A couple weeks ago I switched from Protoss to Zerg, but after a bunch of ladder games, and a swift ass kicking from Tyler in TL Attack - I decided to switch back to protoss . After doing so, I noticed something interesting about the Zealot charge attack in a ladder game. Zealots only stop charging once they reach the target they are charging towards will charge for a very long distance (a little further than the range of a siege tank, coincidence? I think not!) before they return to regular speed.
This is obviously intended, if fast units like speedlings were moving away from a charging zealot, he needs to be able to get in a hit before he stops charging.
However, it opens the window for something a little more useful! Super charging FaZelots!! (Hey, I wasn't going to name it after myself again ... you guys made me do it!) If a Zealot charges a zealot who is also charging in the same direction, they both continue forward until the zealot in front reaches his target, or they travel the max charge distance (~15).
Using this, you can put a perimeter of zealots anywhere, and know that you can almost instantly have all the zealots wherever you need them on the line.
Example :
This isn't easy to do, I needed to try a bunch of times to do it properly, and the zealots still each got a hit in at the end, that's why this example is in a replay. However, after you get a reflexive feel for it - it becomes a little easier. In an ideal situation, the 'S' button would be clicked before the zealots smash each other in the face. I'm nothing close to a progamer, I'm sure people at the top would be able to do this a lot easier than me!
About the charge. Not sure if this is a bugg or not. One other thing you can do is you can actually switch targets after you have charged and the zealot won't loose the charge but simply change target, by doing this you can charge significantly longer distances
ive noticed this as well, but it is a little impracticable to have zealots spread out in a single file line all the way to your enemies base..ive used it to speed away from an enemy before though =]
This is clever, but in reality they do stop charging after 5 seconds or so whether they reach the target or not. Obviously in this video it is not shown because the charge time even from the first the the last isn't that long. This is most apparent when chasing Speedlings on creep, or when your units all charge a unit that dies (or burrows) before the Zealots reach it. They keep the charge going for about 5 seconds while heading onto their next destination, but eventually they return to normal speed. If you mouse over the Zealots move speed just as he charges, you see that his move speed goes way way up, then goes back down after about 5 seconds.
What about charging a Stalker and Blinking with it? Would it charge him across the blink to the new location? That woul'd be imba, specially if you consider that chargelots would go around cliffs to reach the target on top.
On August 09 2010 04:47 phfantunes wrote: What about charging a Stalker and Blinking with it? Would it charge him across the blink to the new location? That woul'd be imba, specially if you consider that chargelots would go around cliffs to reach the target on top.
I think the idea of charging on a blinking stalker would be an amazing idea if it were found. Then a whole group of Lots can attack the stalker, it blinks on a cliff, and they all come rushing in after.
Nice! I can imagine how that could be useful to bring all your troops to the front line. I want to see this used in pro games. It would be cool to have like a line of zealots leading to the opponent's base .
so if you blink a stalker across a gap that takes a long distance to get to, right after a zeal starts charging on it, then the zeal will continue for a distance of about 15 before stopping (the distance he runs in a straight line looks to be a little longer than a seiged tank's radius)
Do you manually select each zealot and attack it into the zealot in front of it?
You don't attack the next zealot, you use charge manually (hotkey C)
I just tried it on a blinking stalker and it worked. Unfortunately the charging zealot stops after a few seconds (2.5 seconds since the cooldown on the stalker is halfway done when he stops), but it's enough to get it on a nearby ramp
Try attacking a speedling with a chargelot, the zealot will charge after him for about 10 seconds :> Not sure if this trick is going to be useful in the future, fazing was a lot more convenient, wasn't it
I've known about this for a while, it's fun and pretty useful, but something wrong with your op, charge only lasts a couple seconds. so if you do this for too long of a chain they slow back down. thats also why a charge can "fail" in battle if the zealot is blocked by too many units they have to run around a ton.
Im pretty sure this doesnt work I was able to use zerglings in a ZvP once to make the protoss autocharge set off while on creep then outrun it so his zealots were seperated from his units and pick them all off. Because of hte dumbass auto replay removal I dont have the replay but charge definitely has a set duration
On August 09 2010 05:26 iCCup.Raelcun wrote: Im pretty sure this doesnt work I was able to use zerglings in a ZvP once to make the protoss autocharge set off while on creep then outrun it so his zealots were seperated from his units and pick them all off. Because of hte dumbass auto replay removal I dont have the replay but charge definitely has a set duration
edit: Whoa I'm a queen now
Yeah, that was established one page 1 or 2 of this thread. Zealots have a timed charge duration if they don't reach their targets.
