea but that wasn't the intention. It's not "oh tyler is negative and twisting words", nothing like that, it's not especially not about the balance of marauders which I definitely would not argue with you about, for that I was just reiterating what the panel actually said, and tried to give some context. It's about iNcontrol either deliberately or by mistake unfairly criticizing what the devs on the panel said. People who didn't see the panel but listen to cast which is going to be quite a lot are going to think iNcontrol is right, as he usually is. This in turn lead can lead to negativity towards Blizzard and them being even less forthcoming information and interaction with the community for fear of negative backlash. It's like when Fruit Dealer went on a little rant about how he loses all his practice games and how zerg suck etc before he won the GSL. Suddenly you have a horde of people claiming it to be gospel and that was irrefutable evidence that Zerg is terrible and needs major buffs, becasue he said it. You think someone reading my post may get the wrong idea becasue it simply seemed to have some thought put into it? Incontrols words or yours are going to have 100 time more weight, not about balance in this situation but about Blizzard being wrong or stupid in regard to the marauder statements. It's about not biting the hand that feeds, to put it somewhat melodramatically. I'm not like "INCONTROL MUST RETRACT THESE INFLAMMATORY STATEMENTS IMMEDIATELY!!" either. I'm just pointing out that it's really not a good idea to say stuff like when you have the ear of so many people. I'm not trying to argue about I just find it frustrating to see, as a developer myself it's something I find really disheartening. Sorry but when FruitDealer whined, he got a patch that won him $85,000 and then Blizzard paid him to come to Blizzcon and do a showmatch with the most legendary progamer ever and then they presented him with original artwork to honor his accomplishments. It sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me and if I'm ever in that situation I don't think I'll be able to act for the best of the community... I'll take the huge sum of money, the free trip, the unexpected honor, the burst of fame and the respect that whining "earned" me I'm probably getting whooshed but there was never any patch that helped FD win GSL(unless you count the ultralisk bug in the match vs TOP) You're joking right? Almost ALL early game aggresion options vs zerg were nerfed in 1.1 (excluding protoss cannon). ZvT turned into Hatch first without any worries at that point in time. Tbh 1.1 helped zerg even more than 1.2 did. Anyways, waiting for the next podcast ^_^ Man, you can't even get the version numbering right and then you claim 1.1 helped zerg more? Not to mention the claim that 1.1 turned ZvT into free hatch first, LOL. How can you possibly be this clueless? Let me guess, you play terran? Because you don't know shit about zerg that's for sure. If zerg players got free hatch first vs you in ZvT because of patch 1.1 that only means you suck. Nothing else. 1.2 didn't even do much to TvZ , other than beating a dead horse. Post 1.1 Reapers Bunker were already not really good, and the best option was always gonna be hellions,and most zergs would more or less expect hellions. And yes it was a free hatch first for Z (on most maps anyways), the only thing u could do is force him into more units/defense. 1.2 just further beat Reapers into the ground that it's not even usable, and the Roach upgrade further made Hellions not effective. So ya , I would say 1.1 did more. 1.2 just further grinded it down. 1.2 isn't even out yet.
Oh my bad , 1.1.2 then
My bad.
