• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:59
CEST 00:59
KST 07:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists22
Community News
Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event11Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced9
StarCraft 2
General
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) 2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers $1,400 SEL Season 3 Ladder Invitational
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Do we have a pimpest plays list? AI Question ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 3 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV OutLive 25 (RTS Game) Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Movie Stars In Video Games: …
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1575 users

The true balance problem - the maps - Page 11

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 9 10 11 All
TurboDreams
Profile Joined April 2009
United States427 Posts
August 27 2010 02:57 GMT
#201
On August 27 2010 11:51 TheAngelofDeath wrote:
Maps need to be larger, just that simple. It's hard to have a strong macro game with such tiny maps. Look at the BW maps, those are the design that SC2 should aim for.

Not just that, but the Zerg race needs large maps just to stay alive. If maps were like Fighting Spirit, we wouldnt have to many complain threads since Zerg benefit from large maps.
Music is the medicine of the mind || Kill a Zergling and a hundred more will take its place.
.risingdragoon
Profile Joined January 2008
United States3021 Posts
August 27 2010 03:01 GMT
#202
The early sc ladder maps have even more cliffs and narrow spaces

look at ashrigo, looks insane by today's standard

[image loading]
......::::........::::........::::........::::........::::.......::::.......::::... Up☆MaGiC ...::::.......::::.......::::........::::........::::........::::........
_Darwin_
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2374 Posts
August 27 2010 03:08 GMT
#203
On August 27 2010 11:54 Buddhist wrote:

Most of these factors of map design just don't seem very... intuitively imbalanced. Narrow paths, of course, favor the unit with longer range, but cliffs themselves can be abused by all races.


Yes, narrow paths favor the units with longer range. In ZvT, those units belong to Terran. Thus, narrow paths favor Terran in ZvT.

One subtle example: Zerg players use the cliffs by the naturals on LT every game to keep their overlord out of vision while still in range to see everything there, giving them safe and useful scouting information.


This "subtle" example seems to be the only prominent example of Zergs utilizing cliffs. Would you rather have a slow t1 supply unit that can, under normal circumstance, gain vision of your opponents natural, or would you rather have the ability to drop high damaged ranged units on a cliff of your opponents natural that can effectively end the game?
I cant stop lactating
Vortok
Profile Joined December 2009
United States830 Posts
August 27 2010 03:35 GMT
#204
On August 27 2010 09:10 Half wrote:
Now I'm not saying that the game is 100% fine and only map tweaks are all it needs. But even in game tweaks, all zerg needs would be a few minor buffs and T a few minor tweaks and that could potentially fix it. Big fixes are generally unwarranted unless there is a big "big problem".


Pretty much this x 100. The imbalance isn't anywhere near as bad as many people claim. Blizzard just has to find the right two or three knobs to tweak.
TriniMasta
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1323 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 03:42:03
August 27 2010 03:40 GMT
#205
sigh another balancy thread...
When is that new section in TL coming out?

On August 27 2010 12:35 Vortok wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2010 09:10 Half wrote:
Now I'm not saying that the game is 100% fine and only map tweaks are all it needs. But even in game tweaks, all zerg needs would be a few minor buffs and T a few minor tweaks and that could potentially fix it. Big fixes are generally unwarranted unless there is a big "big problem".


Pretty much this x 100. The imbalance isn't anywhere near as bad as many people claim. Blizzard just has to find the right two or three knobs to tweak.

Can people like you please considering PvZ is balanced, (I won't talk about TvP, as the situation isn't distressful for people to cry about yet). Buff zerg, Protoss are going to start to cry. Nerf Terran, Terran might cry in TvP. Please look at all matchups before going like "Nerf T, TvZ balanced, we're all happy"
정명훈 FIGHTING!!! Play both T and P.
Qzy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Denmark1121 Posts
August 27 2010 05:14 GMT
#206
Again... Blizz wants to help terran, cos 99% of terrans are noobs.

Blizz only sees 50/50 win/loss, and believe that's balance, yet due to more noobs playing terran, they are pushing the balance in the other direction.
TG Sambo... Intel classic! Life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
kariido
Profile Joined December 2007
Saudi Arabia179 Posts
August 27 2010 10:02 GMT
#207
On August 27 2010 14:14 Qzy wrote:
Again... Blizz wants to help terran, cos 99% of terrans are noobs.

Blizz only sees 50/50 win/loss, and believe that's balance, yet due to more noobs playing terran, they are pushing the balance in the other direction.

I bet Blizzard, in all their "profound" wisdom, hadn't taken that into consideration when looking at win/loss ratios.
http://campaignforliberty.org/
Grond
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
599 Posts
August 27 2010 14:02 GMT
#208
Blizzard may add a few maps, the community may add a lot of maps. The ladder map pool will not change much. If you want ladder games to be balanced you have to fix the units for the current maps.
Prev 1 9 10 11 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 1m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
JuggernautJason126
PiGStarcraft33
CosmosSc2 25
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 12396
Artosis 482
NaDa 14
Dota 2
monkeys_forever528
League of Legends
Doublelift4630
Counter-Strike
fl0m1804
minikerr9
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King85
PPMD58
Other Games
summit1g7312
tarik_tv5980
Grubby5174
Liquid`RaSZi1680
FrodaN852
shahzam491
C9.Mang0254
NightEnD28
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV425
gamesdonequick220
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream33
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 35
• Response 10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 38
• RayReign 23
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• imaqtpie2105
Other Games
• Scarra999
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
1h 1m
PiGStarcraft33
GSL
10h 31m
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
1d 10h
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
OSC
1d 12h
OSC
1d 14h
Replay Cast
2 days
Escore
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Zoun vs Ryung
Lambo vs ShoWTimE
OSC
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
SHIN vs Bunny
ByuN vs Shameless
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Rogue
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
BSL
4 days
GSL
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-02
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W6
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.