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On October 20 2010 02:58 fantomex wrote:
I feel like I've watched the same TvP on Xel'Naga Caverns 10 times. Its terrible. T goes MMM+vikings, makes PF at gold and its gg.
And then TLO loses that exact matchup in GSL. Sigh....
If you are referring to the first GSL, I am pretty sure he lost in TvT to Hyperdub... but I suppose I could be wrong? I doubt it though
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The hate on Select is silly and unwarranted. Yes, his strategy revolves around MMM, but to say he doesnt adjust his build at all his just plain wrong. He has to make adjustments just like anyone else.
You don't see people bashing on HuK for going primarily gateway units/colossus in TvP do you?
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On October 20 2010 03:13 ApBuLLet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2010 00:56 Klive5ive wrote:
Next state of the game talk about Blizzcon please and how Select and Huk are representing America. xD Haha yeah... a canadian and a korean american... go figure. Oh well, best of luck to both of them.
you do realize that they're representing ALL of North America and not just the US?
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On October 20 2010 03:18 Slipspace wrote:
The hate on Select is silly and unwarranted. Yes, his strategy revolves around MMM, but to say he doesnt adjust his build at all his just plain wrong. He has to make adjustments just like anyone else.
You don't see people bashing on HuK for going primarily gateway units/colossus in TvP do you?
Not reading the backstory to this post I would say he really does alter his build minimally. It revolves around MMM, pressure and concussive micro. If there are there any VODs showing otherwise I would be genuinely interested in watching. Nevertheless he is very good at what he does.
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On October 20 2010 03:16 ApBuLLet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2010 02:58 fantomex wrote:
I feel like I've watched the same TvP on Xel'Naga Caverns 10 times. Its terrible. T goes MMM+vikings, makes PF at gold and its gg.
And then TLO loses that exact matchup in GSL. Sigh.... If you are referring to the first GSL, I am pretty sure he lost in TvT to Hyperdub... but I suppose I could be wrong? I doubt it though
He is referring to GSL2.
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People need to chill the fuck out on the select bashing lol. Incontrol is just a joker :/
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8751 Posts
On October 20 2010 03:14 OutlaW- wrote:
Why all the hate on Select? I mean I know you guys are not really hating him, but you do seem to find any negativity about his play, out of envy perhaps?
There hasn't been any hate afaik. One job that incontrol and I fulfill on the podcast is to provide unique insight, to say something interesting, to point out something that we're in a special position to have observed, to use our enormous amount of experience to judge things, etc. Probably one of the most important things for us to do is say something that the masses don't already know or give an opinion that the masses aren't already inclined to think. When we do agree with popular opinion, we try to strengthen that position by adding something to it that some random sc2 fan wouldn't have the knowledge/experience/authority to add.
When commenting on Select, we both ended up honing in on his one-dimensional play in TvP and TvT which, when added to his sort of sub-par TvZ, makes almost all of his success rely on a small amount of build orders / strategies. I think that everyone can intuitively see how that's not ideal. Everyone can see how that's a weakness. Of course select is due respect for winning and getting results; incontrol and I will always respect results. But I hope that despite the casual feel of the show, everyone knows that we have a good amount of professional integrity. Envy is way off the mark.
If you think we're just some of your dime-a-dozen immature raging dramatic nerds, you can breathe a sigh of relief because I assure you we're not. And we're not ridiculously diplomatic and tame either. You should be happy that we're willing to go through a bunch of grief, which we KNOW we will get when we say negative things about certain people, because we're trying to give our honest and most interesting assessment for the good of the show.
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Why bash Select for consistently using a strategy that works for him?
The only thing you can argue is that it gets excessively boring to watch as a spectator. Of course, games from players like Fenix and qxc are much more exciting to follow since you have to keep track of all the places they are dropping at once while keeping a consistent macro up.
It's more entertaining to see HuK pull a MS rush up than seeing the same 12rax/13ref/15oc for the 20th time in a row. But it works for him. As long as something brings the money, I don't see why he should stop doing it just because people give him the hate.
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This is retarded. How are people calling this "hate" towards SelecT still? I don't think a single insulting word has been uttered in this whole thread (aside from a mouth breather or two) or either of the 3 casts about SelecT, yet somehow after like 30 pages of it people are still talking about it as if people are hating.
Can you people read/listen without getting emotional and propping up straw man arguments? The people defending Inc's opinions are having to defend from bull shit accusations of "hating" or
"bashing." Absurd. Beyond absurd, really.
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please stop PC'ing these guys, and don't ruin my weekly entertainment please...
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Select has insane control/multitasking. Select won most of his matches doing basically the same thing over and over again. Why are these observations so controversial?