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On October 29 2010 00:31 Kazang wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 23:12 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 28 2010 12:45 Kazang wrote:On October 28 2010 10:20 Liquid`Tyler wrote:At the end of the day the numbers say the marauder is not unbalanced, that's all blizzard were saying. It's just your opinion as a protoss player that it is too strong, and you are biased as a professional protoss player. Making them sound wrong to support your own opinion is pretty poor form. You've already voiced the sentiment that I have: "no matter what they say people bitch and twist it into something negative" because really I haven't done anything to make Blizzard sound wrong about this case. You're twisting my words into something negative. That's all I did was agree with a guy who explained how kiting Stalkers is useful and then I added the facts that increased move speed increases damage and the increased movement from stim makes marauders cross the threshold of movement speed necessary for retreating. These are facts just like the things I've written earlier in this post. I'm not judging stimmed marauders. I didn't say anything about what you said, I was talking about what iNcontrol said in the podcast. My statement about negative attitudes towards developers wasn't directed at anyone, it was a general statement of what happens when any developer makes a change and generally interacts with community, it wasn't even specific to Blizzard. Which should have been fairly obvious from the wording, sorry if you got the wrong idea but that wasn't the intention. It's not "oh tyler is negative and twisting words", nothing like that, it's not especially not about the balance of marauders which I definitely would not argue with you about, for that I was just reiterating what the panel actually said, and tried to give some context. It's about iNcontrol either deliberately or by mistake unfairly criticizing what the devs on the panel said. People who didn't see the panel but listen to cast which is going to be quite a lot are going to think iNcontrol is right, as he usually is. This in turn lead can lead to negativity towards Blizzard and them being even less forthcoming information and interaction with the community for fear of negative backlash. It's like when Fruit Dealer went on a little rant about how he loses all his practice games and how zerg suck etc before he won the GSL. Suddenly you have a horde of people claiming it to be gospel and that was irrefutable evidence that Zerg is terrible and needs major buffs, becasue he said it. You think someone reading my post may get the wrong idea becasue it simply seemed to have some thought put into it? Incontrols words or yours are going to have 100 time more weight, not about balance in this situation but about Blizzard being wrong or stupid in regard to the marauder statements. It's about not biting the hand that feeds, to put it somewhat melodramatically. I'm not like "INCONTROL MUST RETRACT THESE INFLAMMATORY STATEMENTS IMMEDIATELY!!" either. I'm just pointing out that it's really not a good idea to say stuff like when you have the ear of so many people. I'm not trying to argue about I just find it frustrating to see, as a developer myself it's something I find really disheartening. Sorry but when FruitDealer whined, he got a patch that won him $85,000 and then Blizzard paid him to come to Blizzcon and do a showmatch with the most legendary progamer ever and then they presented him with original artwork to honor his accomplishments. It sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me and if I'm ever in that situation I don't think I'll be able to act for the best of the community... I'll take the huge sum of money, the free trip, the unexpected honor, the burst of fame and the respect that whining "earned" me I just give up. You obviously don't understand at all what I'm talking about. Suggesting that whining is what made fruitdealer accomplish what he did is also pretty sad to see. Keep it up I guess if you think it will get you anywhere.
I agree with you that incontrol vastly misunderstood or didn't pay attention or didn't care about what the balance team was saying. The balance panel actually was surprisingly good; I watched it expecting total incompetence and was somewhat impressed with how analytical they went about things. Obviously incontrol can say whatever he wants, but I agree it is kind of annoying seeing people so blatantly misinterpret or misrepresent what was actually going on.
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On October 28 2010 02:31 Snowfield wrote:Show nested quote +Would be interesting if they actually created a HQ sorta like wemadeFOX does that houses several teams.
WeMade is a huge company, i don't think you can compare EG and WeMade lol
How so? WeMade is a game that made some MMO, and they house a top BW team and top asian CS team.
EG is one of the biggest gaming organizations in the world, they have more sponsors and a top 5 american SC2 team, Top american SSF4 team, 3 of the top quake players in the US, Top CS team, top TF2 team, a top 5 WoW team, #1 HoN team in the world, etc.
how can they not compare?
