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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On June 29 2011 02:45 SirScoots wrote: Tyler has now called us a joke of a company twice. So honored. And on both those occasions EG put their corporation face on and tried to cover up the reasons for an unpopular (and arguably wrong) decision. I can see his point. | ||
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Usagi
Spain1647 Posts
Tyler, I heard you say some very wise words in SoTG in one of the last few episodes, when you reminded yourself to think twice before posting anything in the forums, looks like you didnt follow your own advice, and it is easily understandable why SirScoots got agreviated, calling a company a Joke is an Insult, and not even a veiled one, calling the "it's humor" joke doesnt really work there. | ||
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rdj107
United States336 Posts
"He does these things, so why doesn't he do these things too?" Because there's only so many things you can dedicate yourself to? And if ITG is related to his job and SOTG is a thing he does for fun, I'd be willing to bet on which one he'd show up for more consistently. On June 29 2011 03:24 jgoonld wrote: The fact that geoff either had to get appearing on SOTG cleared with sirscoots or was just given the option to guest host from sirscoots at least appears to confirm that this whole exit from SOTG had something to do with EG (or OneMoreGame or a sponser); which is what they attempted to avoid saying (and somewhat mocked those who had similar suspicions) earlier. It would seem pretty naive at this point to think that there weren't external factors other than geoff being busy in his leaving. From my pov it looked more like scoots was telling him that his previous "not appearing on sotg...perhaps ever agaaiinn!" wasn't true, either because geoff heard wrong or because it's geoff and he makes these statements out of habit. Of course it would be naive to think that EG had no influence on dictating how he spent his time and of course EG's general opinion should be that he should spend more of his time dedicated to EG, but to take that and imply that EG has some sinister motive beyond wanting more of geoff's time is just as bad as insisting geoff made the decision in a completely unilateral way. There's no reason to think that there was only one motivating factor in geoff's decisions. On June 29 2011 03:30 drgonzhere wrote: The issue I have with organizational transparency beyond the right to information is that it assumes an organization has a single opinion on something, and that the people who make up the organization even have the same information on any particular thing. It would be ideal that they do, but that just doesn't happen. People misinterpret things, memos get lost in the mail, etc; and if everyone in the organization immediately responded to questions about things they might have incomplete or flat out wrong information about all you would have is an organization with erratic responses, not the facts. + Show Spoiler + Its only going to cause a derail if we allow it to. If we keep this as a rational discussion and keep it on topic, and not flame other people it should be fine dood. I'm not going to pretend that I know the ins and outs of this entire situation, because I don't and very few people do. But in the immortal words of The Dude himself, "New Shit has come to light man!" What I would posit is that the central core of this argument is about corporate transparency in Esports. Do we deserve said transparency? Do we have a right to such a thing? Probably not, but the way that business has been conducted in the past we feel entitled to it. The problems with transparency are apparent. EG is a business and their primary goal is to turn a profit. There is no problem with that at all. Transparency could hurt their business interests in ways that only their top men could say. But we are all witnesses to the problems of less transparency. This giant shit storm over a seemingly small thing. Lack of transparency makes every action that takes away something we love seem like a nefarious money grabbing ploy. My take is that Esports is built around money yes, but also around a community. If we go away, so does the money. And we don't like being lied to. If you're going to be unapologetic about the actions taken now, Why the hell would you hide them in the first place? I have no problem with EG but I like to be rewarded for my loyalty, and not lied to. So I guess I would just say, be more transparent in your intentions involving the community and avoid shit storms like this you will. The end result of this would only make said organization look unprofessional, not trustworthy. | ||
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bLooD.