What's more interesting, I think, is to see how players will try to adjust to beat him, because as we saw in DC, if you let him dictate the pace/style of the game, you put him in an excellent position, at least in TvP. Some toss is going to have to do something crazy to slow him down. Perhaps some combination of DTs (to warp in for anti-drop) and early immortal play?
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Tyler and Incontrol are trying to provide you great insight from their pro gaming perspective. The point of the podcast is to speak their minds, and if you get offended too easily, stop listening and stop wasting your time.
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On October 20 2010 03:19 javy925 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2010 03:13 ApBuLLet wrote:On October 20 2010 00:56 Klive5ive wrote:
Next state of the game talk about Blizzcon please and how Select and Huk are representing America. xD Haha yeah... a canadian and a korean american... go figure. Oh well, best of luck to both of them. you do realize that they're representing ALL of North America and not just the US?
Oh ok, I was under the impression that it was just the US.
On October 20 2010 03:14 OutlaW- wrote:
Why all the hate on Select? I mean I know you guys are not really hating him, but you do seem to find any negativity about his play, out of envy perhaps?
Are you trying to start something? I doubt any of the four main people on the podcast are envious of SeleCT in any way as they have all won more than SeleCT has. I have respect for SeleCT as he is a great player but I'm sick of all these new SC2 SeleCT fan boys bashing on the old Brood War veterans accusing them of being jealous or whatever. The fact is that they simply criticized SeleCT for the fact that he has been pretty one dimensional from what we've seen so far. If you look at the replays of his past tournaments, including MLG, that statement is pretty hard to argue.
No matter whether it's SC or any other sport, game, or competition in general, one dimensional players need to learn to vary their play if they expect to achieve any sort of prolonged success. Take baseball for example. A pitcher might have an amazing fastball, but if he has no other pitches in his repitoire he isn't going to go too far. He might have a good season or two, but eventually he will just fade away. What they are saying is that RIGHT NOW SeleCT is one of those pitchers with an amazing fastball and not much else at his disposal. This doesn't mean he CAN'T have prolonged success as an SC2 progamer, it only means that sooner or later he will need to add more dimensions to his play in order to do that. This isn't exclusive to SeleCT either, every top level player must do this.
The funny thing is that if SeleCT hears, or has already heard, the things they said he would probably agree and already knows and plans to learn more about the game and develop new strategies that he can use at his disposal. People forget that SeleCT is relatively new to StarCraft (I don't think he played SC BW but I may be wrong), he doesn't have the same experience that a lot of other players have, which is probably the reason why we are having this debate. The ability to diversify your play and adapt to other people's play comes largely from experience. SeleCT doesn't have a ton of experience yet, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have talent, that is one thing he definitely has a ton of, and he has shown it.
I don't mean to speak for anyone on State of the Game because that's not my place, but this is my interpretation of what was said on the podcast, as well as my own interpretation of SeleCT's play.
Edit: added the long part responding to the second post I quoted.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I love the first post after tyler's lolololol
It's like asking "Any questions?" Then some idiot shouts "WHEN DO WE GET TO ASK QUESTIONS YOU FAGGOT?"
roflflflfl
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isnt it today there's a new SOTG ? been missing you guys voices 
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Norway713 Posts
On October 20 2010 03:53 holy_war wrote:
Tyler and Incontrol are trying to provide you great insight from their pro gaming perspective. The point of the podcast is to speak their minds, and if you get offended too easily, stop listening and stop wasting your time.
Agreed. I find it weird that apparently some people can't handle what is essentially impersonal constructive criticism pertaining to gaming technique or style.
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On October 20 2010 03:58 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
I love the first post after tyler's lolololol
It's like asking "Any questions?" Then some idiot shouts "WHEN DO WE GET TO ASK QUESTIONS YOU FAGGOT?"
roflflflfl
You're talking about my post? Cause I was typing while he posted. Was about to edit it out but then I read your post...
Great name calling though "lololololroflflflflfl" and GJ posting this just after Tyler tries to make you guys look professional.
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i was just listening to the post-mlg sotg and jp and djwheat were saying they were going to be streaming sort of a show on sunday, which i missed because i didn't listen to this till now. does anyone know if this took place and if it was recorded or anything so i could watch it now?
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On October 20 2010 04:09 rycho wrote:
i was just listening to the post-mlg sotg and jp and djwheat were saying they were going to be streaming sort of a show on sunday, which i missed because i didn't listen to this till now. does anyone know if this took place and if it was recorded or anything so i could watch it now?
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/djwheat
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To Tyler, iNcontroL, and the rest of the gang:
Please never stop doing what you're doing, your guys' commentary is so so good. Just thought I'd let you know. Thank you.
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EPT