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On October 28 2010 23:12 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 12:45 Kazang wrote:On October 28 2010 10:20 Liquid`Tyler wrote:At the end of the day the numbers say the marauder is not unbalanced, that's all blizzard were saying. It's just your opinion as a protoss player that it is too strong, and you are biased as a professional protoss player. Making them sound wrong to support your own opinion is pretty poor form. You've already voiced the sentiment that I have: "no matter what they say people bitch and twist it into something negative" because really I haven't done anything to make Blizzard sound wrong about this case. You're twisting my words into something negative. That's all I did was agree with a guy who explained how kiting Stalkers is useful and then I added the facts that increased move speed increases damage and the increased movement from stim makes marauders cross the threshold of movement speed necessary for retreating. These are facts just like the things I've written earlier in this post. I'm not judging stimmed marauders. I didn't say anything about what you said, I was talking about what iNcontrol said in the podcast. My statement about negative attitudes towards developers wasn't directed at anyone, it was a general statement of what happens when any developer makes a change and generally interacts with community, it wasn't even specific to Blizzard. Which should have been fairly obvious from the wording, sorry if you got the wrong idea but that wasn't the intention. It's not "oh tyler is negative and twisting words", nothing like that, it's not especially not about the balance of marauders which I definitely would not argue with you about, for that I was just reiterating what the panel actually said, and tried to give some context. It's about iNcontrol either deliberately or by mistake unfairly criticizing what the devs on the panel said. People who didn't see the panel but listen to cast which is going to be quite a lot are going to think iNcontrol is right, as he usually is. This in turn lead can lead to negativity towards Blizzard and them being even less forthcoming information and interaction with the community for fear of negative backlash. It's like when Fruit Dealer went on a little rant about how he loses all his practice games and how zerg suck etc before he won the GSL. Suddenly you have a horde of people claiming it to be gospel and that was irrefutable evidence that Zerg is terrible and needs major buffs, becasue he said it. You think someone reading my post may get the wrong idea becasue it simply seemed to have some thought put into it? Incontrols words or yours are going to have 100 time more weight, not about balance in this situation but about Blizzard being wrong or stupid in regard to the marauder statements. It's about not biting the hand that feeds, to put it somewhat melodramatically. I'm not like "INCONTROL MUST RETRACT THESE INFLAMMATORY STATEMENTS IMMEDIATELY!!" either. I'm just pointing out that it's really not a good idea to say stuff like when you have the ear of so many people. I'm not trying to argue about I just find it frustrating to see, as a developer myself it's something I find really disheartening. Sorry but when FruitDealer whined, he got a patch that won him $85,000 and then Blizzard paid him to come to Blizzcon and do a showmatch with the most legendary progamer ever and then they presented him with original artwork to honor his accomplishments. It sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me and if I'm ever in that situation I don't think I'll be able to act for the best of the community... I'll take the huge sum of money, the free trip, the unexpected honor, the burst of fame and the respect that whining "earned" me
He won $85000 AFTER whining and BEFORE the patch.
And I think what iNc was trying to say is that blizzard were only looking at numbers when they say "marauder stim is not overpowered". They just look at the numbers and are like "look guys, marines do more DPS in pretty much all situations, and nobody complains about them herp derp" without looking at the fact that a unit that isn't particularly weak to splash damage and slows other units can get a significant speed increase itself. Maybe not overpowered, but definitely makes it stronger than marine stim. Although please note marauders take 20 damage to stim, not 10.
Blizzard's idea is that the firepower (DPSxHP) [the forumla nony quoted was hp per dps which would mean a roach would have 4x the hp per dps as a hydra when a roach vs a hydra is an even fight. They have almost exact DPS x HP though, with a little more than half the hp and a little less than double the DPS] of the unit increases with stim, but if you use it at a bad time you can't get the HP back. However the slowing capability of the marauder and speed increase of stim itself means that suddenly this is a non issue.