On August 09 2010 05:34 koOma wrote: cool trick but pretty much useless in a game
Not really. Charge to catch up with opponents running away from you for example. Charge the one furthest away, all your Zealots catch up, and then you can block and kill even more units. Requires plenty of micro though.
This is actually a lot more interesting than VRs. With VRs it was just bug and I really hoped it was fixed from the second I saw it. This looks like it requires way more effort to actually get benefit from, and benefit seems smaller, but I suppose with some creative play a strategy could be based on getting the surprise attack going with this. Imagine terran seeing one lot wandering, then suddenly 20 lots charge to 1, and they all charge to that lot, could potentially make big havoc in midst of marine/tank lines. Anyhow, this looks like something that despite not probably being intended, doesn't need to be patched.
I congratulate you if D.Bowder will ever call them Fazelots
I can think of some times when this will be useful.. you just lose a fight and only have zealots left while enemy has stalkers (has happened to me often). Your forward pylon dies so without it you will be losing zealots one by one till you reach your base.. with it you can reach your zealots running away towards your base a lot faster...
On August 09 2010 05:52 Powster wrote: I can think of some times when this will be useful.. you just lose a fight and only have zealots left while enemy has stalkers (has happened to me often). Your forward pylon dies so without it you will be losing zealots one by one till you reach your base.. with it you can reach your zealots running away towards your base a lot faster...
Nice! I agree using this you can get away with your stray zealots, so you don't lose all of them if all your stalkers die.
This is big if you think about zealot surrounds. Instead of attack the first unit you should instead attack the unit farthest away from you that way the zealots run a farther distance. This will also be useful a other have said in retreating zealots.
I think that zealot speed is badly implemented, it should still have auto-cast but also be activated manually so that zealots can retreat or just sprint without actually attacking something in the process. btw I hate zealots im a terran player ... but this should add some must needed complexity to statecraft 2
I actually just messed around with this, theres actually a pretty cool thing you can do thats sort of related.
If you select all your zealots, tell them to "C" charge the one in the lead and then "A" attack off in the distance before they reach the zealot they're charging, even if you don't have a target, they'll all rush that direction for about 15 units. Pretty cool stuff.
Hope this doesn't get removed. Fazing was cool, but it was also broken--once you could do it, Void Rays wrecked everything. But this is perfectly reasonable--a bump in efficiency, in exchange for taxing micro, but not at all broken.
It seems like a creative player would need to toy around with this to get some usage out of it.
I could see this being used to help set up a quick flank. If an army is approaching and you have some of your Zealots out of position, (on the side instead of the back) you can do the Charging trick to catch up with a properly positioned flanking Zealot. If I would see this in a high level game, I would be so happy.
I don't like how you name everything (only two that I know of, but still ) after yourself, but I suppose you have to right to do so because these tricks are pretty cool--and actually useful--indeed!
You should stick with toss; zerg is blurghish in my humble opinion.
On August 09 2010 03:55 Flameberger wrote: Hmmm... I wonder how hard it would be to make a bunch of zealots charge around in a circle endlessly... would most likely need to use triggers.
Wouldn't work, the circle would get smaller and smaller, and then they would all clump together in the middle and whack eachother. Sick idea tho. That puts a hilarious image in my mind.
On August 09 2010 03:55 Flameberger wrote: Hmmm... I wonder how hard it would be to make a bunch of zealots charge around in a circle endlessly... would most likely need to use triggers.
Wouldn't work, the circle would get smaller and smaller, and then they would all clump together in the middle and whack eachother. Sick idea tho. That puts a hilarious image in my mind.
You could make them charge around a clump of buildings or some impassable terrain.
Nice, the only trick I've really used for them is retreating with their charge but I'm a try this. If we can find more tricks like these, then hopefully the skill cap of this game can increase and there'll be better diversity in terms of skills just like Korean SC1. It's a little step but it is progress.
On August 09 2010 03:55 Flameberger wrote: Hmmm... I wonder how hard it would be to make a bunch of zealots charge around in a circle endlessly... would most likely need to use triggers.