Germany470 Posts
Geoff was basicly told to not appear on sotg as cohost anymore? (Only as guest appearance) | ||
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TheFrankOne
United States667 Posts
On June 29 2011 03:55 SirScoots wrote: CrossTheRiver, You are absolutely right and I appreciate you calling me on it. My quip was a defensive reaction and not an appropriate response. So can you give an appropriate response to the accusations being made about a conflict of interests rather than personal choice? http://i.imgur.com/o8BzI.jpg The text in the image starts out with the line "but you guys are absolutely allowed..." I don't want to throw out accusations but its hard not to... Honestly if it is a business decision I understand and wouldn't criticize you but its hard to tell what is going on right now. I feel like for all the talk about this being a "great community" there is a lot of empty drama and a refusal to communicate from many of those who are the biggest players. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On June 29 2011 04:15 rdj107 wrote: "He does these things, so why doesn't he do these things too?" Because there's only so many things you can dedicate yourself to? And if ITG is related to his job and SOTG is a thing he does for fun, I'd be willing to bet on which one he'd show up for more consistently. From my pov it looked more like scoots was telling him that his previous "not appearing on sotg...perhaps ever agaaiinn!" wasn't true, either because geoff heard wrong or because it's geoff and he makes these statements out of habit. Of course it would be naive to think that EG had no influence on dictating how he spent his time and of course EG's general opinion should be that he should spend more of his time dedicated to EG, but to take that and imply that EG has some sinister motive beyond wanting more of geoff's time is just as bad as insisting geoff made the decision in a completely unilateral way. There's no reason to think that there was only one motivating factor in geoff's decisions. The issue I have with organizational transparency beyond the right to information is that it assumes an organization has a single opinion on something, and that the people who make up the organization even have the same information on any particular thing. It would be ideal that they do, but that just doesn't happen. People misinterpret things, memos get lost in the mail, etc; and if everyone in the organization immediately responded to questions about things they might have incomplete or flat out wrong information about all you would have is an organization with erratic responses, not the facts. The end result of this would only make said organization look unprofessional, not trustworthy. That's exactly what i think of EG after stuff like this. Being transparent and being retardedly transparent, as you suggest, are totally different things. Also, InControl should probably just keep a overlay covering everything beside matches on his stream. Seems like he's the one leaking all these juicy tidbits that derail threads and start huge arguments. | ||
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EtohEtoh
Canada669 Posts
the inter connectivity that we get from battle.net and skype is pretty cool, between JP and all the other people on the show they must have BNET friends with a lot of top north americans let's say the topic of DTs vs Banshees comes up again and they needed a zerg perspective, they could just check their bnet or skype and see if Idra is online, and just bring him in on the call for 15 minutes. They could do this with any of the top players, since SOTG usually runs when most people are practicing | ||
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MuseMike
United States1339 Posts
On June 29 2011 02:45 SirScoots wrote: Tyler has now called us a joke of a company twice. So honored. Be open and honest. Even if you tell half the truth you are deceiving the community. The situation is worse because of the deception than if you came out and said the entire reason why InControl is leaving the show. It is a business and people expect you to act like a business, but lying is over the top. | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
I'm super excited to see if LO3 brings it up and truly retains it's no fluff motto. I'm also pumped to hear that SOTG is on it's way back! | ||
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MuseMike
United States1339 Posts
On June 29 2011 03:11 djWHEAT wrote: iNcontroL basically said exactly what you summed up last night during Kings of Tin. In fact, with the success of HuK I think it has been a major eye opener for everyone in that regards. I think his words were basically, "how many champions have you heard say they practice 3 hours a day?" Can't think of one. Didn't Idra say he practices 3-4 hours a day right now? There was a call on ITG and the pros laughed when he said they practice 8 hours a day? | ||
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PlosionCornu
Italy814 Posts
it interfered with OnGameNet shows Poor OGN, they meant no harm to the sc2 community lol. | ||
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RmoteCntrld
United States596 Posts
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Usagi
Spain1647 Posts
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MuseMike
United States1339 Posts
On June 29 2011 03:53 Liquid`Tyler wrote: I wish I had time but I need to focus on practice. Lol, perfect response. On a side note, since JP is working FT at MLG, is this going to be an MLG sponsored show now? It would be great for MLG, as JP has a space in the sc2 community. Whether that is good for us, remains to be seen. | ||
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zyzski
United States698 Posts
On June 29 2011 01:05 Liquid`Tyler wrote: I agree with Destiny. I wouldn't ever want to do business with EG. On a personal level, I like a lot of EG people. But professionally, EG is a joke. EG is probably the best organization in the world in terms of player treatment, calling them a joke is pretty harsh | ||
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Moobutt
United States1996 Posts
On June 29 2011 04:33 MuseMike wrote: Lol, perfect response. On a side note, since JP is working FT at MLG, is this going to be an MLG sponsored show now? It would be great for MLG, as JP has a space in the sc2 community. Whether that is good for us, remains to be seen. SotG as an MLG sponsored show worries me only because then I think it would seem as though SotG has a less unbiased agenda. I think it would just complicate matters. | ||
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blackone
Germany1314 Posts
On June 29 2011 04:33 MuseMike wrote: On a side note, since JP is working FT at MLG, is this going to be an MLG sponsored show now? It would be great for MLG, as JP has a space in the sc2 community. Whether that is good for us, remains to be seen. Don't think so, that would mean they'd either have to stop talking about other tournaments (which would make the show pretty irrelevant) or have to be really cautious to not piss off certain people (which would be pretty stupid). | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
On June 29 2011 04:14 Usagi wrote: Holy shit, whats going on guys? what the heck is all this stuff about... Tyler, I heard you say some very wise words in SoTG in one of the last few episodes, when you reminded yourself to think twice before posting anything in the forums, looks like you didnt follow your own advice, and it is easily understandable why SirScoots got agreviated, calling a company a Joke is an Insult, and not even a veiled one, calling the "it's humor" joke doesnt really work there. Actually I like that I've sparked discussion in the SOTG thread so it stays on top of SC2 General for a while. I also like that people are talking about EG, for better or worse. EG probably likes it too if their tacit approval of IdrA's reputation is any indication. And I don't mind the people who think calling something a joke has more to do with being insulting than with humor. I'm sure when they log off TL and return to their coloring books, they'll forget all about me. Now there's an insult and a joke in one! | ||
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GeorgeForeman
United States1746 Posts
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
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