Geoff is very articulate and a fantastic speaker but you can tell he thinks in terms of intuition (the "feel" of the imba marauders :D ) and english instead of mathematics 
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On October 28 2010 23:12 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 12:45 Kazang wrote:On October 28 2010 10:20 Liquid`Tyler wrote:At the end of the day the numbers say the marauder is not unbalanced, that's all blizzard were saying. It's just your opinion as a protoss player that it is too strong, and you are biased as a professional protoss player. Making them sound wrong to support your own opinion is pretty poor form. You've already voiced the sentiment that I have: "no matter what they say people bitch and twist it into something negative" because really I haven't done anything to make Blizzard sound wrong about this case. You're twisting my words into something negative. That's all I did was agree with a guy who explained how kiting Stalkers is useful and then I added the facts that increased move speed increases damage and the increased movement from stim makes marauders cross the threshold of movement speed necessary for retreating. These are facts just like the things I've written earlier in this post. I'm not judging stimmed marauders. I didn't say anything about what you said, I was talking about what iNcontrol said in the podcast. My statement about negative attitudes towards developers wasn't directed at anyone, it was a general statement of what happens when any developer makes a change and generally interacts with community, it wasn't even specific to Blizzard. Which should have been fairly obvious from the wording, sorry if you got the wrong idea but that wasn't the intention. It's not "oh tyler is negative and twisting words", nothing like that, it's not especially not about the balance of marauders which I definitely would not argue with you about, for that I was just reiterating what the panel actually said, and tried to give some context. It's about iNcontrol either deliberately or by mistake unfairly criticizing what the devs on the panel said. People who didn't see the panel but listen to cast which is going to be quite a lot are going to think iNcontrol is right, as he usually is. This in turn lead can lead to negativity towards Blizzard and them being even less forthcoming information and interaction with the community for fear of negative backlash. It's like when Fruit Dealer went on a little rant about how he loses all his practice games and how zerg suck etc before he won the GSL. Suddenly you have a horde of people claiming it to be gospel and that was irrefutable evidence that Zerg is terrible and needs major buffs, becasue he said it. You think someone reading my post may get the wrong idea becasue it simply seemed to have some thought put into it? Incontrols words or yours are going to have 100 time more weight, not about balance in this situation but about Blizzard being wrong or stupid in regard to the marauder statements. It's about not biting the hand that feeds, to put it somewhat melodramatically. I'm not like "INCONTROL MUST RETRACT THESE INFLAMMATORY STATEMENTS IMMEDIATELY!!" either. I'm just pointing out that it's really not a good idea to say stuff like when you have the ear of so many people. I'm not trying to argue about I just find it frustrating to see, as a developer myself it's something I find really disheartening. Sorry but when FruitDealer whined, he got a patch that won him $85,000 and then Blizzard paid him to come to Blizzcon and do a showmatch with the most legendary progamer ever and then they presented him with original artwork to honor his accomplishments. It sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me and if I'm ever in that situation I don't think I'll be able to act for the best of the community... I'll take the huge sum of money, the free trip, the unexpected honor, the burst of fame and the respect that whining "earned" me
Hmm, Tyler, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought he won the GSL on the old patch? Didn't 1.1.2 come after the GSL had concluded?
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On October 28 2010 23:12 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Sorry but when FruitDealer whined, he got a patch that won him $85,000 and then Blizzard paid him to come to Blizzcon and do a showmatch with the most legendary progamer ever and then they presented him with original artwork to honor his accomplishments. It sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me and if I'm ever in that situation I don't think I'll be able to act for the best of the community... I'll take the huge sum of money, the free trip, the unexpected honor, the burst of fame and the respect that whining "earned" me
You're right, they should have invited you instead
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Hey where can I find the "state of the weapon" podcast , that you guys did after mlg dc event.
Update: State of the Choice on Three that what I wanted. thnx for posting it jp or kind_stranger