Wouldn't work, the circle would get smaller and smaller, and then they would all clump together in the middle and whack eachother. Sick idea tho. That puts a hilarious image in my mind.
You could make them charge around a clump of buildings or some impassable terrain.
Yeah, that probably would work. I'm going to go try that right now.
I can see a major problem with this being that it uses up your charge, so you have a disadvantage in a battle until it cools down, if you get ambushed or something.
Still, if you were to do it just for more mobility , it could add up. For people who have the APM and concentration for it, I can definitely see it as almost a must. Every second your charge isn't being used while your zealots are moving is making them slower than they can potentially be. It's pretty interesting, though incredibly impractical for lower level players like myself.
Also, would holding shift and hitting S before they attack cause them to not attack?
He's not really the one FINDING these tricks, he's the one making posts about them. This trick happens to be almost completely useless- very impractical and difficult.
I do think there is potential for exploit with hacks though. It might be potentially possible to order zealots to charge non-existing moving units to get them to charge when there is nothing around. Depends how the communication works for the game though, I'd say it's less than likely.
On August 09 2010 12:53 Xapti wrote: He's not really the one FINDING these tricks, he's the one making posts about them.
True that! I only make posts about ones I haven't seen before though.
This trick happens to be almost completely useless- very impractical and difficult.
I guess that remains to be seen, a 15 yard charge sounds pretty useful to me.
I do think there is potential for exploit with hacks though. It might be potentially possible to order zealots to charge non-existing moving units to get them to charge when there is nothing around. Depends how the communication works for the game though, I'd say it's less than likely.
The second a packet comes back corrupted, it's all over. You can't "add" units to the server.
On August 09 2010 12:53 Xapti wrote: This trick happens to be almost completely useless- very impractical and difficult.
Sorry, everyone leave the thread, this trick is pretty much useless and difficult to do. Nothing to ----
Wait, you can charge into the enemy forces from farther than they can see, and then I dunno maybe blink your stalkers in so that you're pretty damn quickly in the fray, instead of being shelled by tanks/colossi or surrounded, with some quick micro and good timing.
On August 09 2010 12:53 Xapti wrote: This trick happens to be almost completely useless- very impractical and difficult.
Sorry, everyone leave the thread, this trick is pretty much useless and difficult to do. Nothing to ----
Wait, you can charge into the enemy forces from farther than they can see, and then I dunno maybe blink your stalkers in so that you're pretty damn quickly in the fray, instead of being shelled by tanks/colossi or surrounded, with some quick micro and good timing.
SOUNDS AWFUL!
I would like to see someone try charging a stalker, and have the stalker blink up a ledge. Maybe on desert oasis? Quick way to get chargelots into the mineral line?
i'm too lazy go and check it myself, but can you charge buildings, like mengsk's statues for example? and if you can, can you charge them from what would be an impossible attacking distance (i.e. wouldn't get there in 5 seconds) if you charge manually? if so, well chargelots are now WoW rogues. with well-positioned pylons you could make some nice micro if you're baller enough.
On August 09 2010 13:07 muffley wrote: Wait, you can charge into the enemy forces from farther than they can see .... SOUNDS AWFUL!
You've completely misunderstood the trick. This trick does not increase zealot charge range at all. All you can do is charge other units that are already moving. The only way this might be useful is if it's used with blinked stalker as the charged unit, which I did not know worked until just now (watching a video posted)
Nonetheless, it's suiciding a stalker, and has a limited range of 8 (blink's range). In practical use though, blinking a stalker 8 units into the enemy will likely instantly kill the stalker, at which point the charge will stop. Considering the time it takes for the stalker to die, the zealots might have charged 1-2 extra squares, while you just used up their charge early, as well as pretty much sacrificed a stalker. So even with stalker exploit, it would still not be very useful, if useful at all.
On August 09 2010 13:52 Zorkit wrote: i lol'd. its gonna replace the scv dance around command centers.
No. Even with triggers (humanly impossible) and perfect unit positioning (again almost certainly impossible), I didn't manage to get them to loop charging for more than 3 charges before they messed up.
On August 09 2010 08:16 Field wrote: I actually just messed around with this, theres actually a pretty cool thing you can do thats sort of related.