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On October 29 2010 02:56 coddan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 23:12 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 28 2010 12:45 Kazang wrote:On October 28 2010 10:20 Liquid`Tyler wrote:At the end of the day the numbers say the marauder is not unbalanced, that's all blizzard were saying. It's just your opinion as a protoss player that it is too strong, and you are biased as a professional protoss player. Making them sound wrong to support your own opinion is pretty poor form. You've already voiced the sentiment that I have: "no matter what they say people bitch and twist it into something negative" because really I haven't done anything to make Blizzard sound wrong about this case. You're twisting my words into something negative. That's all I did was agree with a guy who explained how kiting Stalkers is useful and then I added the facts that increased move speed increases damage and the increased movement from stim makes marauders cross the threshold of movement speed necessary for retreating. These are facts just like the things I've written earlier in this post. I'm not judging stimmed marauders. I didn't say anything about what you said, I was talking about what iNcontrol said in the podcast. My statement about negative attitudes towards developers wasn't directed at anyone, it was a general statement of what happens when any developer makes a change and generally interacts with community, it wasn't even specific to Blizzard. Which should have been fairly obvious from the wording, sorry if you got the wrong idea but that wasn't the intention. It's not "oh tyler is negative and twisting words", nothing like that, it's not especially not about the balance of marauders which I definitely would not argue with you about, for that I was just reiterating what the panel actually said, and tried to give some context. It's about iNcontrol either deliberately or by mistake unfairly criticizing what the devs on the panel said. People who didn't see the panel but listen to cast which is going to be quite a lot are going to think iNcontrol is right, as he usually is. This in turn lead can lead to negativity towards Blizzard and them being even less forthcoming information and interaction with the community for fear of negative backlash. It's like when Fruit Dealer went on a little rant about how he loses all his practice games and how zerg suck etc before he won the GSL. Suddenly you have a horde of people claiming it to be gospel and that was irrefutable evidence that Zerg is terrible and needs major buffs, becasue he said it. You think someone reading my post may get the wrong idea becasue it simply seemed to have some thought put into it? Incontrols words or yours are going to have 100 time more weight, not about balance in this situation but about Blizzard being wrong or stupid in regard to the marauder statements. It's about not biting the hand that feeds, to put it somewhat melodramatically. I'm not like "INCONTROL MUST RETRACT THESE INFLAMMATORY STATEMENTS IMMEDIATELY!!" either. I'm just pointing out that it's really not a good idea to say stuff like when you have the ear of so many people. I'm not trying to argue about I just find it frustrating to see, as a developer myself it's something I find really disheartening. Sorry but when FruitDealer whined, he got a patch that won him $85,000 and then Blizzard paid him to come to Blizzcon and do a showmatch with the most legendary progamer ever and then they presented him with original artwork to honor his accomplishments. It sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me and if I'm ever in that situation I don't think I'll be able to act for the best of the community... I'll take the huge sum of money, the free trip, the unexpected honor, the burst of fame and the respect that whining "earned" me Hmm, Tyler, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought he won the GSL on the old patch? Didn't 1.1.2 come after the GSL had concluded?
I think he's referring to the ultralisk bug that let ultras tear down PFs insanely fast for a little while. If he is referring to ultralisks vs thors then that wasn't a patch thing as it was like that before the patch that removed ultra's special building attack and lowered their damage.
It does seem silly to think that his single frustrated post forced a patch that quickly or that it really impacted his progression through GSL (remember he beat ITR post-fix).
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On October 29 2010 03:57 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 02:56 coddan wrote:On October 28 2010 23:12 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 28 2010 12:45 Kazang wrote:On October 28 2010 10:20 Liquid`Tyler wrote:At the end of the day the numbers say the marauder is not unbalanced, that's all blizzard were saying. It's just your opinion as a protoss player that it is too strong, and you are biased as a professional protoss player. Making them sound wrong to support your own opinion is pretty poor form. You've already voiced the sentiment that I have: "no matter what they say people bitch and twist it into something negative" because really I haven't done anything to make Blizzard sound wrong about this case. You're twisting my words into something negative. That's all I did was agree with a guy who explained how kiting Stalkers is useful and then I added the facts that increased move speed increases damage and the increased movement from stim makes marauders cross the threshold of movement speed necessary for retreating. These are facts just like the things I've written earlier in this post. I'm not judging stimmed marauders. I didn't say anything about what you said, I was talking about what iNcontrol said in the podcast. My statement about negative attitudes towards developers wasn't directed at anyone, it was a general statement of what happens when any developer makes a change and generally interacts with community, it wasn't even specific to Blizzard. Which should have been fairly obvious from the wording, sorry if you got the wrong idea but that wasn't the intention. It's not "oh tyler is negative and twisting words", nothing like that, it's not especially not about the balance of marauders which I definitely would not argue with you about, for that I was just reiterating what the panel actually said, and tried to give some context. It's about iNcontrol either deliberately or by mistake unfairly criticizing what the devs on the panel said. People who didn't see the panel but listen to cast which is going to be quite a lot are going to think iNcontrol is right, as he usually is. This in turn lead can lead to negativity towards Blizzard and them being even less forthcoming information and interaction with the community for fear of negative backlash. It's like when Fruit Dealer went on a little rant about how he loses all his practice games and how zerg suck etc before he won the GSL. Suddenly you have a horde of people claiming it to be gospel and that was irrefutable evidence that Zerg is terrible and needs major buffs, becasue he said it. You think someone reading my post may get the wrong idea becasue it simply seemed to have some thought put into it? Incontrols words or yours are going to have 100 time more weight, not about balance in this situation but about Blizzard being wrong or stupid in regard to the marauder statements. It's about not biting the hand that feeds, to put it somewhat melodramatically. I'm not like "INCONTROL MUST RETRACT THESE INFLAMMATORY STATEMENTS IMMEDIATELY!!" either. I'm just pointing out that it's really not a good idea to say stuff like when you have the ear of so many people. I'm not trying to argue about I just find it frustrating to see, as a developer myself it's something I find really disheartening. Sorry but when FruitDealer whined, he got a patch that won him $85,000 and then Blizzard paid him to come to Blizzcon and do a showmatch with the most legendary progamer ever and then they presented him with original artwork to honor his accomplishments. It sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me and if I'm ever in that situation I don't think I'll be able to act for the best of the community... I'll take the huge sum of money, the free trip, the unexpected honor, the burst of fame and the respect that whining "earned" me Hmm, Tyler, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought he won the GSL on the old patch? Didn't 1.1.2 come after the GSL had concluded? I think he's referring to the ultralisk bug that let ultras tear down PFs insanely fast for a little while. If he is referring to ultralisks vs thors then that wasn't a patch thing as it was like that before the patch that removed ultra's special building attack and lowered their damage. It does seem silly to think that his single frustrated post forced a patch that quickly or that it really impacted his progression through GSL (remember he beat ITR post-fix).
Well, that wouldn't make sense since that was a bug and they didnt exactly "patch the game because of FD's whine".
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On October 29 2010 00:28 john0507 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 00:13 vrok wrote:On October 28 2010 23:51 john0507 wrote:On October 28 2010 23:21 Tachion wrote:On October 28 2010 23:12 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 28 2010 12:45 Kazang wrote:On October 28 2010 10:20 Liquid`Tyler wrote:At the end of the day the numbers say the marauder is not unbalanced, that's all blizzard were saying. It's just your opinion as a protoss player that it is too strong, and you are biased as a professional protoss player. Making them sound wrong to support your own opinion is pretty poor form. You've already voiced the sentiment that I have: "no matter what they say people bitch and twist it into something negative" because really I haven't done anything to make Blizzard sound wrong about this case. You're twisting my words into something negative. That's all I did was agree with a guy who explained how kiting Stalkers is useful and then I added the facts that increased move speed increases damage and the increased movement from stim makes marauders cross the threshold of movement speed necessary for retreating. These are facts just like the things I've written earlier in this post. I'm not judging stimmed marauders. I didn't say anything about what you said, I was talking about what iNcontrol said in the podcast. My statement about negative attitudes towards developers wasn't directed at anyone, it was a general statement of what happens when any developer makes a change and generally interacts with community, it wasn't even specific to Blizzard. Which should have been fairly obvious from the wording, sorry if you got the wrong idea but that wasn't the intention. It's not "oh tyler is negative and twisting words", nothing like that, it's not especially not about the balance of marauders which I definitely would not argue with you about, for that I was just reiterating what the panel actually said, and tried to give some context. It's about iNcontrol either deliberately or by mistake unfairly criticizing what the devs on the panel said. People who didn't see the panel but listen to cast which is going to be quite a lot are going to think iNcontrol is right, as he usually is. This in turn lead can lead to negativity towards Blizzard and