If you select all your zealots, tell them to "C" charge the one in the lead and then "A" attack off in the distance before they reach the zealot they're charging, even if you don't have a target, they'll all rush that direction for about 15 units. Pretty cool stuff.
THIS THIS is the trick that is useful. Good job clarifying things man. more than double movement speed zealots for quite a long range in any direction, without having to be units there. it only works with attack-move and attack though, so you can't retreat to where no units are (very unlikely circumstance)
On August 09 2010 08:16 Field wrote: I actually just messed around with this, theres actually a pretty cool thing you can do thats sort of related.
If you select all your zealots, tell them to "C" charge the one in the lead and then "A" attack off in the distance before they reach the zealot they're charging, even if you don't have a target, they'll all rush that direction for about 15 units. Pretty cool stuff.
THIS THIS is the trick that is useful. Good job clarifying things man. more than double movement speed zealots for quite a long range in any direction, without having to be units there.
That is useful! I'm going to try that right now. And to think I was going to stop playing starcraft for today -.-
This might be an awesome ramp breaker trick. If someone leaves a small gap in their ramp, you can charge a stalker then blink it into the back of their base. Dunno if this would cause the charge to stop, but if it didn't, the lots might re-route and turbocharge their way through all the defences...
On August 09 2010 08:16 Field wrote: I actually just messed around with this, theres actually a pretty cool thing you can do thats sort of related.
If you select all your zealots, tell them to "C" charge the one in the lead and then "A" attack off in the distance before they reach the zealot they're charging, even if you don't have a target, they'll all rush that direction for about 15 units. Pretty cool stuff.
Awesome. Unfortunately this use of it sounds like something blizzard would fix. Would be awesome for something like charging into tanks.
Another easy use of this could be in team games - zealots using charge to piggy back onto a speedling run by.
On August 09 2010 12:53 Xapti wrote: He's not really the one FINDING these tricks, he's the one making posts about them.
True that! I only make posts about ones I haven't seen before though.
Hm your posts really make it sound like you're the one that discovered these tricks.
Nice find, I dont see how it can be useful at all for attacks - you cant for example blink a stalker into an enemy army and not expect it to die before the chargelot gets there. But I guess it might be useful for running away.
On August 09 2010 08:16 Field wrote: I actually just messed around with this, theres actually a pretty cool thing you can do thats sort of related.
If you select all your zealots, tell them to "C" charge the one in the lead and then "A" attack off in the distance before they reach the zealot they're charging, even if you don't have a target, they'll all rush that direction for about 15 units. Pretty cool stuff.
THIS THIS is the trick that is useful. Good job clarifying things man. more than double movement speed zealots for quite a long range in any direction, without having to be units there. it only works with attack-move and attack though, so you can't retreat to where no units are (very unlikely circumstance)
Everyone really needs to see this. Probably the most important development to come with this trick.
Here's a video demonstrating:
You can use charge to run across a set distance, closely mimicking the speed of Speedlots in BW.
You can use charge to run across a set distance, closely mimicking the speed of Speedlots in BW.
This is awesome, and potentially really useful. Especially with the Zealot nerf, this could keep certain kinds of Zealot rushes viable. And, unlike Void Ray Fazing, it doesn't make the unit broken powerful.
I love how all these micro tricks are slowly being discovered. Magic boxing Mutas, for instance.
You can use charge to run across a set distance, closely mimicking the speed of Speedlots in BW.
This is awesome, and potentially really useful. Especially with the Zealot nerf, this could keep certain kinds of Zealot rushes viable. And, unlike Void Ray Fazing, it doesn't make the unit broken powerful.
I love how all these micro tricks are slowly being discovered. Magic boxing Mutas, for instance.
Better yet, since Siege Tank damage is being nerfed versus Zealots, they will even be more effective versus breaking tank lines.
ah thats great, thx for video tump. Zealots finally gonna own Tanks, like they're supposed to Makes me happy unless this means that every T will just go pure MMM
I doubt people will start calling it Fazelots, since the word is hard to say and confusing. Also, it can't easily be used in a verb form. I'd suggest you switching the name to something else, before someone like day9 coins a different term for it. Why not just call it zealot fazing. Does void ray fazing still work?
EPT
. After doing so, I noticed something interesting about the Zealot charge attack in a ladder game. Zealots 