them being even less forthcoming information and interaction with the community for fear of negative backlash. It's like when Fruit Dealer went on a little rant about how he loses all his practice games and how zerg suck etc before he won the GSL. Suddenly you have a horde of people claiming it to be gospel and that was irrefutable evidence that Zerg is terrible and needs major buffs, becasue he said it. You think someone reading my post may get the wrong idea becasue it simply seemed to have some thought put into it? Incontrols words or yours are going to have 100 time more weight, not about balance in this situation but about Blizzard being wrong or stupid in regard to the marauder statements. It's about not biting the hand that feeds, to put it somewhat melodramatically. I'm not like "INCONTROL MUST RETRACT THESE INFLAMMATORY STATEMENTS IMMEDIATELY!!" either. I'm just pointing out that it's really not a good idea to say stuff like when you have the ear of so many people. I'm not trying to argue about I just find it frustrating to see, as a developer myself it's something I find really disheartening. Sorry but when FruitDealer whined, he got a patch that won him $85,000 and then Blizzard paid him to come to Blizzcon and do a showmatch with the most legendary progamer ever and then they presented him with original artwork to honor his accomplishments. It sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me and if I'm ever in that situation I don't think I'll be able to act for the best of the community... I'll take the huge sum of money, the free trip, the unexpected honor, the burst of fame and the respect that whining "earned" me I'm probably getting whooshed but there was never any patch that helped FD win GSL(unless you count the ultralisk bug in the match vs TOP) You're joking right? Almost ALL early game aggresion options vs zerg were nerfed in 1.1 (excluding protoss cannon). ZvT turned into Hatch first without any worries at that point in time. Tbh 1.1 helped zerg even more than 1.2 did. Anyways, waiting for the next podcast ^_^ Man, you can't even get the version numbering right and then you claim 1.1 helped zerg more? Not to mention the claim that 1.1 turned ZvT into free hatch first, LOL. How can you possibly be this clueless? Let me guess, you play terran? Because you don't know shit about zerg that's for sure. If zerg players got free hatch first vs you in ZvT because of patch 1.1 that only means you suck. Nothing else. 1.2 didn't even do much to TvZ , other than beating a dead horse. Post 1.1 Reapers Bunker were already not really good, and the best option was always gonna be hellions,and most zergs would more or less expect hellions. And yes it was a free hatch first for Z (on most maps anyways), the only thing u could do is force him into more units/defense. 1.2 just further beat Reapers into the ground that it's not even usable, and the Roach upgrade further made Hellions not effective. So ya , I would say 1.1 did more. 1.2 just further grinded it down.
I don't see how anyone with even an ounce of intelligence and SC2 knowledge could say patch 1.0.1 did more for zerg than patch 1.0.2. Your saying 5 second more of reaper build time was better for Z than +1 roach range, depot before rax AND factory for reaper speed?? Yea ok.. you obviously have no idea what your talking about..
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On October 29 2010 04:11 coddan wrote:
Well, that wouldn't make sense since that was a bug and they didnt exactly "patch the game because of FD's whine".
Kinda off-topic though but... It took Blizzard a long ass time to patch the phoenix bug when the PF bug was fixed in like 2 days. Seems to me they're prioritizing these fixes somehow.
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On October 29 2010 04:44 Oldgrain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 04:11 coddan wrote:
Well, that wouldn't make sense since that was a bug and they didnt exactly "patch the game because of FD's whine". Kinda off-topic though but... It took Blizzard a long ass time to patch the phoenix bug when the PF bug was fixed in like 2 days. Seems to me they're prioritizing these fixes somehow.
That would be idiotic of them, Blizz is a professional company. Do you know how complicated it is to fix some bugs? I've worked in game development and simply changing one line of code can break an entire game, and if it's obscure enough it can take weeks to fix. For instance I know someone who works for EA, there's an animation in NCAA that if they remove it from the game, it will break the entire game. So, to this day that animation takes up space and is just hidden from the player. It's simply just much more cost effective to just hide it rather than spending the man hours to try and figure out what's causing that bug. If you think Blizzard is ever prioritizing bugs based on the race, then you're dead wrong. It's entirely possible, and likely that simply fixing the Pheonix bug caused a much more serious bug in itself which took a while to fix. The PF bug may have simply been fixed by changing a single variable, but we won't know that.
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Wtf is wrong with people and patch numbers?
1.1 - September, tank/reaper/zlot nerfs (Happened during GSL1)
1.1.2 - October, depot/reaperspeed/voidray nerf, roach buff (Happened during GSL2)
Is it that hard to look up something that happened a month ago before you start spouting nonsense?
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EPT
